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A teacher who allegedly invited teenage boys to his home to perform household chores in various stages of undress will face trial on seven counts of corruption of minors and one count each of criminal solicitation and tampering with or fabricating physical evidence.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051027/D8DGLFLO0.html

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Chickee Daizy
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quote:
"What did he do? Ask them to take their shirts off? Where's the crime in that?" Neff said.
Well, I can tell you what the crime in that would have been had the students been girls. Why should it be any different with boy students?

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Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Spooky Daizy:
Well, I can tell you what the crime in that would have been had the students been girls. Why should it be any different with boy students?

Because in this society it is acceptable for males to go shirtless and it isn't considered nudity or indecent exposure?

ETA: Now that I've read the article I see that there was allegedly more to it than that. My comment was based on the idea of them being just shirtless.

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snopes
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quote:
Well, I can tell you what the crime in that would have been had the students been girls. Why should it be any different with boy students?
Because boys and girls are different.

It would probably be a crime if an adult male teacher used the girls' restroom to urinate during recess (i.e., while female students were present). Should it therefore be considered a comparable "crime" for an adult male teacher to use the boys' restroom?

- snopes

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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
It would probably be a crime if an adult male teacher used the girls' restroom to urinate during recess
- snopes [/QB]

I don't know about 'probably' but I guess it's a good question. What law would have been violated there? The area where any genitalia is exposed is enclosed and normally locked. In the event of simply using a stall in the girls restroom- what would be the crime? Not saying I would condone it, just wondering if it's a chargeable offense?
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TuFurg
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenn:
quote:
Originally posted by Spooky Daizy:
Well, I can tell you what the crime in that would have been had the students been girls. Why should it be any different with boy students?

Because in this society it is acceptable for males to go shirtless and it isn't considered nudity or indecent exposure?

ETA: Now that I've read the article I see that there was allegedly more to it than that. My comment was based on the idea of them being just shirtless.

Are thongs considered indecent when worn on private property? I know there are issues with said exposure in public, but are thongs illegal for minors to wear otherwise?

Don't get me wrong, the guy has issues for having a need to stare at a teen's bare ass, but just wondering what punishment (if any) he'll get.

Thank God these idiots are stupid enough to get busted. Isn't there be plenty of this stuff available online so that he wouldn't have to advertise for it- at his school no less? [Confused]

ETA: Ok, I see that he didn't post the "work shirtless offers" at the school, but at his home where the boys could see the "bonus offer" after they got there. One kid did wear spandex, but took if off because it made him uncomfortable- yet he returned to work at the house more than once after that. [Confused]

And also he supposedly solicited for nude photos, so yeah- that's a no-no.

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Jenn
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quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
Are thongs considered indecent when worn on private property? I know there are issues with said exposure in public, but are thongs illegal for minors to wear otherwise?

Illegal? No. To the best of my knowledge, there are no laws in North America regulating what type of underwear anyone of any age can wear (and rightly so). A minor can wear bloomers, briefs, thongs, or no underwear at all. Underwear isn't compulsory.

The issue here isn't so much exactly what the young men were enticed to wear (there's nothing legally indecent about a boy going shirtless or anyone wearing a swimsuit, for example), but that they were being enticed to wear less or different clothing than they usually would wear, presumably for some form of sexual gratification for the teacher. That presumed intent is the key part of the issue. There's nothing illegally indecent about a French maid outfit, either (indeed, they're popular Halloween costumes), but I expect that the resulting outrage would be the similar if this teacher had been offering more money to teenage girls to clean his house wearing one.

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Chickee Daizy
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I understand that boys are different than girls. I said why should it be different, if the man in question really did want to them to take off their clothes for his sick pleasure?

So it makes more sense, I just think that he should be in trouble whether he wanted girls to take off their blouses or boys to take off their shirts for "tips." Either way, to me it sounds like he is a pervert, and he should be punished (if the alleged charges are in fact true.)

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snopes
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quote:
I understand that boys are different than girls. I said why should it be different, if the man in question really did want to them to take off their clothes for his sick pleasure?
Because looking at shirtless boys isn't an overtly illegal act, or even necessarily an inappropriate one (in the sense that our society considers male shirtlessness acceptable).

Many men find cheerleader outfits sexually titillating. Should a male teacher who asks one of his female students to don her cheerleading uniform therefore be charged with a crime, even if he doesn't touch her or commit any sexually inappropriate act?

- snopes

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Chimera
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While I do think the teacher was a bit of a perve I also think society has gone too far.

Please note that I don't think it is normal for any adult to intentionally desire to look at semi dressed children.

I just think we (as a society) fear things in all the wrong places. I just came from a boyscout (parent/son) outing with my kid. I can't even remember half the rules but there was something about bathroom supervision rules. I think two adults were to be present (but I don't recal the specific "rules"). But hell, I used to change my boy's diapers and I've seen all his bits and he's seen all mine. Therefore I didn't look for a third party to oversee our bathroom habits. I'd knock on the outhouse like structure and shout "A-O!" (which in my world means "hello, is there anyone in there?"). The one time I saw a slightly older boy enter right before us, I sent my son in on his own (I think that was a no-no) while I waited outside. The rest of the time my boy and I entered on our own to do our business (there was a urinal and two toilets all seperated by doorless walls so it was semi-private). I'll post the information if I can find it but I know we were breaking some kind of rule. If I recall correctly adults were suposed to be supervised, even around their own children. Idiots! Even if someone wanted to do something nasty to their own kid I seriously doubt very many would do it at a crowded camp site. Sorry to go a bit off topic but I was amazed that there were such rules. Although I would've gladly tried to take a crap in front of another parent if for nothing more than the pure unadulterated hell of it. I'll have to try to find the offical rules to get everything correct (I basically just looked them over, laughed, and used my own best judgement) but the fact that any rules at all about it blows my mind.

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What is the use of women?"
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Chickee Daizy
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Many men find cheerleader outfits sexually titillating. Should a male teacher who asks one of his female students to don her cheerleading uniform therefore be charged with a crime, even if he doesn't touch her or commit any sexually inappropriate act?

snopes, I hate having to disagree with the creator of such a wonderful site, but...

IMHO, yes, a male teacher who asks a female student to come to his house and tells her he will pay her extra to clean in her cheerleading uniform should be charged with a crime.

Either way, a man who is supposed to be a mentor to children is paying them money so he can look at their semi-naked bodies. IMO that is a crime, and he is taking advantage of impressionable students.

YMMV

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Some people are like slinkies...They don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

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BeachLife
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I'd say any teacher asking students to clean their house and specifying clothes for bonus money has an issue. I don't think that it's a appropriate for anyone to use his job as a teacher to get access to young people for his own titilation. I would also say that any teacher lacking that boundary should not be teaching.

Beach...if it was my kid, I show up in her place, dressed appropriately carrying a baseball bat...Life!

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Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
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SkyeTisTheSeasonWynters
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
I understand that boys are different than girls. I said why should it be different, if the man in question really did want to them to take off their clothes for his sick pleasure?
Because looking at shirtless boys isn't an overtly illegal act, or even necessarily an inappropriate one (in the sense that our society considers male shirtlessness acceptable).

Many men find cheerleader outfits sexually titillating. Should a male teacher who asks one of his female students to don her cheerleading uniform therefore be charged with a crime, even if he doesn't touch her or commit any sexually inappropriate act?

- snopes

Just to clarify on Snopes point: STRAIGHT men find them "sexually titillating" - teh gay (like me, FABULOUS!) just want to wear them. That and Cher wigs.

This gives me so much to ponder tonight.

[lol]

SW

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Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Spooky Daizy:
IMHO, yes, a male teacher who asks a female student to come to his house and tells her he will pay her extra to clean in her cheerleading uniform should be charged with a crime.

Which crime, exactly?

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Chickee Daizy
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Any crime that will keep them away from kids. I'm not a law expert, so I don't really know which crime to charge them with. Maybe something to do with solicitation of a minor?

I'm just saying that as a parent myself, people who get off on kids scare me, and if there isn't a law to keep them from getting minors half naked so they can drool over them, then there should be.

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Some people are like slinkies...They don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

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TuFurg
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quote:
Originally posted by Chickee Daisy:
Any crime that will keep them away from kids. I'm not a law expert, so I don't really know which crime to charge them with. Maybe something to do with solicitation of a minor?

ETA: Sorry, but I read that wrong...are you suggesting that although a person like that didn't commit a crime we should charge him with something anyway?
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Tizzie
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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Many men find cheerleader outfits sexually titillating. Should a male teacher who asks one of his female students to don her cheerleading uniform therefore be charged with a crime, even if he doesn't touch her or commit any sexually inappropriate act?

If the male teacher in your scenario has a legitimate reason to be asking the girls to don their cheerleading uniforms(ie he's their cheerleading coach), him finding them sexually exciting, may be creepy, but not illegal in any way. If they aren't touching, asking the girls to do anything inappropriate to him, themselves or each other then you're right. Not someone I'd really want around my daughter if I heard about it, but he's not doing anything "wrong".

If however this same male teacher is asking the female students to come over to his house and perform chores in their cheerleading outfits (could you bend over a little more Stacy, I think you missed a spot) for his sexual pleasure then it may fall under corrupting a minor or some form of solicitaion; even if he's only getting them to do it for something less tangible then money; like an A in his class or a pass to get out of other classes.

I know if my son were in this situation I wouldn't be writing it off as,well you can see him shirtless anytime because he's a boy. I'd be seriously pissed off because the charges and story imply that he was asking the boys to do this for his sexual pleasure/excitement. If the charges and the implications are true then the teacher should not be in his position and should be punished with jail time along with not allowing him to work with children again. JMO though.

Tizzie

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The Memorial Storm
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quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by Chickee Daisy:
Any crime that will keep them away from kids. I'm not a law expert, so I don't really know which crime to charge them with. Maybe something to do with solicitation of a minor?

ETA: Sorry, but I read that wrong...are you suggesting that although a person like that didn't commit a crime we should charge him with something anyway?
TuFurg, I don't think that is what Chicken Daisy meant and I think that you know (or should have known) that as well. So why stretch it to the absurd? Just to get a rise or be devil's advocate?

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Chickee Daizy
Live and Let Madai


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quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by Chickee Daisy:
Any crime that will keep them away from kids. I'm not a law expert, so I don't really know which crime to charge them with. Maybe something to do with solicitation of a minor?

ETA: Sorry, but I read that wrong...are you suggesting that although a person like that didn't commit a crime we should charge him with something anyway?
Like I said, I'm not in law enforcement, so I don't know if there is actually a law on the books about offering money to minors to get half naked, then ogling them for pleasure (I assume there probably is though).

What I meant is, if he can be charged with a legitimate crime, then he should be, because IMO what he did was wrong--and I bet the parents of the boys he had come to his home probably feel the same way.

--------------------
Some people are like slinkies...They don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Chickee Daisy:
quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by Chickee Daisy:
Any crime that will keep them away from kids. I'm not a law expert, so I don't really know which crime to charge them with. Maybe something to do with solicitation of a minor?

ETA: Sorry, but I read that wrong...are you suggesting that although a person like that didn't commit a crime we should charge him with something anyway?
Like I said, I'm not in law enforcement, so I don't know if there is actually a law on the books about offering money to minors to get half naked, then ogling them for pleasure (I assume there probably is though).

What I meant is, if he can be charged with a legitimate crime, then he should be, because IMO what he did was wrong--and I bet the parents of the boys he had come to his home probably feel the same way.

Chickee- I understand where you're coming from, and I think you (and others) might not realize that I was addressing your comment about a hypothetical guy wanting girls to dress as cheerleaders. I was not addressing the individual in the OP. Anyone who cares may retrace my posts and see that.

IMO the teacher in the OP did commit a crime in soliciting for nude pics and should be charged. And while it might sound like a good idea to make the cheerleader scenario an actionable offense too, I can't say that it is and it's doubtful it will be unless one's 'naughty cheereleader' thoughts can be used as evidence of a crime. The same might also be said of 'naughty young guys in thongs' thoughts too.

And Storm... [Roll Eyes]

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