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Author Topic: Mystery Fish
U.T. Raptor
Jingle Bell Hock


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http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/
Pictures in the link

Anyone have a clue what that thing is? Cryptomundo's completely stumped about it (and has been for quite a while, as you can see from the 5 previous topics linked in the article), and I figured it couldn't hurt to see what you guys think of it...

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James of Maine
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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It looks like some kind of large constricting snake that was killed shortly after swallowing a large animal. It also looks like it has some kind of bag or pillowcase over its head, on which a mouth and eye have been painted (or, actually more likely in my mind, someone altered the photo to add those features).
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Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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To me, it looks like a Fox with Mange...

hehehe ok, do it.. but be gentle...please..

Anyway, I don't think it is so much a fish as maybe what's left of a fish. It certainly appears to be some "south sea" type place (or at least a very beachy type place), don't know if it is Florida (doubtful though); but I think maybe we are seeing the remenants of what is left of a deep sea type fish washed up.

Upon first glance, it looks like a giant snake..I mean the head does anyway.. but I can't find any pictures even resemebling this type of "fish". So I think it may be what's left of one.

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Assuming the photo has not been tampered with, either in a darkroom or computer lab:

Looks like a tiger shark that's missing its fins and had its mouth sliced laterally across its head. Basically a mutilated tiger shark. I don't know why someone would do that, but it's my best guess.

Judging from the clothing, this photo was taken in the 1940's (not 1904-1918 as the folks on that site claim). Salt marsh and cabbage palm trees in the background? Southeast US. South Carolina to North Florida. These men wouldn't have been dressed like that in a marsh environment at the turn of the century. I can't be certain what the fish is, but I'll even narrow the scenery down further and claim Southeast Georgia/Northeast Florida.

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Horse Chestnut
Happy Holly Days


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I agree that it is a mutilated shark, Cervus, but a tiger shark's snout looks a little too pointy for this critter. Also I'm not seeing any gill slits.

Giant catfish?

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Lady Moon Shadows
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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If you go back to the main link and follow the "paper" trail, they have somebody named Tom Deluca who is doing comparisons.. some have said a shark and he said it was a decomposed tarpon (as they are known to get that big)...

there are too many links, but follow them and you will see the whole discussion. I stand by my statement of a rotting, decomposing fish of some kind.

And a tiger shark's snout isn't pointy at all. Very rounded and blunt. There is one gill slit in the picture, but someone did say that it could also be a "blood trail" from the mouth.

Someone else did point out the giant catfish comparison as well.

Either way, it isn't a traditional cryptid, but some kind of very dead fish.

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Cervus
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quote:
Originally posted by Horse Chestnut:
Giant catfish?

Holy crap! (Or should I say Holy Carp!) I've never seen a catfish that big. That looks like it's in Florida as well, although your pic is labeled Chicago Fishing Links.

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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drummingman
Eagle Opportunity Employer


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That looks like an alligator gar or some other member of the gar pike family. The ocean in the background suggests brackish water (their habitat) is present nearby. The size and length are consistent with the average alligator gar.

The biggest mystery to me is what's on the head or what was done to it to make it cartoonish. It almost looks like it could be a 'clownin' around' photo where these guys took a paper mache cheesy snake head and stuck it on the catch of the day.

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Cervus
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drummingman, that's not the ocean in the background. It's a flat marsh, most likely salt marsh. Notice the alternating water and patches of marsh reeds. Gar could certainly live there, but I just wanted to point out it's not the ocean.

While alligator gar do get that big, their noses are much longer and narrower than the creature in the photo (hence the name "alligator"). This site has photos of large alligator gar that have recently been caught. The creature in the photo has a blunt nose and markings similar to a tiger shark.

Here's a 1910 photo of a 10-foot alligator gar from the archives of the American Museum of Natural History. I don't think the head of the creature in the OP photo is narrow or long enough for it to be an alligator gar, although the body certainly could be that of one.

Alligator gar with mutant deformed head? [Razz]

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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drummingman
Eagle Opportunity Employer


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Here's my take on it and I posted this on the crypto site. It's just my observations....


This looks like a gar pike or sturgeon with a painted pillowcase or sandbag over its head.

The nose is obviously unnatural and looks like a pillowcase or sack does when the fabric is not sufficiently taut.

The lack of gills on the fish suggests the fabric is tucked into them. There is an obvious change in texture between the body and the head where the gills should be.

Wrinkles can be seen in the alleged fabric under and above the poorly painted-on smile.

The shape and structure of the head are highly inconsistent with the body, again the change occurring between the body and the head where the gills should be. The head appears to be a fabric bag stuffed with leaves or some trash from the pictured garbage cans. You can see clumps of stuff all throughout the head, under the “skin”.

The position of the fish on the board and the head appearing just in front of the edge of the building may not be incidental. The man by the creature’s head whose feet cannot be seen may be stepping on the material to make it appear tight and visually consistent for the photograph.

The nature of the photo and the stances and appearance of the men are not consistent with most poses for prize catches.

Let’s face it. These guys look like a bunch of jokers. They share what appears to be general issue apparel and appear to be next to a garbage shed. Two clowns on KP duty and the sarge - or whoever they are - probably made a much-less-than-serious hoax photo. The man in the middle and on the left side of the photo appear to be comically non-chalant, in accordance with the notably silly smiling appearance of the head.

When the photo came out it probably looked good enough to fool drunks at bars and win some free drinks for themselves; probably why it’s still around.

This appears to be an obvious hoax and not even a particularly great one. Rather a quick & clever one by some regular practical jokers.

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Ovalescent
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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http://www.watersheds.org/nature/gallery2/images/mudpuppy.jpg

looks like a mudpuppy to me.

IMHO, this is an imitation of those humorous fake postcards where they paste in parts of another photograph to give the impression of a huge duck, potato, grasshopper, or in this case salamander.

Even if it's not a mudpuppy, I'm voting for a much smaller critter made to look large.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Yes, mudpuppy or maybe giant salamander.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_salamander
(Looks 'xactly like a giant salamander to me but I've never seen a mudpuppy.)

Ovalescent, you may want to check your link. It doesn't work for me.

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DaGuyWitBluGlasses
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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http://www.watersheds.org/nature/gallery2/pages/mudpuppy.htm

Linking to the page seems to work better than to the picture.

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charlie23
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Judging from the clothing, this photo was taken in the 1940's (not 1904-1918 as the folks on that site claim).
The age of the postcard was established using the AZO (Kodak paper) and triangle symbols around the stamp area. http://www.the2buds.com/rp.htm
Several other readily available sites confirm this.

 -

AZO 1926-1940s
Squares in corners

AZO 1904-1918
4 triangles pointed up

AZO 1918-1930
Triangles 2 up, 2 down

AZO 1907-1909
DIAMONDS in corners

AZO 1922-1926
Empty Corners

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I can't understand the comments about the clothes or the men's expressions. They don't look like jokers to me. They look very normal and with fairly normal expressions.

As for the clothes, if they're cotton t's, they could be as early as 1918, or possibly earlier. The cotton t-shirt has been said to have come to the US via WWI soldiers but it's not really true. The US Navy adopted t-shirts to be worn under the uniform in 1913. (Actually, they look like sailors or Marines on leave to me but now, perhaps I'm the one reading too much into their faces and clothes.) It is true that they were more visible by the 40's but it's not so unlikely that a bunch of guys out fishing would have felt the need to wear shirts. So I can accept the postcard dating.

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TuFurg
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
Yes, mudpuppy or maybe giant salamander.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_salamander
(Looks 'xactly like a giant salamander to me but I've never seen a mudpuppy.)

Ovalescent, you may want to check your link. It doesn't work for me.

Curious as to why you think a mudpuppy is a possibility if you've never seen one? Perhaps you meant you've never seen one in person?

Have to agree about the giant salamander, the absence of legs is interesting though- and no sign of them being removed (although I guess if it was in the water they could be missing due to decomposition?) The markings don't look like anything I came across either.

ETA: On second look that wound under the 'smile' could definately be where the front leg was IMO.

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charlie23
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Personally, I'm still in the "mutilated shark" corner.
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charlie23
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Curious as to why you think a mudpuppy is a possibility if you've never seen one? Perhaps you meant you've never seen one in person?
My thoughts as well, used to sell them as bait ( we called them "hellbenders" ) for serious catfish snaggers. The "face" has a resemblance, but I'm still in with the "mutilated shark" school.

sorry for double post, this site isn't firefox friendly...

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Spam & Cookies-mmm
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quote:
These men wouldn't have been dressed like that in a marsh environment at the turn of the century.
I'm not sure I'm following your line of logic here. They appear to be dressed in military issue clothes: matching belts, pants, and similar t-shirts. If you belong to the gubmint, you wear what they give you, no matter where you are.

There are also no clues in the photo as to time of year. It certainly gets cold enough in the southeastern US, even along the coastlines, to require long pants.

I'm also unsure as to why you're limiting their location to "marsh" based on this picture. Yes, there is some marshy looking stuff in the background, but the foreground is sand. I can name numerous places around my area where there is an island or other narrow spit of land with saltmarsh on one side and bay or Gulf on the other. It's the nature of the coastline.

quote:
Originally posted by Cervus nippon:
quote:
Originally posted by Horse Chestnut:
Giant catfish?

Holy crap! (Or should I say Holy Carp!) I've never seen a catfish that big. That looks like it's in Florida as well, although your pic is labeled Chicago Fishing Links.
Everything looks like Florida to me too, Cervus. [Smile] Don't you just love this land?

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by TuFurg:
quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
Yes, mudpuppy or maybe giant salamander.

Curious as to why you think a mudpuppy is a possibility if you've never seen one? Perhaps you meant you've never seen one in person?

Yeah, that's what I meant. I have, however, seen a giant salamander. (Not in the wild.)
quote:

The markings don't look like anything I came across either.

Giant Salamanders (and mudpuppies, too?) have all kinds of different markings and it's hard to tell the exact contrast from the photo so I thought this was hard to say one way or the other. (Some Chinese giant salamanders seem to have similar markings, though.)
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Barns & No Bull
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Giant Salamander? You guys are funny!

It superficially looks like a shark, but the body shape is all wrong. Nearly all pelagic sharks have bodies like tapering cylinders. This thing is laterally compressed. It doesn't have a big "pot belly" like a shark this size should either. Those features don't vanish with this amount of decomposition.

The head is nearly useless here for identification. That's a shame, because it should help a lot with ID. As it is, the head is misleading. I wouldn't rule out intentional modification of the carcass by these guys or others. I don't think the negative or print was altered.

There is no reason whatsoever to think this is some "new" species. It's some kind of known fish that cannot be conclusively identified from this photograph. It is sharkish and tarponish, but doesn't fit either perfectly. Oh well.

BTW, that whopper posted by Horse Chestnut is a Mekong Giant Catfish from Thailand.

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Barns & No Bull:
Giant Salamander? You guys are funny!

It superficially looks like a shark, but the body shape is all wrong. Nearly all pelagic sharks have bodies like tapering cylinders. This thing is laterally compressed. It doesn't have a big "pot belly" like a shark this size should either. Those features don't vanish with this amount of decomposition.


The body or head could be twisted giving it the appearance of lateralcompression.
quote:

The head is nearly useless here for identification. That's a shame, because it should help a lot with ID. As it is, the head is misleading. I wouldn't rule out intentional modification of the carcass by these guys or others. I don't think the negative or print was altered.

There is no reason whatsoever to think this is some "new" species. It's some kind of known fish that cannot be conclusively identified from this photograph. It is sharkish and tarponish, but doesn't fit either perfectly. Oh well.

The carcass could be partially stripped of skin, giving it an odd shape. It would also explain the lack of fins.
Or it could be a shark's head on another creature's body.

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Barns & No Bull
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
The body or head could be twisted giving it the appearance of lateralcompression.

Twisted? Like how?

quote:
The carcass could be partially stripped of skin, giving it an odd shape. It would also explain the lack of fins.
The skin doesn't give this fish its shape. The skeleton and musculature creates the body shape. Strip the skin off of a fish and you have the same fish without skin.

quote:
Or it could be a shark's head on another creature's body.
I agree. But the head itself isn't convincingly that of a shark. It's only sharkish. I suppose the entire thing could be a fabrication.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I don't think it's a fabrication. Why would somebody make such a vague fabrication. "Look what we found!" Err.... what is it? I don't think so.

(I think Barns is right. It's a fish. I think that dark line on the snout is no mouth, just a mark.)

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Barns & No Bull:
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
The body or head could be twisted giving it the appearance of lateralcompression.

Twisted? Like how?

The body is at a different angle than the head. The body could be laying on its side and the head rotated to vertical.

ETA: Actually, now that I look closer, the stripe going down the side appears to show that the body is twisted near the tail so that the tail lays flat.
quote:

quote:
The carcass could be partially stripped of skin, giving it an odd shape. It would also explain the lack of fins.
The skin doesn't give this fish its shape. The skeleton and musculature creates the body shape. Strip the skin off of a fish and you have the same fish without skin.

If some of the fat and muscle on the body was also removed, it could make identification difficult.
quote:

quote:
Or it could be a shark's head on another creature's body.
I agree. But the head itself isn't convincingly that of a shark. It's only sharkish. I suppose the entire thing could be a fabrication.

Maybe it is a type of shark that we're not familliar with? Maybe another sea creature that has a head similar to a shark?

My guess is that the shape is either because of the position of the body relative to the head or it is one creature's head on another's body.

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Barns & No Bull
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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You can't really twist a cylinder (the shark body) and make it flat. The classic fish body (such as a tarpon) is taller than it is wide. This fish does not have a shark shape, though the head is sharkish. Where the back end starts to taper (approaching the actual tail) this fish is flat when laying down. A big shark (if this were) would have a caudal keel that has noticible width... but it doesn't. That feature won't go away if it is skinned. This fish does not appear to have missing muscle. The surface is even, smooth and continuous - not like it has been hacked or carved in any way.

If I use my hand to cover the head part of the photo, I think tarpon. If I cover the body, I think shark. I'm not even sure if the thing that looks like an eye is an eye, and I can't really find the gill cover (prominant in tarpon) or slits (prominant in sharks).

The photo is just not offering the ability to positively identify this animal. I think it's a Sharpon or a Tark.

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Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you!

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Ovalescent
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The more I look at this thing here and on cryptomundo, the more I think it's either a painted rock or a sculpture made out of papier mache or something similar.

Not sure why they'd include that ragged stumpy thing near the front, though.

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BrainDamage
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If you look at the second image, the one with just the head, and follow it to the end of the curve of the "mouth," just to the right, there appears to be a nail. Click on the image to see a larger version of it. It looks almost as though the "body" is flat and kept in a vertical position by nailing it to the shed behind it.
Now look at the first image, once again you can get a larger image by clicking on it. If you start to think of the body as flat, you can easilly follow it's shape from the edge of the head to the tail.
Now look at the "board" that the fish is laying on. Closer examionation shows that it is not a board after all, but a wooden pole. To me, it looks like the "body" is in reality a snake skin attached to a pole to be hung.
I bet these guys found a rock that resembled a snake's head and someone decided to put it alongside a snakeskin and paint a face on the rock in an attempt to make it look like a giant snake. But after developing the film, realised that it didn't resemble much of a snake but did look like an odd type of fish, and they came up with a story of catching some new species of fish.

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