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Author Topic: Alien baby?
Joe Joe Joey Junior Shabadoo
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Hijack- sorry

quote:
Originally posted by Missie:
[I hate thinking for other people

Nothing personal, but what exactly does this mean?

--------------------
I'm so broke; I can't even pay attention

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Keeper of the Mad Bunnies
Jingle Bell Hock


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Folks, in defense of Missie, there is a tendency to jump on the 'cite' wagon everytime someone states something here. Almost as bad as declaring a photo as 'shopped'. While I am as skeptical as the next person, I do not necessarily follow up on everything posted. If you feel that a reference is bogus, maybe give a reason why or do a preliminary search to see if the statement holds water.

A quick search in Google for 'middle east birth defect radiation' will give you plenty of information to review. There are claims made that the birth defect rate has increased (from 11 to 116 per 100,000) due to the use of depleted uranium shells in the first Gulf War.

This took less than one minute to determine. I make no claims as to the merit of the arguments as this is only a demonstration.

Now, I agree that if one is planning to make a specific argument, cites are necessary. But asking for every line of a post to be footnoted is a bit excessive!

James Powell

edited to close parens.

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Yes, well if it was so easy it wouldn't be hard for Missie to backup her point rather than getting all trollish about it.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Repairman Jack
I Saw Three Shipments


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On the other hand, every reference to the "uranium cause" of HI has been followed by the observation that there has been no definite link found to radiation and that the experts working on the issue doubt it is the cause - and that consanguinity has more to do with it,followed by a history of skin problems such as psiorasis(sp?)in the family.

And yes Missie, a cancer formed in response to radiation is still cancer, but it is not the SAME kind of cancer as those from other causes, i.e. carcinoma from smoking or UV exposure, or sarcomas deriving from HIV infections. Simply because radiation causes mutations does not mean all mutations are caused by radiation.

I believe that is the thrust of what people are saying here.

And btw, backing up what you say here may not be required, but go look at the IM A HUMAN BEING post on Rantidote and see just how foolish refusing to support one's statements can make you look. Poor O from Oz....

[fish] [fish] [fish] [Roll Eyes]


RJ

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Sansha
A Rolling Stone Gathers No Kate Moss


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the voice over is in Japanese. My Japanese is VERY rusty!

It begins by saying she is an "uwasa" child. Uwasa means rumor or gossip but could have some other meaning I don't know (or I may be mishearing). The baby is a girl and weighed 2500 at birth.
There is then a comment I can't understand followed by saying "as she drinks milk well...(again I don't understand) and finally something about what her parents do everyday.

Not much help sorry.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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"Uwasa no ko" just means "the child in question". As you said, she is a girl who weighed 2500 grams at birth. The next narration describes the appearance of the baby's skin over the whole body (I can't getthe exact words either like something larvae?? weird way to put it -- or my weird way of hearing it). The baby drinks a lot of milk so it's digestive system is in good condition but the mother is distracted by many people come to see the baby (such as obnoxious cameramen and their crew) so can't concentrate on taking care of her.(Something like that.)
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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thistles
[qb] I could not find anything on ericblumrich.com that pertained to "nukes," but that site appears to be mainly humor and political satire rather than legitimate journalism. On iambored.com I searched for "radiation flash" and got a dead link to something else.


Sorry you couldn't find the link I guess I was to vague. Go to www.ericblumrich.com then click on "Animations" (located in the colum on left side of home page) and click on the animation titled "your tax dollars at work" Hope you can find it. Didn't mean to start such a debate. I was just making an observation that the baby looked like some of the babies I saw that were exposed to radiation. So I then thought that maybe the radiation caused the Harlequin syndrome. I just found it to be in very bad taste to label this post as "alien baby" It is a serious condition and shouldn't be mocked

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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Billion:
I don't think that the quibbling over radiation and mutation is anything for anybody to get chafed about.

PallasAthena: Good point. I was thinking much the same thing.

On the contrary I believe radiation is definately something to get "chafed" about. Especially now that we have seen the after effects. And good ol' boy George W wants to start the production of "mini Nukes".
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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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GRRRRR can someone please tell me how to delete posts??? (sorry, I'm new)
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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Posts can't be deleted, sorry.

Also, the video looks Eastern Asian, not Middle Eastern. A small point, but an important one.

Here's a page with a HI baby and some other defects - the person writing it has honestly very little knowledge of what causes birth defects. THere are some interesting comments that a geneticist added.

http://www.firethistime.org/extremedeformities.htm

Sister "stop making sense" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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Miss Lucha
Lil Luchadore


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I read an article about two sisters who BOTH suffered from Harlequins. It was in the Australian Woman's Day I am pretty sure. Read it in the doctors surgury our of boredom.

They had lived to be 14 and 16 and lived in constant pain. They had to bathe for 2 hours each morning as their mother scraped and scrubbed off all the dead skin which would often make them cry, and then afterwards they would have to rub lotion all over their skin because it was so dry all the time.

They looked so red and the older sister had gone completely blind. The 14 year old was half blind. [Frown] I just thought it was so sad. I remember reading it and showing my boyfriend who was shocked at it also.

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by jenn schnarr:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thistles
[qb] I could not find anything on ericblumrich.com that pertained to "nukes," but that site appears to be mainly humor and political satire rather than legitimate journalism. On iambored.com I searched for "radiation flash" and got a dead link to something else.


Sorry you couldn't find the link I guess I was to vague. Go to www.ericblumrich.com then click on "Animations" (located in the colum on left side of home page) and click on the animation titled "your tax dollars at work" Hope you can find it. Didn't mean to start such a debate. I was just making an observation that the baby looked like some of the babies I saw that were exposed to radiation. So I then thought that maybe the radiation caused the Harlequin syndrome. I just found it to be in very bad taste to label this post as "alien baby" It is a serious condition and shouldn't be mocked

I still couldn't find it. If you have a chance could you copy and paste the url?

--------------------
Officially Heartless

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PallasAthena
Xboxing Day


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quote:
On the contrary I believe radiation is definately something to get "chafed" about. Especially now that we have seen the after effects. And good ol' boy George W wants to start the production of "mini Nukes".
I think that if there is no definite link between HI and radiation, the use of HI to aid in the protest of the proliferation of nuclear weapons take weight away from the arguments one might be trying to make.

Gah. That's a hell of a sentence. Couldn't figure out a less convoluted way to say that.

There are many valid reasons to protest nuclear proliferation IMHO. There is no reason to try to dig up what appears to be a shaky link to HI.

quote:
I just found it to be in very bad taste to label this post as "alien baby" It is a serious condition and shouldn't be mocked
I think the person who originally posted this was not aware that this was HI. IIRC (and it's been a couple of days since I read the start of the thread), the original poster was shocked and saddened to learn that the baby was in fact real and was not a movie prop.

For my own part, I was too. I saw the video and assumed immediately that it was some kind of animatronic doll. It is difficult to see a child suffering, and for my part, I really wanted to believe that it was impossible for a human child to suffer so terribly. How heartbreaking to know that there are children out there in such pain.

--------------------
"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about." --Ray Nagin

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nobodytil2013
Ron Mexico


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I completely agree with Keeper of the Mad Bunnies...I can't believe I just said "Keeper of the Mad Bunnies". The controversy surrounding depleted uranium munitions, whether the accusations are truth or merely fabrications, needs to be discussed openly. If the rumors are false--nothing is lost. But if cancer rates are skyrocketing because of American bullets, I for one want to know about it.
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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by nobodytil2013:
I completely agree with Keeper of the Mad Bunnies...I can't believe I just said "Keeper of the Mad Bunnies". The controversy surrounding depleted uranium munitions, whether the accusations are truth or merely fabrications, needs to be discussed openly. If the rumors are false--nothing is lost. But if cancer rates are skyrocketing because of American bullets, I for one want to know about it.

Cancer probably is one defect you can associate with depleted uranium. HI is not, and neither is any of the birth defects on the link above - they are all folic acid defects.

From what I have read, HI is simple and inherited. I suppose it is theoretically possible to have one gene mutate into an HI gene. But to get the disease, you need two copies of the gene. Not a mutation you would see.

I agree that we should discuss the issue of depleted uranium, and that there are valid health risks from it, but taking a bunch of babies that have non-related illnesses and putting them up on the web saying: "Depleted uranium caused this!!!!!!!!" is ridiculous. It just makes someone look uneducated. In the link above that I posted, I automatically will question what that guy says because he can't even label birth defects, even common ones. (And the case of spina bifida he posts isn't that severe. It looks horrific, but the lesion is a low one. Chances are better in those cases.)

Sister "do your homework, NFBSK it!" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by PallasAthena:
Is anyone else familiar with the idea of a "monstrous" birth in folk tales? As in the mother gives birth to something so horrible that the audience can't even imagine what it was like.

A bit of a reach back, but it is an interesting point. Often, the women said to bear these children were accused of witchcraft, violating gender roles, or, simply, seeing an animal or frightning apparation at or near birth (hare lip = seeing a rabbit near birth).


An example from history is the child midwifed by Anne Hutchinson. Gov. John Winthrop described it as follows: "It was a woman child, stillborn, about two months before the just time, having life a few hours before; it came hiplings [breach birth] till she turned it; it was of ordinary bigness; it had a face, but no head, and the ears stood upon the shoulders and were like an ape's; it had no forehead, but over the eyes four horns, hard and sharp, two of them were above one inch long, the other two shorter; the eyes standing out, and the mouth also; the nose hooked upward all over the breast and back, full of sharp pricks and scales, like a thornback; the navel and all the belly, with the distinction of the sex, were where the back should be; and the back and hips before, where the belly should have been; behind, between the shoulders, it had two mouths, and in each of them a piece of red flesh sticking out; it had arms and legs as other children; but, instead of toes, it had on each foot three claws, like a young fowl, with sharp talons."

A couple of quick links. I have MUCH better sources in my collection at home, but none here.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nwa/dyer.html or http://www.eiu.edu/~historia/2001/maidens.htm.


Anyway, note the prevalence of animalistic metaphors in the (admittidly overblown description) description, as well as the insistance on switched charechteristics (back to front, front to back), and the presence of orifaces where none should be. Animal-human, back-front, violation of body boundries, overt presence of organs of consumption... All charechteristic descriptions of the grotesque, and the grotesque is inherently a threat to the dichotamious nature of traditional belief systems.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by PallasAthena:
Is anyone else familiar with the idea of a "monstrous" birth in folk tales?

I appreciate you were talking about older tales, but your post put me in mind of a quite recent example - the 1980s BBC TV series "Threads" which pictured Britain under massive nuclear attack and followed the "lives" of a generation struggling to survive afterwards.

The final scene was of the daughter of the family giving birth, ending with a shot of her horrified reaction as a midwife handed her her blanket-covered baby. Freeze frame - the story ends - the audience never sees the baby.

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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by PallasAthena:
Is anyone else familiar with the idea of a "monstrous" birth in folk tales? As in the mother gives birth to something so horrible that the audience can't even imagine what it was like.

A bit of a reach back, but it is an interesting point. Often, the women said to bear these children were accused of witchcraft, violating gender roles, or, simply, seeing an animal or frightning apparation at or near birth (hare lip = seeing a rabbit near birth).

When exactly did you become an expert on uranium and birth defects? You should do a little thing called research as "keeper of the mad bunnies" odviously did before you have the audasity to say that someone sounds uneducated because they speculate that there is a link between uranium & birth defects. As he said, a simple search of middle eastern birth defects and uranium prove some quite damming evidence that there is a link. And how exactly do you know that the baby pics are not suffering from a uranium related mutation or disease??? Did you take them personally??? If anything makes someone seem uneducated, it's ignorance Sister Ray.


An example from history is the child midwifed by Anne Hutchinson. Gov. John Winthrop described it as follows: "It was a woman child, stillborn, about two months before the just time, having life a few hours before; it came hiplings [breach birth] till she turned it; it was of ordinary bigness; it had a face, but no head, and the ears stood upon the shoulders and were like an ape's; it had no forehead, but over the eyes four horns, hard and sharp, two of them were above one inch long, the other two shorter; the eyes standing out, and the mouth also; the nose hooked upward all over the breast and back, full of sharp pricks and scales, like a thornback; the navel and all the belly, with the distinction of the sex, were where the back should be; and the back and hips before, where the belly should have been; behind, between the shoulders, it had two mouths, and in each of them a piece of red flesh sticking out; it had arms and legs as other children; but, instead of toes, it had on each foot three claws, like a young fowl, with sharp talons."

A couple of quick links. I have MUCH better sources in my collection at home, but none here.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nwa/dyer.html or http://www.eiu.edu/~historia/2001/maidens.htm.


Anyway, note the prevalence of animalistic metaphors in the (admittidly overblown description) description, as well as the insistance on switched charechteristics (back to front, front to back), and the presence of orifaces where none should be. Animal-human, back-front, violation of body boundries, overt presence of organs of consumption... All charechteristic descriptions of the grotesque, and the grotesque is inherently a threat to the dichotamious nature of traditional belief systems.


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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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WTF!!! I don't know how the above post got so messed up! that was't the quote I wanted at All!! lol
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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by jenn schnarr:

When exactly did you become an expert on uranium and birth defects? You should do a little thing called research as "keeper of the mad bunnies" odviously did before you have the audasity to say that someone sounds uneducated because they speculate that there is a link between uranium & birth defects. As he said, a simple search of middle eastern birth defects and uranium prove some quite damming evidence that there is a link. And how exactly do you know that the baby pics are not suffering from a uranium related mutation or disease??? Did you take them personally??? If anything makes someone seem uneducated, it's ignorance Sister Ray.


If you have damning evidence, I'd like to see it. I saw HI, and that is autosomal recessive. You are making the extrordinary claim - back it up. Don't just show me folic acid defects.

I've done research, plenty of it. I believe knowledge is powerful. Nothing I have seen is anything but a birth defect, and it is not related to depleted uranium.

How are folic acid defects and HI caused by radiation exposure? Don't say a gene mutated because most of these defects are not genetic.

Sister "not making any claims but the facts, ma'am" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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but taking a bunch of babies that have non-related illnesses and putting them up on the web saying: "Depleted uranium caused this!!!!!!!!" is ridiculous. It just makes someone look uneducated. In the link above that I posted, I automatically will question what that guy says because he can't even label birth defects, even common ones. (And the case of spina bifida he posts isn't that severe. It looks horrific, but the lesion is a low one. Chances are better in those cases.)

When exactly did you become an expert on uranium and birth defects? You should do a little thing called research as "keeper of the mad bunnies" odviously did before you have the audasity to say that someone sounds uneducated because they speculate that there is a link between uranium & birth defects. As he said, a simple search of middle eastern birth defects and uranium prove some quite damming evidence that there is a link. And how exactly do you know that the baby pics are not suffering from a uranium related mutation or disease??? Did you take them personally??? If anything makes someone seem uneducated, it's ignorance Sister Ray.


Sister "do your homework, NFBSK it!" Ray [/QB][/QUOTE]

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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Not sure what you wanted to say in the previous post, but I'll reiterate my point. These, with the exception of HI, aren't genetic. They are typically associated with a lack of folic acid. Given that prenatal care is probably substandard in these cases, it's not surprising. (Spina bifida can also be associated with maternal alcohol use. However, I'm not sure if that comes into play here.) Most also can be easily fixed. HI is lethal, but cleft palate is not. A quick trip to the OR would fix it. The person on the page above not only cannot id HI, he doesn't even recognize a pair of twins!

Sister "a twin so I should know" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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BTW sis Ray my nephew was born with a double cleft palate and a "quick trip to the OR" does not fix it. He is 26 and has had well over a dozen surgeries in his life, 7 of which were before the age of 10. So, if you are so severly mistaken about that don't you think there is a possibility that you are underestimating the effects of HI?
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jenn schnarr
Ron Mexico


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BTW sis Ray my nephew was born with a double cleft palate and a "quick trip to the OR" does not fix it. He is 26 and has had well over a dozen surgeries in his life, 7 of which were before the age of 10. So, if you are so severly mistaken about that don't you think there is a possibility that you are underestimating the effects of HI?
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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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You still have not offered any evidence for your claims. I still want to see it.

Cleft palate varies, obviously. Some cases are more severe and some come with other malformations, due to the lack of folic acid. Were all the surgeries to fix the cleft palate, or were some on the structure of the face itself?

Sister "not holding my breath for it" Ray

--------------------
The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by jenn schnarr:
BTW sis Ray my nephew was born with a double cleft palate and a "quick trip to the OR" does not fix it. He is 26 and has had well over a dozen surgeries in his life, 7 of which were before the age of 10. So, if you are so severly mistaken about that don't you think there is a possibility that you are underestimating the effects of HI?

She said HI was lethal. How is she underestimating the effects of it?

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Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lizzy
I Saw Three Shipments


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This child looks like (s)he suffers from HI, like the caption says. Could the child actually be living?

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"Do you see me now? I'm like a fireball . . . with these shoulder pads I have the strength to destroy villages, homes and crops. GEM SWEATER!"

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Prometheus
Acura-puncture


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Just a quick note: TLC showed an interesting documentary last night called "My skin could kill me" and it was about two british sisters (Lucy and Hannah Betts) that were born with the Harlequin Fetus disease and actually survived. I didn't catch the whole show so I'm not sure if they were twins or if Hannah was just a younger sister but Lucy was in her late teens (maybe early 20's) and was doing well as a daycare teaching assistant. Her sister Hannah was born with mild mental retardation and some physical birth defects such as short fingers. Lucy is also legally blind in one eye. The program also featured another family that had two "Harlequin Fetus" children that also survived and will most likely live a long, full life.
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PallasAthena
Xboxing Day


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Prometheus, I saw part of that show too. It was fascinating and inspiring to see how the girls were tackling life with HI. They showed 2 families. For both families, both children had HI. Towards the end of the show, they met with doctors who told the parents that they all share a rare recessive gene. Turns out their very ancient ancestors had been related or something like that. At any rate, they would have all been able to trace their geneology way back to a very specific location.

Supposedly, if the girls married, the mother said that there would be no reason she wouldn't be able to give birth to perfectly normal child. The gene is so rare that the chances of her HI daughter giving birth to an HI baby were slim to none. I did find it interesting that for both sets of parents, all the children had HI.

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"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about." --Ray Nagin

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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It was also interesting that through the genetic testing they saw IIRC 2 possible genes that could be defective makeing the HI skin missing protiens, and that they might be able to add that to the creams to help the treatement.
All the older girls seemed like great kids. The baby seemed uncomfortable and itchy, but the older kids seemed to take their condition in stride.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Lizzy
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Kersten:
This child looks like (s)he suffers from HI, like the caption says. Could the child actually be living?

in this earlier post, I meant to paste this link: http://www.ogrish.com/archives/child_with_harlequin_disease_Mar_06_2006.html

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"Do you see me now? I'm like a fireball . . . with these shoulder pads I have the strength to destroy villages, homes and crops. GEM SWEATER!"

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