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Author Topic: Baby Abductors Shifting Focus
snopes
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As hospitals tighten security in maternity wards, kidnappers are instead preying on newborns in their homes and other locations, experts say.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BABY_FOUND_SECURITY?SITE=FLTAM

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Logoboros
We Three Blings


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quote:
Since 1983, there have been 241 abductions of babies up to 6 months old by non-family members, according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
In other words, statistically, newborn abduction by strangers is a non-event. But let's make sure everyone is terrified of it!

--Logoboros

ETA: For perspective: it would seem that a U.S. resident is as much as three times more likely to be killed or injured by a rampaging zoo or circus animal than to have one's newborn abducted.

--------------------
"If Men were Wise, the Most arbitrary Princes could not hurt them. If they are not wise, the Freest Government is compelld to be a Tyranny."

--William Blake

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martin-at-work
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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There's fewer newborns than adults so I think that your interpretation of the raw numbers is misleading.
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Nicki
Deck the Malls


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It doesn't hurt to be aware of something like that.
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Squishy0405
Wii Wiish You A Merry Chriistmas


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I'm happy the baby was found safe (there was also a 3yr old kidnapped in the BX who was found safe)
I'm glad there is a positive outcomes this time. They mentioned that (last?) year their 2m old daughter choked to death while being burped (investigation ruled out foul play) so this must be a relief. I can see how this situation could come about as a first time mom myself but it's difficult to explain...

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"Fate is like a strange, unpopular resturant, filled with odd waiters who bring you things you never ask for and don't always like."-Lemony Snicket

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ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Nicki:
It doesn't hurt to be aware of something like that.

Yes. Yes it does.

Nicki, you’ve hung one of my munchkins. This message isn’t aimed at you particularly, but at the general attitude of “It doesn't hurt to be aware of something like that.”

I don’t mean this particular issue necessarily, since I haven’t looked at proper statistics of baby snatching.

But it does hurt ‘to be aware’ of scores of unlikely dangers.

It makes us unable to effectively deal with likely dangers.

As merely one example, one of SO’s co-workers is so afraid of the unlikely danger of her kids getting a bit sick from exposure to dirt around the house, that she cleans her entire house with bleach a couple times a week, and cleans with other chemicals every other day.

Her kids are constantly catching colds and any other infectious diseases going around school, because their immune systems haven’t built up resistance to anything by being exposed to things at home. Both SO (RN) and co-worker’s pediatrician mentioned that her kids were sick so often because of the excessive cleanness. But she couldn’t see it. The danger from normal household bacteria and dirt obviously outweighed the danger of a lowered immune system even though her kids kept getting sick!

Such attitudes as “It doesn't hurt to be aware of something like that.” Makes us unable to calculate likely dangers.

It leads parents to expend energy being vigilant about stranger kidnappings whilst not being vigilant about seat belt use.

It leads to vast amounts of volunteer energy, and charitable donations, used to convince parents to not immunize their children, whilst we have whooping cough outbreaks in Washington and mumps running rampant through Ohio.

It leads to energy and money, etc being expended worrying about contained asbestos in buildings whilst we are underfunding public education.

It leads to recess being cancelled in schools across the country, and kids being told not to run on the play ground, whilst we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic among children that could lead to their early deaths!

And countless other examples of misplaced priorities and worries that don’t involve children at all.

As a nation we need to look realistically at how likely dangers are and deal with the likely first and the unlikely later.

--------------------
A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Ink Rose
Deck the Malls


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ULTRAGOTHA THANK YOU! You beat me to listing all the reason such things tick me off. ::worships::

Also, we are most likely to be murdered/hurt by someone we know or are related to then a stranger.

--------------------
Website: http://stu.aii.edu/~krm184
Comic: http://elfhome.keenspace.com

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ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Or This:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/06/08/food.allergies.reut/index.html


Parents overly concerned about their children's allergies, putting their kids on unnecessary restrictive diets, that could cause health problems from unbalanced nutrition.

Thanks, Ink Rose. Worshiping me involves lots of chocolate. [Wink]

--------------------
A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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mags
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
Her kids are constantly catching colds and any other infectious diseases going around school, because their immune systems haven’t built up resistance to anything by being exposed to things at home.

Ugh, there's a commercial right now for some sort of disinfecting wipes that are supposed to be safe to use around children. The tagline, IIRC is "a clean house is a healthy house!" It drives me nuts, because while that is true within reason there are people who take it a little too far within homes where no one has a compromised immune system. Not allowing a healthy immune system to do its job against more begnign foes makes it unable to do its job against malign ones.

People are all too happy to jump on the small risk bandwagon, and ignore the real risks. A good example: my SO's old boss, working at a computer animation studio, got really scared about people sending anthrax through the mail to a congressman. His solution was to make a daily ritual of spraying his desk with lysol, then spraying both of his hands, and slapping it on his face. Clearly that is not healthy. It is way more dangerous than the extrememly miniscule risk of getting anthrax either mailed to you, or enough of it on your own mail to contract it.

Or another example: I've finally trained my SO to wear his seatbelt (our new car binging at him if he goes above 15 mph without his belt helped a lot), but he used to only wear it when on the freeway. However, he was afraid of flying.

People seem to like to worry about the miniscule dangers because then they don't have to worry about the very real ones. I think intellectually, they really know the things they are obsessing over have very little chance of happening, and that offers some sort of comfort.

I personally prefer to worry about, and take action against, the big dangers. I find it much more comforting to know I'm doing all I can to prevent the things most likely to happen to me. Now if I can just keep my willpower strong to continue to bring my weight down [Smile]

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dfresh
Deck the Malls


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Ultragotha, ditto on the thank yous. I think a lot of people need to learn the difference between "possible" and "probable", and which to be more concerned about.
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Logoboros
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by martin-at-work:
There's fewer newborns than adults so I think that your interpretation of the raw numbers is misleading.

I'm fully prepared to admit my statistical comparison may well be flawed (statistics not being my strong suit). But I wasn't comparing the odds of an animal attack to the odds of a being a newborn and being abducted -- which is what your argument would reflect.

But what I'd have to adjust for is how many parents of newborns are there at any given time, and is this number significantly greater or less than the number of people attending an attraction with captive animals at any given time.

So my original comparison ignores the (important) preconditions of, on the one hand, being a parent, and on the other, being in proximity to captive wild animals.

But even if my comparison is bad (though I think it might still hold up), I re-assert that newborn-abduction-by-stranger is statistically non-existant (for all practical purposes).

Oh, and Nicki: I'd recommend you start digging a hole for a cement bunker in your backyard, because that asteroid may land on us any day now. Really. It's not a waste of your time, energy, money, and sanity. Because if you brush it off and happens to you, then you'll be sorry!!!

--Logoboros

--------------------
"If Men were Wise, the Most arbitrary Princes could not hurt them. If they are not wise, the Freest Government is compelld to be a Tyranny."

--William Blake

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timbobmc
Jingle Bell Hock


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Logoboros, and others who agree with his logic, have you read Barry Glassner's book The Culture of Fear; Why Americans are Afraid of the Wrong Things ?

A very enlightening book which I enjoyed quite a bit. It actually reinforced my belief that the media and press are the world's largest group of terrorists.

This is an excellent book which should be read by all of those people who believe that "it doesn't hurt to be aware of something like that."

--------------------
Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen.

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Alex Buchet
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Epidemiologists were interested to note that children raised on farms were far less likely to develop allergies than urban kids were.

In fact, they found a direct correlation between the cleanliness of households and the incidence of allergies in these households' children.

France still commonly sells cheese made from unpasteurised milk, but it has no significantly higher incidence of food intoxication (salmonellas, etc) than do countries which mandate pasteurisation for all dairy products.

In 1995, the Paris Metro was hit by several terrorist bombing attacks by Islamist extremists. One of my colleagues immediately stopped taking the Metro and commuted thenceforth to work by car.

I estimate she then had something like 400 times more probability of dying en route to work than she'd've had if she'd stuck to public transport.

Generally, humans seem ill-equipped to evaluate true risks.

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martin-at-work
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Logoboros:
quote:
Originally posted by martin-at-work:
There's fewer newborns than adults so I think that your interpretation of the raw numbers is misleading.

I'm fully prepared to admit my statistical comparison may well be flawed (statistics not being my strong suit)...(insert statistics)... I re-assert that newborn-abduction-by-stranger is statistically non-existant (for all practical purposes).
--Logoboros

Agreed [Smile]

I try to educate my wife about statistical improbabilities all the time.

For example, she gets upset at me if I leave Junior in the car while I go pay for petrol. The car is locked, I have the keys. She is worried about the accidental child abductions (as a result of a car theft) you "see on TV all the time" . I point out that (a) we saw three on TV, (b) in each case the car was left running with the keys in the ignition (c) our car has never been stolen in 15 seconds from a service station (or anywhere else) AND our new car has a car alarm and an engine immobiliser. In order to head off further hysteria, I also point out that the child is fed, there is sufficient air in the car for at least half a day, and the car is under cover, not in the blazing sun.

Regardless of my logic, she sees me as a delinquent parent. When children are involved, logic flies out the window.

---------------------------------

From the article:
quote:
As hospitals tighten security in maternity wards,
The local BIG maternity hospital has a password-protected door for after hours access. The password has not been changed for 3 years... [Roll Eyes]
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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
As a nation we need to look realistically at how likely dangers are and deal with the likely first and the unlikely later.

Well said, well said, well said, well said!

This begs the question: exactly where is the line between the likely and the unlikely? If we spend all our energy preparing for the likely, what would we do when the unlikely strikes? Play it by ear?

I have a feeling that what the geberal public needs is a good dose of risk management.

- Pseudo " [Confused] " Croat

--------------------
"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Mau
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Agreed [Smile]

I try to educate my wife about statistical improbabilities all the time.

For example, she gets upset at me if I leave Junior in the car while I go pay for petrol. The car is locked, I have the keys. She is worried about the accidental child abductions (as a result of a car theft) you "see on TV all the time" . I point out that (a) we saw three on TV, (b) in each case the car was left running with the keys in the ignition (c) our car has never been stolen in 15 seconds from a service station (or anywhere else) AND our new car has a car alarm and an engine immobiliser. In order to head off further hysteria, I also point out that the child is fed, there is sufficient air in the car for at least half a day, and the car is under cover, not in the blazing sun.

Regardless of my logic, she sees me as a delinquent parent. When children are involved, logic flies out the window.

---------------------------------

If it's not too hot [above 65-ish] and not too cold, I'll usually leave my daughter in the locked car while I dash into 7-11 [literally, at most 5 minutes]. She's never been abducted yet x=
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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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I had a friend when I lived in Somerset who was afraid to walk alone in an uncrowded street with her baby, "in case someone steals her." Since I lived in a cul-de-sac, when she came to visit she would run from her car to my house with her baby in her arms.

This based on a couple of overheard, misunderstood retellings of child abductions.

This friend had IBS and anxiety disorder. A chicken and egg situation of course, but whichever came first, it hurt her to be aware of something like that.

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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quote:
Originally posted by Neffti:
I had a friend when I lived in Somerset who was afraid to walk alone in an uncrowded street with her baby, "in case someone steals her." Since I lived in a cul-de-sac, when she came to visit she would run from her car to my house with her baby in her arms.

Thereby increasing the probability of tripping and falling so that the baby's head would make contact with the pavement....

Nonny

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When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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UrbanReindeer
Deck the Malls


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My ex-husband was like that. "Why don't you hold her hand walking down a public sidewalk?! Someone could drive by and snatch her!!!!"

Yet it didn't bother him that she was without medical insurance for years, which he was legally required to provide her.

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"He feeds the sparrows of the field, but He doesn't sit there and cram worms into their mouths." -- Mouse

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Ink Rose
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by UrbanRenewal:
My ex-husband was like that. "Why don't you hold her hand walking down a public sidewalk?! Someone could drive by and snatch her!!!!"

Yet it didn't bother him that she was without medical insurance for years, which he was legally required to provide her.

Now that's just plain WRONG. Hypocrite. [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Website: http://stu.aii.edu/~krm184
Comic: http://elfhome.keenspace.com

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Ulkomaalainen
Jingle Bell Hock


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Hi,

while I agree with the general sentiment about probable vs possible dangers (the vaccination phobia being a hanging munchkin of mine), I think it ain't quite as simple as that.

You also have to calculate the "value" of the possible danger and the "value" of the actions it takes you to reduce the probability and/or damage of said danger.

As an example: it is quite probable, that someone will break my car's antenna, if I leave it outside. This has happened 5 times to me over the 10 years of its existence - friends come up with similar numbers. And it would be easy to prevent it: unscrew it and place it in the car. Still, since the expected damage is low, I cannot be bothered to take the 30 seconds to unscrew and another 30 to rescrew it a few hundred, maybe a thousand times, if replacement is simple and cheap.

On the other hand, there are quite a few very improbable dangers, which would cause enormous damage to you, and are quite simply reduced. This is what a lot of insurances make their money with.

Still, the general feeling of "it doesn't hurt to know" is, though more often right than wrong, with this generality not helping, I agree with that.

Ulko "doesn't know too much anyway" maalainen

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Movie characters never make typing mistakes.

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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My wife (the psychologist) tell me that we as humans OVERestimate the chances of unlikely events (comet hitting the Earth) and UNDERestimate the likely events (getting hurt on the highway). Overall, we have a tendency to have a “What? Me worry?” attitude that is actually healthy. If we really looked at our chances of survival, we would be clinically depressed.

--------------------
And now for something completely different...

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snoozn
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
My wife (the psychologist) tell me that we as humans OVERestimate the chances of unlikely events (comet hitting the Earth) and UNDERestimate the likely events (getting hurt on the highway). Overall, we have a tendency to have a “What? Me worry?” attitude that is actually healthy. If we really looked at our chances of survival, we would be clinically depressed.

I just finished reading "Freakonomics" which covers the same thing. For instance people are more worried about and willing to spend far more money on terrorism than on heart disease even though heart disease causes much more injury and death. They also looked at the fact that a family is more likely to keep their kids out of a friend's home if the home has a gun, but not if it has a swimming pool, even though statistically the swimming pool is about 100 times more deadly. (Not sure if that was the exact number, but something like that).

Anyway I'm glad to know that by keeping a non-clean home I'm doing so much to support my children's health!

snoozn

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Kathy B
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I spent much of my career dealing with "risk communication," that is, trying to explain to folks the relative seriousness of various risks--both perceived an real. One of the axioms of that kind of communication is that people have much less fear of things they can control (or they think they can control) than of things they feel are out of their control.

The classic example is driving vs. flying. Although statistically you are much more likely to be killed in a car wreck than a plane crash, people are more likely to be afraid of flying. You are in control of the car; you have no control of the plane. In my field, environmental contamination, people are much more afraid of chemicals used by some evil corporation or farmer (even though use of such things is highly regulated) than of the bug spray, fertilizer, or paint stripper they use themselves. I often talked to people who were vehemently opposed to some company's proposed action, even though data showed it would not affect them, but saw no problem spraying their lawn with a pesticide while wearing shorts, sandals and no gloves.

Baby snatching fits that pattern. You have no control over random strangers who lurk in doorways ready to grab your child. So that is more frightening than leaving the kid with a friend or relative--you feel more in control because you "know and trust" the caregiver, even though most abductions are done by someone the child knows, not a stranger.

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

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Lizzy
I Saw Three Shipments


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I agree with ULTRAGOTHA, but Ulkomaalainen is making a lot of sense, too.

While I know it is very unlikely that something will happen to my baby if I leave her in the locked car while I run into the gas station, I never do it. I always unbuckle her and bring her in with me. The small extra work is worth eliminating the chance, to me. Plus, I don't see any added dangers by taking her in with me.
There are times when "it doesn't hurt" to be conscious of these things.

And sometimes, people really know the statistics, but their emotions get the better of them. My mom is an educated person, but she hates planes. She knows that its way more dangerous for her and my dad to drive 10 straight hours to see me than to fly, but she'd have a nervous breakdown when the plane started for take-off. I think its just part of how we've evolved to learn; her brain has been wired to recognize driving as safe because she's done it so many times and nothing's happened, but she's only flown once.

--------------------
"Do you see me now? I'm like a fireball . . . with these shoulder pads I have the strength to destroy villages, homes and crops. GEM SWEATER!"

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Cambion
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I'm intrigued as well as perplexed at this human reaction to the likely and unlikely dangers...then again, this is coming from someone who sometimes cannot look at photo captures of ghosts alone out of fear I may see one in my apartment, yet who also has no problem walking through a fairly large city at night by herself. I find it interesting how people will be terrified of the most unlikely things, but are either oblivious or indifferent to the dangers they face every day.

You guys have all pretty much summed things up - I don't think there's much else I can add to this discussion.

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snoozn
Deck the Malls


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I have my own theory about why people (including myself) have an irrational fear of flying. I think the lack of control is only part of it. After all, most who are scared to fly are not scared to ride in a care being driven by someone else. For me, there are two big reasons for the fear. One is that I cannot see the pilot and so I don't know what's really going on. If there's a big turbulance bump, I don't know if the pilot is up there swearing and sweating or if it's business as usual. In a car I can see the driver. The second thing is those visions of a plane crashing. When I imagine a car crash in my head it comes with no warning and is quickly over with. Imagining a plane crash I picture it diving out of the sky and all the passengers knowing they are going to die and having several minutes during which they can do nothing about it. Pretty scary! (And I know most accidents happen on take-off and landing, but take-off and turbulance scare me the most). Oh and I'll add a third thing, which is that I tend to think of car crash victims having a pretty good chance of survival, while plane crash victims have almost none.

snoozn

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Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nicki:
[qb] Such attitudes as “It doesn't hurt to be aware of something like that.” Makes us unable to calculate likely dangers.

It leads parents to expend energy being vigilant about stranger kidnappings whilst not being vigilant about seat belt use.

I don't see how these things are related. Does teaching your kids not to talk of strangers really make parents less vigilant about seatbelt use?
I agree that it "doesn't hurt" to be aware of things like that, as long as you are not getting to the point of being paranoid or phobic about everything. It does not hurt me or take away any of my energy to know what to do if I'm attacked by a shark, even though the statistical chance of me being attacked by a shark is very very low (even lower since I live in the midwest and have only been in ocean water twice in my life.) Now, if learning about how to defend myself against a shark were to make me afraid of all water, that would hurt me. However, that would not be the fault of the person who told me about sharks.

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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A quick check of NCMEC shows that out of that total (I counted all children under one taken by non-family members or believed to be otherwise taken) about a dozen are still missing. Two cases seem from the circumstances to be homicides; the others appear to be legitimite stranger abduction of an infant. Toddlers seem to be more commonly victimized, but still a very small amount.

The missing kid issue is a serious one, but people ignore the majority of the kids when they focus on the stranger abduction or the stereotypical kidnapping.

Sister "but you've heard me say that before..." Ray

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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I've got a quick one about the perceived danger and actual danger. My wife has a friend she visits in Nottingham. About a month ago shortly after she had come back from one of these visits there was a news report about a stabbing in Nottingham, she exclaimed something to the effect of 'Oh my god, I was just walking down that street' and preceded to worry about her friend living in such a rough area.
OK stabbings are a danger but this was an isolated incident, she was worried about her friend yet she happily walks down our street where to my knowledge there was at least 7 fatal stabbings last year (We live in Glasgow the knife capital of Europe).
So we live in a far worse area than our friend but because it was reported on the news my wife sees it a a bigger risk where her friend lives.

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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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SiKboy
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by lazerus the duck:
I've got a quick one about the perceived danger and actual danger. My wife has a friend she visits in Nottingham. About a month ago shortly after she had come back from one of these visits there was a news report about a stabbing in Nottingham, she exclaimed something to the effect of 'Oh my god, I was just walking down that street' and preceded to worry about her friend living in such a rough area.
OK stabbings are a danger but this was an isolated incident, she was worried about her friend yet she happily walks down our street where to my knowledge there was at least 7 fatal stabbings last year (We live in Glasgow the knife capital of Europe).
So we live in a far worse area than our friend but because it was reported on the news my wife sees it a a bigger risk where her friend lives.

I've got a friend who is similar. She lives in Bridgeton (Not the best area of glasgow, I'll admit), and there was a shooting there reletively recently. Now she wants to move because of the risks of a shooting, she tells me as she walks past gangs of battle-scarred thugs comparing knives...

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martin-at-work
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Xia:
quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nicki:
[qb] Such attitudes as “It doesn't hurt to be aware of something like that.” Makes us unable to calculate likely dangers.

It leads parents to expend energy being vigilant about stranger kidnappings whilst not being vigilant about seat belt use.

I don't see how these things are related. Does teaching your kids not to talk of strangers really make parents less vigilant about seatbelt use?
I agree that it "doesn't hurt" to be aware of things like that, as long as you are not getting to the point of being paranoid or phobic about everything. It does not hurt me or take away any of my energy to know what to do if I'm attacked by a shark, even though the statistical chance of me being attacked by a shark is very very low (even lower since I live in the midwest and have only been in ocean water twice in my life.) Now, if learning about how to defend myself against a shark were to make me afraid of all water, that would hurt me. However, that would not be the fault of the person who told me about sharks.

I think that what Ultragotha may have been getting at was "Danger Assessment Fatigue" (I just made that up).

We as parents are being made so afraid of everything, regardless of actual risk, that there is the danger that we'll ignore or downplay something that is decidedly risky simply because our brains are worn out. There's also the danger that the kids will ignore real dangers if we lump them in together with what they can see (or percieve) are miniscule dangers. (That's why telling a 15 year old that cigarettes will give them cancer when they're 60 just doesn't work.)

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jessboo
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by SiKboy:
quote:
Originally posted by lazerus the duck:
I've got a quick one about the perceived danger and actual danger. My wife has a friend she visits in Nottingham. About a month ago shortly after she had come back from one of these visits there was a news report about a stabbing in Nottingham, she exclaimed something to the effect of 'Oh my god, I was just walking down that street' and preceded to worry about her friend living in such a rough area.
OK stabbings are a danger but this was an isolated incident, she was worried about her friend yet she happily walks down our street where to my knowledge there was at least 7 fatal stabbings last year (We live in Glasgow the knife capital of Europe).
So we live in a far worse area than our friend but because it was reported on the news my wife sees it a a bigger risk where her friend lives.

I've got a friend who is similar. She lives in Bridgeton (Not the best area of glasgow, I'll admit), and there was a shooting there reletively recently. Now she wants to move because of the risks of a shooting, she tells me as she walks past gangs of battle-scarred thugs comparing knives...
Someone got robbed at knifepoint near my boyfriend's flat a few months ago, and my mum is now freakishly worried that i'll be attacked on my way home from the cinema (I go past the ATM, which is where this woman got her money out before being robbed), despite my assurances that if there are *any* individuals around, I will ring the boyf to meet me, that it's so well-lit it's like noon, and it takes literally 30 seconds to run from the cinema to the flat - or more pertinently, to the security office.

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Do you have any wine? All of this would go a lot smoother in an altered state of reality.

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Birgie
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by snoozn:
[QUOTE]

Anyway I'm glad to know that by keeping a non-clean home I'm doing so much to support my children's health!

snoozn

I totally agree! My son is almost 2 and has only been sick twice. One time was when we were on vacation.

I don't want to raise him to be afraid of everything either. So I let him walk by himself, but I am very near. I feel lucky that I don't have many fears about the world. But my fear of heights is pretty strange! Example, on the Space Needle I couldn't go near the edge of the deck for fear that I would fall or the structure would topple, neither likely to happen.

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"of all tyrannies, the tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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NormaDesmond
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by Birgie:
So I let him walk by himself, but I am very near.

I just love this. It's almost poetry. It's wonderful parenting, too.

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There was a maharajah who came all the way from India to beg one of her silk stockings. Later he strangled himself with it!

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