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Author Topic: Former President Gerald Ford dies at 93
rockland6674
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Link to yahoo.com's obit:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061227/ap_on_re_us/obit_ford

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cubbie
Deck the Malls


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looks like you got it before me rock. It's very sad that he died. It's not surprising though since he has been sick recently and is 93.

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i reject reality and submit my own

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I'm sad. I know a lot of people who never forgave him for pardoning Nixon, but I thought he was a decent man.

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snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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The Kennedy assassination curse strikes again! Another key figure dead. Will they stop at nothing to silence the truth?

- snopes

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callee
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Silence the truth? What are you talking about? You can get Stone's movie any time you want from any corner video store.

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a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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Sad.

That leaves Carter, Bush, and Clinton. When was the last time that there were only 3 living ex-presidents?

We have crazy amounts of ex-prime ministers alive (Turner, Clark, Mulroney, Campbell, Chretien, Martin), but we change them so often it's not surprising.

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snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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quote:
When was the last time that there were only 3 living ex-presidents?
I think during Nixon's second term (until his resignation) there weren't any, LBJ having died right around Inauguration Day.

- snopes

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I believe three is more than there usually were during the 20th century. There weren't any for most of the 1920s, for example, and then Herbert Hoover was the only one from 1933-1953.

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
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Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
I'm sad. I know a lot of people who never forgave him for pardoning Nixon, but I thought he was a decent man.

I think he was a decent man, as well. I don't think there is anything to forgive for his pardoning of Nixon, but I don't think it was exactly the healing salve for the nation that the commentators have proclaimed it.

I think I'll blog about that today, in fact...

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
When was the last time that there were only 3 living ex-presidents?
I think during Nixon's second term (until his resignation) there weren't any, LBJ having died right around Inauguration Day.

- snopes

That's my recollection, too.

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
I'm sad. I know a lot of people who never forgave him for pardoning Nixon, but I thought he was a decent man.

I was furious when he pardoned Nixon. I wanted Nixon indicted. I wanted Nixon in jail. But it wasn't long after the pardon that I realized it was the best thing for the country. The long national nightmare was over. It was time to move on, to pay attention to other things.

I believe the pardon cost Ford the Presidency, partly because some people disagreed with it but partly because it sorta involved him indirectly in Watergate. It was like the mess wasn't over until the clean-up crew left. Ford was the clean-up crew.

Remember that he was given 2001 John F. Kennedy the Profile in Courage award, a selection made by the Kennedy family. Many people not only forgave but they came to admire Ford for what he did.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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desertdweller
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Truman died in Dec '72 and Johnson in Jan '73. Nixon resigned in Aug '74.

I agree, Mr Ford was a decent man.

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Just singin' in the Bahrain

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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Am I the only one that keeps hearing the SNL skit, "Gerald Ford senselessly mauled by tigers..."?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Morgaine La Raq Star
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Does anyone know if it will be a state funeral like Reagans was? Reports have said there will be 2 services in Washington DC & Michigan but no mention if its a state funeral.
And, as snopes mentioned, having 'only' 3 former presidents isn't that unusual. You have to remember that, pre-FDR, there were no term limits. We had 12 years of just FDR as President, Hoover died about a year after Kennedy was shot.
Actually, checking Wikipedia, Eisenhower was alive for a few months after Nixon was sworn in. Nixon was sworn in in January 1969 & Eisenhower died in March of 1969.
AFA Nixons 2nd term, he was sworn in on the 20th & LBJ died on the 22nd, unless the date of the inaguration was moved for some reason.
Depending on the next few Presidents, with Clinton & GWB both being relatively young, we could have another 'run' of former Presidents all still living years after their terms expire.

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Steve
Happy Holly Days


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I don't see how Ford's reputation for decency squares with his OKing of the Indonesian invasion of East Timor.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB62/#doc4

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Am I the only one that keeps hearing the SNL skit, "Gerald Ford senselessly mauled by tigers..."?

No. All I could think of when I first heard the news was Chevy Chase falling down stairs. Poor Ford, probably best remembered for his public kluztiness more than anything else -- at least by those of us from the original SNL generation [Smile] .

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Am I the only one that keeps hearing the SNL skit, "Gerald Ford senselessly mauled by tigers..."?

No. All I could think of when I first heard the news was Chevy Chase falling down stairs. Poor Ford, probably best remembered for his public kluztiness more than anything else -- at least by those of us from the original SNL generation [Smile] .
And yet he was one of the best athletes to ever live in the White House. He had been a football All-American and turned down offers from the Green Bay Packers and the Detroit Lions to play for their team, deciding instead to go to law school.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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keokuk
Deck the Malls


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It's an odd first thought, but my reaction was the realization that Carter is now the only living ex-president who was in office before I was born.
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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by keokuk:
It's an odd first thought, but my reaction was the realization that Carter is now the only living ex-president who was in office before I was born.

The last time there was a living president who took office before I was born was December 1972. [Eek!]

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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From MSNBC.COM: Chevy Chase recalls Ford as "a terrific guy"

quote:
“Later on we became friends and he was a very, very sweet man,” Chase said in a telephone interview from a Colorado ski resort. “He took my wife and I on a whole lovely trip through Grand Rapids to show us where he had been as a child and what not. We kept in touch and he was just a terrific guy.”


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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Orshee
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Does anyone know if it will be a state funeral like Reagans was? Reports have said there will be 2 services in Washington DC & Michigan but no mention if its a state funeral.
Looks like the answer is yes:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061227/D8M9FME80.html

My own politics aside, I thought Reagan's funeral (both the DC services and the California services) was lovely. It seems like we don't get to see this kind of grand ceremony often in the States. C-SPAN did a great job of covering Reagan's services; I hope they'll do the same this weekend.

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
I'm sad. I know a lot of people who never forgave him for pardoning Nixon, but I thought he was a decent man.

I think he was a decent man, as well. I don't think there is anything to forgive for his pardoning of Nixon, but I don't think it was exactly the healing salve for the nation that the commentators have proclaimed it.

I think I'll blog about that today, in fact...

"decent" I just watched NBC news and they said the one word that seemed to pop up most frequently when describing him was "decent". I would probably agree with that (I didn't entirely agree with pardoning Nixon but in hindsight it probably was best for us to get on with things and past it - I remember the "nightmare" that was Watergate, and it really was a nightmare) but then I start to wonder what exactly we mean by "decent" in respect to him? What about him made us all think of him as "decent?"

I do hope he will have a dignified and lovely service though.

eta -well, not ALL of us thinking he was decent but many of us.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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Uh well, did he do anything other than pardoning nixon that earns him the title of "decent"?

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Freshman:
Uh well, did he do anything other than pardoning nixon that earns him the title of "decent"?

I'd suggest you read any one of the hundreds of news articles that have come out since his death was announced. You'll be able to see for yourself why most people feel that he was a good man.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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No he wasn't: http://redstateson.blogspot.com/2006/12/gaw-in-action.html

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
I'm sad. I know a lot of people who never forgave him for pardoning Nixon, but I thought he was a decent man.

I think he was a decent man, as well. I don't think there is anything to forgive for his pardoning of Nixon, but I don't think it was exactly the healing salve for the nation that the commentators have proclaimed it.

I think I'll blog about that today, in fact...

"decent" I just watched NBC news and they said the one word that seemed to pop up most frequently when describing him was "decent". I would probably agree with that (I didn't entirely agree with pardoning Nixon but in hindsight it probably was best for us to get on with things and past it - I remember the "nightmare" that was Watergate, and it really was a nightmare) but then I start to wonder what exactly we mean by "decent" in respect to him? What about him made us all think of him as "decent?"

I do hope he will have a dignified and lovely service though.

eta -well, not ALL of us thinking he was decent but many of us.

By "decent," I mean he wasn't an asshole.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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He was an asshole, apparently. See my last post

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Freshman:
He was an asshole, apparently. See my last post

I bet with a minimum of effort I could link to blogs with a different perspective. Do you really think that should be an acceptable way in which to draw conclusions about, well, anything?

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Freshman
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How can you ignore that? lest you have a historical context of the whole massacre

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educatedindian
I Saw Three Shipments


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I think Freshman has a point, though I wouldn't use the same terms he did.

People too often forget and forgive all the wrongs a president did when he dies. That's an understandable human impulse, but it's terrible history and terrible policy.

Recall all the ridiculous nonsense said when Reagan died, the man who had the blood of hundreds of thousands of Central Americans on his hands, the man who (contrary to his more blind admirers) PROLONGED the Cold War.

Ford may have been a decent man in person. So what? That's little different than all the people who met John Gotti once and found him charming.

You judge a man by his actions and his legacy, and there was an ugly side to Ford.

1. This was the guy who recalled proudly the episode as a youngster where he assaulted other kids for daring to paint a slogan he disagreed with.

2. This was a man famous, while still in Congress, for repeatedly publicly demanding of Nixon, "Why are we pulling our punches in Vietnam?"

3. This was a man who, after taking the VP oath, made clear his first loyalty was to Nixon, not to the country. Many still believe the pardon was part of a corrupt quid pro quo, nothing noble about it all.

4. He was a bumbler among other bumblers in his most famous assignment pre-Presidency, on the Warren Commission. (And no, I don't want to bring up the incredibly convoluted and ultimately useless question of the assassination. The simple fact is, the Warren Commission did a terrible job that your average small town DA could've done better.)

5. Giving the green light to mass atrocities in East Timor as he did IS completely unforgivable, akin to turning back Jewish refugees from Hitler.

6. And his supposedly most courageous act, pardoning Nixon?

Nixon's most evil acts had zero to do with Watergate. See Cambodia, where Nixon's bombings killed half as many (600,000) as the Khmer Rouge, and helped bring them to power.

But putting Nixon on trial, even if not for his most agregious evils, would have been the best thing for the country. It would have shown NO ONE is above the law.

Granted, much like putting Capone in jail for incame tax evasion, it's a poor second choice, but it's better than nothing.

Essentially I'd like to know what is the difference between pardoning someone like Nixon and someone like Pinochet or Idi Amin?

When you say pardoning Nixon was what's best for the country, how is that different from what Pinochet's admirers in Chile were saying? Again, keep in mind Nixon WAS guilty of far worse than Watergate.

A TRULY courageous man would've put some backbone in the country to get them to see that the most important thing was to prove no one, presidents included, was above the law. That's something many people need to be made to see right now. (Yes, I'm talking about Pelosi and the other gutless wonders who were just elected. I still hope they've prove me wrong and grow some spines.)

Then again, I never got why putting Nixon on trial would be "our long national nightmare." Not unless you have some ridiculously idealistic picture of presidents.

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Freshman:
How can you ignore that? lest you have a historical context of the whole massacre

You linked a blogger who discussed a political foreign policy decision made by the POTUS which was not unlike many of the political foreign policy decisions made by all the PsOTUS.

From Wiki on East Timor
quote:
Indonesian occupation

Indonesia alleged that the popular East Timorese FRETILIN party, which received some vocal support from the People's Republic of China, was communist. Fearing a Communist domino effect in Southeast Asia – and in the wake of its lost cause in South Vietnam – the United States, along with its ally Australia, supported the pro-Western Indonesian government's actions despite Portugal being a founding member of NATO.

An Indonesian invasion was launched over the western border on 7 December 1975. The day before the invasion of Dili and subsequent annexation, U.S. President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger met President Suharto in Jakarta where Ford made it clear that "[w]e will understand and will not press you on the issue. We understand the problem and the intentions you have."

The Cold War was still going on, Vietnam had just ended, the domino effect was the big theory of the day. When put in that perspective -- the historical context -- Ford did what any POTUS would have done at the time. In fact, that support continued during the Reagan, Bush 41 and the Clinton administrations.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Freshman
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Educatedindian: I'm female. And Just because it's what any president of the u.s would've done didn't necessairly make it right.

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by educatedindian:

Essentially I'd like to know what is the difference between pardoning someone like Nixon and someone like Pinochet or Idi Amin?

Nothing, if Pinochet or Amin tried for political corruption and the cover-up. Fact is, no one was considering charging Nixon with anything related to the deaths involved in with the war in Southeast Asia but only for little more than a cover-up of a break-in at the Watergate Hotel.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Freshman:
Educatedindian: I'm female. And Just because it's what any president of the u.s would've done didn't necessairly make it right.

Well, it was considered "right" because of the domino effect. It's because of the domino effect that any president of the time would have done the same thing. You put the cart before the horse.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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educatedindian
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Well, Fresh, the name you chose is deceptive, though we should put the blame on the whole "male as default" terminology.

Sara, have you seen the other posts in here about how terrible a source Wikipedia is?

Sukharno's claim was based on a falsehood as flimsy as the claims that Guatemala was "going Communist" in the 1950s. FRETILIN was a populist Catholic party. (See Chomsky's works on East Timor.)

FDR received support from Communists like Stalin in WWII. That only made him "Communist" in the eyes of the most deluded on the far right.

Posts: 69 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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