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Author Topic: Barack Obama lost the presidency
Buckleupp
Away in a Manager


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A coworker of mine commented last week that when Jay Leno announced on the Tonight Show that Barack Obama's middle name is Hussein, that might have lost him the presidential election, because of many Americans' anti-anything-remotely-Islamic bias. It's not that no one knew his middle name before, she said, but that Jay Leno's announcing it brought it to a larger and not-otherwise-political audience.

I was just wondering what people think of that, if you think it might affect his campaign at all, and if so, to what extent/where/etc.

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I think the people that won't vote for him because his middle name is Hussein are the same people that wouldn't vote for him because his first name is Barack, his last name is Obama, and he is not white. So I don't think it will affect his campaign at all.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Jordashe
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Better people get their fascination with a middle name out of the way this far in advance.
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Cowboy Joe
Deck the Malls


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Beyond becoming a constant point upon which comedians and talk radio yoyos can use to deride the man, I would hope most people would overlook his name and vote according to what he stands for.

Oh, who the hell am I kidding, he's lost it for sure now!!! [Big Grin]


ETA: Fixed grammar usage problems.

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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

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I Am 6-Ironsman
Deck the Malls


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"When told that Barack Obama was in Iraq this week, President Bush asked 'Did we get him?" -Weekend Update, SNL
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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Jon Stewart did the Husein and the Obama sounds like Osama joke waayy back. Last week actually, I think

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Yup, Stewart did it last week. Something like "His last name rhymes with Osama, and his middle name, no joke, is Hussein."

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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keokuk
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
I think the people that won't vote for him because his middle name is Hussein are the same people that wouldn't vote for him because his first name is Barack, his last name is Obama, and he is not white. So I don't think it will affect his campaign at all.

Well said.
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keokuk
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Yup, Stewart did it last week. Something like "His last name rhymes with Osama, and his middle name, no joke, is Hussein."

I think he also had, "His first name rhymes with Iraq."
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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I find it interesting that so many people say things like "He's the answer we've been looking for." or "Finally, a person I could support if he runs!" Yet when you ask these people where Mr. Obama stands on certain issues, they have no idea. Go figure.

I suspect that Rhiandmoi is correct in her assessment of the situation.

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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violetbon
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Obama hasn't been around long enough to have developed a reputation on certain hot-button issues. I find him very likeable, but don't feel that I have enough info about his views to give or deny him my vote as of yet.

Having actively worked (volunteer)on a political campaign this past November, it was my experience that often people said they were voting on "issues" but were likely in reality voting on likeability, as they often misstated what their candidate of choice/foe actually stood for. This refers to the generic voting public, not all voters. Obviously there are many exceptions.

As for the middle name of Hussein, I don't think it will have much of an effect. It's already old news, and by the time elections roll around, his name's 15 minutes of fame will be long gone. And any opponent who made an issue of it would be quickly deemed an idiot.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago, G.R.I.T.S.:
I find it interesting that so many people say things like "He's the answer we've been looking for." or "Finally, a person I could support if he runs!" Yet when you ask these people where Mr. Obama stands on certain issues, they have no idea. Go figure.

I remember discussing this idea a couple of weeks ago or so with someone here. I am sure there are some who don't know where he stands on issues, but I don't know if it is so many of his supporters that it is now the default position.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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callee
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago, G.R.I.T.S.:
I find it interesting that so many people say things like "He's the answer we've been looking for." or "Finally, a person I could support if he runs!" Yet when you ask these people where Mr. Obama stands on certain issues, they have no idea. Go figure.

I remember discussing this idea a couple of weeks ago or so with someone here. I am sure there are some who don't know where he stands on issues, but I don't know if it is so many of his supporters that it is now the default position.
I think that was me. We started here and in subsequent posts you gave some links.

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a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll

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snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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quote:
A coworker of mine commented last week that when Jay Leno announced on the Tonight Show that Barack Obama's middle name is Hussein, that might have lost him the presidential election
George W. Bush shared a last name with someone who had recently been booted out of the presidency, and it didn't seem to hurt him.

- snopes

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Jay Temple
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by violetbon:
Obama hasn't been around long enough to have developed a reputation on certain hot-button issues. I find him very likeable, but don't feel that I have enough info about his views to give or deny him my vote as of yet.

This is why he won't be the 44th President. What's unfortunate is that, for all I know, he might be a good President, but the early talk when he's not ready may mean that he's a has-been when he is ready.

quote:
And any opponent who made an issue of it would be quickly deemed an idiot.

Right, and we haven't elected any idiots lately. [dunce]

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"Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr and callee, I read the first few in that thread you two mentioned and then never got back to it. Thanks for the reminder! I just read more of it and have found it very informative. I need to learn more about this man. He's looking better all the time.

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by callee:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago, G.R.I.T.S.:
I find it interesting that so many people say things like "He's the answer we've been looking for." or "Finally, a person I could support if he runs!" Yet when you ask these people where Mr. Obama stands on certain issues, they have no idea. Go figure.

I remember discussing this idea a couple of weeks ago or so with someone here. I am sure there are some who don't know where he stands on issues, but I don't know if it is so many of his supporters that it is now the default position.
I think that was me. We started here and in subsequent posts you gave some links.
Oh, yeah! Now it's all coming back to me.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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On his name: Obama himself said something very much like what Rhiandmoi said on the Ed Schultz radio show recently: that people who wouldn't vote for him owing to his name or race are probably people who wouldn't vote for him anyway, once they knew what his politics were. In fact, Newsweek recently quoted a Republican strategist as admitting more-or-less the same thing: that someone who wouldn't vote for a black candidate probably wouldn't be voting Democratic regardless.

Oh...on the point that "any opponent who made it an issue would be seen as an idiot": the problem there is that it won't be his opponent that will make it the issue. They'll be as polite and gracious as can be. The whole right-wing noise machine, on the other hand....(I understand Rush Limbaugh already calls him "Osama Obama." And at least one moron blogger is saying "Once a Muslim, always a Muslim" even though Obama is not now and never has been a Muslim....)

On Obama and issues: it's not that hard to find out generally where he stands on things. But at the risk of sounding like the conservative Christians who continue to support Bush, I like Obama because he shares my values. Read the chapter entitled "Values" in The Audacity of Hope and you'll see what I mean. (It helps that I agree with him on just about every issue, as well -- except perhaps that he doesn't actually endorse gay marriage, but any candidate who does probably won't win in 2008. He does, at least, think civil unions are perfectly fine.)

On his lack of experience: people keep retelling a story where some advisors cautioned JFK against running on similar grounds. Kennedy's reply: "If I don't run, whoever wins will be there for eight years and will influence who his successor will be... if I don't run, I'll have to stay in the Senate for at least eight more years. As a potential candidate in the Senate, I'll have to vote politically, and I'll end up as both a mediocre senator and a lousy candidate."

I don't think Obama will be a mediocre senator, but as John Kerry can tell you, a long Senate career isn't necessarily a great help to a Presidential campaign.

Besides...how much experience did Abarham Lincoln have? He lost his race to be the Senator from Illinois...

--E.Q. "has an Obama 2008 bumper sticker on my truck already" Taft

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Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

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Jay Temple
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
I understand Rush Limbaugh already calls him "Osama Obama."

In fairness, he's actually making fun of Ted Kennedy, who couldn't get the name right.

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"Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy

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keokuk
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
On his lack of experience: people keep retelling a story where some advisors cautioned JFK against running on similar grounds. Kennedy's reply: "If I don't run, whoever wins will be there for eight years and will influence who his successor will be... if I don't run, I'll have to stay in the Senate for at least eight more years. As a potential candidate in the Senate, I'll have to vote politically, and I'll end up as both a mediocre senator and a lousy candidate."

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a second on that, it is worth noting that by the time he ran for president, JFK had served three terms in the House and eight years in the Senate. He was young for a president, but he wasn't particularly inexperienced.

In fact, if you compare previous high political offices held by all the presidents since JFK, he's not too far from the median.

(Defining high office as statewide elected office, or federal office.)

Kennedy: 6 years House, 8 years Senate.

Johnson: 4 years House, 19 years Senate, 3 years VP.

Nixon: 4 years House, 2 years Senate, 8 years VP

Ford*: 24 years House, 1 year VP

Carter: 4 years Governor.

Reagan: 8 years Governor.

Bush: 4 years House, 1 year head of CIA, 8 years VP.

Clinton: 2 years Attorney General of Arkansas, 11 years Governor.

Bush: 5 years Governor.

*Worth nothing that experience as a factor in electability doesn't matter since he was never elected.

Obviously it's hard to compare what counts for experience. Governors don't get much foreign policy but know how to deal with pushing legislation through state legislatures. Being Vice President means different things in different administrations, and until Mondale it pretty much didn't give any practical experience. Just pointing out that JFK was no neophyte.

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Well, going by the numbers, only two Presidents have made the jump directly from the Senate to the White House (JFK and, er...one other I've forgotten...). In recent years, particularly, being a Governor or ex-Governor is a much safer route.

Obama does have some experience in the Illinois state senate of course, but that probably doesn't count for a lot on the national level (except to give him a bit more of a record to analyze).

Of course, I think there's also a pretty fair chance Obama could wind up as the VP nominee, and if the Democrats win, that could put him in the Presidency some years down the road. Or not...it's pretty hard to predict that far out.

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Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

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Simply Madeline
The First USA Noel


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Warren Harding was the other.
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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
And at least one moron blogger is saying "Once a Muslim, always a Muslim" even though Obama is not now and never has been a Muslim....)

quote:
So, even if he identifies strongly as a Christian, and even if he despised the behavior of his father (as Obama said on Oprah); is a man who Muslims think is a Muslim, who feels some sort of psychological need to prove himself to his absent Muslim father, and who is now moving in the direction of his father's heritage, a man we want as President when we are fighting the war of our lives against Islam? Where will his loyalties be?

Is that even the man we'd want to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency, if Hillary Clinton offers him the Vice Presidential candidacy on her ticket (which he certainly wouldn't turn down)?

NO WAY, JOSE . . . Or, is that, HUSSEIN?


[Eek!] Where do people get these ideas???

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"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
And while Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that's not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim. He may think he's a Christian, but they do not.
I wonder how Ms. Schlussel feels about Xtians who converted from Judaism, or whose parents did? Because according to Jewish tradition, once a Jew, always a Jew.

I love the way she makes his building a relationship with his Kenyan half-sister sound like a sinister act. [Roll Eyes]

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I would love a race between Obama and Condoleeza Rice. What would the bigots and fundamentalists do? Would they just apoplexy and die right there?

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Officially Heartless

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
So, even if he identifies strongly as a Christian, and even if he despised the behavior of his father (as Obama said on Oprah); is a man who Muslims think is a Muslim, who feels some sort of psychological need to prove himself to his absent Muslim father, and who is now moving in the direction of his father's heritage, [/QB]
Dude. Someone took Anxiety of Influance way to seriously.


Is there any evidence whatsoever that he wants to prove himself to the absent father?

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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desertdweller
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I remember the late night comics making jokes about Mario Cuomo too. On the edge of being ethnic jokes if I remember correctly. But, the late night comics seem to have a lot of comments about politicians names, especially if they are not mainstream names. What if a candidate with the unusual name of say, Abraham Lincoln, were to run today?

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Just singin' in the Bahrain

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy Joe:
Beyond becoming a constant point upon which comedians and talk radio yoyos can use to deride the man, I would hope most people would overlook his name and vote according to what he stands for.

What I am afraid of is this:

The swing voters will overlook everything until the minute they decide to vote against Sen. Obama because he is too liberal. Then, at least a few of them, will publicly admit to disliking everything about him. An Obama loss, probable unless a recession hits at just the right time in 2008, will open our racial wounds in a way that a moderate or conservative black candidate, regardless of party, would not.

As for the claims (coming in large measure from Obama himself) that he is a conciliator, these will help him in primaries with Democratic voters who are hoping to find a liberal ideologue who swing voters will fail to recognize as such. However, in real life, a Democrat who wins nationally needs to endorse a few actual non-liberal policies. In a previous thread, the best example of Obama going against the liberal grain that E. Q. Taft could come up with was support for public schoolteacher pay-for-performance -- and in the context of teachers getting paid more overall. He'll have to do better than that.

Just to give a feel for what a real moderate black Democrat might champion, read a little about (I hope) Philadelphia's next mayor, Dwight Evans.

Obama is frontrunner for the Democratic vice-presidential election. Clinton-Obama would be an incredibly strong ticket because Sen. Clinton could tack to the right and still not lose November liberal enthusiasm. I know this isn't what you guys like to hear, but if it was up to the snopes message board the Democrats would generally nominate McGovernite losers.

Kerry pledging victory in Iraq was crucial to his doing as well as he did. While voters may agree with Sen. Obama on some of the foreign policy substance, he is just too much of a dove, if I can used a dated term, for mainstream US sensibilities. After a term or two as vice-president, he would be more identified with the US foreign policy style and thus more electable to the top job.

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"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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quote:
Obama is frontrunner for the Democratic vice-presidential election. Clinton-Obama would be an incredibly strong ticket because Sen. Clinton could tack to the right and still not lose November liberal enthusiasm. I know this isn't what you guys like to hear, but if it was up to the snopes message board the Democrats would generally nominate McGovernite losers.
I never thought of it that way. Neat! I like that, actually.

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"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
In a previous thread, the best example of Obama going against the liberal grain that E. Q. Taft could come up with was support for public schoolteacher pay-for-performance -- and in the context of teachers getting paid more overall.

Did I say that was the best example? It was the example that occurred to me off the top of my head.

I haven't (yet) gone over either his policy proposals or voting record in detail, so I am, admittedly, not in a position to "top" it right at the moment. But from his writing on common American values and clear recognition of the merits of oppoosing viewpoints (even when he disagrees with them), I think he is someone who could govern from the center, even if his personal preferences are somewhere further left.

That's not to say I disagree that Clinton/Obama could be a pretty strong ticket if it happens. But I think Obama/Clark, for instance, could possibly be stronger.

Obama also clearly has more charisma than (say) Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry put together, which has to be considered a big factor in finding someone who can win.

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Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
And while Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that's not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim.

I also want to say to the person who wrote this, "The Arab and Muslim Streets also consider the USA to be the Great Satan, and quite a few there think the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by the Mossad. I think I'll define my own terms, thank you."

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http://eqtaft.blogspot.com

Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
Obama also clearly has more charisma than (say) Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry put together...

Okay, 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 is NOT hard to exceed.... [Wink]

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And now for something completely different...

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Publius
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cowboy Joe:
[qb] I know this isn't what you guys like to hear, but if it was up to the snopes message board the Democrats would generally nominate McGovernite losers.

And if it's up to you, apparently, the country will keep electing the same losers who've spent the past half-decade running the nation into the ground.
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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Publius:
And if it's up to you, apparently, the country will keep electing the same losers who've spent the past half-decade running the nation into the ground.

This country is run into the ground? A few partially connected thoughts follow.

In purchasing power parity, the US ranks 3 out 181 nations. Maybe you would want to knock us down, say, 15%, on grounds of income inequality, but that still leaves us in the top 5.

As for the military side, being so wealthy in absolute terms does create a military burden. It a burden that some said decades ago would destroy us economically, and it hasn't.

Of course it is totally legitimate to try to elect politicians who you think will make us greater than we are, rather than preside over regression to the mean.

Colin Powell says our army is about broken. Is this the kind of thing you are thinking of? If it is true that our military can't withstand this kind of percentage casualty rates, then it's true that the country's days are numbered. But I think we have some life in us yet.

I suppose that the criteria you would use for deciding of we are going into the ground (comparison with an ideal?) is wildly different from mine (comparative history). We all come from someplace different.

9/11 created utterly impossible challenges -- an act of war no great power can ignore, and yet we really still can't fully trace the sources of financing, which means we still can't fully identify our adversary.

Even on the right a lot of people say the country is running into the ground. They are also mistaken.

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"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:

As for the military side, being so wealthy in absolute terms does create a military burden.


How do you figure?

The others in the top 20 don't spend nearly as much as we do; Luxembourg spends practically nothing (though, I suppose being a tiny country makes that a little easier).

We don't have to have a massive military to protect our wealth.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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