posted
Lawmakers have drawn up a resolution naming Jesus Christ as the honorary king of Poland, but have failed to win support from the country's powerful Roman Catholic church.
Richard W
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quote:However, the proposal currently has the support of only 46 members in the 460-seat parliament, well short of the necessary 231 votes to pass. Ruman said the resolution would likely be voted on sometime after Jan. 1.
It doesn't sound likely to pass. That's a shame - it would make a great trivia question...
Jesus - Prince of Peace and King of Poland
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
On the other hand, the League of Polish Families really doesn't sound very nice:
quote:They advocated the forced assimilation of national minorities and the elimination of Jewish influence in business and the professions.
Vehemently anti-German, they urged Poles to overcome their traditional prejudices and seek a close understanding with Russia.
The League of Polish Families campaigned against Polish membership of the European Union.
Its youth wing regularly takes part in anti-gay and anti-abortion demonstrations.
It's only funny when it happens somewhere else...
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Any "pro-Russian" organization in Poland also sounds like they are "pro-Communist". There are a lot of Poles these days who speak with fondness about the years of peace and prosperity under the communists. Nobody was without a job. Kids went to school and were polite. Everyone went to church on Sunday. Crime was virtually non-existent. There were no gays, jews or foreigners, etc. And so on. It's one of those "back in the good old days" mentalities, and it's a relatively new thing. Even the communists kept urging people to "look to the future", rather than the past.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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Canuckistan
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quote:Vehemently anti-German, they urged Poles to overcome their traditional prejudices and seek a close understanding with Russia.
Does anyone else see the painful irony in this statement?
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Vehemently anti-German, they urged Poles to overcome their traditional prejudices and seek a close understanding with Russia.
Does anyone else see the painful irony in this statement?
Ok, I might be dense, please explain it for me.
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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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You are dense, callee.
They're vehemently anti-German and also anti-gay, yet encourage the overcoming of prejudices to align themselves closer with Russia.
It would appear that some prejudices are okay, but others are not. Ironic that people with prejudices like this would call for the end of some prejudices.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
ah, ok, now I see. I was being distracted by the paradoxical contrast between germans and russians, each of which holds the title of greatest evil doer depending on which Pole you talk to.
-------------------- a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll Posts: 3375 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Any "pro-Russian" organization in Poland also sounds like they are "pro-Communist". There are a lot of Poles these days who speak with fondness about the years of peace and prosperity under the communists. Nobody was without a job. Kids went to school and were polite. Everyone went to church on Sunday. Crime was virtually non-existent. There were no gays, jews or foreigners, etc. And so on.
I know that this "looking back fondly on stuff that never happened" thing is popular - but everyone going to church on Sunday in the Soviet Union? I'm sure some people managed to, but weren't they officially atheist? I thought a lot of churches were destroyed and such.
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:There are a lot of Poles these days who speak with fondness about the years of peace and prosperity under the communists.
Didn't Poland used to be part of the Soviet Union under the communists?
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by LeaflessMapleTree: Didn't Poland used to be part of the Soviet Union under the communists?
No. It was part of the Eastern Bloc, and a Warsaw Pact country, but it was not one of the Soviet Socialist Republics. The communist government was put in place by the Soviets, though.
posted
Maple, the "Soviet Union" was the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics", which included the 15 republics of Armenian SSR, Azerbaijan SSR, Byelorussian SSR, Estonian SSR, Georgian SSR, Kazakh SSR, Kyrgyz SSR, Latvian SSR, Lithuanian SSR, Moldavian SSR, Russian SFSR, Tajik SSR, Turkmen SSR, Ukrainian SSR, and Uzbek SSR.
Poland was a sovereign and independent country since 1918 when it was re-established after 123 years of non-existence. Aside from wartime occupation, they have been an independent country since then.
You may be confused with the various mutual defense organizations such as the "Warsaw Pact", which was a military union to counter NATO. It comprised 8 countries (7 after Albania withdrew). There were several other economic associations of communist states, including Cuba, but they were all separate, sovereign, and independent countries.
Poland did not have a communist revolution - communism was forced upon them by virtue of occupation by the Soviet army. There was no widespread encouragement or acceptance of atheism, as there was in the USSR after the Bolshevik revolution. In Poland, the state was not able to discourage the overwhelmingly Catholic population from continuing to attend church. The church was, indeed, very much anti-communist, and public participation in church events was often seen as a sign of protest. In 1949 even, the Catholic church decreed that its members were forbidden from supporting Communist governments.
But I really don't understand how you could be so confused. Did you think that all Communist countries were part of the Soviet Union? What about Cuba? What about the other European Communist countries? Why did they continue to have their own names and flags? Why did East Germany have its own Olympic team? I'm amazed - for all the publicity of the cold war, the aftermath of WW2 and the "forced" communism behind the Iron Curtain, not to mention the notoriety of Poland (and communism) in the news because of the late Pope - that you could have such gaps in your knowledge.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:But I really don't understand how you could be so confused. Did you think that all Communist countries were part of the Soviet Union? What about Cuba? What about the other European Communist countries? Why did they continue to have their own names and flags? Why did East Germany have its own Olympic team? I'm amazed - for all the publicity of the cold war, the aftermath of WW2 and the "forced" communism behind the Iron Curtain, not to mention the notoriety of Poland (and communism) in the news because of the late Pope - that you could have such gaps in your knowledge.
Why the condescending tone? Of course I didn't think Cuba was part of the USSR. But Poland is nearby, so I figured it would have been part of it, too. Are you always shocked when people don't know something that you do?
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:But I really don't understand how you could be so confused. Did you think that all Communist countries were part of the Soviet Union? What about Cuba? What about the other European Communist countries? Why did they continue to have their own names and flags? Why did East Germany have its own Olympic team? I'm amazed - for all the publicity of the cold war, the aftermath of WW2 and the "forced" communism behind the Iron Curtain, not to mention the notoriety of Poland (and communism) in the news because of the late Pope - that you could have such gaps in your knowledge.
Why the condescending tone? Of course I didn't think Cuba was part of the USSR. But Poland is nearby, so I figured it would have been part of it, too. Are you always shocked when people don't know something that you do?
Saying that Poland is part of the USSR, would be akin to saying that Austria is part of Germany. It's close. It used to be. But it isn't. And it's a fairly big mistake to make.
Yes, I am shocked when people are unaware of contemporary history, politics, world affairs, etc. I'm not shocked when people don't know the details of, say, Maxwell's Equations. But I'm surprised when people spread far out stories (you could call them "urban legends"), about something that isn't quite so obscure. Apathy towards knowledge is not one of my favorite things.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
You're 34. I'm 19. I didn't grow up with the USSR, so I'm not as familiar with which countries it was comprised of.
quote:But I'm surprised when people spread far out stories (you could call them "urban legends"), about something that isn't quite so obscure.
Asking if Poland was part of the USSR seems very different to me than deliberately spreading a "far out story".
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I grew up with the USSR and most of the time I can't keep track of the various histories and fates all its bits and pieces, as well as the Warsaw pact countries. We all know different things to a certain degree. I used to be "shocked" when I found out someone didn't know something I thought was common knowledge but I now realise, different people have different spheres of knowledge. As far as I know, MapleTree isn't a history teacher so about his mistake, really, a big "so what" is in order. Get off your iron curtain high horse already.
Posts: 4922 | From: Kyoto, Japan | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ganzfeld: I used to be "shocked" when I found out someone didn't know something I thought was common knowledge
Tell me about it. Teaching a college math class that had some basic probability and statistics, I wrote a quiz item assuming that they knew the make-up of a standard deck of playing cards. [/hijack]
-------------------- "Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy Posts: 3572 | From: St. Louis, MO | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by LeaflessMapleTree: You're 34. I'm 19. I didn't grow up with the USSR, so I'm not as familiar with which countries it was comprised of.
*sigh* You just don't get it. The USSR was not comprised of "countries". You can think of the former Soviet republics as "states", "provinces", "counties", or "administrative regions", but they were not individual countries. Some of them (Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia) used to be sovereign countries, but not since WW2. The annexation of these countries and the whole "Iron Curtain" business is a large part of WW2 and cold war history. Sadly, you happen to be unaware of it. You don't have to be a history teacher to know these things.
Quoting your age should not be an excuse for a good grasp of history, geography, or a general knowledge of the world at large. I dare say that you should have become aware of this during high school. In fact, reading the newspaper or watching the news would have given you ample opportunity to observe this kind of knowledge. I dare say many people younger than you are more aware of the world at large. How would you respond to them? "I'm 19...and...so are you." Sorry, but I don't buy this excuse.
Could you be one of those high-school graduates who can't find their native country on a map of the world? I had the impression that the Canadian education system was better. I guess I was wrong.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I'm 22 and am aware of the nature of the Soviet Union vs Warsaw Pact etc. - but wouldn't have been until quite recently (a few years ago). and my awareness only came about due to interest in politics and contemporary history (not as an academic discipline - purely personal).
compulsory education in history here only took us up to 15-16, and that meant covering the second world war. however, there wasn't a great deal of attention given to the nature of the Soviet Union and other "communist" states outside of their relations with the Allies. if they *did* cover the nature of their interactions it was most likely just another bit of info that went in one ear, out the other.
and in contemporary terms, being still in primary school when the USSR and co. fell, it wasn't something that tended to come up in regular conversation. for most of my teenagerhood the "communist" bloc was one big area ruled by a variety of tossers with a roughly identical ideology. wanting to investigate how those tossers related to one another wasn't really top of my priorities.
also, Mike, you're being extremely condescending, which if nothing else seems quite out of character.
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quote:*sigh* You just don't get it. The USSR was not comprised of "countries". You can think of the former Soviet republics as "states", "provinces", "counties", or "administrative regions", but they were not individual countries.
Not only are you being condescending, but you misunderstand me as well. I didn't say that the USSR was made up of different countries when it was still the USSR. But now that it has broken up, the former republics have become individual countries. And I was saying that I was unaware of which current countries were republics in the USSR. NOT that they were separate countries while the USSR was in existence.
If you're going to be nasty and insulting, (suggest I can't find my own country on a map, for example), at least make sure you are insulting what I actually say.
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:They advocated the forced assimilation of national minorities and the elimination of Jewish influence in business and the professions.
Vehemently anti-German, they urged Poles to overcome their traditional prejudices and seek a close understanding with Russia.
The League of Polish Families campaigned against Polish membership of the European Union.
Its youth wing regularly takes part in anti-gay and anti-abortion demonstrations.
It's only funny when it happens somewhere else...
Double irony...
[1] The Jewish population of Poland went from three million to 50,000 between 1939 and 1945. Not many Jews were left to influence anything - not that it stopped atrocities like the Kielce pogrom of 1946.
[2] Now they want a Jewish King of Poland.
-------------------- You fool! That's not a warrior, that's a banana! - a surreal moment in a role-playing game Posts: 2480 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Wow, H_M. You got bit by the condescension bug, eh? Surely, you could find a nicer tone with which to insult someone's intelligence.
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"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus) Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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This proposal is only slightly less disturbing than the fact that Kim Il-Sung is the "Eternal President of the Republic" of North Korea.
-------------------- "Dear Lord, please protect this rockethouse and all who dwell within..." Posts: 1093 | From: Japan | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Hero_Mike: Quoting your age should not be an excuse for a good grasp of history, geography, or a general knowledge of the world at large. I dare say that you should have become aware of this during high school. In fact, reading the newspaper or watching the news would have given you ample opportunity to observe this kind of knowledge. I dare say many people younger than you are more aware of the world at large. How would you respond to them? "I'm 19...and...so are you." Sorry, but I don't buy this excuse.
Could you be one of those high-school graduates who can't find their native country on a map of the world? I had the impression that the Canadian education system was better. I guess I was wrong.
Hero_Mike, I came into this thread this morning hoping that with a day under your belt to have read what others posted, cool down, and mull things over yourself, you'd have been moved to apologize for your behaviour. I didn't find that, so I'm going with Plan B.
You've a history of mistreating others on this board, and it has prompted me to ask you to clean up your act. This bit I've quoted above shows you haven't done that - I'm still finding your fangs sunk into people's necks. It's time for you to take a break from these boards, hopefully one that will be long enough to convince you to alter how you behave towards others in these forums.
Your account has been disabled. I will ask snopes to reactivate it on January 7, which is two weeks from now.
Barbara
Posts: 2511 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Realizing that I am not totally unbiased person in this regard, but I know that HM was not at home to post, much less apologize, yesterday. Nor is he today.
-------------------- There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe Posts: 6995 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by TurquoiseGirl: I know that HM was not at home to post, much less apologize, yesterday. Nor is he today.
I'm not sure it would matter if he had been. An apology wouldn't have changed the part about the history of mistreating other posters, about which he has been spoken to by the moderators several times. He has continued to turn around and go right back to the same behavior.
An apology doesn't mean much unless with it comes learning to not put oneself in the position of needing to apologize again.
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