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Author Topic: Too fat or deformed to adopt??
Aud
We Three Blings


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There is a somewhat more to adoption than stats. We were fingerprinted for criminal background checks both local and federal. We had medical tests for general health and HIV and TB. There were essays to complete. Friends wrote letters of recomendation. Some agencies require parenting classes. We had to prove we had jobs and how much we make. Lots of stuff had to be notarized. I understand that there are more steps involved in international adoption such as getting everthing translated. There is really no way to go though this without some forethought.

All of this is supposed to eliminate those with "less than impure motives" and even those with "less than pure motives."

Some families go extreme in celebrating their child's home country and some do very little. Some do make visits to home country. I'm on a list for adoptive parents of all types and a recent topic was 'giving back'. I was touched and surprised at how many send stuff to the orphanages where their child came from (even if there are no guarentees that it actually arrives.)

My daughter's adoption was domestic and relatively easy because we knew the birthparents. I've learned a lot about all kinds of adoptions from the various lists I'm on and from research. However, I feel like I should shut up and let the guy with acutal international adoption experience have a go.

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I just read (an out of date) article about another peril of international adoptions of formerly institutionalized children. Sometimes the children have a personality disorder from their experience in the orphanages and some of them end up being returned, either to their home country or to the foster care system where they were adopted. I think even living in an orphanage is better than being adopted and then having the adoption fail and be returned. [Frown]

Maybe China has also been experiencing an increase in disrupted adoptions and wants to make sure that once the children are adopted the parents have a good chance of being able to raise them.

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20000813melissa4.asp
http://www.adopting.org/adoptions/a-parents-guide-to-adoption-disruption-and-dissolution-part-1.html

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Rhiandmoi, the children who have the horrible attachment disorder issues are almost always from Eastern Europe and countries from the former USSR. All of the adoption research I did suggested that Chinese adoptees are not experiencing these problems.

Many Russian orphanages just leave infants alone in their cribs, lying in their own waste and ignored all day. They don't even put diapers on them, because that's the quickest way to get them potty-trained. There are too many infants and not enough workers. With nobody to pay attention to them, some of these children become incapable of loving and attaching with a normal parent-child bond later. Add to that the epidemic of fetal-alcohol issues in Russia and you end up with some serious complications once these kids get home. I'm not saying a Chinese orphanage is heaven for kids, but my understanding is that the kids receive at least the minimum care they need and drinking while pregnant is not as much of a problem.

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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
quote:
Originally posted by Buckleupp:
My friend who is in the process of adopting (hence my emotional and committed responses here) has her motivation in trying to rescue a girl from potential sex slavery or prostitution. I don't think there was any specific reason for her to eschew domestic adoption of a black child or an older foster child other than, her words, she felt "called" to adopt from China.[emphasis mine]

That might be the exact attitude that causes resentment from the other countries. I don't know about the Chinese, but if someone had the attitude of adopting a child from the US in order to save her from sinfully showing her ankles and looking men in the face, I'd be pretty cheesed off.
Surely human trafficking is a universal wrong?

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus:
With nobody to pay attention to them, some of these children become incapable of loving and attaching with a normal parent-child bond later. Add to that the epidemic of fetal-alcohol issues in Russia and you end up with some serious complications once these kids get home. I'm not saying a Chinese orphanage is heaven for kids, but my understanding is that the kids receive at least the minimum care they need and drinking while pregnant is not as much of a problem.

I agree with your assessment of the Eastern European orphanage problem (a friend of mine who is an aid worker was asked by Romanian orphanage workers not to pick the babies up, many of whom were crippled because of lack of exercise, because that would just make them "want it all the time"), but I'm not so sure about how well China is caring for its orphans. Did you see the article I linked? When up to 72% of newborns are dying in the first year within the system, they can't be getting the minimum of care they need, either.

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Little Pink Pill:
Surely human trafficking is a universal wrong?

Whether it is or is not is not really the subject. My point was that the idea that a girl baby that was not adopted by would either be a sex-slave or prostitute and would need to be saved from her horrible culture might be a bit insulting to the home country.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
quote:
Originally posted by Little Pink Pill:
Surely human trafficking is a universal wrong?

Whether it is or is not is not really the subject. My point was that the idea that a girl baby that was not adopted by would either be a sex-slave or prostitute and would need to be saved from her horrible culture might be a bit insulting to the home country.
In some countries, it might also be a likely fate for an unwanted girl child.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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erinker74
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
quote:
Originally posted by erinker74:
This discussion reminds me of the little "experiment" my Sociology 101 professor visited upon us in college, and I am sure many of you are aware of it. We were put in groups of four people and told that it was 200 years in the future. The population had gotten so out of control that you now had to have a license to get pregnant. We (the group of four) were given the task of assigning only four "babies" to six potential couples. We were given no names; only stats. Which two couples would we deny a baby? Three of them were exemplary couples, two were below average, and one was just horrible. Across the board, everyone denied a baby to the "horrible" couple, and the other denied couple was spread evenly among the two "below average" couples. Now here come the punchline: The "horrible" couple that was unilaterally denied was Abraham and Mary Lincoln (what a nut case they were!) I believe Mozart and Ben Franklin were the patriarchs of the "below-average" couple. Hitler and Eva Braun were one of the "exemplary" couples.

I am not sure how that applies other than to illustrate the sometimes impossible task of identifying greatness or decent parenting by statistics alone.

Do all Sociology professors steal experiments from chain emails?
Well, it was 14 years ago so I don't think email was wide spread then.

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"I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair,
you still hit those brakes. Hey, better try the emergency brake." -Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

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pob14
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
But, at the same time there are plenty of children who need adopted in the U.S. and dozens of other countries in the world (many of whom are worse off than China) and I cannot help but feel that those who are going after the Chinese children may have less than impure motives. Whether it be because it is the fad thing to do or they want to "Save" some heathens/infidels or what... A really vague reason like they were "called" to do so would make me highly suspicious and I think the person needs to do some real soul searching and consider whether they are doing this for the good of a child or themselves. Especially when it comes at the price of abandoning another child who could have used a parent.

And how serious is the person really taking it? Are they choosing to become fluent in Chinese and are they willing to celebrate the various Chinese festivals? Are they prepared to make some trips to China later in life so that the child can get in touch with the land their ancestors came from? Or do they expect the child to be delivered to them ready to speak English and be Americanized and never think or see China or the Chinese as an evil communist empire again?

If you don't like China's rules, adopt elsewhere.

We've adopted from China twice. (Mr. Fed, maybe it's a lawyer thing!) Maybe it would be helpful to post some of our thoughts.

When we first decided to adopt, we went to Barnes and Noble and looked for some books about the whole process. My wife picked up a book about international adoption and said, "Well, we're SURE we don't want to do this!"

Oops.

We went to an informational meeting about US adoptions at an agency. We were told that the process involved putting together a portfolio of information and photos of ourselves, essentially a sales brochure for us as potential parents, which would then be shopped around to birthmothers who would pick us, or not. We were also told of one family that was chosen by a birthmother, who changed her mind after giving birth.

This happened to them four times.

End of private agency adoption discussion.

Agencies are reluctant to place older children with childless couples, with good reason, and we were involved in the process at the very height of the controversy about placing nonwhite children (which we, obviously, would have happily accepted) with white parents. White babies, of course, were easily placed and therefore were not easily available.

Against this, the China program, which offered us

1) the chance to parent a child from the baby stage on,
2) the certainty of a child, whose birthparents' rights had already been terminated,
3) a girl, which we wanted (sorry for the flash of selfishness there, but I'm thinking not all bio-parents are entirely selfless either [Big Grin] ),
4) the chance to connect to the Pacific Rim, to which my wife had traveled before, and
5) the ability to adopt at all, because we were both pushing 40, and that's old for most programs.

Certainly there was no "rescuing the infidel" about it.

But I'll say this:

On the first trip, when we got our oldest as a baby, they brought the babies into a big room and, well, passed them out. [Big Grin] Chaos, of course; babies crying, new parents crying, CCAA people trying to keep order, whatnot. Peeking in from the hallway was a group of older kids, maybe five or six of them, say 6-10 years old. I noticed them and nodded hello. They came up to me, and one of the boys said, "Hello, what your name?" I answered, "Patrick, what's yours?" All of them told me; every one had a Western name: Ann, Johnny, whatever they were. You could just see the combination of joy for the babies and despair for their own prospects in their eyes. They started to leave, and I turned to go, when the smallest boy came back to me, and pulled on my sleeve.

"MICHAEL!" he shouted, and ran back to join the others. I never knew if he just came up with that, if somebody suggested an Anglo name to him, or if he just got up the guts to talk to me. And damned if that isn't my dead brother's name, and my middle name.

I knew then and there we were going back for an older child. Which we did, a couple of years later.

Hope this helps somebody understand the thought process.

ETA re the second paragraph quoted: Our kids are Chinese. They know that when they look in the mirror. We have tons of Chinese books, and if you see me in February, the first thing I'll say to you is "Gong hey fat choy." And we'll certainly go back someday. I've always joked with friends of Irish descent that I want to get the kids T-shirts that say: "Chinese by birth, American by adoption, and Irish by the grace of God." I need to get around to that by this St. Pat's Day.

Thanks again for reading.

--------------------
Patrick

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Aud
We Three Blings


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I love the idea for a t-shirt. Tons of people kept asking us if we were adopting from China. In San Francisco's Chinatown we bought our very pale, red headed daughter a little outfit. It's green silk with embroidery and should fit her by St. Patrick's day. We'll balance each other out.

Every successful adoption story makes me so happy I cry.

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Aud
We Three Blings


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There was a somewhat more detailed article on this topic in the Wall Street Journal today. They contradicted some of what was said in the OP article. For one thing the WSJ article suggested that there will be fewer children to adopt from China because their birth rate is dropping and there isn't as much social pressure against girls.

They also pointed out how unclear these new rules are.

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