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Author Topic: Obese people to be told they're obese...
Paulie Jay
O Little Down-Payment of Bethlehem


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I think the point is: who gets access to that technology?

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All the way with Paulie Jay

Posts: 476 | From: Sydney, NSW, Australia | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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This has come up before, but yes, the USA does have some of the best medical expertise and technology in the world at its disposal.. The catch is you have to be able to afford it.

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"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:
Originally posted by Em:
It may say something about your health care technology, but it says nothing about the health care system.

If you prefer to use leeches, or to have your local shamaness shake her rattle over you to drive away the demons, go right ahead.
I do believe you're saying that because it's not U.S. health care, it's primitive. I daresay there are many snopesters in other countries that could attest to having great health care without ever stepping foot into the United States.

I have no respect for a health care system that's worried about only those who can pay for the best care, whether they're a citizen or not. You can say what you like, but a country where complete health care is determined by what economic level you are is by no means a 'land of opportunity.'

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My blog

Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:
Originally posted by Em:
It may say something about your health care technology, but it says nothing about the health care system.

If you prefer to use leeches, or to have your local shamaness shake her rattle over you to drive away the demons, go right ahead.
We're actually quite fortunate here. Last year we had a charity drive, and we raised over £5 to buy a scalpel for the local hospital. The leeches have been set free.

Life must be rough in the Scandinavian countries though with 120% taxation. You hand over everything you earn and have to find another fifth of that on top? [Eek!]

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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You've got a scalpel? We're making do with two old Stanley knives and a piece of sandpaper to get rid of the worst of the rust over here.

Edited because due to recent advances in government spending, I get to use actual capital letters when discussing health care these days.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Well, many of the sawbones didn't take well at first to the scalpel, never having seen one before, but they are adapting. The other sad thing is that last time I was at the hospital I saw the shameness sitting in the canteen sulking and feeling unwanted.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Paulie Jay
O Little Down-Payment of Bethlehem


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Hmph! We don't get government subsidised capital letters here in Sydney...

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All the way with Paulie Jay

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Paulie Jay:
Hmph! We don't get government subsidised capital letters here in Sydney...

It'll be those fat cats in Canberra, hogging the resources.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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quiltsbypam
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
Well, many of the sawbones didn't take well at first to the scalpel, never having seen one before, but they are adapting. The other sad thing is that last time I was at the hospital I saw the shameness sitting in the canteen sulking and feeling unwanted.

Just don't let her start eating cookies to drown her sorrow. She'll get fat and then where will she be?

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"No Biblical hell could ever be worse than the state of perpetual inconsequence." Beatrice in Dangerous Beauty

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christmas tree kitapper
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by quiltsbypam:
quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
Well, many of the sawbones didn't take well at first to the scalpel, never having seen one before, but they are adapting. The other sad thing is that last time I was at the hospital I saw the shameness sitting in the canteen sulking and feeling unwanted.

Just don't let her start eating cookies to drown her sorrow. She'll get fat and then where will she be?
No, no; she'll be fine if she's fat as long as she never enters a store.

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"I have never in my life been more disappointed by a politician I voted for than I have been with George Bush. He is a total liberal."- overheard by me on the shuttle to the U of A game on Nov. 11th.

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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Buckleupp:
If we continue to multiply the argument that the government can control your health decisions because of the drain on public healthcare funds, then we are getting into a very scary area. I'm sure this argument has been made before, but if you say that fat people don't deserve health care or should be punished for using it more, then you get into all sorts of personal decisions being taken away from everyone.

It happened to my aunt in Scotland. She is morbidly obese and has very high blood pressure. The doctor actually told her that the government wouldn't pay for blood pressure meds for her until she lost some weight, and sent her away.

I'm sure it was an individual rather than institutional decision on his part and she could probably go to someone else, but she feels utterly hopeless now and has gained even more since. Shame doesn't inspire, hope does.

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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Dieter Meyer
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
Life must be rough in the Scandinavian countries though with 120% taxation. You hand over everything you earn and have to find another fifth of that on top? [Eek!]

Last year I had to mug two hobos in order to pay my taxes [Embarrassed]

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"Soyons désinvoltes; n'ayons l'air de rien" - Noir Désir

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strange_little_girl
The First USA Noel


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quote:
It happened to my aunt in Scotland. She is morbidly obese and has very high blood pressure. The doctor actually told her that the government wouldn't pay for blood pressure meds for her until she lost some weight, and sent her away.

I'm sorry but I find this very hard to believe. Untreated blood pressure is dangerous, the doctor would be at risk of being struck off for that. I have heard of people being denied surgery such a knee replacements or fertility treatment if they are obese due to the poor success rates.

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I tried to get in touch with my inner child, but she isn't allowed to talk
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Rob D / Blackwolf, the yule dodo
Deck the Malls


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quote:
And about that article, it's always annoyed me when I see articles or news reports about obesity and they show closeups of people's asses. I would be so pissed if I saw my ass on one of these.
I myself am obese... I'm 6', 33 years old and my weight is 250lbs (I lost 20lbs in a few months after starting my job at the hospital, now I'm stuck, and I blame the hospital for serving good food in the cafeteria). According to a table I saw, my weight should be 180lbs, and even that would be borderline. But guess what: I have a fat tubgut, but my legs are heavy with muscle (maybe from hauling all that fat around), and my arse is big but firm. My fault: I dont excercise, and eat too much, especially of the tasty ... erm... bad kind, but I'm trying to cut down on pop. Being a cokeholic its not easy but I found that I can stand a certain Coke spinoff (I hate Diet Coke though).
And so far, I was sick the last year for three days when I had a cold.

Luckily the doctor I went before switching to a nearer one is obese too, so he said "I'm not telling you anything about your weight, as I am fat myself."
My current one is skinny but said nothing about it. Of course, I just went to him once, to get added to his patients list, so he can transfer me to an urologist to get my cables cut.

But if I would go into a store and the clerk would come to me and tell me I am too fat, I'd take a good look at him, to make sure he is not fat himself, but most of all I would tell him: "I might be fat and can loose weight, but you just lost a bunch of customers who won't come back."

quote:
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I don't know where you live, but here I know of clinics here run by private charities where those without the means to consult a for-profit provider may speak to a physician or a nurse-pratitioner at no charge (although those who can afford to contribute something are asked to do so.) [/QB]
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So our hypothetical poor person has seen a phyiscian for free. Following diagnosis, the physician decides the treatment is a $10,000 operation, or a course of expensive drugs. Does the charity cover that as well?

Non profit hospitals like the Fairfield Medical Center (yes, shameless plug for my workplace) do indeed perform necessary health services for free for those who cannot pay. Thats why they ARE non-profit organizations, they have to help, not matter if they lose money. Of course, they will try to get the payment, but its mostly surgery first, getting the money (if at all) later.

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~Reality, the refuge of those who fail in RPGs~
aka Darkfist Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by strange_little_girl:
I'm sorry but I find this very hard to believe. Untreated blood pressure is dangerous, the doctor would be at risk of being struck off for that. I have heard of people being denied surgery such a knee replacements or fertility treatment if they are obese due to the poor success rates.

I don't know what to tell you. Either I'm a liar, my aunt is, or there are random nasty/foolish doctors in countries everywhere.

He did "treat" her by telling her to go on a diet, and I think he may have told her to go get herself some diuretics. But, AFAIK, he did deny her a government subsidized prescription until she did something to help herself.

She lives on Cadburys and, in spite of being obese, eats so poorly she is actually malnurished. She is an extreme case as well as a foreigner entitled to social medicine in a poor area. I can, in some ways, see where the Dr is coming from in his argument, though his method is obviously ridiculous.

As I said, I firmly believe it was an individual, not institutional case. I was merely bringing it up as an example of the sort of logic Buckleupp mentioned taken to an extreme.

But IMO denying someone knee replacement surgery is pretty lousy as well. "Sorry, lose weight or stay a cripple." And how, exactly, is someone supposed to lose weight when they can barely walk?

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
quote:
Originally posted by Nicki:
"...35in (88cm) for women, and 31in (80cm) for girls."

They want to put label in those sizes?!?!? 35in approx size 11/12 (I know, that's me) and I would guess 31in would be 9/10. That's not obese. A but chunky maybe but to call it obese is crazy.

Not that putting it on any lable is right. The whole thing is stupid. And they wonder why there are so many women with eating disorders. Not only women anymore but men too.

So should I point out other people flaws? How rediculous.

I don't think putting a notice on the label will do anything, but 35" waist corresponds to about a size 16-18 US. A size 12 is a 30ish inch waist.
And that is a great deal of the time a long ways from obese. That's just about where I am, and while I don't look like Miss USA, I also still get enough lingering glances that I'm pretty sure I'm not obese; or if I am, a lot of guys like obese chicks.

30 inches MIGHT indicate a BMI getting into the risky range, but you know, a 30 inch waist on a large boned, 5 foot 11 girl with a 38 inch bust and hips is not the same as a four foot 11 girl with a small frame and basically what I'm saying here is that I agree this is just a bunch of ridiculous posturing and of no practical value or help to anyone who is overweight.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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I can't remember why I put this together, but here it is:

 -

The width of the figure is the same in each picture while the height has been stretched or compressed. In theory, this should mean that they are all about the same size dress size, but when you compare the short end to the tall end, they have different body types. It would be useless telling the short woman to put on weight just because the tall woman looks too thin, just as it would be useless to tell a tall person to lose weight because they're the same size as someone shorter.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Are.. Are you suggesting fat people cut off their arms?!

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"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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[lol] It would make finding the right sleeve length easier for tall people.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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Brillo Bee
Wii Three Kings


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What I'm wondering is, if store clerks are required to tell me I'm obese-- how many times in a single day do I have to listen to it before I can plead insanity if I kill someone? Many flaws with the plan have been pointed out already in this thread, but the one I can't shake-- I often visit several stores in the course of a shopping trip. Could I get a stamp on my hand or something with the first obesity warning, or if I get one warning am I expected to not shop anymore until I lose some weight? Yikes-- this might be the most offensive plan I've heard, but also one of the plans that sounds least effective. As others have said, obese people are told that it is wrong and shameful to be obese in a million little ways in our daily lives. I don't need the government to require anyone to tell me this, unless it's my doctor.

And I can't help seconding (thirding) the comments others have made about not being able to tell at a glance how unhealthy someone is, their weight trajectory, or their ability to change their weight.

I like some of Mickey Blue's suggestions-- improve education and make healthy lifestyles easier and more affordable.

quote:
Originally posted by Flaming June:
Don't test me while I am still big enough to squish you.

YOMANK!

Bee

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People do not wish to appear foolish; to avoid the appearance of foolishness, they are willing to remain actually fools. -Alice Walker

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:


The fact that people come from all over the world for treatment in the US--including foreign heads of state and members of royal families--and that most of the cutting-edge pharmaceutical agents are developed by US companies says something about our health care system.

Yes, it means you have to be a prince to get decent healthcare in the US. Meanwhile, US insurance companies are sending their clients to India for surgical procedures.

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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