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Author Topic: Obese people to be told they're obese...
Hubert Cumberdale
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I'm sure I'm not the only one who has some very bad experiences from being overweight during childhood. A stranger coming up to me and telling me I was fat would cause me to tell them to F off at best.

To say all obese people are unhealthy is just stupid. I'm actually very healthy. I only get sick once a year at most. I'm 30 and I had my first physical since I was 17 this year. I was afraid the doctor would find all kinds of problems but the only thing he found was that I was overweight. Everything else tested fine. Maybe I'm just an anomoly.

And about that article, it's always annoyed me when I see articles or news reports about obesity and they show closeups of people's asses. I would be so pissed if I saw my ass on one of these.

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MaxKaladin
The First USA Noel


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One problem with putting labels in so-called "obesity clothes" is that some people are just big. I'm fat now, but in high school I was 6'2" and weighed ~185#. My parents had to start taking me to specialty stores to buy clothes because everything I wore was a size or two larger than what the normal stores carried. I needed 2XL shirts in a time when most stores stopped at XL. I needed 40 to 42 inch waist jeans (depending on brand) when most stores stopped at 38. I needed size 13 or 14 shoes when most stores stopped at 12 and I needed a wide width. Stores have started carrying larger now, but back then it was pretty rare and I'm sure some would insist they're only carrying larger clothes because so many people are overweight. The thing is that I was tall and thin, not fat. Everything was in proportion, but "oversize".

Then again, I have a problem with the way obesity is defined. I remember seeing a chart in a doctors office that indicated I was overweight in high school. Sorry, but no. I worked outside a lot, swam, hunted and often did manual labor in my father's business. I had muscles, not fat. Good thing I looked at the "heavy frame" column. If I'd used the column for average frame, I think I'd have been obese. Judging from the charts I've seen, it's virtually impossible to be the "proper" weight. No wonder there's such an "epidemic".

I freely admit I'm obese now and it isn't a misdiagnosis but I think there is a problem with labeling people as obese when they're not because of arbitrary standards people set which have no bearing on the individual in question.

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MaxKaladin
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by SweetViolet:
Instead of a consultation with a professional who could have advised me to shed some pounds and than give me some specific information on how to do that (like a referral to a nutritionist, a letter to my insurance carrier saying dieting assistance was medically necessary, etc.) he spent the ENTIRE consultation period screaming and berating me about my weight.

I once went to a doctor about a sore throat and he asked me out of the blue if I'd ever considered doing something about losing weight. I cautiously answered "yes" and he ordered me to become a vegetarian. He got pretty rude about it and continually insisted that was the only way I'd ever lose weight. He never screamed, but he had this contemptuous dismissive tone the whole time. In fact, I've had a lot of trouble finding a doctor who I could actually have a civilized conversation about my weight with.
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Bramble Silvertree
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Going back to the whole issue of store clerks not having a detailed medical history. How do you know said chunky person didn't just get back from the doctor or nutritionist's office, hasn't lost the first 30 lbs, and isn't working on the rest? Maybe their at that store to buy new pants just a little too small that leave room to shrink. My DH is a big guy, very healthy aside from his weight, but is trying to lose some weight to prevent it from declining. He's gone down a full pant size in the last 6 months, and gained a lot of muscle mass. People still look at him like he's just another lazy fat guy. [Mad]

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"Tout le monde est fou, sauf vous et moi."

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Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I always thought a more passive, and potentially more effective, means of combating obesity would be to quantify foods as either "bad, neutral, good" (I'd leave the classifying up to experts). Bad foods would have a small tax placed on them, that money would be used to subsidize (is that the right word) the "good" section so they were cheaper, neutral would be left alone.. Thus, good food would be cheaper, bad food would be more expensive, and neutral would be the same.

Somebody mentioned it, but healthy food seems to almost always be more expensive then bad, making it more difficult for some to eat healthy, even if they want to, this would help to not only alleviate that, but actually make it economical to eat healthy.


Also I think, going back to schools (as many problems start in childhood) we should scrap our useless "gym" programs (in the USA at least) and instead have physical fitness/healthy lifestyle classes, basically they should focus on teaching kids to play/engage in physical activities (sports, working out properly, etc). Gym right now is like lord of the flies for many kids (and its gotta be worse for fat kids) where as this would actually teach them to play the sports, and teach them how to work out (what kind of goals to set, how to use the machines, etc). The flip side would be what different foods/ingrediants do to/for you, and how to eaty healthy. Most people can tell you salad is good and bacon is bad, but can all of them tell you sodium is bad and why? What about white bread? Orange Juice? Can they tell you what the difference is between saturdated and unsaturdated fat is? Maybe, maybe not, but they should learn it.

There are of course a million other things that could be done too of course, but these would be two good and easy to implament (and cheap or free) programs and would be a good start.


I can tell you one thing, if telling fat people "Hey.. Your fat.. Thin up" made them do it there would be no fat people, I assure you they've heard it (both in a mean way and no doubt in a kind way).


I also think there should be more done to make gyms seem friendlier.. I say seem because often, in my experiance, they are.. I am not fat, but I was weak as a five year old (well maybe not that weak) a little ways back and was very intimiated of going to the weight room cause guys in there were huge.. But I found, after cowboying up, as it were, that they didn't care, heck many were helpful in suggesting ways to work out and providing encourogement, I figure its probobly the same for overweight people (to be fair I don't *know* and it could differ based on the gym).

Anyways, I'll stop rambling.

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"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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Artemis
The First USA Noel


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Reminds me of the Troy McClure instructional video..."Get confident, stupid!"

Honestly, is there anyone who'd actually have the gall to go up to an obese person and start haranging them? I'd be mortified if my employer told me to do that. I can't imagine that it would do anything but drive down business at such a store.

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"You can't play Electro-magnetic Golf according to the rules of Centrifugal Bumble Puppy."
-Mustapha Mond, "Brave New World"

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ica171
Deck the Malls


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To me, that article basically said "we're going to use peer pressure to shame people into losing weight without any real knowledge about their individual situation." To add to the "you don't know the medical history of each person" point that has been made, I'm currently at my highest weight in two or three years. Why? Because I just gave birth three months ago. However, as Bramble Silvertree pointed out, you wouldn't know that just to look at me.

quote:
Originally posted by Hubert Cumberdale:

And about that article, it's always annoyed me when I see articles or news reports about obesity and they show closeups of people's asses. I would be so pissed if I saw my ass on one of these.

I completely agree. I always wonder if the people who do get their asses videotaped ever write in to whomever is airing the program and complain.

And how, exactly, are salespeople supposed to point this out to people? "Hello, sir/ma'am, welcome to Acme Clothing. May I just point out that you are morbidly obese? Now I see you eyeing those pants over there. Would you like to try them on?"

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Buckleupp
Away in a Manager


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quote:
Originally posted by ica171:
I always wonder if the people who do get their asses videotaped ever write in to whomever is airing the program and complain.

I remarked once to my friend that if some network assbeanie used any portion of my big body on the air without my consent, especially to illustrate a point about obesity, I would sue them blue. My friend replied that it would not stand up in court, that the media has the right to use your image without your consent, as long as you can't be identified.

Anyone know if this is true?

Or, more importantly, how many people could identify me by my butt alone?

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HA! That's so funny I forgot to laugh...excluding that first Ha. -Stewie Griffin

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Blue:
and bacon is bad,

Bacon bad!?! I do not want to live in such a world!

Sorry. Ummm. Bacon makes me sentimental.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Oh hey, I've always said I'd vote for "bacon" as a presidential candidate over anybody I've seen from the past ten years.. That said it does have a darker side.

[hijack] Ever tried turkey bacon? A poor substitute for true bacon to be sure but pretty good and seems fairly good for you, or at least in comparison to true bacon. I've started making it a part of my breakfasts when I get that craving for bacon.[/hijack]

Mickey "I'm alot like that dog in the "beggin' strips" commercial" Blue

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"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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Flaming June
Deck the Malls


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I am currently overweight...but I also have lost 60 pounds over the course of a year and a half. I eat healthy foods, I exercise, I am by no means sedentary, I rarely drink, and I don't smoke. The problem is that you can't tell just by looking at me how healthy my habits are. So if people were coming up to me to tell me how unhealthy it is to be overweight -- well what, exactly, is that going to accomplish? What, exactly, am I supposed to change? Don't test me while I am still big enough to squish you.

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Metaphors be with you!

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Buckleupp:
quote:
Originally posted by ica171:
I always wonder if the people who do get their asses videotaped ever write in to whomever is airing the program and complain.

I remarked once to my friend that if some network assbeanie used any portion of my big body on the air without my consent, especially to illustrate a point about obesity, I would sue them blue. My friend replied that it would not stand up in court, that the media has the right to use your image without your consent, as long as you can't be identified.

Anyone know if this is true?

Or, more importantly, how many people could identify me by my butt alone?

If I was in a swimsuit, I could be IDed by my booty. I have a birthmark and a piece of graphite embedded in my thigh/butt.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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mags
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Snafu:
Overweight people know they're overweight, I don't think they need reminding when they're out shopping.

Oh, and believe me, overweight women get reminded when we're out shopping, even without snarky comments. Having to shop in special stores (or sections of stores) for our clothing is a pretty strong clue. Maybe the guys need some reminding, as my SO- who is at least as overweight as I am- can get nearly any of the mens' clothing in his size in the normal stores. They even carry waist sizes 4 or 6 inches bigger than his.

Heck, I started feeling "fat" right after I started puberty (when I was 14). I had been a very skinny little girl due to a heart problem and a natural inclination toward healthy foods. When I went from the pre-teen girls' section into adult clothing as I hit my growth spurt, I skipped right to a size 12. I was still by no means fat, but I thought I was enormous at 120 pounds because girls my age were "supposed" to be under 100 pounds (regardless of height, I guess- I was 5'8").

The worst was that, while still in high school, I had to get Queen Size pantyhose to have any that fit me without the crotch ending up at my knees over the course of the day. I never thought it was fair that the sizing was arranged such that at 5'8" I had to wear queen size at 140 lbs, but if I was 5'0", I could be 180 lbs or something, which would have been truly big. (I have noticed they seem to have changed this, at least not calling the larger sizes "Queen Size" anymore, just giving them a different letter)

When I was in college, I put on some more weight (still a healthy weight for my height) and started needing size 16 pants. I don't understand why, when supposedly half the population of women are size 14 or above, that many stores no longer want your money once you hit size 16. It was pretty weird, I'd go into a regular store and they'd sneer at my requests for size 16 (or at least it felt like it), but I'd go to one of the overweight specialty stores, and they'd look at me like I was crazy to be in there because I wasn't fat.

Then I put on 50 lbs in about 6 months, and I didn't have to worry about that any more [Razz]

I avoid going shopping in stores for clothes, because it is just so frustruating and belittling to see the small section of fat women clothes in most stores. Since I put on this weight, I've bought most of my clothes mail order. At least there is usually a decent selection.

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Bach_girl
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Loyhargil:
Holy crap! At my absolute comfortably thinnest, I'm a size 12! If I get smaller than that, I'm so bony I have trouble getting to sleep because I can feel my shoulderblades practically cutting into the sheets! But according to charts, my most comfortable weight is at the top range of, or even exceeds, what's considered "healthy."

That is because fof your height- which is not taken into consideration when looking only at a pant size. That is my whole problem with the whole "Size 12 is obese" argument.

If you are 6' tall and wear a size 12- you are not anywhere near obese.

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"My Very Educated Mother Just Said Uh-oh! No...Pluto..."~ Steven Colbert

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Snafu
Deck the Malls


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I know what it's like to be overweight.

About five years ago, Crocodile Dundee 1 and 2 played in a row - I spent about 3 hours (the length of both films) nodding my head because I had a double chin. I thought nodding would rid me of the second chin - it didn't.

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Snafu
Deck the Malls


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I was wrong (again).


MERRY CHRISTMAS!!


ETA: Drunk - egg-nog.

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Loyhargil
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Bach_girl:
quote:
Originally posted by Loyhargil:
Holy crap! At my absolute comfortably thinnest, I'm a size 12! If I get smaller than that, I'm so bony I have trouble getting to sleep because I can feel my shoulderblades practically cutting into the sheets! But according to charts, my most comfortable weight is at the top range of, or even exceeds, what's considered "healthy."

That is because fof your height- which is not taken into consideration when looking only at a pant size. That is my whole problem with the whole "Size 12 is obese" argument.

If you are 6' tall and wear a size 12- you are not anywhere near obese.

I meant it in relation to the recommended height/weight charts actually, I wasn't very clear. At my most comfortable weight (175-180), at 5'10, a lot of them (when I was in high school particularly, but even still today) considered me toward the outer-reaches of healthy, and some charts even put me over. Which I personally find ridiculous. I have wide hips, big boobs, very broad shoulders, and a big ribcage. You ain't carrying that kind of skeleton without some heft on it.

I even had one doctor in high school tell me (when I weighed I think about 175, been a long time so I'm struggling to remember) that the ideal weight was 5 pounds for every inch over 5 feet, meaning I should have weighed 150. You could have shred cheese on me, could I even survive on that low weight.

Back on topic, I can be a major stress eater. At one point in my life, during my first marriage, I weighed as much as 311. My first husband had my self-esteem so incredibly shattered at that point anyway, that if someone had come up to me in a store and told me to lose weight, I probably would have snapped.

Loyhar *lost 240 pounds of useless fat, then lost 135 pounds of weight* gil

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Bender: Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee.

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Snafu
Deck the Malls


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Are you happy now, Loyhargil?
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Tacitus
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Look at this from the opposite direction: who'd want to be the store employee who gets to tell the customers they're fat?

"Hi sir. Uh, I am required to tell you that you're a little, uh, obese, and..." *whack*

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Loyhargil
We Three Blings


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Because of the weight loss? It keeps my arthritis under control and I can be more physically active.

I'm definitely happy that first marriage is over. Something else I should have clarified (my brain's still at work, not entirely here) is that, were it not for my ex-husband dealing me daily helpings of my crap like, no one else would ever love me the way I looked so I should be happy to have him, among other happy thoughts ("for a supposedly smart woman, you say the stupidest things I've ever heard"), I don't think I would have had an issue with my looks because of the weight. As a matter of fact, after I left him (and my weight had only fallen to about 275) I felt downright pretty for the first time in years.

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Bender: Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee.

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Loyhargil
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Tacitus:
Look at this from the opposite direction: who'd want to be the store employee who gets to tell the customers they're fat?

"Hi sir. Uh, I am required to tell you that you're a little, uh, obese, and..." *whack*

I actually know people who love to insult others so much, they'd LOVE that job.

Overall, though.... damn, yeah, hadn't thought about it from that light. Not a fun position to be in at all.

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Bender: Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee.

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ChickyBee
Deck the Malls


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A salesperson can say whatever they want to me - provided I can return the favour and don't end up being kicked out of the store.

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So many people are hung up on achievements. What did you do today? What are you planning? Sometimes, just getting through the day is an achievement in itself.

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Maddie
Rejoice, Rejoice, I've Found the Manuel!


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And also, just think about if parents bring their kids into the store & a person comes up & tells the parent they're obese. Then the child's already getting "fat bad, anorexic good" pounded into their head at an early age. That'd be absolutely terrible.

I can't imagine how horrendous this could end up to be. A few comments about my weight made me lose 20 some lbs. in high school- I was 95-100 lbs. & healthy to begin with.

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"I'm sorry for your loss. Your mother was a terribly attractive woman." - Royal Tenenbaum

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Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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It really wouldn't matter if this was the best designed study in the world and if there was tangible evidence that hounding obese people about their weight would make them lose it, no business that wants to keep making money is gonna tell their clients that they are fat and they'd better drop the burger and hit the gym (or some equivalent).

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"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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evilrabbit
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Snafu:
quote:
So every time I see someone light up, heavy set, or drive like an idiot, I should point it out to them?
It's up to you.

When my friends are driving like idiots, I give them a mouthful. When my dad eats a grease-soaked pizza, I tell him it's wrecking his body. I'm a bit of a bastard to be around (as you can probably tell), but it doesn't necessarily make me wrong.

Would you say the same to a total stranger?

What else should we regulate (or at least, stigmatize)? To save the taxpayers money, of course.
Should we allow the government to moniter everyone's eating habits? Or at least, hire people to stand in restaurants and food courts saying "Eat a bloody vegetable!" Should we moniter everyone's exercise habits? What about drinking? Studies have shown that a certain amount of wine is beneficial to health, but I really don't like to drink. Should I force myself to down a glass or so a week, to avoid being a burden on the health care system?
What about hobbies and sports? Some activities are dangerous. Should we make rock climbing illegal? What about football? What about walking (could be hit by a car)? Should we have a mandatary daily meditation to reduce stress-related illnesses?

Some things are just none of your business.

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"My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich."
"Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?"
"Maybe."

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by evilrabbit:

Some things are just none of your business. [/QB]

In a country with socialized medicine, not so. "He who pays the piper may call the tune." If the government will be faced with higher costs because of widespread unhealthy lifestyle choices, the government has the right to protect itself from such liability. That, of course, is another arguement against socialized medicine.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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Steve
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:
Originally posted by evilrabbit:

Some things are just none of your business.

In a country with socialized medicine, not so. "He who pays the piper may call the tune." If the government will be faced with higher costs because of widespread unhealthy lifestyle choices, the government has the right to protect itself from such liability. That, of course, is another arguement against socialized medicine. [/QB]
The FDA already protects us from unhealthy choices, so no need to worry there. And that's OK with me. I just think that the poorest 40 million among us should be able to talk to a doctor without visiting a loan shark first.

I'm afraid this argument of yours against universal health care isn't any better than your claim that the British system is collapsing as we speak.

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
[/QB]

I just think that the poorest 40 million among us should be able to talk to a doctor without visiting a loan shark first. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I don't know where you live, but here I know of clinics here run by private charities where those without the means to consult a for-profit provider may speak to a physician or a nurse-pratitioner at no charge (although those who can afford to contribute something are asked to do so.)

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve:

I just think that the poorest 40 million among us should be able to talk to a doctor without visiting a loan shark first. [/QB]
quote:
I don't know where you live, but here I know of clinics here run by private charities where those without the means to consult a for-profit provider may speak to a physician or a nurse-pratitioner at no charge (although those who can afford to contribute something are asked to do so.) [/QB]
So our hypothetical poor person has seen a phyiscian for free. Following diagnosis, the physician decides the treatment is a $10,000 operation, or a course of expensive drugs. Does the charity cover that as well?

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

Posts: 997 | From: Maidstone, UK | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:

I just think that the poorest 40 million among us should be able to talk to a doctor without visiting a loan shark first. [/QB]
I don't know where you live, but here I know of clinics here run by private charities where those without the means to consult a for-profit provider may speak to a physician or a nurse-pratitioner at no charge (although those who can afford to contribute something are asked to do so.) [/QB][/QUOTE]Ah, taking everything literally, are we? You got me. Doctors talk to poor people. Loan sharks aren't always involved. More tragically, sometimes sacasm goes awry. My apologies.

But sometimes those poor people would like an operation as well as a chat with their proctologists. I'm curious if you think our current system of health care handles those cases well. I mean, really?

(Oh, and if we're getting all literal, then I'll have to point out that you do know where I live since it's right there next to the word "location". [Big Grin] ) ETA: D'oh, actually, the word "from" [dunce]

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Paulie Jay
O Little Down-Payment of Bethlehem


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As a worker you could not pay me enough to walk up to a customer and say "You know, your butt really does look big" no matter how true it was.

I do believe in a healthy lifestyle, and I'm always keen to help any person who wants to lose weight, but I'll be damned if I'd ever start pointing a finger at them.

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All the way with Paulie Jay

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
[But sometimes those poor people would like an operation as well as a chat with their proctologists. I'm curious if you think our current system of health care handles those cases well. I mean, really?

(Oh, and if we're getting all literal, then I'll have to point out that you do know where I live since it's right there next to the word "location". [Big Grin] ) [/QB]

New York is a big state. I don't know if you are in the City, or Buffalo, or Rochester, or some little town somewhere in the hinterlands.

As for surgery or other specialized care, if necessary it can be arranged, either by the clinic or through other eleemysonary agencies.

And no, I don't think our current system is perfect; I just haven't seen another that is significantly better. I've heard good things about the Scandinavian countries; however, I've heard of people in those countries being taxed at 120% or more of their income, and that seems to be a little too high a price to pay.

The fact that people come from all over the world for treatment in the US--including foreign heads of state and members of royal families--and that most of the cutting-edge pharmaceutical agents are developed by US companies says something about our health care system.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:

The fact that people come from all over the world for treatment in the US--including foreign heads of state and members of royal families--and that most of the cutting-edge pharmaceutical agents are developed by US companies says something about our health care system.

Yes it does. It just doesn't say anything about how that health care system treats the uninsured.
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Em
Happy Holly Days


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It may say something about your health care technology, but it says nothing about the health care system.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

Posts: 1646 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Em:
It may say something about your health care technology, but it says nothing about the health care system.

If you prefer to use leeches, or to have your local shamaness shake her rattle over you to drive away the demons, go right ahead.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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