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Author Topic: The Great Wealth Transfer
Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I don't think CEO's manage very many people directly. They probably each managae the same amount of people.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
Regarding the Wal*Mart/Costco comparison:

How much does Wal*Mart make a year? What about Costco? Do you see a difference? What about number of stores or numbers of employees?

This is comparing apples and bananas.

If I supervise one person I should get paid X. If you supervise 30, should you get paid the same? I don't think so! If I get promoted to now manage 1000 people, I had BETTER get paid more than you managing 30!

Ah, this "You make more than me, so it's unfair," crap just ticks me off.

I don't think the CEO of Wal*Mart's work is 3xx times more valuable than the average Wal*Mart employee.

As you can do sometimes, you're blowing a pretty good point with unwarranted hyperbole.

quote:
I used to get paid minimum wage.
I made way less ($0.08/pound of cherries picked, and those picked without a stem didn't count. I made $11 my first day).

But so?

quote:
I worked my adze off and worked another job so I could pay for schooling to get out of my situation. I have continued to work my behinder parts off to get ahead... and now that I am seeing some return for my investment, I find out that my fellow man - who wants me to get ahead - doesn't want me to get ahead of them.

Who might that be who is trying to prevent you from getting ahead of them?

quote:
Sorry, but I don't see a problem with uber-salaries. Golden parachutes, on the other hand, tend to burn my ass with white-hot flames. Golden parachutes should be golden only when company returns are golden - otherwise they should be lead parachutes. You take the company into the black, you should share in the spoils of war... but if you take us into the red, you bleed along with us.
I agree with you, but how do we, the average not-enough-stock-holding-to-have-voting-rights, affect that sort of change?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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That piece about the "laws of conservative economics" from Ben Who sounds very familiar to what you hear on any "conservative talk radio", especially when they talk about personal finances and how to preserve your wealth and enhance it.

Most of it falls under the category of "pat yourself on the back because you were born under a good star". The rich are that way because they deserve it. They work hard. And they invest in real estate and the stock market, because nobody ever lost money investing in either of those.

Personally, my "Plan A" for retirement is winning the lottery. "Plan B" is saving and investing roughly 13% of my before-tax income in a tax-sheltered investment for the next 30 years, and hope that there are no economic disasters that set me back. "Plan B" is more likely, though "Plan A" is preferred.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
That piece about the "laws of conservative economics" from Ben Who sounds very familiar to what you hear on any "conservative talk radio", especially when they talk about personal finances and how to preserve your wealth and enhance it.

Most of it falls under the category of "pat yourself on the back because you were born under a good star". The rich are that way because they deserve it. They work hard. And they invest in real estate and the stock market, because nobody ever lost money investing in either of those.

Personally, my "Plan A" for retirement is winning the lottery. "Plan B" is saving and investing roughly 13% of my before-tax income in a tax-sheltered investment for the next 30 years, and hope that there are no economic disasters that set me back. "Plan B" is more likely, though "Plan A" is preferred.

So how many Conservative talk shows do you listen to? I've heard plenty and I've never heard anyone say that. But feel free to point out a trascript or anything else not made of straw.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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TurquoiseGirl
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I've not heard it on conservative talk shows, personally, but I seem to know an inordinate number of trust fund kids (albeit grown up ones) who have much the same attitude that Hero_Mike is describing.

There is this attitude that there was some attribute of their parents (or grandparents) which allowed them to get ahead and that, along with a comfy lifestyle, the offspring have inherited that same trait, and thus, deserve all the wealth and that those who actually have to work for a living are clearly doing something wrong.

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There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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Beachlife, I'm not making an argument here - I'm repeating something that I've heard. It's not my "strawman", and since this isn't my philosophy or argument, I'd appreciate that you don't call this a "strawman" because it is a derogatory term referring to an argument. I'm not in favour of that point. I'm merely seconding that I've heard the same things that "Ben Who" mentioned - that rich people *deserve* to be rich, and poor people don't work hard enough.

Further to his comment about the homeless being there because they want to be, there was a national campaign about teenage homelessness here in Canada, a few years back. The tag line was "nobody chooses the street", which implies that there are no homeless who are rebellious youth, who prefer to live under a highway overpass because they weren't allowed to get a piercing, or that their parents made them clean their room and go to school. But because being homeless is a horrible thing, better to assume that there are nasty circumstances which forced those kids to be there. And not because they wanted to.

I hear bits of US talk radio when renting vehicles with satellite radio in the US. I can usually bear only about 15 minutes of it before I'm tired of the repetition. I usually rent domestic vehicles - I don't know (or care) if it is Sirius or XM.

In Canada, there's a lot of talk radio in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area). The same stories get repeated all the time. Buy bargain brands and invest the difference. Don't keep more than $20 cash on hand because you lose interest on it. Clip coupons and roll the savings into your RRSP (equiv. of a 401(k)). The stock market, over time, *always* makes money. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Doing all of that and working hard has no guarantee of the wealth or prosperity that these talking heads enjoy. Looking at their own educational credentials, they were mostly from privileged backgrounds themselves - attending private universities in the US, and not necessarily on scholarship.

If I sound bitter about this, I am. My co-workers are, by and large, hard-working, thrifty, and fiscally conservative. They save, invest, and track every penny. They got to be where they are because of a work ethic. All of them are "self made" - none had wealthy parents. But that is where it ends. Many have provided a private school education for their own children, and have sufficient money saved up to fund any post-secondary educational option for their own children. By and large, the children have squandered it. Only two (of about 10) are in grad school - the others are a long list of dropouts and underachievers, who spent a few years "touring the faculties" of the university before they found a major they liked. The two successful ones are female too - coincidence perhaps? Well, perhaps not, because in all honesty, the academic world (especially technical fields) demand more of women than they do of men. And these other guys, well, none of them will ever be as successful as their parents, and it has nothing to do with their level of education. They lack ambition. They don't lack money. Not quite the trust-fund set, but my boss' son is now 3 years post-secondary, dropped out of university and into community college, works no summer job, and wants for nothing. No doubt that his parents love him dearly, but I would guess that his attitude is that he's working hard enough.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
. . . I'm merely seconding that I've heard the same things that "Ben Who" mentioned - that rich people *deserve* to be rich, and poor people don't work hard enough.

You can hear it clearly in the discussion about taxes. When anyone proposes raising the taxes that the rich pay, conservatives start asking, "Why should we penalize our best and most productive citizens?"

Silas

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Rhiandmoi, depending upon the CEO, they manage about the same as any other manager... but what is different is the number of layers beneath them. I might manage 10 people, but my supervisor manages 10 people just like me... and his supervisor manages 10 people just like him... up to the CEO.

AnglRdr, the CEO is MUCH more valuable than Joe Employee. If Joe Employee screws up, the realm of influence is VERY small - perhaps some prices get mislabeled or stock isn't put in place. If the CEO screws up, the entire company many fold. Big difference, isn't it? The sphere of influence is MUCH bigger - so the CEO gets paid more.

Liberals (many here on this board) don't want me to get ahead. As I push myself to get higher into the ranks of the middle class, folks like these libs want me to pay more and more for doing more and more work. The more I make, the more they want me to give, not considering what I might want - or not want - to give. But, of course, as libs make more money, their tunes begin to change... at least as far as it comes to their own pockets...

Personally, I am a big proponent of the flat tax, but that's fodder for another thread...

The reason I brought up my making minimum wage was to show a baseline for work history. I didn't start making the money I do now, though some folks want to cover anyone with more money than they have as having been "born" into it.

If people put enough pressure on companies, the boards of directors will be more likely to limit the amount in parachute packages. When there is a large enough upwell of negative opinion, companies will change.

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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Damian
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
I don't think the CEO of Wal*Mart's work is 3xx times more valuable than the average Wal*Mart employee.

Obviously the people that pay those wages do. That is the beauty of living in a free market economy.

--------------------
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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How many times have we heard this boring story?

1. Grew up during the Depression.
2. Worked after school to help make ends meet.
3. Played high school sports.
4. Graduated high school.
5. Went to college.
6. Worked odd jobs & joined ROTC to help pay for college.
7. Joined fraternities at college to make social contacts.
8. Fulfilled military obligation.
9. Saved some money, got a small loan, bought a small business.

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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
Rhiandmoi, depending upon the CEO, they manage about the same as any other manager... but what is different is the number of layers beneath them. I might manage 10 people, but my supervisor manages 10 people just like me... and his supervisor manages 10 people just like him... up to the CEO.

AnglRdr, the CEO is MUCH more valuable than Joe Employee. If Joe Employee screws up, the realm of influence is VERY small - perhaps some prices get mislabeled or stock isn't put in place. If the CEO screws up, the entire company many fold. Big difference, isn't it? The sphere of influence is MUCH bigger - so the CEO gets paid more.


300 times more valuable? I doubt it.

quote:
Liberals (many here on this board) don't want me to get ahead.

Bullshit. Pure, utter, unadulterated bullshit. *This* liberal is trying to get you and every other member of the armed forces, *more*.
quote:
As I push myself to get higher into the ranks of the middle class, folks like these libs want me to pay more and more for doing more and more work. The more I make, the more they want me to give, not considering what I might want - or not want - to give. But, of course, as libs make more money, their tunes begin to change... at least as far as it comes to their own pockets...

[Roll Eyes]

quote:
Personally, I am a big proponent of the flat tax, but that's fodder for another thread...

There is no such thing as a flat tax.

quote:
The reason I brought up my making minimum wage was to show a baseline for work history. I didn't start making the money I do now, though some folks want to cover anyone with more money than they have as having been "born" into it.

You're not making that much money now, Malruhn, so I'm not sure where you think you fit into discussions about the wealthy.

quote:
If people put enough pressure on companies, the boards of directors will be more likely to limit the amount in parachute packages. When there is a large enough upwell of negative opinion, companies will change.
How, though? Through boycotts?

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Hoitoider,

what does that timeline have to do with this thread? Seriously, I'm asking.

Are we going to use the rail and steel barons as examples of contemporary wage earners in today's economy as well?

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
Regarding the Wal*Mart/Costco comparison:

How much does Wal*Mart make a year? What about Costco? Do you see a difference?

Well, if you look at earnings per share, almost the same

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:

Liberals (many here on this board) don't want me to get ahead.

You're right. We want to eat your liver and those of your children as well. But only after you have been force-fed for a few months to make it nice and fatty.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Damian
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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The difference between the "Haves" and the "Have-Nots" is that the "Have-Nots" would be happy to change places.

--------------------
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I did a little bit of goofing around with an inflation calculator, and if they are right Sam Walton got a lot more than a small loan. He also saved quite a lot of money.
His $5000 that he saved would be $50Kish in today's dollars, but even more amazing than that the $20K that his FIL lent him would be $200K in today's dollars. So maybe you don't need to be born into money, marrying into it works too. [Wink]

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I guess I don't understand something. Is there no relationship between effort and rewards. Any given person who puts in more effort will just as likely be rewarded with less as more? And anyone who puts less work has the same chances of getting more as the person who puts in more effort?

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
I guess I don't understand something. Is there no relationship between effort and rewards. Any given person who puts in more effort will just as likely be rewarded with less as more? And anyone who puts less work has the same chances of getting more as the person who puts in more effort?

It's not always a simple direct relationship between effort and rewards. Other factors are involved.

Have you really never known anyone who worked hard and wasn't rewarded accordingly? Have you really never known anyone who had rewards fall into their lap with little or no effort?

The message that everything in one's life is within one's control is just as false and dangerous, IMO, as the message that everything in one's life is beyond one's control.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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You're assuming everybody's starting from the same place, Beach.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Damian
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
I guess I don't understand something. Is there no relationship between effort and rewards. Any given person who puts in more effort will just as likely be rewarded with less as more? And anyone who puts less work has the same chances of getting more as the person who puts in more effort?

Sounds like Communism, and we all know how well that worked out.

--------------------
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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Fusca 1976
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
If I supervise one person I should get paid X. If you supervise 30, should you get paid the same? I don't think so! If I get promoted to now manage 1000 people, I had BETTER get paid more than you managing 30!

Sure. What should be the mathemathical function, though? Certainly it can´t a function such that if someone supervises no one, then the wage must be also zero. Otherwise, we would be advocating slavery, isn´t it?

Luís Henrique

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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The correlation between working harder and more rewards may exist at its most basic level, but isn't always even. Let me give an example from my personal life.

My employer requires me to travel down to South America for a week long trip. I work as a consulting engineer, and we bill our clients by the hour, like lawyers. The more we work, the more we charge. The more we charge, the more we get paid. My employer pays me time-and-a-half for anything over 7.5 hours per day, and all day on weekends. (It gets better for some - some of our competitors charge their clients - and pay their employees - double time on Sundays.)

One week of seven consecutive 12-hour days, by that reckoning, earns me slightly more than an extra two weeks pay. On top of that, working overtime gets additional credit for our year-end bonus. In short, there's a big, immediate, and direct reward from my additional efforts.

Two of my uncles work as production managers in the automotive business, as salaried, non-union employees. I have other friends who work in academia, or as salaried supervisors in manufacturing, or even as engineers for companies in the computer industry. Should they work just that one week of 12-hour days, they get nothing more than their normal pay. Zip. Zilch. Zero. No banked time off. No overtime pay. No *direct* compensation. True, there might be some bonus or nebulous "attaboy" reward for this, but no direct quid-pro-quo.

Can I say that their extra effort or hard work produces the same rewards as mine? No, I can't say that it's true. I guess I can feel good that I'm the one who gets the bigger rewards, but what recourse do they have? Not everyone works in the same industry as me. Not everyone wants to travel as much as (or where) I do. But many people are often asked to put in those extra hours. They miss their family, their dinner, their friends, their dog, their CSI reruns, etc. Even if you consider that the value of a person's time may vary, more work should equal more pay. But it doesn't, and a huge number of people work in this fashion.

So tell me, Beachlife, are these people who put in more effort, just as likely to be rewarded as someone else who does the same elsewhere? Or more importantly, to the person who doesn't put in that extra time?

--------------------
"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Fusca 1976
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
The difference between the "Haves" and the "Have-Nots" is that the "Have-Nots" would be happy to change places.

While the Haves will tell us endlessly how hard it is to be a Have, how unbearable the responsibility is, etc. But won´t voluntarily get rid of their golden chains...

Luís Henrique

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Fusca 1976
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
AnglRdr, the CEO is MUCH more valuable than Joe Employee. If Joe Employee screws up, the realm of influence is VERY small - perhaps some prices get mislabeled or stock isn't put in place. If the CEO screws up, the entire company many fold. Big difference, isn't it? The sphere of influence is MUCH bigger - so the CEO gets paid more.

But, curiously, when the CEO screws up, Joe Employee gets fired, while the CEO goes on vacations, writes a book about management, or gets a new job on a bigger company...

... or perhaps the three things, not necessarily in the same order.

Luís Henrique

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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
Hoitoider,

what does that timeline have to do with this thread? Seriously, I'm asking.

How many times has Wal-Mart been mentioned in this thread? Personally I don't shop at Wal-Mart & could care less about it but it always comes up in these threads, as if Wal-Mart stores just dropped out of the sky.

--------------------
No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I don't think anyone is saying they dropped out of the sky. Just that that the pay structure at Wal-Mart contributes to the divide between the haves and the have-nots.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by hoitoider:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
Hoitoider,

what does that timeline have to do with this thread? Seriously, I'm asking.

How many times has Wal-Mart been mentioned in this thread? Personally I don't shop at Wal-Mart & could care less about it but it always comes up in these threads, as if Wal-Mart stores just dropped out of the sky.
No, they came about in a very specific and lucky set of circumstances at the exact right time in history, with a person who, granted, worked very hard.


I still fail to see why his background is of import?

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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If how hard someone worked was directly correlated to their wealth, my husband should be able to buy and sell the vast majority of people in this country.

Goes in to work at 6:30 - some days earlier. Wears about 15 hats in a day - estimating, co-ordinating, billing, bidding, drawing, troubleshooting, troubleshooting, troubleshooting, TROUBLESHOOTING - then puts on his tool belt and has to fabricate, and when he fabricates, he does it two times faster than the next fastest person in town (and probably the state - he's famous, and deservedly so, for being the fastest hardest working fabricator anyone knows) and runs to jobs, out of town, back again - all the while answering phones, smoothing out problems with contractors, sub contractors, workers, suppliers, etc etc etc. He finishes up with this around 6 ot 7 (there's 12 hours) and then comes home and several nights a week goes out into his shop and fabricates more duct for his side business.

Sometimes he works all day on saturdays and sundays doing his side work, too.

It is not unusual for him to put in 16 hour days when things get in a deadline crunch.

It's hard work BOTH mentally AND physically. He's been on the roof all day long in 100+ degree weather for the entire summer for the past 15 years, and working in unfinished freezing cold buildings where it's colder even than it is outside, in the winter. Backbreaking work, stooping in crawl spaces, up on scaffolds with safety ties on. His knees and back are already giving him problems - he will not be able to do this part of the work for the remainder of the 25 years he has to go before he retires, but he probably will anyway unless he gets so bad he literally can't.

Anyone who insists those CEO's work harder than my husband, I will slap them. Maybe they boss more folks around than him, but, nobody works harder than he does. Some folks work as hard. ~ Maybe a few work harder. But not many.

If pay and success was directly correlated to hard work, then by God my husband ought to be making seven figures.

Since he doesn't, then I have to assume that people who do are working 32 hours a day, or else it's just a big lie that hard work is all ya need to get ahead.

Other snopesters have illustrated quite well the reasons why - I am just contributing the one hard fact I know for certain and that is that you can't judge how hard a person works by how much money they have, or how much money a person will have by how hard they work.

eta I'm not denying that hard work doesn't play into success. But the line that all the conservatives DO throw out there, that people who don't have enough money could fix that by just working harder, is insulting and simplistic and wrong in many cases. Denying that one just got lucky, either by birth or being in the right place at the right time, and instead reckoning it all entirely to one's own merit, is arrogant and insulting to people who work hard but haven't had the same stroke of lucky coincidence.

eta again. One might argue that if he was just clever enough to work this hard at the right place, he WOULD be making big money. Maybe. But then someone else would have his job, and still be working that hard for middle class (barely) wages and proving that hard work alone isn't necessarily rewarded with wealth.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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El Camino
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
I don't think the CEO of Wal*Mart's work is 3xx times more valuable than the average Wal*Mart employee.

Obviously the people that pay those wages do. That is the beauty of living in a free market economy.
For now, let's put aside talk of bad CEOs getting overpaid and getting "golden parachutes." Less assume Wal-Mart has a good CEO, who knows what he's doing and manages the company well. Considering how well Wal-Mart is doing, I'd say this is likely the case. Is he 300x more valuable than the average employee of Wal-Mart? I think so.

Look at it this way, AnglRdr. Wal-Mart employs "1.3 million associates" in the United States. Suppose 300 of them dropped dead. It would make absolutely no difference to Wal-Mart's corporate profits, even if these people for some reason could not be replaced at all (which they easily would be, within days). Now suppose the CEO drops dead. Big problems for Wal-Mart, huh? Finding someone who can capably manage the world's second largest corporation is not an easy task. Now you might consider those golden parachutes - there are obviously a lot of CEOs who are pretty darn bad at their jobs. Obviously finding a good CEO is not easy.


I do have to agree that golden parachutes are aggravating. It's the opposite of a meritocracy. Why do they occur? Does anyone have a good idea? Presumably, they are in the company's interest in some way. Okay, some golden parachutes are kind of reasonably, like one's when a company is bought out. But I'm talking about when a CEO is performing poorly and is fired. Is it because they want the him out of there quickly, but she's under contract or something and they need to essentially "buy out" the contract so it goes without a fuss? Is it so the fired executives don't go around selling trade secrets or something?

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Why would the CEO dropping dead cause "big problems" for Wal*Mart? I am not saying the CEO is unimportant, but it also isn't as if he/she is sitting in his/her office, personally directing all of Wal*Mart's stores' actions. The franchise would go on and a new CEO would be found.

If the 300 employees that dropped dead were all store general managers, I contend that would have a far greater impact than the CEO dropping dead.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Simply Madeline
The First USA Noel


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McDonalds' (which is a pretty large corporation) CEO died suddenly a few years ago. Minimal disruption to the company. His replacement died a few months later. Obviously, sad and tragic for family and friends involved, but hardly devastating to McD's. Share prices fell for a few days after each death, but the company quickly recovered.
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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Cantor Fitzgerald, a bond trading company, had 658 employees (about two-thirds of its workforce) slaughtered on 9-11. The CEO survived & rebuilt the company.

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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by hoitoider:
Cantor Fitzgerald, a bond trading company, had 658 employees (about two-thirds of its workforce) slaughtered on 9-11. The CEO survived & rebuilt the company.

Not on his own, and the company today is very different than it was on 9/11.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The CEO, CTO and CFO of my company could drop dead and the company would keep functioning and going in the same direction it is going. If all of the 10 managers under them dropped dead, it would still be business as usual. The company would lose all it's clients if 50 low-level managers who are a level above me, dropped dead. Hell, they might even lose a client or two if I dropped dead, and I'm not at management level.

I think the people getting stiffed are the 50 low-level managers. There is not a big differrence between my supervisors and my salary. The CXO's are grossly overpaid because the board doesn't know how important the low-level and middle-level management is, and the CXO's are much too eager to take the credit, but not so eager to give pay raises.

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
If the 300 employees that dropped dead were all store general managers, I contend that would have a far greater impact than the CEO dropping dead.

But store general managers are not going to be making 1/300 of what the CEO makes. And since Wal-Mart has 3,900 stores with 1.8 million employees, a loss of 150 store general managers (this assumes store managers make 2x the lowest-paid Wal-Mart employee) would not be a huge hurdle as they could shift experienced assistant managers from other stores to fill the gaps.

As to how valuable a good CEO is, look at what a bad CEO can do. USA Today

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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