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Author Topic: Soy makes you teh gay!
Jordashe
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http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

It's so obvious!

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Errata
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Well he may take it one conclusion too far, but its true that many people are getting too much soy in their diet. And some people don't know it because its in processed foods that they wouldn't suspect. And the estrogen mimicking properties can cause health issues.
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kmcm
We Three Blings


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So all lactose intolerent people are very feminine? Wow. Stupidity abounds.

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Pseudo_Croat
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It's a WooNet Daily article, which immediately makes it suspect.

If estrogenic compounds really did make a person gay, then we should see a lot of people who work in plastics or chemical industries gradually turning gay. Since this is not the case, I think the man's theory is busted right open.

Anyone care to find a more balanced article on this subject?

- Pseudo_Croat

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Errata
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quote:
Originally posted by kmcm:
So all lactose intolerent people are very feminine? Wow. Stupidity abounds.

That guys claims about behavioral effects are not well established, but it is established that soy can cause estrogen related health effects.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3513607.stm

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Clarity
Toys to the World


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Wow, that's kooky.
I saw a comment about this on Salon.com's daily Broadsheet column today also. They compared it with a site that claimed that eating soy would improve your sex life. Heh, Rutz's point was about sex too, but in another way entirely... that made me laugh.
Edit: Found something
i don't know the site very well, but this seems like a good summation of the estrogenic properties of soy. Not real scary at all. And it has links to other stuff about soy too.

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TurquoiseGirl
The "Was on Sale" Song


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From the BBC link:
quote:
Soya contains the female hormone oestrogen and too much of it is being linked to poor quality sperm.
Wrong! Soya contains phytoestrogens (which are actually flavonoids -which we commonly call antioxidants) which act like estrogens (bind to the same receptors, etc). The primary phytoestrogen in soy is
genistein.


Edited because hit post too early:

According to the PDR, this compound
quote:
Genistein has estrogenic and antioxidant activities. It may also have anticarcinogenic, anti-atherogenic and anti-osteoporotic activities.
There is a rather lengthy bibliography at the end.

When I did a search on my science database on "Phytoestrogen" +"infertility" nothing came up about the supposed effect on men. There were some about problems in female mice.

This article:
Adverse effects on female development and reproduction in CD-1 mice following neonatal exposure to the phytoestrogen genistein at environmentally relevant doses
Author: Jefferson, WN ; Padilla-Banks, E ; Newbold, RR


However found that
quote:
Serum levels of progesterone, estradiol, and [b]testosterone[b] were similar between Gen-treated and control mice when measured before puberty and during pregnancy.
(Emphasis mine).


The demasculination claims were found in this article:
Perinatal exposure to genistein alters reproductive development and aggressive behavior in male mice
Author: Wisniewski, AB ; Cernetich, A ; Gearhart, JP ; Klein, SL
Email: saklein@jhsph.edu
Institution: Johns Hopkins Bloomberg Sch Publ Hlth, Dept Mol Microbiol & Immunol, 615 N Wolfe St, Baltimore, MD 21205 USA ; Johns Hopkins Bloomberg Sch Publ Hlth, W Harry Feinstone Dept Mol Microbiol & Immunol, Baltimore, MD 21287 USA ; Johns Hopkins Sch Med, Dept Pediat, Div Pediat Endocrinol, Baltimore, MD USA ; Johns Hopkins Univ, Sch Med, James Buchanan Brady Urol Inst, Dept Urol, Div Pediat Urol, Baltimore, MD 21218 USA
Journal: PHYSIOLOGY & BEHAVIOR; FEB 15 2005; v.84, no.2, p.327-334
Abstract: Exposure to endocrine disrupting chemicals adversely affects reproductive development and behavior in males. The goal of this study was to determine if exposure to genistein, an isoflavone found in soy, during early periods of sex differentiation alters reproductive development and behavior in male mice. Female C57BL/6 mice were fed a phytoestrogen-free diet supplemented with 0, 5 or 300 mg/kg of genistein throughout gestation and lactation. Anogenital distance (AGD) and body mass of male offspring was measured weekly from postnatal days 2-21, timing of preputial separation was assessed at puberty, and in adulthood, reproductive organ masses, sperm and testosterone production, and reproductive and aggressive behaviors were assessed. Exposure to genistein resulted in smaller AGD are reduced body mass, with the low-dose diet exerting a greater effect. Timing of preputial separation, adult reproductive behavior, sperm concentrations and testosterone production were not influenced by genistein treatment at either dose. Aggressive behaviors were decreased, whereas defensive behaviors were increased, in males that received the low-dose genistein diet. Exposure to genistein during critical periods of sex differentiation results in concurrent and persistent demasculinization in male mice. Phenotypic and behavioral abnormalities induced by genistein showed a non-monotonic response, where treatment with a low dose exerted a greater effect than treatment with a high dose of genistein. Given the popularity of soy infant formulas, the influence isoflavone exposure on reproductive and behavioral health in boys and men should be considered. (c) 2004 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.


A review citing this paper Soy isoflavones and bone health: A double-edged sword?
Author: Reinwald, S ; Weaver, CM
Email: weavercm@purdue.edu
Institution: Purdue Univ, Dept Food Sci, W Lafayette, IN 47907 USA ; Purdue Univ, Dept Food Sci, W Lafayette, IN 47907 USA ; Purdue Univ, Dept Foods & Nutr, W Lafayette, IN 47907 USA
Journal: JOURNAL OF NATURAL PRODUCTS; MAR 2006; v.69, no.3, p.450-459


States:
quote:
Clinical studies in developing humans that either support or refute findings in animal studies are lacking. The effects of chronic consumption of high levels of soy isoflavones at each life stage to assess risk-benefit ratios should be a high priority of research.
In other words, we do not know if the effects on one strain of lab mice have implications for human health.

But I don't think "teh gay" is any more common in places in Asia where soy is a common part of the normal diet.

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Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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Hmm. Soy just makes me teh sick. I wonder if that means my digestive system is homophobic.

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Canuckistan
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quote:
Soy makes you teh gay!
No ... that wasn't it ...

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Buckleupp
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Make up your mind, WDN and like-minded folk...if homosexuality is a biochemical reaction, or the result of in-the-womb diet from your mother's over-soyed diet, then it can't be a choice, and there can be no moral culpability, right?

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Canuckistan
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You can always blame the soy industry!

Evil, evil industry.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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TurquoiseGirl
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Buckleupp:
Make up your mind, WDN and like-minded folk...if homosexuality is a biochemical reaction, or the result of in-the-womb diet from your mother's over-soyed diet, then it can't be a choice, and there can be no moral culpability, right?

No, it's your mother's fault which is the beauty thing of the whole business-- an update on the whole Adam/Eve myth.

First it was women experimenting with fruit that caused the Downfall of Man. Now it is women feeding their children soy that is causing the Downfall of Masculinity.

Because if I got nothing else from the article in the OP, it was that masculine=good; feminine =bad (women can, as it turns out, be too feminine).

No wonder we can't trust them to control their own fertility. I think in view of this, we should consider recinding that amendment that allowed them to vote...

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There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe

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Salamander
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quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseGirl:
From the BBC link:
quote:
Soya contains the female hormone oestrogen and too much of it is being linked to poor quality sperm.
Wrong! Soya contains phytoestrogens (which are actually flavonoids -which we commonly call antioxidants) which act like estrogens (bind to the same receptors, etc). The primary phytoestrogen in soy is
genistein.


Edited because hit post too early:

According to the PDR, this compound
quote:
Genistein has estrogenic and antioxidant activities. It may also have anticarcinogenic, anti-atherogenic and anti-osteoporotic activities.
There is a rather lengthy bibliography at the end.

When I did a search on my science database on "Phytoestrogen" +"infertility" nothing came up about the supposed effect on men. There were some about problems in female mice.


Tgirl, you know what talking science does to some of us on these boards...

There goes my ability to concentrate for the rest of the day.

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Peccavimus
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I adore the fact that he links homosexuality to small penises. I keep laughing every time I think of it.
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Canuckistan
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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
Tgirl, you know what talking science does to some of us on these boards...

Eat some soy. Apparently, that'll take care of your problem.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Salamander
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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
Tgirl, you know what talking science does to some of us on these boards...

Eat some soy. Apparently, that'll take care of your problem.
Don't you wish [Razz]

Actually I think this guy got a hefty payoff from the dairy industry to write "soy = gay". I can just see the homophobes rushing to buy milk now.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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Lainie
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Some sources say soy is goitrogenic (interferes with thyroid function). Hypothyroid patients are cautioned to be moderate in their soy intake, and not to eat soy within several hours of taking their thyroid hormone supplement.

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Cervus
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quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseGirl:

Because if I got nothing else from the article in the OP, it was that masculine=good; feminine =bad (women can, as it turns out, be too feminine).

No wonder we can't trust them to control their own fertility. I think in view of this, we should consider recinding that amendment that allowed them to vote...

Perhaps men should just take over reproduction altogether and have the babies themselves. We obviously can't be trusted not to screw it up.

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Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Mickey Blue
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quote:
Perhaps men should just take over reproduction altogether and have the babies themselves. We obviously can't be trusted not to screw it up.
Well that was the plan, but we couldn't be carrying around babies while we were running the free world now could we? And that, my friend, is why we have women, think of them as mobile incubators, with an added bonus of them being fun to look at (well, except for those hairy armed liberal ones)

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"All people are responsible for the good that they didn't do"

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Salamander
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quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Blue:
Well that was the plan, but we couldn't be carrying around babies while we were running the free world now could we? And that, my friend, is why we have women, think of them as mobile incubators, with an added bonus of them being fun to look at (well, except for those hairy armed liberal ones)

Hey ladies, Mickey just recently sent me a PM to say that his post I've quoted is completely free of all sarcasm. Yes, he actually meant everything he said!

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landmammal
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Dammit! I was all set to move to Virginia for some firefighter love, but now my hopes are dashed!

Thank you, Sal, for saving me from a life of servitude.

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lyriccoloratura
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"Research in 2000 showed that a soy-based diet at any age can lead to a weak thyroid, which commonly produces heart problems and excess fat. Could this explain the dramatic increase in obesity today?"

Somehow, I don't think the TV-addicted, Twinkie-gobbling kids featured in today's dramatic increase in obesity were given an excess of soy in infancy (please note that not all obese kids are TV-addicted Twinkie-gobblers). I think they were given an excess of TV and Twinkies.

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ComicBookGeek
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I guess it's a good thing I got over my homophobia in recent years, since Soy is going to make millions of American's gay.

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chillas
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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:

Anyone care to find a more balanced article on this subject?

How about, you find one and we'll read it?

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Tarquin Farquart
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quote:
That's why most of the medical (not socio-spiritual) blame for today's rise in homosexuality must fall upon the rise in soy formula and other soy products.
Is this guy for real????

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Jordashe
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I'm glad to see such a detailed debunking taking place here.
The oddity of the claim that soy leads to both small penises, and feminine behavior seems especially suspect.
Feminine behavior is hardly a characteristic of the gay community. It's the behavior of a stereotype that seems to be a minority within the minority group - or one that just seems to be popular on TV.

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Psihala
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
The oddity of the claim that soy leads to both small penises, and feminine behavior seems especially suspect.
If it were even remotely possible to get 'feminine behavior" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) by taking any product, I want a box of it to give to some of my co-workers for Christmas.

~Psihala
(*"Hey, I just got a heart transplant. Now I can write some really juicy love letters!)

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Open Mike Night
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Ok, if soy creates homosexuals because it "feminizes" people, can someone explain how lesbians fit into that equation? Since ,of course, out of control femeninity and masculinity in the wrong sex is what causes teh ghey, shouldn't we be seeing a sharp decrease in the number of lesbians?

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Open Mike Night:
Ok, if soy creates homosexuals because it "feminizes" people, can someone explain how lesbians fit into that equation? Since ,of course, out of control femeninity and masculinity in the wrong sex is what causes teh ghey, shouldn't we be seeing a sharp decrease in the number of lesbians?

Surely an increase if it makes you both "girly" and gay?

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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Llewtrah
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If soy makes guys gay, feminine, infertile etc, surely the population of China should be in rapid decline? Instead of one-child legislation, the consumption of soy products should have kept the population down.

I don't have any stats, but I'm fairly sure China's population is not decreasing through infertility or homosexuality in spite of soy products forming a large part of the diet. Lab results on mice are all well and good, but there is a huge real world model out there taht has been consuming soy for far longer than any population of lab rodent!

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alicia
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so what about the massive amounts of hormones present in breastmilk? blaaaaaah.
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