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Author Topic: Ruling sought on Derry/Londonderry issue.
Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Few cities are blessed - or possibly cursed - with such a profusion of competing identities. According to political preference, the thriving conurbation that spans the river Foyle is alternatively Londonderry, Derry, Doire, the Maiden City or even Stroke City.

The high court in Belfast will today launch a judicial review to establish the settlement's true name. Lawyers will pore over 17th-century royal charters and examine reams of local government regulations in what is believed to be the first attempt of its kind by any UK city.



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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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The solution is obvious. Derry is an anglicised version of the Irish word for an oak grove, and the Irish word for an oak tree is Dara.

As our own Dara is from there, and lives in London, the best name for the city should be London Dara's City. I think this proposal should unite everyone.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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When I went there, everybody I met called it "Derry"... That's also close to the original name and much less clunky to say. And it cuts out any insulting overtones. It seems pretty clear-cut to me; the only reason to insist on "Londonderry" is deliberately to cause offense.

quote:
"Derry has always been Derry," insisted Seamus Gallagher, as he sheltered from a downpour at his market stand. "Ninety-five per cent of the unionist people use Derry as well. No one uses Londonderry except for point-scoring."
Sounds about right.
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Gydna
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Change the name to Foyle Bridge or some other non-partisan name that no one could object to.

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Churchill drank, smoked and was a successful amateur painter. Hitler was a teetotal, vegetarian, animal loving failed professional painter. Draw your own conclusions!

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Gydna:
Change the name to Foyle Bridge or some other non-partisan name that no one could object to.

Since the crux of the matter is that the city had a name change foisted upon it without its consent, which has had the result of causing resentment, I'm puzzled that you think foisting a new name change upon it is the way to go, and would not cause resentment.

I would object to "Foyle Bridge" and refuse to use it for the same reason as I object to "Londonderry," and refuse to use it: because it's not the name of the city.

Though I do quite like Zachary's suggestion.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Marci157
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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What do the locals call the city? And, if you know what the name of the city is not, why not take the most prevalent name the locals use and name it that? Much ado about nothing, I think.
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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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Who calls it Stroke City? And why?

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Marci157:
What do the locals call the city? And, if you know what the name of the city is not, why not take the most prevalent name the locals use and name it that? Much ado about nothing, I think.

The locals, including, for example, me, predominantly call it "Derry," though it must be conceded that a very small proportion of the populace do use "Londonderry," possibly in order to make a political point, possibly for some other reason which doesn't occur to me at the moment.

It was originally founded as a monastery by St Colmcille, also known as St Columb or St Columba in c550, and named "Doire" which translates as "Oak Grove;" in the centuries following his death it became known as "Doire Colmcille," which is still its name as Gaeilge.

It became known as "Londonderry" when, following the Plantation of Ulster, the city was sold to The Honourable The Irish Company, a consortium made up of eleven of the twelve guilds of London. (The twelfth guild, the guild of Drapers, established its own town, which was rather originally called "Draperstown.") However, the name change wasn't made official until the 1700s, hence one refers always to 'The Siege of Derry' and to 'The Apprentice Boys of Derry' when one's discussing the history of Protestant Supremacist er, perfectly harmless social organisations.

The local authority, which is profoundly Nationalist/Republican dominated is known as "Derry City Council," and the local football team is known as "Derry City FC."

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
Who calls it Stroke City? And why?

It was coined in the 1980s by Derry broadcaster Gerry Anderson (no, not the Thunderbirds fella, the fella who had a spectacularly unsuccessful run on Radio 4 about ten years ago) , as a satirical comment on the use of "Derry/Londonderry," or "Derrystrokelondonderry" in the UK press.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Dara bhur gCara:
quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
Who calls it Stroke City? And why?

It was coined in the 1980s by Derry broadcaster Gerry Anderson (no, not the Thunderbirds fella, the fella who had a spectacularly unsuccessful run on Radio 4 about ten years ago) , as a satirical comment on the use of "Derry/Londonderry," or "Derrystrokelondonderry" in the UK press.
That's less impressive then I imagined.

I say call it "Derry" anyone who wants to can mumble the "London" if they're desperate to do so.

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Thank you for the history lesson, Dara. I was rather familiar with it but would have had to look it up for the particulars. The idea of "much ado about nothing" probably comes from lack of understanding about the significance of the issue, don't you think?

I like Zachary's idea of naming the town after you. How about "DerryDara" or "DaraDerry?"

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago, G.R.I.T.S.:
Thank you for the history lesson, Dara. I was rather familiar with it but would have had to look it up for the particulars. The idea of "much ado about nothing" probably comes from lack of understanding about the significance of the issue, don't you think?




Well, I suppose that, viewed dispassionately, it could be seen as a fuss over nothing, but it's difficult for anyone on any side of the Northern Irish political divide to view any issue such as this dispassionately.

Plus, names are important. Look at the way in which, for example Karl-Marx-Stadt immediately reverted to its pre-Communist name of Chemnitz following the reunification of Germany, or similarly, Stalingrad and Leningrad reverting to their original titles following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

That said, there is a tendency on the part of both sides of the political divide to be somewhat precious as far as terminology goes. I'm not exactly above that myself.

quote:

I like Zachary's idea of naming the town after you. How about "DerryDara" or "DaraDerry?"

No, you see that would be tautologous, it would translate as "Oak grove of oak trees," which is slight overkill I reckon, and the annoyance of the tautology would overrule the egomaniacal enjoyment I would get from naming a town after myself. Maybe a street or something.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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Wikipedia has a page on the Derry/Londonderry naming dispute


I thought I would furnish you with something about what the Norn Iron blogosphere (Oh yes, we have computers and electricity and stuff over there, you know. We're not all jolly little leprechauns playing our tiny little fiddles and giving out lucky charms, you know) are saying about the proposed change.

Slugger O'Toole is probably the best-known Northern Irish political blog. If anyone's interested in Northern Irish politics - and how could you not be intrigued by issues like the unlicensed taxi honey-trap sting scandal? - it's a must. Here's an earlier thread on the same topic, which has some insightful debate. Well, reasonably insightful; it doesn't descend into Fenian-Prod namecalling for at least two pages.

Tangled Web is a blog very much from the unionist perspective, which is not happy about the proposed name-change at all.

Something that's muddying the waters slightly is that, while the city was originally called 'Derry' before being changed, there has never been a 'County Derry,' whereas there is now a 'County Londonderry,' and there may not be the same justification for changing the name. So we may end up with Derry City in County Londonderry, which is somewhat counter-intuitive.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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non-sectarian waffles

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Democratic Unionist party alderman Joe Miller could not agree. "[Londonderry] ties together the old Irish name and the London people who helped build the city. It's wrong to sectarianise this issue. If it was called Newyorkderry there wouldn't be a fuss."
Really. For those two comments alone, his side should lose.

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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