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Author Topic: "This board leans to the left"....?
RangerDog
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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My observations: I don't want to say *left* or *right* because as a whole, the board tends to be supportive of snopsian defined inalienable rights, regardless of their political beliefs. You know, don't kick kittens and all. In general the snopes USA team leans very politically Democrat but more centrist in ideology. I hate defining people as left because they vote Democrat or right because they vote Republican. We are much more diverse than that and deserve better.

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Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish

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Brad from Georgia
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Well, come along boys, pay attention to my slant,
I lean left like a good Democrant,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.
I log on daily and I read through my snopes,
And I curse Neocons for right-wing dopes,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.

I support bleeding hearts and aid to the poor,
When it comes to immigrants, give me some moor,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.
I like my politics liberal, my handouts king-sized,
My taxes high and my medicine socialized,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.

Well, I vote with my head and not with my gut,
Guess you could call me a loony left nut,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.
Like to see right-wingers on the run,
Wait 'til they learn I'm gonna control guns!
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.

Now, if you don't believe my story is true,
Well, it's a pack of lies, I'm tellin' you,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.
I don't lean left, I'm right in the center,
And that's all I'll say and all I meant ter!
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay,
Come a ti yi yippie yippie yay.

--------------------
"No hard feelin's and HOPpy New Year!"--Walt Kelly
Hear what you're missing: ARTC podcasts! http://artcpodcast.org/

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Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
Archie2K's a bit of a Tory type, isn't he? Surely there have to be at least two of you for the half-life even to have a meaning, unless it goes by number of posts or something.

How would you measure Tory half-lives anyway? Do we emit particles? (Neutrons? Photons? Camerons?)
I was assuming it was the time it takes for half the sample to die... (or stop posting, anyway, since Steve Eisenberg mentioned "board half life").
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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Brad from Georgia:
Well, come along boys, pay attention to my slant,
I lean left like a good Democrant . . .

Now that's my kinda cowboy music!

And, just for the record, may I gush in sheer awestruck admiration of your wit, style, class, talent, artistry, panache, and overall grooviness?

Silas

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Brad from Georgia
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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You may, Silas. You may.

Brad "groovitude incarnated" from Georgia

--------------------
"No hard feelin's and HOPpy New Year!"--Walt Kelly
Hear what you're missing: ARTC podcasts! http://artcpodcast.org/

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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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See? Us on the compassionate, bleeding heart liberal wing, we care about those tory half-lives, ebbing away...

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I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I thought it was that song by Blur...

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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quiltsbypam
Happy Holly Days


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Brad, you Totally Rock! I almost laughed in my last customer's ear with that.

I can't say for sure if the board leans left or right; some threads go one way and some another. But, for the most part, people will at least debate their views and not just resort to calling each other stupid poopy-heads. That's a problem with American politics today, IMHO. There doesn't seem to be any debate anymore. Just mud-slinging and name-calling. YMMV.

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"No Biblical hell could ever be worse than the state of perpetual inconsequence." Beatrice in Dangerous Beauty

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TurquoiseGirl
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I think it depends on the forum, doesn't it? The War threads lean definitely to the right. So much so that I stopped bothering looking about a year after I joined. The board over all is pretty centrist,if slightly left leaning.

But why does this matter, in fact? Do we have some commitment to be "fair and balanced?" so that for every Dara, we must have a Zachary, and for every AnglRdr, a FoT?

As far as the "hostility to religion" business, I do see some of that. Perhaps people don't mean to be hostile, but it certainly comes off that way sometimes. Words like "superstition", "hallucination" and "wishful thinking" when applied to people's personal beliefs can be very patronizing, especially when they relate to significant experiences, which, whatever the source, hold great meaning.

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There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe

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Unusual Elfin Lights
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I think this board on the whole board balances out quite well. Turquoisegirl hit it on the head when she stated that certain threads within the boards will lean right/left, but others are the opposite.

On the military threads there seem to be a few more right thinking people, but that is, I believe, because people who think that way gravitate towards those threads. On the other hand, the Soapbox derby tends, in my view, to attract the left thinking people.

As for religion, this is one topic I avoid. TG above has summed it up. I will add that I stopped even reading the threads when I challenged someone on their stance. It went something like this (names and circumstances modified, mostly because I have no memory of to whom I was talking)
quote:

Poster: You can't talk to Christians about this belief because they won't listen to reason and are not open to debate.
Me: This issue is not a black or white issue, you can debate the shades of grey. It sounds like you are not open to debate.
Poster: Christians are closed minded, they won't debate. Besides, I've made up my mind and there is nothing they can say that will make me change it. But I'll debate them.

Personally, I don't enjoy trying to discuss religion on a board, so I avoid it.

Mind you, the military and technology, law and politics, I'll post as often as I've got something to say.

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Archie2K
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Most certainly on some issues the board seems to lean "left". Pretty much anything to do with Bush and Iraq. This is pretty much in line with what I hear every day though. Most people of all political stripes think that Iraq was a bad decision. The social conservatism practiced by Bush is way off the scale compared to most of Europe.

Once you get down to political theory though, you find a pretty even divide. I've not seen people apologising for the workers' rights records of China or Cuba. I've not seen hostility towards free market economics. Most importantly, I've not seen hostility towards conservatives based solely on their political stripe. Even towards FirstofTwo (mostly)

When the real nutjob lefties have arrived, moderate lefties have been the first to stand up and object.

Quality of my poetry? Two Newtonian poetry awards, thank you very much.

quote:
I was assuming it was the time it takes for half the sample to die... (or stop posting, anyway, since Steve Eisenberg mentioned "board half life").
Damn. Well I'm really skewing the distribution!
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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by RangerDog:
In general the snopes USA team leans very politically Democrat but more centrist in ideology. I hate defining people as left because they vote Democrat or right because they vote Republican. We are much more diverse than that and deserve better.

Yes, we deserve better in the sense that our views should be judged on their merits.

However, if you want to judge whether the board's Americans are, on average, tilting one way or the other, I think looking at voting preference is the most objective measure. This is the point where you have to decide which issues are the ones you care about the most. As for the average Democratic poster being more centrist than the average Democrat, I don't see it. Consider the weight of opinion here unfavorable to Sen. Lieberman, and the almost total lack of snopesian Democratic defenders for this proven votegetter. Even a centrist Democrat like Hillary Clinton is commonly attacked here from the left.

As for posters from other countries, maybe someone should do polls. For example, what percentage of British citizens here are sympathetic to the Liberal Democrats compared to the UK average? I don't have a good feel for that one.

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"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Steve, really, can I have some of what you're smoking? "Attacks" on HRC, indeed.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
Even a centrist Democrat like Hillary Clinton is commonly attacked here from the left.

I'm going to have to ask for a cite on this one. I've never noticed any attacks from the left of HRC, which I expect I would if they were "common."

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Steve
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:


One group of snopians that does not seem skewed to the left consists of those serving in national militaries. I suppose that after you've been shot at, merely being insulted doesn't seem like much.

A strange non sequitur. Do you mean that people on here tend to insult the military members on board, or am I misunderstanding?
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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
Even a centrist Democrat like Hillary Clinton is commonly attacked here from the left.

I'm going to have to ask for a cite on this one. I've never noticed any attacks from the left of HRC, which I expect I would if they were "common."

Four Kitties

Perhaps Steve E is stretching the definition of "attack" to include "not supporting her as a possible candidate for President"?

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
Even a centrist Democrat like Hillary Clinton is commonly attacked here from the left.

I'm going to have to ask for a cite on this one. I've never noticed any attacks from the left of HRC, which I expect I would if they were "common."

Four Kitties

The attacks were political, not personal.

Let me put it another way. If the Democratic primary were held on this board, Russ Feingold could probably beat Hillary Clinton.

It's true that people here have themselves convinced the Hillary would lose to the GOP and that that is their main problem with her. But, objectively, most of those folks support candidates who are more liberal and thus less electable.

It is going to be hard to convince me that someone who prefers Russ Feingold to Hillary Clinton isn't a man or woman of the left. But, of course, all are free to try.

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"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
It's true that people here have themselves convinced the Hillary would lose to the GOP and that that is their main problem with her.

I think most people here are smart enough to know that HRC is the GOP dream candidate. They are just salivating at the chance to get to pull her through the mud and rake her muck. Why, one Clinton is as good as another Clinton to the right isn't it?

Why, I'd wager dollars to donuts (the good kind, from Tim Horton's not Krispy Kreme) that the only reason you think she is a centrist is because she is the one you'd love to have as the Democratic candidate for many of the same reasons I listed above.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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wanderwoman
Bluetooth Christmas


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"Not supporting as president" is attacking now?

OMG! All my friends are attacking me! [Eek!]

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"But I'm adding this to my reasons why I never really liked really good looking men much. Sheesh, what good is good looking if you have to stuff a sock in his mouth." - Sara at home
NFBSK, IIRC and other mysterious Snopester language

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Russ Feingold should beat HRC in a race judged by Democrats. He actually is one.

And I think, Steve E, you need to rethink your use of the word "attack."

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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I'mNotDedalus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
I think most people here are smart enough to know that HRC is the GOP dream candidate. They are just salivating at the chance to get to pull her through the mud and rake her muck. Why, one Clinton is as good as another Clinton to the right isn't it?

Why, I'd wager dollars to donuts (the good kind, from Tim Horton's not Krispy Kreme) that the only reason you think she is a centrist is because she is the one you'd love to have as the Democratic candidate for many of the same reasons I listed above.

Say what, girlfriend?

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The salty fragrance of L’Eau D’I’mNotDedalus - made entirely of and entirely for sea turtles.

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by I'mNotDedalus:
Say what, girlfriend?

The GOP wants Hilary as the Democratic candidate because they've probably been planning their Presidential attack campaign against her since she first ran for Senate.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
I think most people here are smart enough to know that HRC is the GOP dream candidate. They are just salivating at the chance to get to pull her through the mud and rake her muck.


Put the former first lady and America's most famous wronged woman through the mud and muck? It's hard to see anything that could more repel heartland swing voters.

quote:
Why, I'd wager dollars to donuts (the good kind, from Tim Horton's not Krispy Kreme) that the only reason you think she is a centrist is because she is the one you'd love to have as the Democratic candidate for many of the same reasons I listed above.
The reason I prefer her to other possible candidates is that she is a liberal hawk in the John Kerry tradition. I specifically think she is less likely to pressure Israel to make unwise concessions than are some of the other candidates.

Al Gore might also be acceptable to me on foreign policy. He's said a lot of, from my POV, foolish things, since losing six years ago, but before that he was what we used to call an internationalist; I voted for him in 2000.

Not everyone has some grand strategic vision as to how their posts on snopes are going to influence the US presidential, or any other, elections.

--------------------
"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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keokuk
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
I think most people here are smart enough to know that HRC is the GOP dream candidate. They are just salivating at the chance to get to pull her through the mud and rake her muck. Why, one Clinton is as good as another Clinton to the right isn't it?

Not to get into a side debate, but a lot of Republican friends of mine here who work on campaigns and in politics professionally have told me that they genuinely believe that if she gets the nomination, she'll win the presidency. This is partially because they're not very enthusiastic about their own potential candidates, but there's very much a sense that her past has been sifted through as much as it can be already.

This means that in the course of an actual general election, as things come out about the past of whoever the Republican candidate is, it will look as though new scandal after new scandal is coming up due to the timing of disclosure. Meanwhile, everyone will have known about all the dirt on her for a decade. The newer things will be fresher in people's minds. Also, a difficult primary would benefit her, since a challenge from the left would make her appear to be more centrist to the broader electorate.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by MapleLeaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
I find that it helps if I sit up straight in my chair.

bad idea
I meant horizontally, not vertically. [lol]

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Logoboros
We Three Blings


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On Steve E.'s assertion about voting preference:

I think you're dealing with a problematic sample, especially if you're going to make claims about the board as a whole.

Any political thread is going to disproportionately attract more politically-minded snopsters. The people most likely to post to a thread about HRC are those who have a strong opinion about it. These are typically not going to be your moderates and centrists.

Your analysis is sort of like saying "No orthodox Jews came to my pig roast -- therefore, there must not be any orthodox Jews in town!"

--Logoboros

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"If Men were Wise, the Most arbitrary Princes could not hurt them. If they are not wise, the Freest Government is compelld to be a Tyranny."

--William Blake

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by MapleLeaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
I find that it helps if I sit up straight in my chair.

bad idea
I meant horizontally, not vertically. [lol]
How does one sit up straight in a chair horizontally? I call that lying down. [Smile]

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"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
I think most people here are smart enough to know that HRC is the GOP dream candidate. They are just salivating at the chance to get to pull her through the mud and rake her muck.

Personally, I don't think that would work this time around. I really doubt there is much more the right can dig up or say about Sen. Clinton that hasn't already been known for years.

Pogue

--------------------
Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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Simply Madeline
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone:
quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
I think most people here are smart enough to know that HRC is the GOP dream candidate. They are just salivating at the chance to get to pull her through the mud and rake her muck.

Personally, I don't think that would work this time around. I really doubt there is much more the right can dig up or say about Sen. Clinton that hasn't already been known for years.

Pogue

You're assuming they will stick to the truth.
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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by Simply Madeline:
You're assuming they will stick to the truth.

Heck, even the made-up ones have been around for years.

Pogue

--------------------
Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseGirl:

But why does this matter, in fact? Do we have some commitment to be "fair and balanced?" so that for every Dara, we must have a Zachary, and for every AnglRdr, a FoT?

T-Girl, with all due respect to FoT, if all I have achieved here is to play First to my friend Dara's AnglRdr, then perhaps my half-life is up....

(Or was that your revenge for me calling you a conservative last summer?)

ETA: though on reflection I like the implication that once Dara and I have opined, a thread becomes fair and balanced. More people should recognise this, IMO.

Posts: 2370 | From: Arabia | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by MapleLeaf:
How does one sit up straight in a chair horizontally? I call that lying down. [Smile]

I think Signora meant to sit up straight in terms of leaning to the left or right (on the Y axis I guess you could say), whereas your article speaks of the dangers of sitting upright in terms of the X axis (compared to leaning forward or backwards).

One should be at 0 on the Y axis and -135 on the X axis (according to the article you posted). Of course, since we're talking about what is essentially pivotal movement, maybe longitude and latitude might've been better indicators for me to use.

--------------------
"victory thru self-deception"

Posts: 2211 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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quote:
I really doubt there is much more the right can dig up or say about Sen. Clinton that hasn't already been known for years.
But you have to consider the effectiveness of the stuff they can make up about her within the next two years.

- snopes

Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
As for posters from other countries, maybe someone should do polls. For example, what percentage of British citizens here are sympathetic to the Liberal Democrats compared to the UK average? I don't have a good feel for that one.

(Sorry - clicked Submit too early. Edited to actually include my post!)

I tend to vote Liberal Democrat, but as trollface pointed out, they actually used to be the centrist party. I first voted for them in 1997, the year New Labour and Blair got in. It wasn't evident to me at that point that Labour had moved to the right of the Lib Dems. (I did know that I didn't trust Blair though - I remember telling somebody that when they tried to persuade me to vote Labour, and it seems quite prescient now.)

I don't feel that my politics have changed much since then, so if my position used to be centrist in UK terms then it's an accident that I ended up on the left. But I'm happy enough to be there.

The only time I didn't vote Liberal Democrat was in 1992, when I actually voted Conservative... but I think I've mentioned before that this was basically panic after I realised that the SDP / Liberal Alliance had split into several parties with "Liberal" in the name and I couldn't remember which was which! I was brought up to mistrust those bolshie Labour types and so they didn't even seem an option at that point. Luckily for my conscience, Chichester is a fairly safe Conservative seat anyway so my misplaced vote wouldn't have affected the outcome.

I'm not sure of the percentage, but I do think the UK board population is more skewed leftwards than the UK average.

Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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I'm rather the same as Richard, although I've contemplated voting Green once or twice but I don't reckon the rest of their policies are up to scratch. I usually vote LibDem but voted Conservative in 1997 because where I lived them the LibDem candidate was anti-legal abortion, which is a dealbreaker for me, and I didn't vote Labour because I've also never trusted Blair. Labour won the seat IIRC so it didn't matter in the end either. I still feel guilty htough [Wink]

I'm definitely a bleeding heart liberal leftie though, and am rather disturbed by the sudden right-turn that seems to be being executed by my fellow citizens.

--------------------
Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

Posts: 8528 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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