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Author Topic: Muggers commit crimes for kicks
Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6194122.stm

quote:
Street robbers often carry out their crimes for the thrill as much as for the financial gain, a report has said. The Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) study interviewed 120 offenders in England and Wales.

The report said previous attempts to explain violent street crime put too much focus on the desire for gain, and not enough on the aspect of "pleasure".



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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Publius
Happy Holly Days


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People routinely try to validate their own empty and pathetic lives by seeking control over the lives of others (see "politics").
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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
(see "politics").
Hehe.

But this is interesting because it should make us ask: "Should we as a society make efforts to make people's lives less empty and pathetic? If so, how can we do that"

What is it that makes mugging a thrill for some people, when others can get their buzz from skateboarding, or painting, or whatever?

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I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Embra:
quote:
(see "politics").
Hehe.

But this is interesting because it should make us ask: "Should we as a society make efforts to make people's lives less empty and pathetic? If so, how can we do that"

Well, it is important to reduce the risk of politics...

Community art projects? A celebration of traditional British amateurishness so that people realise they can do things for fun even if they're bad at them, and don't have to look like the people on the telly? I don't know, really.

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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
Community art projects? A celebration of traditional British amateurishness so that people realise they can do things for fun even if they're bad at them, and don't have to look like the people on the telly? I don't know, really.

I think you're addressing the symptoms, rather than the cause, Richard.

It seems clear that the apparent increase in antisocial crime coincides with a period of relative affluence in Great Britain. The morally corrosive effects of money on the undeserving poor are well documented, and it is surely time to put in hand a sustained and comprehensive campaign to drive down the wage of the common working folk of the UK. The benefits of such a campaign are obvious and innumerable, but include:

1. freeing many folk from the lure of a consumerist society

2. creating greater social cohesion through shared hardship

3. reducing temptations to crime, and assisting detection of criminals (as nobody else should be able to afford shoes on council estates)

4. encouraging an interest in long-term, reflective hobbies like collecting used matchsticks, rather than immediate gratification through violent and unpleasant DVDs, computer games, amusement arcades, books and the like

5. reducing harmful social influences, by encouraging illiteracy

6. reducing the burden on overstretched national resources, through higher mortality rates

7. encouraging greater reliance on public transport and high density tenement housing.

It's nothing new, really. I only wonder why it is left to visionaries like me to remind folk of it.

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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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Am I the only person who thinks a bloody good kicking for these idiots may be in order? I remember watching a couple of lads attempt to mug an OAP as he stepped off a bus in Cork a few years ago. The old proceeded to beat the 2 lads up and down the footpath, much to the delight and cheers of the other pedestrians at the scene.

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There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

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BringTheNoise
Xboxing Day


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I doubt you're the only one who thinks so (I'm sure the editorial staff of the Daily Mail would be behind such a proposal). I would doubt its effectiveness.

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"The United States Government: significantly less cruel and sadistic than the Taliban." - Dara

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Publius
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Embra:
quote:
(see "politics").
Hehe.

But this is interesting because it should make us ask: "Should we as a society make efforts to make people's lives less empty and pathetic? If so, how can we do that"

Well, as individual people, I certainly think it's nice to find fulfillment in people we love and to try to help them fulfill themselves, too. If we're aiming for fulfillment in terms of lasting meaning, though, I'm not sure we're going to get very far. In the long run, we're all dead.

Humanity is united by mortality. Death is the human condition, and it's the only real infinity that we'll ever know. People try to get around this by projecting themselves into organized religion, or the state and "the People," or even just into their families and other individual human beings whom they love, but this effort to go outside of ourselves never really lets us avoid the destruction of our selves in the very concrete way that we'd probably like.

And, insofar as its a dishonest attempt to persuade ourselves that we don't really have to die after all, it probably leads us to squander the one life that we do get. I think that retired politicians must be very sad. Can you imagine waking up at 65 and realizing that you've given your life to 300 million people that you don't really know or love, and who probably don't really deserve it, when you could have given all that time to the two or three or four people you do know, and whom you do love, and who certainly deserve it?

If we do this as "society" it's all the more dangerous, because we're doing it for and as an abstraction rather than for and as real people. People go run off in pursuit of abstractions frequently wind up killing real people. It's better, I think, to let someone live his or her one shot at life the way he or she wants than to toy with that life in the vain hope of granting it some kind of meaning in the way we generally think of the word. It's better, I think, to admit (to steal a phrase) that "I'm not okay, you're not okay, and that's okay."

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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by BringTheNoise:
I doubt you're the only one who thinks so (I'm sure the editorial staff of the Daily Mail would be behind such a proposal). I would doubt its effectiveness.

Oh I don't think it is "the only thing these people understand" or anything like it. It does seem to me however that an element of the punishment fitting the crime might not go astray.

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There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

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Archie2K
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by BringTheNoise:
I doubt you're the only one who thinks so (I'm sure the editorial staff of the Daily Mail would be behind such a proposal). I would doubt its effectiveness.

Out of interest, why don't you think it would work, and what would work better?

It seems to me that committing such crimes are about having power over people. Most people aren't going to fight back over a few quid or a cheap mobile which gives the attacker considerable power. It must be an adrenaline rush and awesome. Getting a beating from a victim may reduce that power rush. It also hurts.

Of course there other option is that the defeat only fires up the person to commit more crimes in retribution. Not being a criminal psychologist I am likely talking out of my hat.

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BringTheNoise
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Archie2K:
quote:
Originally posted by BringTheNoise:
I doubt you're the only one who thinks so (I'm sure the editorial staff of the Daily Mail would be behind such a proposal). I would doubt its effectiveness.

Out of interest, why don't you think it would work, and what would work better?

I don't think it would work because the report suggests that the assaults are about thrill, rather than power or monetary gain. While taking a beating is hardly thrilling, the added risk may well add to the risk and thus the thrill of attacking someone and getting away with it. Plus, I think you could be on to something with your retribution idea. (Also, on a principle rather than practicality side, I don't believe the state should be handing out corporal punishment).

As to what would be more effective - I don't know. I think the current system, flawed as it is, is still better than "an eye for an eye" type beatings.

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"The United States Government: significantly less cruel and sadistic than the Taliban." - Dara

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Archie2K:
It seems to me that committing such crimes are about having power over people. Most people aren't going to fight back over a few quid or a cheap mobile which gives the attacker considerable power. It must be an adrenaline rush and awesome. Getting a beating from a victim may reduce that power rush. It also hurts.

A couple of radio interviews with perpetrators of such crimes indicated that both of them preferred it when the victims fought back - it made them (the muggers) look even "bigger" in their own eyes. Unfortunately no web cite for that, though.

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Archie2K:
It seems to me that committing such crimes are about having power over people. Most people aren't going to fight back over a few quid or a cheap mobile which gives the attacker considerable power. It must be an adrenaline rush and awesome. Getting a beating from a victim may reduce that power rush. It also hurts.

A couple of radio interviews with perpetrators of such crimes indicated that both of them preferred it when the victims fought back - it made them (the muggers) look even "bigger" in their own eyes. Unfortunately no web cite for that, though.
I think I agree with you here. I do however believe that a bit of "helping the police with their enquiries" is sometimes in order. An old schoolfriend of mine is a Garda in Ireland now, and he freely admits that in certain circumstances, muggers and the likes will get "helped" out of the station, when the officers feel a short sharp shock will assist the guy back onto the straight and narrow. As my mate puts it "these guys know that the court system has flaws, so they regularly get away with their crimes. But when they know that there is a good chance of a slap from the local copper, they might think twice"

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There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Friends of Alfred said:
Am I the only person who thinks a bloody good kicking for these idiots may be in order?

Then they really would be mugging for kicks...

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I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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