quote: Gov. Mitt Romney asked Massachusetts' highest court Friday to force a proposed anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment onto the state's 2008 ballot if the Legislature fails to vote on it.
-------------------- "Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie." -Apu (The Simpsons) Posts: 2026 | From: 10 miles South of Boston | Registered: Oct 2002
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I suspect that even Romney realizes gay marriage is here to stay (at least in Massachusetts) and is only posturing for the out-of-state bigots as part of a campaign for the presidency. Luckily for decent people everywhere, I also suspect that Romney lacks the regional support from his home state and the moderate appeal that will be necessary to win the next presidential election.
-------------------- "If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf Posts: 977 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Oct 2005
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Maybe some parts, yes. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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South Africa, which up until 15 years ago or so, had a legally binding racial policy that kept the majority race (black Africans) as second-class citizens to a small white minority to the point of violence and induced starvation, etc., has a better human rights record than the United States as of now.
Gawwwwwwwwwd bless America...
-------------------- "There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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Yep, because when you look at a nation's human rights record, you pretty much start and end with their stance on gay marriage.
Gun"not that there's anything wrong with that"pilot
Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2005
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Canuckistan
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quote:Originally posted by Gunpilot: Yep, because when you look at a nation's human rights record, you pretty much start and end with their stance on gay marriage.
Wow, did you miss the point of this.
The idea isn't that gay marriage is the be-all-and-end-all of human rights. But it is one such measure.
That South Africa would allow gay marriage, when it was once considered a pariah for its human rights actions, is telling of, say, places that decide to get constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage. It's not the only thing to look for, but it is a big one.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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Hey, you can smack your forehead all you want. FoS said that South Africa has a better human rights record that the US, based on the fact that they allow gay marriage.
And you can say "it is a big (thing to look for when assessing human rights)", and maybe it is to you, but I don't think most people see it as such.
Listen, if you want to bash America's human rights record, there are some valid points to be made. But saying that the US has a worse human rights record than another country simply because it doesn't allow gay marriage is just silly.
ETA: It is NOT my intent to drag this off topic into another gay marriage-no gay marriage debate. My point is about the comparison of human rights records based on that one issue.
Gun"well, maybe there is something wrong with that"pilot
Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Gunpilot: Hey, you can smack your forehead all you want. FoS said that South Africa has a better human rights record that the US, based on the fact that they allow gay marriage.
And you can say "it is a big (thing to look for when assessing human rights)", and maybe it is to you, but I don't think most people see it as such.
Listen, if you want to bash America's human rights record, there are some valid points to be made. But saying that the US has a worse human rights record than another country simply because it doesn't allow gay marriage is just silly.
Gun"well, maybe there is something wrong with that"pilot
Well, now I'm intrigued. Can you give a comparison of the human rights records of the U.S. and South Africa at this point in time? Because South Africa's come a long way in making amends for its past, and to me this addition of marriage rights for gays does put it ahead of the U.S. Perhaps I'm not aware of some of the lingering human rights issues in South Africa and you could enlighten me.
-------------------- "But I'm adding this to my reasons why I never really liked really good looking men much. Sheesh, what good is good looking if you have to stuff a sock in his mouth." - Sara at home NFBSK, IIRC and other mysterious Snopester language Posts: 851 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Filet o' Spamamander: Let me get this straight-
South Africa, which up until 15 years ago or so, had a legally binding racial policy that kept the majority race (black Africans) as second-class citizens to a small white minority to the point of violence and induced starvation, etc., has a better human rights record than the United States as of now.
Gawwwwwwwwwd bless America...
This doesn't sound to me like "They have gay marriage so they have a better human rights record that the U.S."
This sounds to me like "Wow, South Africa had a terrible human rights record 15 years ago, and now they have improved it so much that they have EVEN instituted a certain freedom that does not exist in the U.S." (among other things).
If you want to compare free democracies you have to look at the co-called little things because there are very few so-called BIG human rights violations going on. South Africa and the U.S. both have free elections (except 2000 in Florida...), no torture (as official policy), they both allow abortion (well...for the most part...for the time being...), they don't discriminate on the basis of race (as official policy). It's not like comparing the U.S. to, say, Saudi Arabia.
So there's gay marriage. And that is a major difference. Although as I typed that last paragraph I'm thinking that the U.S. is a lot less free than I thought.
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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It is likely that the court will refuse to hear the case as premature: the Constitutional Convention still has one more meeting scheduled before terms expire. The suit is invalid on its face: it can hardly claim that the Convention has refused to act on the amendment when the Convention hasn't concluded business yet.
The problem for Romney is that by the time the Convention has concluded business, he'll be out of office and won't have standing to file the suit.
Too bad, so sad.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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Thanks MapleLeaf for spelling out what I was intending to say... it seems like most of the regular Snopesters can get around my roundabout sarcasm.
-------------------- "There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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Sara at home
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quote:Originally posted by Gunpilot: Hey, you can smack your forehead all you want. FoS said that South Africa has a better human rights record that the US, based on the fact that they allow gay marriage.
Selective cropping -- either by quoting or repeating what someone has was said -- of a post is considered bad form. You ignored and attempted to have the rest of us ignore Spam's "as of now" in order to fit your purpose. Eliminating those three little words distorts what was true meant by the sentence.
Edited for clarity.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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I am just frustrated at what Romney appears to be trying to do to the state before he leaves. There have been some questionable funding cuts made too, among other things.
My brother (and BIL, natch) is also gay but he is more active in the gay community than SO and I. However, SO and I both decided yesterday, for the first time ever, to write to our rep to let them know where we stand. It couldn't hurt, really.
AFA human rights...I am pretty sure I am human first, gay somewhere further down the list (I would call myself may other things before bringing up sexuality). Although I could be an alien, which would explain a lot.
-------------------- "Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie." -Apu (The Simpsons) Posts: 2026 | From: 10 miles South of Boston | Registered: Oct 2002
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The problem for Romney is that by the time the Convention has concluded business, he'll be out of office and won't have standing to file the suit.
Too bad, so sad.
Four Kitties
Actually he filed it as a citizen with 10 other citizens. If he did it as Governor, the AG would have had to handle it. As I recall, when he stops being Governor, he still is a citizen.
-------------------- Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History. Posts: 506 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by eif: Actually he filed it as a citizen with 10 other citizens. If he did it as Governor, the AG would have had to handle it. As I recall, when he stops being Governor, he still is a citizen.
You're right -- I sit corrected. I didn't read all the way down to the bottom of the article.
However, he wasn't a resident of the Commonwealth before he became Governor, he hasn't spent a whole lot of time in the Commonwealth since he became Governor, and I'm sure he'll be spending even less time in the Commonwealth after he's no longer Governor.
It's straight-up pandering to the pCm electorate for his presidential bid.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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However, he wasn't a resident of the Commonwealth before he became Governor, he hasn't spent a whole lot of time in the Commonwealth since he became Governor, and I'm sure he'll be spending even less time in the Commonwealth after he's no longer Governor.
It's straight-up pandering to the pCm electorate for his presidential bid.
Four Kitties [/QB]
Well he must have been a resident in 94 when he ran for US Senate against Kennedy. I believe he has been a resident since the 70's when he attended Harvard to get his MBA, though he has also spent a lot of time in Utah, and at his summer house on Lake Winnipesaukee in NH.
-------------------- Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History. Posts: 506 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2005
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Kitties, he also hasn't spent a lot of time in the commonwealth as the governor this year, according to this piece. It is an opinion piece, so I am not sure of the accuracy but I ran across it in the paper this morning and it seemed to fit.
-------------------- "Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie." -Apu (The Simpsons) Posts: 2026 | From: 10 miles South of Boston | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Esprise Me: I suspect that even Romney realizes gay marriage is here to stay (at least in Massachusetts) and is only posturing for the out-of-state bigots as part of a campaign for the presidency. Luckily for decent people everywhere, I also suspect that Romney lacks the regional support from his home state and the moderate appeal that will be necessary to win the next presidential election.
Strangely ironic, since the out of state bigots that he's pandering to(being bigots) wouldn't support his candidacy anyway since he's a Mormon.
-------------------- The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale. Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ) Posts: 244 | From: Ventura, CA | Registered: Sep 2005
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-------------------- Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History. Posts: 506 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Four Kitties: However, he wasn't a resident of the Commonwealth before he became Governor, he hasn't spent a whole lot of time in the Commonwealth since he became Governor, and I'm sure he'll be spending even less time in the Commonwealth after he's no longer Governor.
Well he must have been a resident in 94 when he ran for US Senate against Kennedy. I believe he has been a resident since the 70's when he attended Harvard to get his MBA, though he has also spent a lot of time in Utah, and at his summer house on Lake Winnipesaukee in NH.
I'm not talking about spending time at a vacation home, and I'm not talking about 1994, I'm talking about 2002. One prerequisite for running for Governor in Massachusetts is that the candidate be a resident of the Commonwealth for seven consecutive years before the election. Romney claimed Utah residency from 1999 to 2002 -- filed his taxes from Utah, listed his Salt Lake home as his primary address, had a Utah drivers license, etc. He did not return to the Commonwealth until after the Winter Olympics were over, but he ran for Governor in the fall of 2002 claiming to be a Massachusetts resident.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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I apologize for the total hijack, but I had to point out that whenever I scroll down a page containing a post by Four Kitties, I misread her sig line as "Well-behaved women seldom are sexy." It makes me do a double-take every time.
-------------------- "If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf Posts: 977 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by eif: "In light moments, Romney likes to quip that he believes marriage should be "between a man and a woman and a woman and a woman."
How charming
-------------------- They left off "Attendance at Satanic Rituals will be mandatory and everyone will be required to eat a kitten, with or without ketchup." - Mouse Posts: 65 | From: Vancouver, Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: As governor, he appointed openly gay and lesbian people to high-profile administration positions. He doubled the budget line item for the Governor's Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth, until he tried to disband it last May -- more political theater for the Republican right.
I don't think even he knows himself.
-------------------- "Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie." -Apu (The Simpsons) Posts: 2026 | From: 10 miles South of Boston | Registered: Oct 2002
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-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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