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Author Topic: Airlines say all men are threats to children
TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Why am I a bad person because I limit my care to that which I can care for (adults, older kids, animals) without disgust or hatred?

Because it's your selfish attitude that you'd rather have something die than take care of it.

--------------------
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Embra:

You may not “gender female” (interesting in itself: despite the societal pressures on you while growing up - are your "non-female" behaviours innate and resistant to nuture?), but you also don’t feel the need to have a physical sex that matches your gender.

My "non-feminine" behaviors are very much part of my personality, which is both innate and manufactured. In fact, I don't even think of them as "non-feminine" or "feminine" until the stereotypes are smashed against my face (i.e. Someone makes a comment at work about a bad haircut and say "It's just hair. It'll grow," and they look at me like i just dropped off of mars).
quote:
Originally posted by Embra:

If gender can be ascribed to nurture does that mean the incidence of TG/TS could be expected to diminish if we approach gender neutrality (imagining that to be possible)?

I think the concept of TG would dissapear, and I think the idea of TS would as well, to a great extent. There still might be folks who don't like their body, and desire the body of the other sex. I mean, who hasn't wanted to get rid of their boobies or, when they're out camping or hiking, have a nice penis. But I think it would be pretty rare.

--------------------
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Canuckistan
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quote:
However, the thought of having to care for something that can't walk or feed itself for more than a few weeks would lead to nasty, nasty things.

And if that's nasty, at least it's honest. It's what I am. I've come to terms with it. I live my life accordingly.

As long as you're aware of the nastiness of your stance, so be it.

quote:
Some people, for example, can't stand harmless snakes or spiders, and kill them given the chance. That, IMHO, is far worse than me being honest with myself about my abhorrance of helpless things and simply avoiding them.
No, you said you'd rather let the child die than take care of it long-term. So if someone close to you were to die and leave you their kid, you would rather that kid die than take care of it long-term?

It's that that makes you callous.

quote:
Why am I a bad person because I limit my care to that which I can care for (adults, older kids, animals) without disgust or hatred?
No one said you're a bad person. Quite frankly, I don't know you well enough, and even if I did, I'm in no position to tell anyone they're good or bad.

I am in a position to tell you that the view you showed is bigoted, precisely for the reason I mentioned above. If you had said, "I'd rather let a black person die than take care of him/her," it would be no different to me, IMO.

There is a world of difference between admitting you're not a good person to raise a child (something I've admitted to in this thread) and saying that you'd rather let the child die than take care of it yourself. A world of difference.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Why am I a bad person because I limit my care to that which I can care for (adults, older kids, animals) without disgust or hatred?

Because it's your selfish attitude that you'd rather have something die than take care of it.
You do understand there is a difference between "rather," which one may apply to "I'd rather have the blueberry scone than the chocolate" and "cannot" which one may apply to "I cannot do this because I do not have the ability to do so, due to various personality traits"

--------------------
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GenYus
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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
I am in a position to tell you that the view you showed is bigoted, precisely for the reason I mentioned above. If you had said, "I'd rather let a black person die than take care of him/her," it would be no different to me, IMO.

Then you are wrong. If she had no trouble taking care of a white helpless person, but was unable to take care of a black helpless person, then she would be bigoted. But that is because black vs white is the operational difference and has nothing to do with how you care for a helpless person. But since helpless is the operational difference in Ryda's case, it is not a bigoted decision.

If a casting director is hiring for a Civil War picture and doesn't cast black actors for the plantation owner, that is not bigoted because skin color is an operation difference for acting, especially for the Civil War.

quote:
There is a world of difference between admitting you're not a good person to raise a child (something I've admitted to in this thread) and saying that you'd rather let the child die than take care of it yourself. A world of difference.

I expect everyone in this thread who has critizied Ryda to take their budget, remove all non-essential expenditures like cell-phones, cable, internet, etc and send all of that money for the rest of your life to support the dying children in Africa. Because otherwise you are letting helpless children die rather than take long-term care of them.

--------------------
IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
No, you said you'd rather let the child die than take care of it long-term. So if someone close to you were to die and leave you their kid, you would rather that kid die than take care of it long-term?

It's that that makes you callous.

In that very unlikely case, I would call upon the assistance of the system and shunt the burden to someone who wouldn't end up maltreating it.

quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
I am in a position to tell you that the view you showed is bigoted, precisely for the reason I mentioned above. If you had said, "I'd rather let a black person die than take care of him/her," it would be no different to me, IMO.

Oh, bull pucky. It has no bigotry whatsoever. A black person isn't quatitativly different than a white person in terms of care. An infant is quite different than an adult in terms of care

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
You do understand there is a difference between "rather," which one may apply to "I'd rather have the blueberry scone than the chocolate" and "cannot" which one may apply to "I cannot do this because I do not have the ability to do so, due to various personality traits"

Why thank you so very much for pointing out the difference, I do not know what I'd ever do if someone weren't around to point out the subtleties of the english language to me. [Roll Eyes]

All snarkiness aside, you said you would rather not you cannot. You would rather make the decision for a "helpless thing" to die than suffer any imposition on yourself. You say you own pets, which are helpless things. No matter how self sufficient a housepet becomes, it is still helples, it is still dependent upon you. So to blame any sort of caring on a personality trait is simply a copout on your part.

A racist who admits to being racist is still a racist.

--------------------
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
I am in a position to tell you that the view you showed is bigoted, precisely for the reason I mentioned above. If you had said, "I'd rather let a black person die than take care of him/her," it would be no different to me, IMO.

Oh, bull pucky. It has no bigotry whatsoever. A black person isn't quatitativly different than a white person in terms of care. An infant is quite different than an adult in terms of care
Okay. Instead of substituting "black person," substitute "person with a chronic ilness." Or "quadraplegic."

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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GenYus
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ETA:
quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
All snarkiness aside, you said you would rather not you cannot. You would rather make the decision for a "helpless thing" to die than suffer any imposition on yourself.

Wrong. Read her post. It said "long term". She would be willing to take care of something for the short term in order to get it to people who are suited for taking care of it for the long term. It is not about imposition, it is about inability to care for something for the long term.

quote:
You say you own pets, which are helpless things. No matter how self sufficient a housepet becomes, it is still helples, it is still dependent upon you. So to blame any sort of caring on a personality trait is simply a copout on your part.
Any living thing that can be left by itself for 3 days with nothing more than a bowl full of food and extra water is hardly helpless. Cats and dogs take care of their own feeding, own drinking, and own toiliet needs (assuming a dog door). Hardly helpless.

quote:
A racist who admits to being racist is still a racist.

Knock it the NFBSK off. Ryda has said nothing to indicate that she is racist and it is far beyond the pale for you to insert that implication. Why don't you say that Hitler was for letting helpless things die and be done with it?

--------------------
IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
I am in a position to tell you that the view you showed is bigoted, precisely for the reason I mentioned above. If you had said, "I'd rather let a black person die than take care of him/her," it would be no different to me, IMO.

Oh, bull pucky. It has no bigotry whatsoever. A black person isn't quatitativly different than a white person in terms of care. An infant is quite different than an adult in terms of care
Okay. Instead of substituting "black person," substitute "person with a chronic ilness." Or "quadraplegic."
Which I could do without question. If someone had a chronic illness, I couldn't care for them. I watched ex-SO nurse his mother for two years, which she died of cancer. In his place, I'd have OD'd her long before she died, even then, but especially now, watching the aftermath of her death and the toll it took on him. And I could never, ever care for a quad, even if it was my fiance/cum husband. He'd be in LTC as soon as I could get him in there.

Personally, I just don't form strong enough bonds with humans to care for them like that.

I've admitted before that I don't find too much value in humans for the most part, and tend to find more value in animals. Sorry.

--------------------
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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Oh, and for the record, I am 100% against making it legal to kill the helpless. I just don't want to have anything long-term to do with them.

--------------------
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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Any living thing that can be left by itself for 3 days with nothing more than a bowl full of food and extra water is hardly helpless. Cats and dogs take care of their own feeding, own drinking, and own toiliet needs (assuming a dog door). Hardly helpless.

Yet nowhere near self sustaining, and still largely dependent upon the care of a human. Far more helpless than not I'd imagine.

quote:
Knock it the NFBSK off. Ryda has said nothing to indicate that she is racist and it is far beyond the pale for you to insert that implication. Why don't you say that Hitler was for letting helpless things die and be done with it?

I never said she was a racist. Not once did I bring up race. I was merely equating her admission that she has no compassion for humanity as if that somehow absolves her of us calling her out on it to the fact that a person who admits to being racist is still a racist. However, I will grant you that in light of the comments of bigotry (not entirely unwarranted I feel) that it came off in the wrong light, but the sentiment behind the words is still accurate.

Would you prefer a fool who admits to being a fool is still a fool?

--------------------
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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GenYus
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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Any living thing that can be left by itself for 3 days with nothing more than a bowl full of food and extra water is hardly helpless. Cats and dogs take care of their own feeding, own drinking, and own toiliet needs (assuming a dog door). Hardly helpless.

Yet nowhere near self sustaining, and still largely dependent upon the care of a human. Far more helpless than not I'd imagine.
Then why are there so many feral cats and dogs in my neighborhood?

quote:
quote:
Knock it the NFBSK off. Ryda has said nothing to indicate that she is racist and it is far beyond the pale for you to insert that implication. Why don't you say that Hitler was for letting helpless things die and be done with it?
I never said she was a racist. Not once did I bring up race. I was merely equating her admission that she has no compassion for humanity as if that somehow absolves her of us calling her out on it to the fact that a person who admits to being racist is still a racist. However, I will grant you that in light of the comments of bigotry (not entirely unwarranted I feel) that it came off in the wrong light, but the sentiment behind the words is still accurate.

Would you prefer a fool who admits to being a fool is still a fool?

I would prefer that you didn't bring up insulting things that have nothing to do with the topic. Why couldn't you just say, "A callous person who admits they are callous is still callous."?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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TwoGuyswithaHat
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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
I would prefer that you didn't bring up insulting things that have nothing to do with the topic. Why couldn't you just say, "A callous person who admits they are callous is still callous."?

I could have done that and probably should have chosen my words better. I merely went with the most abhorrent attitude that came to mind to compare this abhorrent attitude to.

I in no way meant to imply that Ryda is a racist just to equate the parallels in attitude. If I came across as giving the impression of accusing her of racism, for that I apologize.

--------------------
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
if we approach gender neutrality ...
Probably bad form to quote myself, but I keep hearing these words in the tones of HAL:

"Approaching gender neutrality... Approaching gender neutrality... Warning... Warning..."

To dive headlong into the Ryda-is-a-meanie debate, I really don't have a problem with someone who fairly and squarely admits that they do not want to be put in a position where they have to care for a helpless person. I'm not going to call her if I want a babysitter, but she's hardly the vanguard of some destructive battalion of heartless harridans.

--------------------
I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Oh, yeah, and can all y'all (Canuk, Lanie, 2guys, etc.) just say "Ryda is a bad, bad person and should be burned at the stake" and get on with the discussion? Cause frankly, it's totally OT to discuss just how evil I am.

--------------------
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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Cause frankly, it's totally OT to discuss

Thread topics evolve, and rarely, if ever remain static on one topic through its entire course, especially a thread that goes on for 9+ pages.

--------------------
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Oh, yeah, and can all y'all (Canuk, Lanie, 2guys, etc.) just say "Ryda is a bad, bad person and should be burned at the stake" and get on with the discussion? Cause frankly, it's totally OT to discuss just how evil I am.

I'll refrain from asking any more questions if you'll drop the persecution complex. I made one post on your comment, and I said nothing about your character.

--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Cause frankly, it's totally OT to discuss

Thread topics evolve, and rarely, if ever remain static on one topic through its entire course, especially a thread that goes on for 9+ pages.
Duh. However, picking on me as a person, rather than addressing something in a more general and theoretical matter gets boring.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
I'll refrain from asking any more questions if you'll drop the persecution complex. I made one post on your comment, and I said nothing about your character.

Questions would be fine. Making assumptions on my worthiness as a human being based on one throwaway comment is annoying.
I didn't mean to single you out, Lanie. I apologize for my snarkiness.

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Doug4.7
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This thread is a good example of what I would call the abuse of the term "racist".

Step 1: Person "A" writes that they hate people who play loud music.
Step 2: Person "B" writes that if you replace "people who play loud music" with "blacks" or "Jews", then it becomes a racist statement.
Step 3: Person "C" (who may be person "B", but doesn't have to be) then declares that person "A" is racist.

Note, you can replace "bigot" with "racist" and get the same results.

--------------------
And now for something completely different...

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Canuckistan
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Wow, I go away for one hour and all hell breaks loose.

GenYus:

quote:
But since helpless is the operational difference in Ryda's case, it is not a bigoted decision.
Sure it is. Just a different category.

quote:
I expect everyone in this thread who has critizied Ryda to take their budget, remove all non-essential expenditures like cell-phones, cable, internet, etc and send all of that money for the rest of your life to support the dying children in Africa. Because otherwise you are letting helpless children die rather than take long-term care of them.
Strawman. I never said she should take care of all of them. But she said she would let any last one of them die rather than take care of them herself. Had she just said I'd prefer not to take care of children, I would have left it alone. That whole let them die attitude is the problem. So, please, knock it off yourself, okay?

Ryda:

quote:
In that very unlikely case, I would call upon the assistance of the system and shunt the burden to someone who wouldn't end up maltreating it.
That's not what you said earlier. But I'm beginning to sound like a broken record at this point.

quote:
Oh, yeah, and can all y'all (Canuk, Lanie, 2guys, etc.) just say "Ryda is a bad, bad person and should be burned at the stake" and get on with the discussion?
What Lainie said. Please drop the persecution complex.

quote:
Personally, I just don't form strong enough bonds with humans to care for them like that.

I've admitted before that I don't find too much value in humans for the most part, and tend to find more value in animals. Sorry.

Which is certainly your right. But it still makes you callous. And, yes, to an extent, bigoted against people as a whole. But you've admitted as much in your post, and if it's uniform like that, then whatever. I don't have to like it, but it certainly is your right.

--------------------
People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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TwoGuyswithaHat
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Questions would be fine. Making assumptions on my worthiness as a human being based on one throwaway comment is annoying.

I know what you mean, defending the comments a person is so passé, why next we'll expect to hold politicians to account for the same thing! Oh, the horror.

--------------------
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Doug4.7 said
Step 3: Person "C" (who may be person "B", but doesn't have to be) then declares that person "A" is racist.

Quite often the implication at Step 2 is enough to sour things all by itself. It's not so much that Person A is being called a racist per se, but that they are being compared to one in a way that makes their hatred of loud music seem morally akin to racism.

Anyway, can't you all get back to talking about the important matter of where sweet, innocent children should sit on aeroplanes? Surely that's what's important here? Have you people lost all sense of perspective?!!

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I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Actually, Canuck, I think you are incorrect here. Ryda did, in fact, in her very first post say "long-term care." She did not say that she would not call the proper emergency number if she saw an infant in the snow.

And Two Guys, I think you're just out of bounds altogether.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:

Ryda:

quote:
In that very unlikely case, I would call upon the assistance of the system and shunt the burden to someone who wouldn't end up maltreating it.
That's not what you said earlier. But I'm beginning to sound like a broken record at this point.
What I said was, and "I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term." I don't see how that contridicts anything I've said since.

But. Whatever. Perhaps I'm taking it too personally.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Perhaps I'm taking it too personally
Typical girl. [Razz]

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I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
And Two Guys, I think you're just out of bounds altogether.

Why? No snarkiness, genuine curiosity on my part.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Actually, Canuck, I think you are incorrect here. Ryda did, in fact, in her very first post say "long-term care." She did not say that she would not call the proper emergency number if she saw an infant in the snow.

Well, who asked you? [Razz]

On a more serious note, it's a matter of semantics, but she has clarified her point, I guess. It did sound like she wouldn't bother even doing that. If she says otherwise, I will have to accept her word on it.

quote:
Ryda says:
But. Whatever. Perhaps I'm taking it too personally.

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. From my position, though, your stand is still very callous.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:

quote:
Ryda says:
But. Whatever. Perhaps I'm taking it too personally.

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. From my position, though, your stand is still very callous.
Fair enough. I think of being callous as acting in a way that's abnormally insensitive in general, and I'm not, but, as you said before, YMMV.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
And Two Guys, I think you're just out of bounds altogether.

Why? No snarkiness, genuine curiosity on my part.
I would say that calling anybody on this board a "poor excuse for a human being" is remarkably over the top.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Actually, Canuck, I think you are incorrect here. Ryda did, in fact, in her very first post say "long-term care." She did not say that she would not call the proper emergency number if she saw an infant in the snow.

Well, who asked you? [Razz]

On a more serious note, it's a matter of semantics, but she has clarified her point, I guess. It did sound like she wouldn't bother even doing that. If she says otherwise, I will have to accept her word on it.


But she didn't say what you think she said, though. That's what I am taking issue with.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
Strawman. I never said she should take care of all of them. But she said she would let any last one of them die rather than take care of them herself. Had she just said I'd prefer not to take care of children, I would have left it alone. That whole let them die attitude is the problem. So, please, knock it off yourself, okay?

How is that a strawman? If someone isn't helping out children that are dying, then they are (passively) letting those children die. That decision could be made because:
  1. They don't have the money
  2. They don't think they can help
  3. They don't want to give up their luxuries
  4. They just don't care about other people
  5. They don't want to commit to the long term care of another person
  6. They don't know that there is an issue

#1 is not the case because my point excluded it by referring to extra money. #2 assumes that they can't give enough to help even one other person and is probably not the case. #3 and #4 would (to me) be even worse that what Ryda had said. #5 is what Ryda said and #6 is unlikely with all of the attention it has gotten.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I would say that calling anybody on this board a "poor excuse for a human being" is remarkably over the top.

I did say that it was based upon her attitude that she'd rather let something die. Was I harsh? Absolutely I was. But like I said, based upon that attitude I don't think it was entirely out of line or over the top insomuch is about ability for compassion for others, especially those weaker than us is an integral part of what makes us human.

Saying you would rather something die shows a severe lack of humanity in my opinion.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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AnglRdr:

quote:
But she didn't say what you think she said, though. That's what I am taking issue with.
I addressed that. And to repeat things would make sound like even more of a broken record than I already have in this thread.

GenYus:

It's a strawman because I'm not suggesting that she help every child in need. Also, it's not always possible to effect change abroad, especially when governments or insurgents, for instance, might not be receptive to the help from outside. What I am shocked at is that given the choice, Ryda would actively walk away. But I won't explain why again. The whole broken record bit, which is itself beginning to sound like a broken record.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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