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Author Topic: Airlines say all men are threats to children
El Camino
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Embra:
quote:
NIck Theodorakis said:

Nevertheless, he never felt comfortable as a female and later (after he learned about his childhood sex reversal) he reverted to being male.

This aspect of trans-gender/trans-sexual (eek! see - now I don't know which term is most appropriate) people's experience has always interested me.
I think it's akin to how people decide in which social group they feel most comfortable. I'd assume a good portion of us had a specific clique in high school or before (i.e. the math/comp nerds, the artsy types, the popular kids, however things broke down). We felt more comfortable in one group than in another. It has alot to do with individual personality and preference. Some people are going to square completely with the gender assigned to their sex. Most are going to pick one thing, and discard the next. Some are going to go to the opposite end of the spectrum.
That's one possibility. Another is that there actually are innate differences, and transgendered people are "mistmatched" in some way. It doesn't necessarily have to be genetic - pregnancy conditions, early trauma, and all sorts of other things could cause these mistmatches.

Frankly, I'm boggled by the idea of being transgendered and don't understand it at all.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
Another is that there actually are innate differences, and transgendered people are "mistmatched" in some way. It doesn't necessarily have to be genetic - pregnancy conditions, early trauma, and all sorts of other things could cause these mistmatches.

Frankly, I'm boggled by the idea of being transgendered and don't understand it at all.

So, then, the question remains, EC, what would you make of one like me, who is sexed female, but really doesn't gender female. I have far more stereotypical "male" traits than my SO, who is (oh, yeah, baby) certainly sexed male, and has more steretypitcal female traits than I. Nor is it all that uncommon amoungst the people I know.

Or what about those who are perfectly split. Or those that mix and match?

Once again, I still have yet to see one example of a truly innate trait to one sex, and that sex only.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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annabohly
Jingle Bell Hock


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[Razz] [Razz]

Well he said feel free!!!!

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And always remember....when life hands you Lemons, ask for tequila and salt and call me over !!!!!

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
So are you just engaging in the debate for fun or to try and convice the undecideds? If the former, then whatever floats your boat. If the latter, then it might affect how the undecides view each side.


I got dragged into this by The Evil Ryda. I didn't want to talk about it at all. I'm totally innocent. She corrupted me. Her fault. [Big Grin]

quote:
PS. I didn't mean to sound like I was lecturing. Feel free to stick your tongue out and ignore me entirely.
I've chosen [Razz]

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
So, then, the question remains, EC, what would you make of one like me, who is sexed female, but really doesn't gender female. I have far more stereotypical "male" traits than my SO, who is (oh, yeah, baby) certainly sexed male, and has more steretypitcal female traits than I. Nor is it all that uncommon amoungst the people I know.

Or what about those who are perfectly split. Or those that mix and match?

Once again, I still have yet to see one example of a truly innate trait to one sex, and that sex only.

And you won't because that wouldn't assure the survival of the species. There would have to be ...shall we say for want of terms....aggressive women and passive women. Each would survive/reproduce in situations there the other would fail.

There would, of course, be variations within each group with the extremes at the ends and a lot grouped toward the center, possible a continuum with bell curves on each half.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
So are you just engaging in the debate for fun or to try and convice the undecideds? If the former, then whatever floats your boat. If the latter, then it might affect how the undecides view each side.


I got dragged into this by The Evil Ryda. I didn't want to talk about it at all. I'm totally innocent. She corrupted me. Her fault. [Big Grin]

Ohhh. I want this for a sig! That's the nicest thing about me anyone has ever said! sniff.... [Big Grin]

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
There would have to be ...shall we say for want of terms....aggressive women and passive women. Each would survive/reproduce in situations there the other would fail.

There would, of course, be variations within each group with the extremes at the ends and a lot grouped toward the center, possible a continuum with bell curves on each half.

So, then, what is the use of determining that "aggressive" is a "male" trait, and "passive" is a "female" trait?

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
So are you just engaging in the debate for fun or to try and convice the undecideds? If the former, then whatever floats your boat. If the latter, then it might affect how the undecides view each side.


I got dragged into this by The Evil Ryda. I didn't want to talk about it at all. I'm totally innocent. She corrupted me. Her fault. [Big Grin]

Ohhh. I want this for a sig! That's the nicest thing about me anyone has ever said! sniff.... [Big Grin]
Oh god. It's yours but don't get glurgy on me. [Roll Eyes]

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
There would have to be ...shall we say for want of terms....aggressive women and passive women. Each would survive/reproduce in situations there the other would fail.

There would, of course, be variations within each group with the extremes at the ends and a lot grouped toward the center, possible a continuum with bell curves on each half.

So, then, what is the use of determining that "aggressive" is a "male" trait, and "passive" is a "female" trait?
Because we are sterotyping, not speaking in absolutes. And the word "aggressive" has certain connotations when used to describe males than females. An "aggressive" female conjures up a woman who won't take crap from anyone; an "aggressive" male conjures up a physically aggressive individual. Absent physiological abnormalty or psychological damage, the males will be the most extreme in the aggressive and females will be the most extreme in passive. It isn't black and white, it's all shades of gray, but there is a dichotomy.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
Absent physiological abnormalty or psychological damage, the males will be the most extreme in the aggressive and females will be the most extreme in passive.

Will they be? Perhaps. Although that's just as easily chalked up to the teachings of a culture than to innate traits.

And, oddly enough, a current trend that ethnographers and sociologists have noted is in the increase of aggressive females, particularly adolescents. If it is innate, it appears that we females are beginning to catch up.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
Absent physiological abnormalty or psychological damage, the males will be the most extreme in the aggressive and females will be the most extreme in passive.

Will they be? Perhaps. Although that's just as easily chalked up to the teachings of a culture than to innate traits.

And, oddly enough, a current trend that ethnographers and sociologists have noted is in the increase of aggressive females, particularly adolescents. If it is innate, it appears that we females are beginning to catch up.

Or we are teaching our girls to be aggressive and violent, because, as you and thistle have put forth, we can teach people to "overcome" evolution.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
Absent physiological abnormalty or psychological damage, the males will be the most extreme in the aggressive and females will be the most extreme in passive.

Will they be? Perhaps. Although that's just as easily chalked up to the teachings of a culture than to innate traits.

And, oddly enough, a current trend that ethnographers and sociologists have noted is in the increase of aggressive females, particularly adolescents. If it is innate, it appears that we females are beginning to catch up.

Or we are teaching our girls to be aggressive and violent, because, as you and thistle have put forth, we can teach people to "overcome" evolution.
Seriously, I get that that there MIGHT be a bio basis. I just haven't seen any good enough evidence to support that idea. And, as I prefer to think of and treat people as individuals rather than stereotypes, I'm gonna stick with cultural, since we can all agree that that has a definitive effect. Also, since i see things as being on a continuum, I tend towards ideas that allow that continuum to be expressed.

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term.

Wow. Just ... wow. I'm utterly speechless that someone would feel this way.

Just ... wow.

quote:
I don't fit with the gender that is assigned to my sex. Despite the fact that I was strongly gendered female as a child. So, then, does that make me not female? Does it make me male? Or a something inbetween?
I'm just curious: does your gender help determine whether you rather letting helpless lifeforms die than take care of them?

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term.

I have been biting my tongue all day since reading this. I wasn't going to comment, but since others already have; with an abhorrent attitude like that, you're a poor excuse for a human being.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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El Camino
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term.

I have been biting my tongue all day since reading this. I wasn't going to comment, but since others already have; with an abhorrent attitude like that, you're a poor excuse for a human being.
Frankly, she's just actually admitting that she acts in a way that many of us actually do act, but don't go around talking about it.

For example, there are lost of kids out there in need of homes. Although most probably won't actually die, they could seriously benefit from a home, and a few probably will die. And how many of us actually go around adopting kids or having foster kids? A few, and they're saints for the most part, but most of us do not.

And when you start talking about "helpless things" that aren't human, well you see it all the time. There are a lot of abused pets in animal shelters that get put down because no one wants them. Many of us could, if were committed, take care of one of these pets, but choose not to.

While it doesn't sound pretty, I don't see it as being unusual when we talk about the behavior she describes.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term.

I have been biting my tongue all day since reading this. I wasn't going to comment, but since others already have; with an abhorrent attitude like that, you're a poor excuse for a human being.
I think a whole lot of people abhor helpless things. I think a whole lot of those people become parents.

It is *those* people who are poor excuses for human beings.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Canuckistan
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quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
Frankly, she's just actually admitting that she acts in a way that many of us actually do act, but don't go around talking about it.

For example, there are lost of kids out there in need of homes. Although most probably won't actually die, they could seriously benefit from a home, and a few probably will die. And how many of us actually go around adopting kids or having foster kids? A few, and they're saints for the most part, but most of us do not.

I think there's a marked difference between not wanting to raise a child and saying you'd let a helpless life die rather than take care of it. I personally don't want children now; I don't think I have the time or energy to devote to them.

I'm also the one who becomes guardian of my nephew should something happen to his parents. If I had to, I would do it. I would not let him die simply because he's a helpless 2-year-old. That is the last thing I want to see happen to him.

There is a marked difference between saying you might not be ready for a child, and saying you'd rather let the child die.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term.

I have been biting my tongue all day since reading this. I wasn't going to comment, but since others already have; with an abhorrent attitude like that, you're a poor excuse for a human being.
I think a whole lot of people abhor helpless things. I think a whole lot of those people become parents.

It is *those* people who are poor excuses for human beings.

I personally think both points of view are rather abhorrent, myself. YMMV, as always.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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El Camino
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
Another is that there actually are innate differences, and transgendered people are "mistmatched" in some way. It doesn't necessarily have to be genetic - pregnancy conditions, early trauma, and all sorts of other things could cause these mistmatches.

Frankly, I'm boggled by the idea of being transgendered and don't understand it at all.

So, then, the question remains, EC, what would you make of one like me, who is sexed female, but really doesn't gender female. I have far more stereotypical "male" traits than my SO, who is (oh, yeah, baby) certainly sexed male, and has more steretypitcal female traits than I. Nor is it all that uncommon amoungst the people I know.
I'm guessing this is part of the problem in our previous discussion. When I talk about real, biological gender differences, I don't mean stereotypes. When you're talking about stereotypes, for the most part you're right, and they are arbitrarily socialized rather than containing a biological basis.

Some stereotypes probably have a biological root, but the biological cause does not directly lead to a certain behavior in our current, rather unnatural society.

Basically, here's what I think. People are very malleable and susceptible to social influences. There is absolutely no doubt about that in my mind. You can sort of think of people as, I don't know, some sort of clay, which is molded by society. Where genetic differences are manifest is in the character of the clay itself - how it begins, how it responds to certain "external forces," all sorts of properties. Different people, like different types of clay, will react differently to the same stimuili. This is how I think of all genetic differences, not just male or female ones. They affect where you start, and how you react to stimuli, but different stimuli can still form veyr different people given the same starting material.

Sex differences are, if you will, one class of properties of the clay that are different between the two groups. These different properties may make it more likely to end up a certain way. However, there are a lot of other differences in the clay (other genetic differences) and other stimuli that affect how we end up.

Now, clay is obviously a ridiculously simple metaphor. The properties of different types of clay don't even begin to come close to being comparable to the range of genetic differences between people. But you (might) get my point.

Basically, different endpoints is not evidence that there aren't significant and important trends in the starting material. This just makes it much more difficult to work out what the real, biologically based differences are.

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Freshman
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term.

I have been biting my tongue all day since reading this. I wasn't going to comment, but since others already have; with an abhorrent attitude like that, you're a poor excuse for a human being.
I think a whole lot of people abhor helpless things. I think a whole lot of those people become parents.

It is *those* people who are poor excuses for human beings.

What do you mean about parents, Anglrdr?

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I've heard a lot of people comment that they don't like helpless things, including babies. It must be a fairly common feeling. I don't think it means a person is "bad". Several people have told me they felt this way about their own babies even for a short time after they were born. But all of the parents I know who admitted having that feeling became great parents. So I think it's probably a common feeling that doesn't usually interfere with good parenthood. I would even go so far as to suggest that this feeling serves some biological "purpose". It takes a lot of resources to raise a helpless thing and, in the wild, parents have to either take on that burden or reject it. So I don't think we should debase people, even parents, who admit this. (Just as a disclaimer, I have never felt that way myself.)
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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Ryda Wong said:
Some people are going to square completely with the gender assigned to their sex. Most are going to pick one thing, and discard the next. Some are going to go to the opposite end of the spectrum.

quote:
So, then, the question remains, EC, what would you make of one like me, who is sexed female, but really doesn't gender female.
I was more interested in the question about the feeling of a need to be sexed one way or the other, to accord with one’s gender.

You may not “gender female” (interesting in itself: despite the societal pressures on you while growing up - are your "non-female" behaviours innate and resistant to nuture?), but you also don’t feel the need to have a physical sex that matches your gender.

If gender can be ascribed to nurture does that mean the incidence of TG/TS could be expected to diminish if we approach gender neutrality (imagining that to be possible)?

Sorry to backtrack a few posts - pesky GMT...

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I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
That certainly isn't the case with most of the families I know about. While I know families who don't appear in front of each other dressed in antyhing less than pajamas, I know far more families in which bathroom sharing -- as described by Mosh -- is very much the norm. Perhaps that's simply because I live in an old city where most houses have one bathroom.

Firstly, I want to point out that we definitely did more than the abthroom-sharing; nudity was encourage too. As a very personal aside, and possibly with TMI, I got quite a shock when I encountered my first uncut male genitalia; turns out my dad is circumcised but no one ever told me and I thought they all look like his [Eek!]

ANYWAY, no one needed to know that! [Big Grin]

I just wanted to add that I don't think my family were anything like the norm over here. Everyone I've ever felt comfortable enough to mention the bathroom sharing or nudity to (which now seems to include the entire internet, whoops [Wink] ) has been horrified at the thought of seeing their parents naked or their sister having a wee, etc.

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:

I just wanted to add that I don't think my family were anything like the norm over here. Everyone I've ever felt comfortable enough to mention the bathroom sharing or nudity to (which now seems to include the entire internet, whoops [Wink] ) has been horrified at the thought of seeing their parents naked or their sister having a wee, etc.

I've had the opposite reaction. Most people who I confided in responded with a no-big-deal attitude. Those who don't live like that apparently know others who do.

I say "confided" because this was like our family's little secret that wasn't talked about. The impression was that every other family was far more modest than we were. But that turned not to be the reality. So while I use to "confide" it, I now just "mention" it.

It is becoming less common now as people have multi bathroom homes, especially if the parents have their own bathroom within their bedroom suite.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
I've heard a lot of people comment that they don't like helpless things, including babies. It must be a fairly common feeling. I don't think it means a person is "bad". Several people have told me they felt this way about their own babies even for a short time after they were born. But all of the parents I know who admitted having that feeling became great parents. So I think it's probably a common feeling that doesn't usually interfere with good parenthood. I would even go so far as to suggest that this feeling serves some biological "purpose". It takes a lot of resources to raise a helpless thing and, in the wild, parents have to either take on that burden or reject it. So I don't think we should debase people, even parents, who admit this.

But that's not what I was taking issue with, Ganzfeld. There are times that we do need to get away from kids, granted. But that's worlds away from what Ryda said.

I was shocked that Ryda said she would rather let a child die than take care of it. Which is cold, callous, and rather bigoted, IMO.

What if she had said, "I'd rather let a black/gay/woman/other person die than take care of it, because I don't like them"? Wouldn't she still be espousing bigoted views?

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
I was shocked that Ryda said she would rather let a child die than take care of it. Which is cold, callous, and rather bigoted, IMO.

I agree. Note that she didn't say she'd rather die than take care of a child: she'd rather have the child die than take care of it.

quote:
What if she had said, "I'd rather let a black/gay/woman/other person die than take care of it, because I don't like them"? Wouldn't she still be espousing bigoted views?
Exactly.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Freshman:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I'm a bio female with no maternal drive. I abhore helpless things, to the point that I'd rather have them die than take care of them long-term.

I have been biting my tongue all day since reading this. I wasn't going to comment, but since others already have; with an abhorrent attitude like that, you're a poor excuse for a human being.
I think a whole lot of people abhor helpless things. I think a whole lot of those people become parents.

It is *those* people who are poor excuses for human beings.

What do you mean about parents, Anglrdr?
I'm not surewhat you're asking, Freshman. Do you not know how people become parents?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Freshman:
What do you mean about parents, Anglrdr?

I'm not surewhat you're asking, Freshman. Do you not know how people become parents?
Given the attitudes some people have toward sex ed, it should be no surprise that this day has finally arrived.

You see, Freshman, when mommy loves daddy ... [lol]

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Richard W
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When I was a fresher we were all given a leaflet in our pigeon holes called The Little Blue Book that explained the facts of life. (This is true!)

Most of us thought this was hilarious - my parents gave me a similar book when I was about 6 - but one of my friends did admit that she'd learnt quite a lot from it...

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
I was shocked that Ryda said she would rather let a child die than take care of it. Which is cold, callous, and rather bigoted, IMO.

I agree. Note that she didn't say she'd rather die than take care of a child: she'd rather have the child die than take care of it.
Note that she actually said "helpless things" and mentioned long-term caring. So if g-you are imagining her ignoring a crying baby in the snow, g-you are wrong.

And how is her attitude any different than leaving animals in the shelter? If the animal isn't adopted, it will be euthenized. So if g-you don't adopt a non-adopted animal from the shelter (and have the means to take care of it) g-you are saying that you'd rather the animal be euthenized than take long-term care of it.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Canuckistan
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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Note that she actually said "helpless things" and mentioned long-term caring. So if g-you are imagining her ignoring a crying baby in the snow, g-you are wrong.

And what is more helpless than a child in the snow?

quote:
And how is her attitude any different than leaving animals in the shelter? If the animal isn't adopted, it will be euthenized. So if g-you don't adopt a non-adopted animal from the shelter (and have the means to take care of it) g-you are saying that you'd rather the animal be euthenized than take long-term care of it.
I am in favour of spaying and neutering animals; anyone who doesn't is rather irresponsible, IMO.

But that's an aside. What she was saying is that she'd rather let a "helpless thing" die than take care of it. That's a rather abhorrent thing to say. At least with the shelter, there's a chance the animal will have a better life. I'm looking for a better system, too, but at least it's a start. Given what she posted, I'm not sure Ryda would be even in favour of that.

No one is suggesting that anyone should take care of a lifeform if they don't have the means to do it. But Ryda's statement was much more callous than that; and I find that very objectionable.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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BringTheNoise
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Note that she actually said "helpless things" and mentioned long-term caring. So if g-you are imagining her ignoring a crying baby in the snow, g-you are wrong.

And what is more helpless than a child in the snow?

You are missing the important part. Ryda said she'd rather let something die rather than look after it long-term. By that, I assume that she'd take a crying baby in the snow to the nearest hospital/doctor, etc, but wouldn't want to be a "stand-in" parent.

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"The United States Government: significantly less cruel and sadistic than the Taliban." - Dara

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Canuckistan
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quote:
Originally posted by BringTheNoise:
By that, I assume that she'd take a crying baby in the snow to the nearest hospital/doctor, etc, but wouldn't want to be a "stand-in" parent.

She said she'd rather let it die. That, to me, means she wouldn't even do that. That would involve caring.

ETA: I understand what you're getting at, BTN. I still think what she said was bigoted and callous.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
quote:
Originally posted by BringTheNoise:
By that, I assume that she'd take a crying baby in the snow to the nearest hospital/doctor, etc, but wouldn't want to be a "stand-in" parent.

She said she'd rather let it die. That, to me, means she wouldn't even do that. That would involve caring.

ETA: I understand what you're getting at, BTN. I still think what she said was bigoted and callous.

actually, you are 100% incorrect. You got caught on the shocking image and the unimaginable lack of nurturing instinct and didn't pay attention to what I was actually saying.

The long-term thing was important, as was the helpless thing. I am not, in any way, shape, or form, suited to care for something helpless long-term. I'd end up finding some way to rid myself of it. I'm perfectly capable of assisting something for a while, as long as I can quickly rid myself of it. So, no, I wouldn't leave an infant in the snow, or in a hot car, or starving, etc. I just wouldn't take it to myself and nurture it. It's one of the reasons that, even though SO would quite happily be the primary caretaker, I'd never consider natural birth. If the result was in some way grossly disabled, I couldn't deal with it.

Interestingly enough, I have always participated in animal rescue, even of young pups and kittens. Why? They don't stay helpless for very long at all. Give 'em a few weeks, they can eat by themselves, walk, etc. However, the thought of having to care for something that can't walk or feed itself for more than a few weeks would lead to nasty, nasty things.

And if that's nasty, at least it's honest. It's what I am. I've come to terms with it. I live my life accordingly. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Some people hate dogs, so they don't include them in their lives. Some people, for example, can't stand harmless snakes or spiders, and kill them given the chance. That, IMHO, is far worse than me being honest with myself about my abhorrance of helpless things and simply avoiding them.

Why am I a bad person because I limit my care to that which I can care for (adults, older kids, animals) without disgust or hatred?

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Note that she actually said "helpless things" and mentioned long-term caring.

She may have said "helpless things" but she meant children, insomuch by her own admission here, she smokes outside so as not to endager the health of her own pets, which are pretty helpless things.

ETA: So it's apparent her callous and bigoted attitude abohorration of "helpless things" doesn't extend to the "helpless thing" that is a pet, but seemingly only a child.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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