quote:Originally posted by Freshman: anglrdr: I meant what do you mean about people who dislike helpless things become parents?
Meet me in my hometown or at a family reunion some time, and I'll show you what I believe she means (i.e. the default childbearers, which are legion).
Or, you can just scan the net for news stories about dead, tortured babies.
Hmmm. the latter option would probably be more fun, but in the former, you'd at least get kick-a** food.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Freshman: anglrdr: I meant what do you mean about people who dislike helpless things become parents?
I still don't understand the question. People who dislike helpless thing still probably engage in intercourse.
Perhaps if you ask the question in a different way, I might be able to get you the answer you're looking for.
TwoGuys:
quote:But I did apologize for giving the impression that I thought Ryda was a racist, that was a poor choice of words and I regret that analogy.
I'm not talking about calling her a racist, though. I am talking about calling her a "poor excuse for a human being." That, as far as I have been able to tell, you have yet to apologize for.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by AnglRdr: I'm not talking about calling her a racist, though. I am talking about calling her a "poor excuse for a human being." That, as far as I have been able to tell, you have yet to apologize for.
It was perhaps a poor choice of words to call Ryda a "poor excuse for a human being" especially considering her sense of social justice. Though I still consider the attitude callous and abhorrent.
Ryda, I apologize for calling you a poor excuse for a human being. It was out of line an uncalled for.
-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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TGWAH: Accepted. And thanks for allowing a distinction between me, as a whole, being bad, and my hang-ups being bad.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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Canuckistan
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What's with this outbreak of civility? That's just not right!
While we're at it, Ryda, thank you for clarifying your position. I may not agree with it, but I do thank you for clarifying. Your original position seemed quite alarming; your actual position, not nearly as much.
But you're not looking for children with which to make stew? Pity. I have a recipe you'd love.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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I would think Ryda would prefer man-parts stew.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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All the same, but if I had to trust a snopester to get my child out of burning plane, I think I'd feel better about it if she was sitting next to Canuckistan or TwoGuys. Which is kind of ironic, given the article that kicked off this thread.
Nick
-------------------- Don't forget to register for the New ULMB.
quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: While we're at it, Ryda, thank you for clarifying your position. I may not agree with it, but I do thank you for clarifying. Your original position seemed quite alarming; your actual position, not nearly as much.
Good. I'm not really all that evil. Some evil.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis: All the same, but if I had to trust a snopester to get my child out of burning plane, I think I'd feel better about it if she was sitting next to Canuckistan or TwoGuys. Which is kind of ironic, given the article that kicked off this thread.
Nick
I'd say that'd be wise, which just illustrates how the entire premise behind the airline policy is ludicrious.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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-------------------- "I wanna bite the hand that feeds me. I wanna bite that hand so badly. I wanna make them wish they'd never seen me." - Elvis Costello Posts: 2291 | From: The Banks of the Merrimack, MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by GenYus: I would think Ryda would prefer man-parts stew.
Why does everyone think I hate manparts! For the record, ladies and gents, I LUV Cock-n-balls......
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong: Good. I'm not really all that evil. Some evil.
We're all some evil. Think about how boring the world would be otherwise.
quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong: I'd say that'd be wise, which just illustrates how the entire premise behind the airline policy is ludicrious.
Agreed.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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I've always thought of Ryda as gendered female, mainly because she frequently posts about feminist issues from a feminist perspective.
For what it's worth, many people have called me a selfish, callous, poor excuse for a human being because of my similar views toward children. I was also raked across the coals and called a bigot years ago for admitting that I hate children. At times they evoke reactions of disgust and violence in me (such as the incessant shrieking of babies, or misbehaving toddlers that I want to grab by the hair and shake violently). I suspect that Ryda, like me, probably has some very extreme views that she actually tones down on the boards because it's not worth dealing with the horrified reactions of the general public.
I'll always put an animal's needs above my own, but you do not want me responsible for the welfare of another human being. I just can't - and won't - deal with that. Interestingly, I have had an equal number of people tell me that it's actually responsible of me to be honest about myself and to avoid situations in which I would not act in a socially (or legally) acceptable way. I don't know if I'd be considered a serious threat to children, since I'd rather avoid them entirely than cause them harm or help them. I would most assuredly be found guilty of negligence if someone were stupid enough to assume I would take care of a screaming kid they'd tried to pawn off on me.
More politely, I honestly don't know how to take care of a child. I don't really know how to talk to them or interact with them. I don't know what to do with a helpless child except turn it over to someone else as quickly as possible. The same goes for anyone who's sick or in need of extreme assistance. I'll call paramedics or police, but beyond that I don't know what I, as a human being in western society, am "supposed" to do or say. I have no nurturing instinct towards people. My instinct is usually to ignore a situation if someone else can take care of it. Or to laugh when someone gets hurt. The inappropriate laughter is something I've learned how to suppress, but I've never outgrown the urge to do it. I think it is mostly based in my inability to feel empathy, my self-centeredness, and my emotional detatchment from other people.
I consider myself biologically female, at least on the outside. I physically have ovaries and a uterus, but if it weren't for monthly cramps, I wouldn't believe I had them. I know that's hard to explain. I don't feel any attachment to a particular gender, or to my reproductive organs. I identify myself as gender-neutral. Usually, it's only in certain situations with other people that I consider myself as being female. When I'm home going about my daily business I never think about my sex or gender. I don't know why I'm supposed to identify as either male or female. I fluctuate between "both" and "neither", although I always check 'female' on documents and present myself using female pronouns. That's for society's benefit, not mine. I have female genitalia but as far as I'm concerned, it ends there. I have some traits that are culturally considered female, some male, and some neutral. I prefer the neutral state.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: What's with this outbreak of civility? That's just not right!
Okay, you leave me no choice.
Ryda, yes you are ebel. In fact, you are the EBfH. Oh, wait, that's Jenn. Okay, I dub ye the EBfCo. (This is dubbing, just this once.) Wear the title proudly, child.
-------------------- "This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman "Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam Posts: 4020 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Nov 2005
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Cervus, it's odd, because we often disagree, but I think you and I are alot alike. I see myself nodding along with pretty much everything you wrote
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Cervus: I suspect that Ryda, like me, probably has some very extreme views that she actually tones down on the boards because it's not worth dealing with the horrified reactions of the general public.
I'm sure it's safe to say that neither of you act maliciously on those views in public, either, which leaves me asking any of your mutual detractors: Where's the problem?
Posts: 472 | From: Brooklyn | Registered: Oct 2004
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My question for Ryda is this: if you think that the helpless should be helped, doesn't it bother you that you yourself do not have the will to do so? IMO, there's nothing wrong with hating the process of helping a helpless person, but there is something wrong with being unable to overcome that when necessary.
More generally, the way I see it each of us has a rational part that dictates what we should do and an irrational part that dictates what we want to do. There is no shame in merely possessing the latter part - it is our burden as animals. However, because we are more than animals, it is shameful to let this animal part control us. Ideally, we must always do our duty regardless of whether we like it or not. This is not to claim that I always do what I should do. Very often I do not, but I hate that about myself.
-------------------- Fools! You've over-estimated me! Posts: 3745 | From: New York City | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Troodon: My question for Ryda is this: if you think that the helpless should be helped, doesn't it bother you that you yourself do not have the will to do so? IMO, there's nothing wrong with hating the process of helping a helpless person, but there is something wrong with being unable to overcome that when necessary.
I'm not Ryda, nor do I play her on TV, and will not answer this question for her. But, why? Why should it bother her that she does not have the will to care for the helpless? Many people seem to not be able to care for their helpless family members and put them in places that will care for them so that they will not have to deal with it. Should they feel bothered by the fact that they are not caring for these people themselves when they know that they can not physically, mentally, financially, do so? If, in your opinion, they should feel guilty for not making the sacrifices required to do this, why? If the best solution for a family is to not care for their helpless personally, why should they be made to feel guilty about something that is not only for the good of themselves, but for the helpless member as they are getting the care and treatment that their family can not provide for them. How is not caring for a helpless stranger herself for long-term care make Ryda any worse than these people who can not do the same thing for their own family members?
Your example of rational part and irrational parts of the brain only work if you believe in a social contract that insists that the helpless can not be left to die. There are many instances of socities that did leave their helpless to die when they needed to or when their society decreed it.
-------------------- I swear, it was funnier in my head. Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink. Posts: 2493 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cervus: When I'm home going about my daily business I never think about my sex or gender.
Do you have any reason to believe this is unique? I don't believe that I do this either. You and I are fairly different people I think we can both agree yet we share this trait. Somehow, to me, that means it's likely pretty common.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote: Originally posted by troodon More generally, the way I see it each of us has a rational part that dictates what we should do and an irrational part that dictates what we want to do. There is no shame in merely possessing the latter part - it is our burden as animals. However, because we are more than animals, it is shameful to let this animal part control us. Ideally, we must always do our duty regardless of whether we like it or not. This is not to claim that I always do what I should do. Very often I do not, but I hate that about myself.
So what is our 'duty'? You seem to imply earlier that it would derive from our 'rational' thought processes as separate from our 'irrational' ones. How do we identify what is 'rational'?
I would suggest that someone identifying their own limits and personal boundaries and seeking to live within them is highly rational. It would be irrational, in fact, for someone to say: "I am not very good at X, I can locate no desire to be good at X, if I attempted X I believe that it could cause harm to myself or another and my not X will in no way harm anyone else. But I will nevertheless attempt X because someone else thinks I should."
The above statement is irrational whether you are substituting "staying in an abusive marriage" or "pretending that I do not feel sexually attracted to people of my gender" or "being a full-time carer for a disabled person" or "being a parent" for X.
Dropbear
-------------------- " The villagers had said justice had been done, and she'd lost patience and told them to go home, then, and pray to whatever gods they believed in that it was never done to them. -- (Terry Pratchett) Posts: 823 | From: Hobart, Tasmania | Registered: Jun 2005
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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:Originally posted by AdmiralDinty:
quote:Originally posted by Rhiandmoi: I am interested in what you think it is about yourself Ryda that is not gendered female. Because when ever I think of you I think of a highly gendered female person.
I am of the same mind, and have the same question (although I couldn't articulate as well as Rhi.)
Really? I have very little interest in marriage or family, little interest in discussing or addressing emotions (beyond what I have to), when I'm single sleep with whomever I want whenever I want without a backward glance, don't care enough about my appearence to spend time on it, I am insistant on honesty, don't dissemble, and appreciate a logical approach.
All of those are diametric opposites to the "feminine" as it is currently defined.
Why do y'all gender me as female?
I've thought about this and your earlier post for a few hours. My reaction is the same as when I first read it: You have perhaps the most narrowly drawn definition of "feminine" as I have every seen. It's sad that you think Barbie Dolls represent all femininity. The reality is that they represent only a part of it.
I suspect you may not be as different or unique as you think you are.
And, BTW, every mother I know has used that line about hair growing after someone has gotten a bad haircut...or feared they might.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Troodon: My question for Ryda is this: if you think that the helpless should be helped, doesn't it bother you that you yourself do not have the will to do so? IMO, there's nothing wrong with hating the process of helping a helpless person, but there is something wrong with being unable to overcome that when necessary.
I'm not Ryda, nor do I play her on TV, and will not answer this question for her. But, why? Why should it bother her that she does not have the will to care for the helpless? Many people seem to not be able to care for their helpless family members and put them in places that will care for them so that they will not have to deal with it. Should they feel bothered by the fact that they are not caring for these people themselves when they know that they can not physically, mentally, financially, do so? If, in your opinion, they should feel guilty for not making the sacrifices required to do this, why? If the best solution for a family is to not care for their helpless personally, why should they be made to feel guilty about something that is not only for the good of themselves, but for the helpless member as they are getting the care and treatment that their family can not provide for them. How is not caring for a helpless stranger herself for long-term care make Ryda any worse than these people who can not do the same thing for their own family members?
I'm sorry I was unclear. For the purpose of this discussion, I would consider putting someone into a facility where they are cared for as a form of providing care. Not providing care would be leaving them to die, as Ryda has said she would do if that was the only option besides caring for them herself.
quote:Your example of rational part and irrational parts of the brain only work if you believe in a social contract that insists that the helpless can not be left to die. There are many instances of socities that did leave their helpless to die when they needed to or when their society decreed it.
My reasoning for it is as follows: my own pain and pleasure are objectively real things, in the sense that they are biochemical processes in my brain. Furthermore, my pain and pleasure are subjectively realy to me, in the sense that I experience them as part of my stream of conciousness. I strive to avoid subjective pain and experience subjective pleasure.
Other people also experience the same biochemical processes that I do when I feel pain and pleasure. Thus, objectively their pain and pleasure is equally as real as mine and the fact that I cannot subjectively experience their pain and pleasure is due merely to the lack of an appropriate sense organ. Thus, because I am an intelligent, rational being, I should try to figure out what causes other people pain or pleasure and try to help them avoid pain and experience pleasure with the same fervor with which I would avoid my own pain and seek to experience my own pleasure.
-------------------- Fools! You've over-estimated me! Posts: 3745 | From: New York City | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Troodon: My question for Ryda is this: if you think that the helpless should be helped, doesn't it bother you that you yourself do not have the will to do so? IMO, there's nothing wrong with hating the process of helping a helpless person, but there is something wrong with being unable to overcome that when necessary.
I'm not Ryda, nor do I play her on TV, and will not answer this question for her. But, why? Why should it bother her that she does not have the will to care for the helpless? Many people seem to not be able to care for their helpless family members and put them in places that will care for them so that they will not have to deal with it. Should they feel bothered by the fact that they are not caring for these people themselves when they know that they can not physically, mentally, financially, do so? If, in your opinion, they should feel guilty for not making the sacrifices required to do this, why? If the best solution for a family is to not care for their helpless personally, why should they be made to feel guilty about something that is not only for the good of themselves, but for the helpless member as they are getting the care and treatment that their family can not provide for them. How is not caring for a helpless stranger herself for long-term care make Ryda any worse than these people who can not do the same thing for their own family members?
I'm sorry I was unclear. For the purpose of this discussion, I would consider putting someone into a facility where they are cared for as a form of providing care. Not providing care would be leaving them to die, as Ryda has said she would do if that was the only option besides caring for them herself.
She did not say she would not seek help for the helpless; she said she would rather not help something helpless in the long-term. I think there are several of you who have intuited that.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Troodon: I'm sorry I was unclear. For the purpose of this discussion, I would consider putting someone into a facility where they are cared for as a form of providing care. Not providing care would be leaving them to die, as Ryda has said she would do if that was the only option besides caring for them herself.
She did not say she would not seek help for the helpless; she said she would rather not help something helpless in the long-term. I think there are several of you who have intuited that.
One of her comments, made to clarify a position some saw as troubling was:
quote: However, the thought of having to care for something that can't walk or feed itself for more than a few weeks would lead to nasty, nasty things.
And if that's nasty, at least it's honest. It's what I am. I've come to terms with it. I live my life accordingly.
I think you are giving her credit for something she herself does not want credit for. She is being very clear on what she thinks would happen if she somehow *had* to care for someone who would be at her mercy.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Seeking care, however, does not equal caring for.
I understand she doesn't want to care for something in the long-term. During my father's last hospitalization, I came to terms with the fact that I did not want to care for him long-term, either.
In no way did that prevent me from seeking for him proper and appropriate care, however. It did mean that he was not going to come live with me at my house.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Cervus: When I'm home going about my daily business I never think about my sex or gender.
Do you have any reason to believe this is unique? I don't believe that I do this either. You and I are fairly different people I think we can both agree yet we share this trait. Somehow, to me, that means it's likely pretty common.
I discovered a long time ago that a lot of things that seem normal and common to me are, in fact, strange to other people. My default is to assume everything about myself deviates from the norm.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: We're all some evil. Think about how boring the world would be otherwise.
I prefer the term "Chaotic Neutral".
Now how many old people out there remember where this is from....
Hey...I'm not that old!
Unless you're referencing something that pre-dates D&D?
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: We're all some evil. Think about how boring the world would be otherwise.
I prefer the term "Chaotic Neutral".
Now how many old people out there remember where this is from....
Hey...I'm not that old!
Unless you're referencing something that pre-dates D&D?
Shows you what I know. I thought D&D fell out of favor not too long after I got out of college (almost 25 years ago).
My gaming buddies have officially declared me "Neutral Good"; I concur for the most part, but I do "lean" occaisionally. DogMonkey is Chaotic Neutral, mutual friend Z considers himself Neutral Evil.
And I know I'm not old...
-------------------- "My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich." "Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?" "Maybe." Posts: 496 | From: Whitby, ON, Canada | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by evilrabbit: My gaming buddies have officially declared me "Neutral Good"; I concur for the most part, but I do "lean" occaisionally. DogMonkey is Chaotic Neutral, mutual friend Z considers himself Neutral Evil.
And I know I'm not old...
I was always "Chaotic Good". It fit me.
-------------------- And now for something completely different... Posts: 4164 | From: Alabama | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Depends on the day. Today, I'm Lawful Neutral.
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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