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Author Topic: Student tapes teacher proselytizing in class
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
The point is under a certain context, the teacher expressing their personal opinions to me was not at all inappropriate. That is in my opinion fundamentally different than if these personal opinions are lectured to the class as part of the lesson plan.

Did you listen to the mp3 I linked earlier?
It isn't often that I agree with Steve E, but, in this case, this teacher was utterly in the wrong. I don't care what any public school teacher's view of religion is: I want my children to remain forever ignorant about it (unless we know said teacher in another setting outside the public school arena).

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Elwood
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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My high school biology teacher was a baptist pastor and young-earth creationist. This was before the South Baptists defrocked women pastors. I knew her position because I was involved in the school's Bible Club and she was the sponsor (all club's required a faculty sponsor.) Really, for the purposes of the material we covered, her position didn't matter a whole lot. We spent less than a week on evolution and beyond emphasizing that it was "only one theory" more than any science teacher should, her lessons stuck to the material and the tests reflected the text. Well, okay, she gave extra credit for papers on competing theories e.g. creationism, which should be a no-no, but she was careful not to state which competing theories she wanted to read about. I suppose one could have written that aliens were involved in evolution of life on earth, or that the universe was sneezed into existence by the great Arkalseizure (sp?) and still received the credit.

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"If I didn't see it and didn't know it was a real news report, I wouldn't believe it. I mean, how nutty can you get?"-Pat Robertson Oct 26, 2006.

Posts: 2936 | From: Mean Streets of West Virginia | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
geminilee
The First USA Noel


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Arkleseizure, if you please. The coming of the Great White Handkerchief is upon us! Repent! Repent!

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"Accompanied by the ghosts of dolphins, the ghost of a ship sailed on..." Terry Pratchett

Posts: 660 | From: Gainesville, FL | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
callee
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by I'mNotDedalus:
My poor library doesn't own the copy, so stomp twice if you want me to Interlibrary Loan the book so we can continue onóas Iím sure you donít get enough of a fix at your day-job.

tempting, but afraid it will have to wait till I get through the stack of campbell sitting on my shelf to read that I linned up after reading your posts last year!

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a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll

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I'mNotDedalus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by callee:
tempting, but afraid it will have to wait till I get through the stack of campbell sitting on my shelf to read that I linned up after reading your posts last year!

Nice! Care to share which titles you have waiting?

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The salty fragrance of LíEau IímNotDedalus - made entirely of and entirely for sea turtles.

Posts: 1983 | From: Chicagoland, IL | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
callee
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I thought the power of myth would be an easy entry point. I didn't see the tv thing. if I found that helpful, I thought I'd move on to something mroe substantive then. other people have said to start with thou art that. what do you think? I thought it would be last summer's reading. Hopfully next summer's then!

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a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll

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I'mNotDedalus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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The Power of Myth is good stuff if you can bare Bill Moyers for an extended period. The Mythos lectures are much more expansive.

As the books go, the two titles I expect you might appreciate are Thou Art That and Volume III of The Masks of God: Occidental Mythology.

Thou Art That is a very quick read, at a mere 114 pages of actual text (culled from unpublished lecture transcripts and manuscripts). The first few chapters present his authoritative definitions of Myth and the purposes they are supposed to serve. The meat of his Judeo-Christian symbol analysis doesn't occur until about the middle of the book, linking them to mythic symbols of world mythologies, pre and post Abraham/Jesus.

Occidental Mythology is a much larger academic work. A history of the Indo-European mythologies, where they seem to have come from and how they travel. He begins with the Goddess mythologies present in Europe, before the Greeks. Then, the Persians, Hellenism, Christianity, etc. I much prefer this work over Thou Art That, which is really just a quick synopsis of Volume III. Taken as a whole, the four volumes of The Masks of God are truly some of the most astonishing pieces of scholarship I've encountered.

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The salty fragrance of LíEau IímNotDedalus - made entirely of and entirely for sea turtles.

Posts: 1983 | From: Chicagoland, IL | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Michael Cole
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Elwood:
My high school biology teacher was a baptist pastor and young-earth creationist. This was before the South Baptists defrocked women pastors. I knew her position because I was involved in the school's Bible Club and she was the sponsor (all club's required a faculty sponsor.) Really, for the purposes of the material we covered, her position didn't matter a whole lot. We spent less than a week on evolution and beyond emphasizing that it was "only one theory" more than any science teacher should, her lessons stuck to the material and the tests reflected the text.

Well, firstly she was wrong with evolution being "only one theory". Evolution is an observation, Natural Selection is Darwin's theory. She looses points for that.

BTW, did anyone mention to her that Newton's theory of Gravity was "only one theory"?
quote:

Well, okay, she gave extra credit for papers on competing theories e.g. creationism, ...

Bzzzt. Creationsim is not, never has been, and never will be a theory. It is not based on observations, cannot be disproved, and makes no testable predictions.
quote:

... which should be a no-no, but she was careful not to state which competing theories she wanted to read about.

Can anyone name one? Note that Lamarkism has been disproven, and anything that I've heard of that is being discussed nowadays is for expansions or variants of Natural Selection. I cannot think of any current competing theories to Natural Selection.
quote:

I suppose one could have written that aliens were involved in evolution of life on earth, or that the universe was sneezed into existence by the great Arkalseizure (sp?) and still received the credit.

In which case, your teacher was not qualified or competent to teach biology.

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Q. What's the difference between a Computer saleman and a Used Car Salesman?
A. The Used Car Salesman knows when he is lying.

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moonfall86
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Except for those who are working in public, I can't think of a single public servant who is required to 1) open his work to daily public audit

A quick google search finds that the U. of Florida allows senior citizens (age 60+) to freely audit classes. I'm just saying that they should lower the age.
[/QB][/QUOTE]

I believe younger people are allowed to audit classes as well (UF student here). Someone wanted to audit my Japanese class but was told something like there wasn't room. The issue wasn't with his age.

I can totally believe a teacher doing this. Why? I had teachers(and a bus driver) who acted like this. My chemistry teacher junior year would sometimes spend whole class periods on a soapbox talking about religion and spreading his ultraconservative views. His lecture on why the husband should be head of the household made me very upset (he told me if I didn't like that, I shouldn't get married) He made one of my friends cry, too. He gave her a hard time about her punk clothes.

The next year, my English teacher was also the senior class sponsor. She gave us order forms for graduation Bibles. Nothing wrong with that; it's a typical part of graduation activities (they're presented in church, not at school), and you don't have to get one if you don't want one. My problem was with a comment she made. She referred to anyone who didn't get one as a "heathen". I can recall another time she got both religious and political. The Terri Schiavo case was going strong at the time, and she basically called Terri's husband a murderer.

Let's not even get into the bus driver. She told a bunch of young (under 10) kids that Santa wasn't real in an attempt to preserve the meaning of Christmas. She was also known to preach against Jehovah's Witnesses. I seem to remember crying (yeah, I'm prone to crying) because I had friends who were JWs.

So did I have a case/cases? Probably, but I didn't think it was worth it, especially not in a town where I'd get labeled "anti-religion" for complaining.

BTW, in middle school and for HS biology, I had good teachers who refused to exclude evolution just because some students had relgious objections. My middle school science teacher maintained that if you're going to argue against something, you should know what it is. I still have immense respect for her. (This is coming from someone who once believed Charles Darwin was evil and "out to get" religion. Is it excusable because I was only like 11 or 12 at the time?)

Posts: 885 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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