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Author Topic: Muslim Cabbies Refuse Bottle-Totting Passengers
Esprise Me
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
They won't carry alcohol, they won't carry a dog, and I thought I remembered at least one other "they will not carry" thread.

Now they're refusing to carry thread? But...how are their passengers going to properly shield themselves from the prying eyes of deviant members of the opposite sex?
Wait, I'll get it [fish]

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Mosherette
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Don't taxi drivers have the right to refuse to carry anyone they don't want to carry, for whatever reason? I got refused a cab the other night because the driver wanted to go to West Bridgford and I wanted to go to Beeston. *bah*

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Friends of Alfred
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quote:
A driver named Fuad Omar explained: "This is our religion. We could be punished in the afterlife if we agree to [transport alcohol]. This is a Koran issue. This came from heaven."
This is where I part company with organized religion. I find it very hard to believe that a Taxi driver will be punished in the afterlife because his fare has a 6 pack of Carling in the back seat.

Although still not quite as bad as the guy who would not allow a guide dog ion his cab.

As others have said, if you choose to be a taxi driver, then do your job. If you have these kinds of issues, then do something else, and if you willingly choose to do something with obvious conflicts, dont come running to me with the whole "God made me do it" argument.

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Zachary Fizz
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You didn't have a drunken guide dog with you, did you, Mosh?
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Mosherette
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Dammit. Rumbled.

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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black roses 19
Xboxing Day


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quote:
This isn't just a minor issue with a few cab drivers. Some absurd percentage like half of all cab drivers are muslim (varies by region), so the impact is immense. I don't understand why we're giving out so many work visas for that, since its clearly not a rare skill.
Arab or Muslim? If you're talking about Muslims - there's no need for a work visa as there are many Muslims who are not Arab. However, you DID mention a work visa so I would assume you are talking about Arabs. Muslim Arabs, even.

I realize you're going off of the article (which I assume actually is talking more about Arab Muslims rather than just Muslims). However, the two terms are not synonomous.

black "biggest. munchkin. EVER." roses

Edited so it makes sense. Or, at least more sense than before [Wink]

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Steve Eisenberg
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
Don't taxi drivers have the right to refuse to carry anyone they don't want to carry, for whatever reason?

Local rules vary, but when a US cabbie refuses a fare, he or she is often risking a fine. It's dangerous, low-paid, overregulated work. Fares are sometimes kept artificially high, leading to too many cabs -- thus the hours of wait at the airport to get a fare, described in the OP article.

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Steve Eisenberg
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quote:
Originally posted by Scari at haunted home:
And what happens when 80%, 90%, 100% of the cab drivers are Muslim? Or are only some Muslim's refusing to transport alcohol or people suspected of transporting alcohol? Just like the pharmacists who want to refuse to fill those prescriptions they have moral objections to, these guys should do their job or find one that doesn't offend their morality on a daily basis.

Only some Muslims are refusing.

Pharmacists have a choice of jobs. For example, they could become cabbies. Cabbies, though, are typically cabbies because they already don't have a lot of other choices.

As for "what happens when 80%, 90%, 100%," I'd accomodate now. We can change the rule if the anti-alcohol cabbies ever get to 80%, which I don't think they will, not in the US.

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"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
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Spamamander in a pear tree
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Maybe I'm just a cynical atheist, but I just can't help thinking...

If you take up cab driving because it is the only job opening available to you, to feed yourself and your family, which in and of itself is not an "immoral" job that would directly conflict with your belief sytems (like being a stripper or bartender might, for example), would DOYC -really- strike you down in the afterlife because somebody stowed a bottle of vodka in the back of your cab? I would hope that a DYOC would be compassionate enough to concern him/her/itself with the fact you are feeding your family instead of something that petty.

Faith needs to be reconciled with reason, or else why would said deity give free will?

-Rubs temples- I shouldn't be thinking like this on one cup of coffee. Honestly, though, this is a downright silly accomodation. You can't expect the morality of everyone around you to conform to your specific belief system if they remain within the law, nor can you shut yourself away from society at large. Accept or operate your own service with big letters on the side of your cab announcing what you won't carry, and see just how small your customer base would be.

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"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

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LeaflessMapleTree
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'Tis a valid point. And I have to echo the thought that I was under the impression that Muslims couldn't DRINK alcohol (maybe also buy it/own it) but now they can't drive someone else somewhere who has alcohol on their person?

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"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Errata
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quote:
Originally posted by black roses 19:
quote:
This isn't just a minor issue with a few cab drivers. Some absurd percentage like half of all cab drivers are muslim (varies by region), so the impact is immense. I don't understand why we're giving out so many work visas for that, since its clearly not a rare skill.
Arab or Muslim? If you're talking about Muslims - there's no need for a work visa as there are many Muslims who are not Arab. However, you DID mention a work visa so I would assume you are talking about Arabs. Muslim Arabs, even.

I realize you're going off of the article (which I assume actually is talking more about Arab Muslims rather than just Muslims). However, the two terms are not synonomous.

black "biggest. munchkin. EVER." roses

Edited so it makes sense. Or, at least more sense than before [Wink]

Arab Muslims, Pakistani Muslims, Persian Muslims. Doesn't really matter. Its not converts that are driving cabs. Its the religion that matters here, not the ethnicity. But the religion is overwhelmingly a first or second generation immigrant religion.
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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Errata:
Arab Muslims, Pakistani Muslims, Persian Muslims. Doesn't really matter. Its not converts that are driving cabs.

How do you know? Because they're not white?

quote:
Its the religion that matters here, not the ethnicity. But the religion is overwhelmingly a first or second generation immigrant religion.
Cite, please.

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Dog Friendly
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I'll go further than Spamamander on this one. I have a lot of contempt for the believer, of whatever faith, who places his or her loyalty in a narrow-minded, literalist Deity who'd send a soul to eternal torment for allowing a guide dog into a taxicab, letting someone carry their bottle of wine with them in the back seat, help a drunk person get home without driving, or whatever. I'm not just picking on Muslims either, does anybody remember the business with the Orthodox Jews and the auto-flushing urinals a few years back?

Why in this or any world would a rational human being offer loyalty to an all-powerful Being with no understanding? You're welcome to believe such a Deity exists, if you want to, but why pledge yourself to worship such a twit? For me, the only rational thing to do is to walk away with my head held high.

P'thoo. I've no interest in, or respect for, a Deity that demands blind, unthinking obedience to a bunch of arbitrary and archaic rules. Moreover, I shudder to think what an Eternal Realm must be like that's administered by such a narrow-minded ninny. I'll take the alternative, whatever it is.

Dog (needing a flame-proof suit for a couple of reasons...) Friendly

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Rhiandmoi
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I don't have any problem with the current setup. Don't want to carry alcohol, fine. Go to the back of the line. I am against forcing people to do what they don't want to do.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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LeaflessMapleTree
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Yes, but I do not want to have to wait while 17 cabs go to the back of the line to get into the 18th simply because I picked up a bottle at the duty free shop.

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"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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khadijah
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uggggh. How insane. I suppose they would be very upset if Miss Khadijah hailed a cab after 1 glass of wine.

"Its a Koran issue" I dont think so. I'd bet these geniuses have never read the book, but remember everything their mummies and daddies told them not to do. Pathetic.

I do wonder do loads and loads of people take cabs in minneapolis? There is a decent bus system that people could use until they get this sorted out.

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Rhiandmoi
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I don't care why they don't want to pick up the fare. It could be because the Spaghetti Monster or whatever it is told them not to. Whatever to the end of the line.

I guess I understand that they are working in a service industry, and if they don't really want to provide service they should get out but I tend to think that $$$ rules. And if they are missing a lot of fares because they keep going to the back of the line, they might reinterpret the rules on carrying alcohol or get out of the taxi business.

But on the passenger's side, from the article they are objecting to visible alcohol, they aren't searching bags. Just put it in your suitcase if you don't want to wait for 18 cabs.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Errata
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For goodness sake, Lainie. Take a cab sometime. The industry is disproportionately dominated by muslim immigrants from around the world. According to TFA its around 75% muslim cab drivers in the Minnesota airport area. In some regions its less than half, some regions much more. In New York, over 90% of cab drivers are immigrants (and over half are muslim). So yes, we are for some reason giving out work visas for cab drivers, a job that doesn't require any special skills that we need to import. And yes, for whatever reason its predominantly Muslim (South Asian, Arab, African), so any Muslim prohibitions are going to have a disproportionate impact.

cite cite cite

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black roses 19
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Here are some cites, by the way:

http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=2967

quote:
In reality, Arab-Americans are mostly Christian. The Census Bureau does not have solid data on the religious breakdown of the 3.5 million of them who live in the United States, but a 2002 survey by the polling firm Zogby International found that more than 60 percent identified themselves as Christians, while about a quarter said they practiceIslam. Of the estimated 4.7 million Muslims in the United States, more than 80 percent are not of Arab descent, mostly black Muslims or those from South Asia.
http://ailf.org/pubed/pe_articles_n091801a.htm

quote:
Of the roughly 3.5 million Arab Americans, 80 percent are Christian.
http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/terrorist_crisis/teachin.html

quote:
About one in five people in the world are Muslim, and 80 percent of Muslims are Asian, not Arab, noted Burke.
ETA:
quote:
Arab Muslims, Pakistani Muslims, Persian Muslims. Doesn't really matter. Its not converts that are driving cabs.
Those are all considered "Middle Eastern" though. To most people in the world, Middle Eastern = Arab, even though most aren't.

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"I find them to be in contradiction of the basic principles of YOUR MOM!!!" -We've Got Mail

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Rhiandmoi
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http://macdonald.hartsem.edu/smithart3.htm

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Jason Threadslayer
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From Q & A on Alcoholic Drinks from Ayatollah Sistani (Shi'ite):

quote:
Question : A Muslim enters a café and sits down at a table to drink tea, then a stranger comes at the same table to drink wine. Is it obligatory upon the Muslim to stop drinking tea and leave?

Answer : Yes, it is obligatory to move away from that table.

This website (also Shi'ite) states that in a Shi'a hadith, the Prophet curses those "who transport the wine" and that "when the curse descends it engulfs all the people in the company of the drunkards", so Muslims should remain aloof from drunks.

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Errata
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black roses, its true that not all Arab and South Asian immigrants are muslim. But its also true that very many cab drivers are specifically muslim immigrants. Its not about the ethnicity.
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Tarquin Farquart
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quote:
Originally posted by Errata:
black roses, its true that not all Arab and South Asian immigrants are muslim. But its also true that very many cab drivers are specifically muslim immigrants. Its not about the ethnicity.

Where in your cite does it provide a breakdown by religion?

quote:
Over 70% are from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
I would expect someone from Pakistan or Bangledesh to be Muslim (although they wouldn't have to be) but someone from India is more likely to be Hindu.

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Errata:
For goodness sake, Lainie. Take a cab sometime. The industry is disproportionately dominated by muslim immigrants from around the world. According to TFA its around 75% muslim cab drivers in the Minnesota airport area. In some regions its less than half, some regions much more. In New York, over 90% of cab drivers are immigrants (and over half are muslim). So yes, we are for some reason giving out work visas for cab drivers, a job that doesn't require any special skills that we need to import. And yes, for whatever reason its predominantly Muslim (South Asian, Arab, African), so any Muslim prohibitions are going to have a disproportionate impact.

cite cite cite

Actually, Errata, I asked for a cite for this statement:

quote:
But the religion is overwhelmingly a first or second generation immigrant religion.


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black roses 19
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quote:
I would expect someone from Pakistan or Bangledesh to be Muslim (although they wouldn't have to be) but someone from India is more likely to be Hindu.
Or Sikh, but so many people also confuse them with Muslims because of their Pugg (turban).

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by black roses 19:
quote:
I would expect someone from Pakistan or Bangledesh to be Muslim (although they wouldn't have to be) but someone from India is more likely to be Hindu.
Or Sikh, but so many people also confuse them with Muslims because of their Pugg (turban).
There were many Sikh taxi drivers in the Seattle metropolitan area when I lived there. There was a Sikh temple located a few miles from my house, and when they were having services, the parking lot was full of taxis.

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Errata
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Over 70% are from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
I would expect someone from Pakistan or Bangledesh to be Muslim (although they wouldn't have to be) but someone from India is more likely to be Hindu.
I gave three different cites. The one you're quoting was to establish the amount of immigrants rather than their religion. The other 2, as well as the article in the opening post, all discuss religion.
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Errata
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by Errata:
For goodness sake, Lainie. Take a cab sometime. The industry is disproportionately dominated by muslim immigrants from around the world. According to TFA its around 75% muslim cab drivers in the Minnesota airport area. In some regions its less than half, some regions much more. In New York, over 90% of cab drivers are immigrants (and over half are muslim). So yes, we are for some reason giving out work visas for cab drivers, a job that doesn't require any special skills that we need to import. And yes, for whatever reason its predominantly Muslim (South Asian, Arab, African), so any Muslim prohibitions are going to have a disproportionate impact.

cite cite cite

Actually, Errata, I asked for a cite for this statement:

quote:
But the religion is overwhelmingly a first or second generation immigrant religion.

Which Rhiandmoi gave, or you could easily look up yourself if you actually cared.
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Mistletoey Chloe
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Why are you taking such a snotty tone, Errata?

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Rhiandmoi
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That's not how it works, Errata, and you know it.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Lainie
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It's not my job, or Rhiandmoi's, to support your positions. And why are you taking such a snotty tone?

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Errata
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
when they were having services, the parking lot was full of taxis.

cite plz, thx
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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Errata:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
when they were having services, the parking lot was full of taxis.

cite plz, thx
My third grade teacher's name was Miss Scott. Would you like a cite for that, too?

If you had said "All the Muslims I know are first or second generation immigrants" I wouldn't have asked you for a cite (although I might have pointed out that "second generation immigrant" is an oxymoron).

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Spamamander in a pear tree
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Oh please. You don't need a cite to back up an actual observation (a parking lot full of taxis) as opposed to a generalized statement that cannot be "observed"- a person's religious belief is not immediately evident based on their ethnicity or attire, with a few exceptions, since many things like the wearing of a turban are cultural, not necessarily religious. Yes, it's pretty safe to assume a man in a yarmulke is Jewish, but simply because someone is of Middle Eastern decent does not mean they are Muslim, as the proffered cites clearly show.

I'm not getting the snark here, I really am not.

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"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Errata:
quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Over 70% are from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
I would expect someone from Pakistan or Bangledesh to be Muslim (although they wouldn't have to be) but someone from India is more likely to be Hindu.
I gave three different cites. The one you're quoting was to establish the amount of immigrants rather than their religion. The other 2, as well as the article in the opening post, all discuss religion.
The cite establishes that some cabbies are Muslim - it doesn't state that they are in the majority.

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

Posts: 802 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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