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Author Topic: Republican Foley resigns US House seat
Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I swear I didn't make this headline up:
Hastert says those who hid scandal must go

My mind may stop boggling in a few days.

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Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

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Brad from Georgia
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Well, since two or three people have said they personally alerted Hastert's office as long ago as 2003, it will be interesting to see if Hastert sticks to his word.

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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So far, he's said he won't resign because that would be giving the Democrats what they want. Because heaven knows, when it comes to coverup scandals involving statutory rape, we've really got to think about what the opposing political party thinks.

Not to mention that most Democrats would much prefer that he stay right where he is until the election.

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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keokuk
Deck the Malls


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The political calcuations in not having Hastert resign were probably based on an underestimation of media coverage. They probably figured, "Alright it'll all settle down in a few days and we can move on." Instead it lasted about 10 days, was extremely prolific and did a lot of harm. If Hastert had resigned early, a lot of the damange would have been avoided.

However, at this point, the coverage is starting to get downplayed since there's not as much new news coming out. If Hastert were to resign at this point, it would suddenly boost it back into multiple-article front-page material.

Also, it's a bit of a moot point as to whether he steps down as speaker or not. They're out of session until after elections and aren't expected to take anything relevant up after returning. Democrats are pretty likely to take the House either way, and it's been pretty well-speculated that if Republicans are forced into the minority, Hastert will leave leadership and let Boehner take over as Minority Leader.

Of course all this is predicated on ignoring the actual ethical issues of the matter and only looking at political and in-practice implications.

Although something interesting that I read yesterday (can't remember where) is that after 9/11, Congress changed some of the rules in terms of leadership succession. The assumption was that a Speaker would not resign out-of-session, and that the only way he or she would vacate that office is death or incapacitation. So there are actually rules in place so that the Speaker makes a list of successors in the event of an out-of-session vacancy that is stored under lock and key in the House Clerk's office. So if Hastert were to resign tomorrow, then the clerk would have to announce the secret successor as the House Speaker until the House could come back in session to vote on a new one.

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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I caught part of Bush's speech on this. First of all, after several years as president, the man still can't form a sentence. Even when the sentence has been written for him, he's rehearsed and been coached, and there haven't been any questions to derail him.

But he did manage to imply that the Democrats were behind this with this comment about how we have to find out what the Democrats knew.

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by keokuk:
...Democrats are pretty likely to take the House either way...

I would put real money on this NOT happening. The Republicans may lose a few seats in each house, but they will still have control. [Frown]

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And now for something completely different...

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Open Mike Night
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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In case you thought the "But Clinton" defense was kind of weak......

But Teddy......

quote:
Republican Rep. Christopher Shays defended the House speaker's handling of a congressional page scandal, saying no one died like at Chappaquiddick in 1969 when Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy was involved.

``I know the speaker didn't go over a bridge and leave a young person in the water, and then have a press conference the next day,'' the embattled Connecticut congressman told The Hartford Courant in remarks published Wednesday.

``Dennis Hastert didn't kill anybody,'' he added.



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On the crusade to eliminate Moral Asshattery wherever it exists
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evilbeard
We Three Blings


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Foley Cruising in His BMW; Another Dorm Visit in 2000
quote:
A staff supervisor at the dorm for congressional pages intervened when former Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL) tried to pay the teens a nighttime visit in the summer of 2000, ABC News has learned.

The pages were having an informal "mixer" party in their dorm at the Tip O'Neil building behind the Capitol, according to a former page who was 17 at the time.

"It was a beautiful summer evening, and I recall Mr. Foley arriving in his blue Series 3 BMW convertible about 9:30 at night," the former page said. "Several of us saw him and went outside to chat."



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rex linum occisor et erronis

But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey."

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Oh dear. They're really in trouble, aren't they? I noticed that yesterday Limbaugh declared that if the Democratic (sorry, "Democrat") Party *doesn't* win a majority in the House and Senate, it will be a devastating failure for them. Once the goalposts start moving, it's a sign that things are going to get interesting.

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WonkoTheSane
Happy Holly Days


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If the Republicans lose the majority, I can see plenty of media saying how it was a devasting loss for them. The goalposts are moving how...?

Wonko

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"It seemed to me that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilzation in which I could live and stay sane."

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keokuk
Deck the Malls


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If that's what Rush Limbaugh is saying, then it's artificially creating a high standard that won't be reached.

First, Republicans said they want to pick up seats in both Houses.

Then, hold the majority in both.

Now, apparently the Democrats have to win BOTH the House and Senate for it to be a victory? Umm, I don't think the White House will be holding parties to celebrate the House oversight hearings that would begin with a Democratic majority.

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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It was already increasingly likely that the Dems would take over the House before the Foley news hit. They had only an outside chance at winning the Senate, and I'd have to argue that hasn't quite changed. If they take the House (and especially if they take the Senate), you can bet the conventional wisdom will become "the Republicans would have held on if not for Foley." It's not true, but since when does that matter?

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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quote:

HARTFORD, Connecticut (AP) -- Republican Rep. Christopher Shays defended the House speaker's handling of a congressional page scandal, saying no one died like during the 1969 Chappaquiddick incident involving Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy.

"But Clinton Kennedy..."

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Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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So now we've gone from "Vote Republican because we're tough on terrorists" to "Vote Republican because we got you into this mess in Iraq and now we've got to finish the job" to "Vote Republican because a Democrat did something stupid 37 years ago and a Republican did something you could say was less stupid last year." I'm beginning to wish we could push the election back a few more weeks to see if they could get any worse...

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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"Vote Republican. At least we're not Republicans."

Mark my words, that'll be their (incredibly baffling) slogan in a couple of weeks.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Sara at home
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How ironic, Gerry Studds died last night.

Will we still hear the "But Studds....." defense or will that be considered tacky now?

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Nah, they did a wonderful job of exploiting Paul Wellstone's death for political gain and making the Democrats look like the villians in the whole thing. Why mess with the formula? Why let the fact that Studds' "victim" was of the age of consent stop them either?

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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WonkoTheSane
Happy Holly Days


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At risk of this whole thing blowing up again, do you think that the fact that Studds' page was over the age of consent makes what he did ok...? It still presents some pretty serious ethical violations, IMO, and I don't hear a lot of condemnation for that.

Wonko

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"It seemed to me that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilzation in which I could live and stay sane."

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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In terms of ethics, I don't think the fact that Studds' page was of consent matters. However, the age of consent is where the difference lays.

Where Mr. Studds maybe have been guilty of an ethical violation, Mr. Foley is in violation of the law. This legal violation was made even more agregious by the fact that Mr. Foley chaired the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children.

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
quote:
Originally posted by WonkoTheSane:
At risk of this whole thing blowing up again, do you think that the fact that Studds' page was over the age of consent makes what he did ok...? It still presents some pretty serious ethical violations, IMO, and I don't hear a lot of condemnation for that.

Wonko

In terms of ethics, I don't think the fact that Studds' page was of consent matters. However, the age of consent is where the difference lays.

Where Mr. Studds maybe have been guilty of an ethical violation, Mr. Foley is in violation of the law. This legal violation was made even more agregious by the fact that Mr. Foley chaired the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children.

And the Studds affair was over thirty years ago when there was much less concern about sexual harassment in the workplace. (For that matter there was much less concern about the sexual abuse of minors then, too.) Therefore there was less condemnation of those behaviors back then. Are you suggesting that there be condemnation of that now? Because he died? It's been brought up a lot recently, reported on. Do you want his obits to rail against him for it? Isn't mentioning it sufficient? Because of Foley? What Gerry Studds did 33 years ago really has nothing to do with what Mark Foley did now.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Scari at haunted home:
And the Studds affair was over thirty years ago when there was much less concern about sexual harassment in the workplace. (For that matter there was much less concern about the sexual abuse of minors then, too.) Therefore there was less condemnation of those behaviors back then. Are you suggesting that there be condemnation of that now? Because he died? It's been brought up a lot recently, reported on. Do you want his obits to rail against him for it? Isn't mentioning it sufficient? Because of Foley? What Gerry Studds did 33 years ago really has nothing to do with what Mark Foley did now.

Was that directed towards Wonko or myself?

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by WonkoTheSane:
At risk of this whole thing blowing up again, do you think that the fact that Studds' page was over the age of consent makes what he did ok...?

Not at all. But 1) no matter how unethical it was, it wasn't illegal; and 2) the Democratic leadership didn't cover for Studds the way the Republicans did for Foley. (In case anyone is wondering, the fact that Studds was from Massachusetts does not mean his seat was a safe Democratic one. He represented Cape Cod, which was politically marginal back then. Point being, if the Dems had wanted to be crass and put retaining his seat above all else, they had as much incentive to do so as the Republicans did this time.)

quote:
It still presents some pretty serious ethical violations, IMO, and I don't hear a lot of condemnation for that.
And 33 years from now, you probably won't be hearing much condemnation for what Mark Foley did. It will be old news. The same is now true of Studds.

Wonko [/QB][/QUOTE]

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat:
Was that directed towards Wonko or myself?

That didn't turn out the way I was thinking. [fish]

It started out adding to what you said but then I was replying to Wonko. Somehow I thought if I quoted you both it would make perfect sense. LOL It doesn't.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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TwoGuyswithaHat
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Scari at haunted home:That didn't turn out the way I was thinking. [fish]

It started out adding to what you said but then I was replying to Wonko. Somehow I thought if I quoted you both it would make perfect sense. LOL It doesn't.

Now that we're on the same page I see where you're coming from. [Big Grin]

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In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte

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WonkoTheSane
Happy Holly Days


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No, I guess I'm just trying to get straight in my head the delineation between wanting someone flayed for being a dirtball, wanting someone flayed because they broke the law, and wanting someone flayed because of their party affiliation. Clearly, Foley falls into the dirtball category, and I'm glad he's out. Studds was a dirtball, too, IMO, but the excuse for him seems to be that what he did was at least legal, whereas what Foley did was not. Unless I'm mistaken (and I could be), the jury is still out on whether or not what Foley did was actually illegal. So we're left with the immorality issue. Foley is out, so we can't bring non-judicial action against him in Congress. Then we have the suspicion that the GOP covered for him, and to what degree. As far as I've seen, the jury is still out on that one, too. Is there solid evidence that Hastert or anyone else willingly covered up illegal activity? Or did they merely not act strongly anough against the creepy Congressman when they found out about some of his escapades?

Wonko

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"It seemed to me that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilzation in which I could live and stay sane."

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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You're operating from a false premise. The excuse for Studds is that neither work place sexual harassment (nor sexual abuse of older but still underage teens, for that matter) wasn't deemed as serious an offense 30 years ago as it is now. Foley, on the other hand, knows full well that his behavior isn't acceptable in today's world because he chaired the House Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus.

Spin it so that the the Republican hierarchy only did wrong if they covered up illegal activity. Some will buy it.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by WonkoTheSane:
Then we have the suspicion that the GOP covered for him, and to what degree. As far as I've seen, the jury is still out on that one, too. Is there solid evidence that Hastert or anyone else willingly covered up illegal activity? Or did they merely not act strongly anough against the creepy Congressman when they found out about some of his escapades?

You could say they did not act strongly enough. But it would be closer to the truth to say they didn't act at all. And even if Foley did nothing illegal, what he is known to have done is disgusting enough that they should have put a stop to it the minute they knew about it. It is reasonably clear at this point that some or all of the Republican leadership knew about Foley's extracurricular activities as long as five years ago (and some people knew his secrets as early as 1995) and did nothing about it.

--------------------
Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Panel: GOP Negligent (but not really against the rules)
quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican lawmakers and aides failed for a decade to protect male pages from sexual come-ons by former Rep. Mark Foley -- once described as a ''ticking time bomb'' -- but they broke no rules and should not be punished, the House ethics committee concluded Friday.


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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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