quote:Dear Miss Manners: A woman I thought was my friend lost her husband about two months ago. They had tickets to an event I was dying to see, but we just didn't have the connections she did, I guess. Then after Tony died I figured she wouldn't be going. I called her and told her I knew it wouldn't be the same going by herself so, rather than waste the tickets, my George has a tuxedo. She seemed to appreciate my offer and said, "And you are volunteering George?" I went to a lot of trouble to get ready. I had my hair, nails and everything done. George rented a tux. When we went by her place to pick up the tickets, there she was in an evening dress. She thought I was going to let her date my husband! Instead of saying she was sorry for the mix-up, she said that since she was going to be putting the extra ticket at the box office in case somebody needed it, she'd better leave. Then she put us out the door. George says the polite thing would have been to let him just escort her. HA! I know how widows are. Inasmuch as she didn't have the good grace to let us use the tickets after we went to so much trouble, don't you think she owes us for all the preparations we made? I was so disappointed that I didn't get to attend this event.
Somebody here should be saying, "And I thought she was my friend!" Miss Manners is only surprised to hear that it is you. Ah, but you say that you know how widows are. They are reclusive, so that you can safely assume that they want to be left out of things, and so befuddled that it should be easy to pluck what you want from them. At the same time, they are so predatory that husbands cannot be trusted in their company. Even words do not deter you. Any sensible person would interpret what you said as a kind offer to have your husband escort your friend to the event and your answer to her question as a confirmation. But then you also stated that your husband owns evening clothes when he does not. Now your idea is to dun the lady for money to assuage your suffering. Miss Manners would not advise this. Not all widows are helpless.
posted
She sounds like a delightful woman. And Miss Manners is far more polite than I. My response would be more along the lines of "WTF? You're not serious, right?"
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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...Every one of them is just dying to jump my husband's bones a few months after the death of their own.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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I don't see how people can do that sort of thing to someone who is grieving. Grr it makes me so mad because it happened to my mom and it brings all the anger back even though she's been dead herself for four years now.
For my mom some shirt tail sort of relation pulled this crap. Dad hadn't been dead for a week when my uncle called her (he was also being manipulated, but it's complicated) and told her that his brother-in-law figured she wouldn't want that big clunky gas grill anymore (it was a year or two old) and he'd be glad to take it off her hands. Oh for like 50-100 bucks. Anyway, it worked on her. She was so distraught about my dad's death that she let the slime ball walk all over her. They rushed right over the same day before she could talk to either my brother, my sister, or me and threw it on the truck. She cried and cried when they drove away. I know this because I pulled into the driveway just as the vultures were "paying" her for it. Don't even get me started on some of the relatives' behavior in regards to flowers after the funeral.
I would have liked to have had my dad's grill if mom didn't want it, or I would have been glad to cook on it for her at family gatherings if that is what she'd wanted, but neither of my siblings nor I were rushing her into making any decisions. We wanted her to stay in the house and keep everything as it was at least for a couple of months until she knew for sure what she wanted to do. Preying on people in their most vulnerable time is just disgusting. I'm glad the woman in the OP was left with egg on her face. I wish I could have seen it. Kudos to the widow.
P&LL, Syl
-------------------- Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire Posts: 1944 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
The letter writer never made her intentions clear, apparently, to the "predatory widow" either. After reading it several times, I have come to the comclusion that the widow asked if George was offered via the phone. Would it have been so hard for the woman to have called and said, "Gee, if you aren't going, George and I would love to have the chance to go." Instead, the letter writer has herself primped and primed and heads to the widow's house with George and was appalled that her friend was going to the event. The widow never offered the tickets. The writer simply made dumb assumptions.
Sometimes I wish these idiots would write to someone other than Miss Manners. Miss Manners is too nice at times.
My SO recently had a couple of deaths in her close family (her dad and her maternal grandmother). Not so much with the father, as he had left everything to his wife but the grandmother, you wouldn't believe the vultures who came out of the woodwork. Yes, there was a will but there were also fights between about stupid things and things that were not specifically in the will, and even some that were. The only thing I had in my history to compare it to was when my grandmother passed and that same DAY my uncle came to claim her television.
The long and short of it is that there are plenty of NFBSKers in the world.
-------------------- "Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie." -Apu (The Simpsons) Posts: 2026 | From: 10 miles South of Boston | Registered: Oct 2002
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My sister has a MIL who has done something very wise, I think. She has assigned everyone in the family - extended as well - a coloured sticker. She has gone all around the house and placed the tiny little coloured dots on the bottom or back (i.e. out of sight) of every little item that wouldn't be in a will and that family would normally fight over. So, when she goes, there should be no fighting, no bickering, and no bitterness. Well, atleast towards eachother anyway. Some might be bitter against MIL for some of her decisions, and maybe there will be some trading going on, but bottom line there's a foundation there that I think will really help things along.
-------------------- a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll Posts: 3375 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Callee, my mother has done the same thing, with the colored stickers! Not only do I, my brother, and sister each have a color, but my brother's fiancee (they've been together for fifteen years) and my husband each have a color as well. My mother has already asked each of us how we feel about certain items in the house, and where there was a dispute (which is only maybe one or two items) she made the final decision.
-------------------- "Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!" -John Keating, "Dead Poets Society" Posts: 2861 | From: New Jersey | Registered: May 2004
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Sara at home
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posted
I always wonder if those little stickers ever fall off...accidently, of course.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
When my grandmother passed away, there was a great deal of bickering over who got what:
"No, you take it." "She would have wanted you to have it." "But it would look nice in your living room." "Oh, are you sure?" "Yes, of course, you take it." "Thank you!"
But my family is weird like that.
-------------------- Come on, come on - spin a little tighter Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002
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Richard W
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I'm sure that letter must be made up... surely nobody would be that lacking in self-awareness?
There used to be a Modern Manners column in The Times a few years ago (actually, I think there still is), and it was quite obvious that half the people who wrote in were taking the piss, and trying to come up with the most convoluted or obnoxious points of etiquette to ask about that they could. One that I remember was a guy who wrote in claiming that he was being followed by agents from a foreign secret service (he had some semi-plausible reason why), and wanted to know whether it was good manners to say "hello" or wave to them when he spotted them.
The trouble was that the guy answering them seemed to take them all seriously and it wasn't at all clear whether he realised people were making fun of him. The columns were often hilarious and much funnier because of his earnest replies.
Then one day the columnist was found dead in his underpants after suspiciously "accidentally falling" out of his small fourth-floor bathroom window, and it was reported that he'd been agonising over his sexuality (even though I would have guessed he was openly gay anyway - apparently not) and I felt a bit sorry for the guy, who must have known that half his audience were laughing at him. Oh well.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by chillas: When my grandmother passed away, there was a great deal of bickering over who got what:
"No, you take it." "She would have wanted you to have it." "But it would look nice in your living room." "Oh, are you sure?" "Yes, of course, you take it." "Thank you!"
But my family is weird like that.
Mine, too. When I arrived to help Nana and Grampa move, I found that my cousins had already decided that Nana's wedding china was not on the "pick list" -- it was to be mine, so they had already boxed it up and written my name on the box. The aunts ganged up on me and said I had to take it, now shut up and do you want your name in the hat for the wing chairs?
I understand that greedy families exist (my first set of in-laws were a prime example), but I just don't understand them.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sara at home
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I tried to give my sister-in-law the mounted fish head that had been my uncle's. She insisted that I should keep it.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
You know, I love my mom, but she pulls sh*t like this. When my grandmother was dying, she went to my eldest uncle and aunt's house(they were taking care of her), and asked them if she could have my grandmother's diamond ring. And the excuse she gave them was "She wants it for for her eldest son's wedding (that would be me), and since I am the eldest grandson, the ring should go to me". She didn't get the ring and she isn't welcome in that house anymore. It's bad enough that she does stuff like this, but she keeps dragging me into her schemes.
-------------------- Nico Sasha In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel. Posts: 4912 | From: VA | Registered: Jul 2003
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Canuckistan
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quote:Originally posted by AnglRdr: She sounds like a delightful woman. And Miss Manners is far more polite than I. My response would be more along the lines of "WTF? You're not serious, right?"
My response would have contained the words vulture, ghoul, leech and several unprintable four-letter words.
Un-freaking-believable.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Richard W: There used to be a Modern Manners column in The Times a few years ago (actually, I think there still is), and it was quite obvious that half the people who wrote in were taking the piss, and trying to come up with the most convoluted or obnoxious points of etiquette to ask about that they could.
Oh, it's still going all right - here's a recent edition with advice on revolving doors, tucking ties into trousers, and how to deal with unsolicited phone calls as well as other dilemmas. Whilst they are indeed very funny, I think most of the people writing in are deadly serious (they are readers of The Times, remember).
-------------------- "You learn something new every day if you're not careful" - Wilf Lunn Posts: 893 | From: Durham City, England | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Miss Manners says that the other person being rude is no excuse for g-you to be rude. I'm guessing that's why her reply was the way it was.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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After my grandfather died, and my parents moved in to take care of my Alzheimer's-stricken grandmother, my aunts and uncles got together with the lawyer to find a way around the stipulation in Papa's will that the house be sold and the money divvied up after Nana's death. Dad's sibs had unanimously agreed that my parents deserved the house.
Mind you, the china tea set that according to the terms of Nana's will should have been mine as oldest Granddaughter (the contents of the china cabinet were specifically earmarked to be divvied up among the granddaughters, and that was the only thing I wanted) ended up going to my aunt because "Mom told me I was getting it!" and my mom (who was acting as my proxy) just got sick of trying to fight her on it.
I'm sorta glad now because my current lifestyle really isn't china-tea-set-compatible.
Nonny
-------------------- When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote:Originally posted by chillas: When my grandmother passed away, there was a great deal of bickering over who got what:
"No, you take it." "She would have wanted you to have it." "But it would look nice in your living room." "Oh, are you sure?" "Yes, of course, you take it." "Thank you!"
But my family is weird like that.
Mine, too. When I arrived to help Nana and Grampa move, I found that my cousins had already decided that Nana's wedding china was not on the "pick list" -- it was to be mine, so they had already boxed it up and written my name on the box. The aunts ganged up on me and said I had to take it, now shut up and do you want your name in the hat for the wing chairs?
I already told Mom that sister and future SIL can have most of the jewelry. I only want I think it's two specific pieces, and they can have the rest. I don't generally wear jewelry, and what's the point of having it if it's just going to sit in a box? Sister and SIL do wear jewelry, though, so it's better off with them.
All of the framed antique photos, though...well, as the family genealogist, I've already staked my claim on them. And my sticker is on the back of all of them, so I'm good.
-------------------- "Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!" -John Keating, "Dead Poets Society" Posts: 2861 | From: New Jersey | Registered: May 2004
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Canuckistan
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posted
When my brother died, he left no will. It fell to us to clear out his stuff.
My mom and sisters kept insisting that I should use things such as his jacket and guitar. I felt like such a vulture, I simply couldn't do it at the time.
Seven-plus years later, I may finally be comfortable enough to start using his guitar. (Eh, I probably should learn how to play the thing eventually, no?) But at the time, the last thing I was thinking of was what stuff of his I could keep. I didn't want it. I wanted him back.
That's why the OP has my blood boiling. And although I can understand why Miss Manners would say don't be rude to someone who is rude, my boiling blood is overriding that in this case.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Richard W: I'm sure that letter must be made up... surely nobody would be that lacking in self-awareness?
I hope that letter is made up, but sadly many people are not only that rude but also that capable of justifying their actions to themselves no matter how vulgarly they have acted. She probably knows in her heart of hearts that she did something wrong but rather than correct her behavior she comes up with stupid justifications.
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by chillas: When my grandmother passed away, there was a great deal of bickering over who got what:
"No, you take it." "She would have wanted you to have it." "But it would look nice in your living room." "Oh, are you sure?" "Yes, of course, you take it." "Thank you!"
But my family is weird like that.
Chillas, I like your family.
-------------------- We are all equal, be it before the eyes of God, or for our own sake. We are all worthy of the same fundamental rights, freedoms, and, protections. Mindless hatred is unjustifiable. -Squoval Posts: 320 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
When my grandma was dying in the hospice, a friend of hers asked my mom for something that belonged to my grandma, saying that my grandma wanted her to have it. I don't know if she ever got it, but I hope not.
When my aunt was dying in the hospice, she was supposed to sign a document listing my mom (her sister) as executor of her estate. The document was in the room when my mom left to allow my cousin and her father (aunt's daughter and ex-husband) to enter. They closed the door.
When they left, the document was gone.
I'll never understand why money and things are more important than loved ones to some people.
-------------------- If you say you love ice cream, you better be dreaming of an orgy with Ben, Jerry, and one fine-ass chunky monkey.
-- My sister and poet extraordinaire, Joanna Hoffman Posts: 1475 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
My father's great-aunt Edith helped raise him and, unlike some of my father's family, was quite fond of my mother. By the time my mom and dad went down to Kentucky after her death, a number of items Edith had earmarked for my mother were missing -- taken, the other relatives said, by a burglar, who had broken a window to get in.
The broken glass was on the outside of the house.
Years later some of objects slowly started showing up in the other relatives' house. My mom or dad would say, "Didn't Aunt Edith have a whatsit just like that?" and the relatives, all wide-eyed, would say, "Did she? I don't remember that."
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: When my brother died, he left no will. It fell to us to clear out his stuff.
My mom and sisters kept insisting that I should use things such as his jacket and guitar. I felt like such a vulture, I simply couldn't do it at the time.
Seven-plus years later, I may finally be comfortable enough to start using his guitar. (Eh, I probably should learn how to play the thing eventually, no?) But at the time, the last thing I was thinking of was what stuff of his I could keep. I didn't want it. I wanted him back.
That's why the OP has my blood boiling. And although I can understand why Miss Manners would say don't be rude to someone who is rude, my boiling blood is overriding that in this case.
If you're ever in the market for a practice buddy let me know.
Nonny
-------------------- When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
on the flip side, I in fact have active plans to partake in what might be called just this kind of greedy Conniving.
my grandmother has a trivit that always fascinated me as a boy. it has an irish saying about drinking on it, and I guess this appealed to me as cool because grandma was otherwise a very strict teetotaler! The trivit lived at their summer cottage, and so some of my fondest memories of grandma is of sitting during the summer at her breakfast table with a pot of tea on that trivit, talking and chewing the fat. In anycase, I've always liked that trivit, and since we are in the habit of talking about such things openly in my family, one day many years ago, when I was just a teenager, I asked grandma if I could be in the will for the trivit. She said sure.
Every couple of years after that I would confirm this, "hey, I'm still in the will for that trivit, right?" and she would say "yes, yes."
Then, about 5 years ago, something changed. I made a regular confirmation, and instead of saying "yes, yes" grandma all of a sudden got sheepish, and started evading the question.
Long story short, I found out from my aunt that my uncle her brother had heard that I was in line for the trivit, and he had thrown a temper tantrum! Apparently, he claimed, he had always wanted the trivit, and why should I get it, since I was just one of many grandsons, while he was the first born son! What a nfbsk-head. I mean, he's already in line to get all of my grandfather's tools, and has sweet-talked his way into most of the other choice items pulling the same "I'm the first born son!" routine; He's already getting the choicest parts of the loot, and yet he would take from me the one little thing I wanted, which I had asked for long before him? What a nfbsk head.
So my mom and I have agreed that under no circumstances will he get that trivit. When that sad day comes, whichever one of us is closer will go right to grandma's house and grab the trivit. Then I'll put that sucker in my safe, and when uncle asks me about it I intend to tell him "tough luck - sue me."
-------------------- a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll Posts: 3375 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by chillas: When my grandmother passed away, there was a great deal of bickering over who got what:
"No, you take it." "She would have wanted you to have it." "But it would look nice in your living room." "Oh, are you sure?" "Yes, of course, you take it." "Thank you!"
But my family is weird like that.
As opposed to my family: when my grandfather passed away, my grandmother sold the house and moved all the posessions into my mom's condo. Included was a pair of "antique" (probably not, but that's another long story) end tables. My aunt came over to my mom's condo to pick up her daughter (visitng for the weekend) and declared that one end table belongs to her, one to my mom, and began to carry one table back to her car.
My mom declared that the two are a set, and that as a set, she was entitled to keep them both (and posession is 9/10ths of the law, etc.) So with my aunt holding two legs, my mom grabbed the other two legs, and they began a tug of war.
It didn't last long: their collective desire to gain control of the table overwhelmed the table's lightweight construction, and my aunt ended up tumbling through the front door with her two legs, while my mom fell on her butt with the other piece.
Just then, my grandmother called, and when I told her what had just happened, she chided me for not stepping in and grabbing the table from them (as if a 3-way tug of war would have produced a more equitable result )
I am the executor of my grandmother's will (she doesn't trust either daughter to fairly distribute her property) and I am not looking forward to that task.
-------------------- Is here no telephone? Posts: 323 | From: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Jul 2005
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Anyway, it worked on her. She was so distraught about my dad's death that she let the slime ball walk all over her. They rushed right over the same day before she could talk to either my brother, my sister, or me and threw it on the truck. She cried and cried when they drove away. I know this because I pulled into the driveway just as the vultures were "paying" her for it. ![[flame]](graemlins/flame.gif)
Don't even get me started on some of the relatives' behavior in regards to flowers after the funeral. 
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
And my sticker is on the back of all of them, so I'm good.
