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Author Topic: Catholic Church supports "gay-snub" firemen
pinqy
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quote:
The cause the firemen were being asked to support by distributing leaflets was 'don't set your house on fire. Don't leave the chip pan unattended, don't smoke in bed etc.'
The purpose of the parade was to promote fire safety? Then why the gay theme?

quote:
The analogy of Jewish firefighters at a neo-nazi rally or gay firefighters at a Westboro rally doesn't hold, as the gay rights movement is not anti-firefighter. Perhaps more accurate would be atheist firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a church, or Christian firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a synagogue.
Ok, a Christian firefighter refusing to go to a neo Nazi rally or a White firefighter not wanting to go to a KKK rally. The point is simply not wanting to be officially associated with a cause they are strongly against. I'm still not even sure why leaflets were distributed at all...I've never run into such a thing.

pinqy

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
The cause the firemen were being asked to support by distributing leaflets was 'don't set your house on fire. Don't leave the chip pan unattended, don't smoke in bed etc.'

I don't think there's a difference between a gay or a straight fire, or between a nazi, liberal or communist fire. They pretty much all are the same - flames smoke heat.

Exactly.

Preventing fires saves lives (of firefighters and citizens) and resources. The goal of distributing the leaflets at group events is to reach the large numbers of people those events draw. The purpose of the group event itself, and the sexual orientation (or political or religious beliefs) of the persons gathered there is irrelevant.

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
The cause the firemen were being asked to support by distributing leaflets was 'don't set your house on fire. Don't leave the chip pan unattended, don't smoke in bed etc.'
The purpose of the parade was to promote fire safety? Then why the gay theme?
The purpose of the parade is irrelvant. The purpose of distributing the leaflets was to promote fire safety.

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SkyeTisTheSeasonWynters
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
The cause the firemen were being asked to support by distributing leaflets was 'don't set your house on fire. Don't leave the chip pan unattended, don't smoke in bed etc.'
The purpose of the parade was to promote fire safety? Then why the gay theme?

quote:
The analogy of Jewish firefighters at a neo-nazi rally or gay firefighters at a Westboro rally doesn't hold, as the gay rights movement is not anti-firefighter. Perhaps more accurate would be atheist firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a church, or Christian firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a synagogue.
Ok, a Christian firefighter refusing to go to a neo Nazi rally or a White firefighter not wanting to go to a KKK rally. The point is simply not wanting to be officially associated with a cause they are strongly against. I'm still not even sure why leaflets were distributed at all...I've never run into such a thing.

pinqy

The "gay theme" as stated before is because there is going to be a lot of people in attendence.

It is also folly to assume that every single person at a gay parade is gay; many are gay supporters. Thus, you have not only "snubbing" gay people, but anyone who supports gay people (in attendence).

Also, handing out leaflets does not automatically cause a person
quote:
to be officially associated with a cause they are strongly against
. You're doing your job.

I certainly wouldn't want to meet up with a Scientologist doctor who refused to prescribe medications on the basis of their "core beliefs"

quote:
"Firefighters cannot, and will not, pick and choose to whom they offer fire safety advice.

"Strathclyde Fire and Rescue has a responsibility to protect every one of the 2.3m people it serves, irrespective of race, religion or sexuality," they said.


They have a job to do. You do not question your boss - and if you do, and you are found to be in the wrong, then you suffer the consequences.

If a house with a rainbow flag was burning to the ground, I certainly hope they would have tried to put it out instead of twiddling their thumbs saying: "Sorry, can't do it; it's against my morals"

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
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quote:
Originally posted by SkyeWynters:

It is also folly to assume that every single person at a gay parade is gay; many are gay supporters.

True. SO and I marched in pride this year. Neither of us are gay. Actually, I'd say only about half of the marchers were gay. Lots of supportive parents, other queer lifestyles, etc.

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:

I was under the impression that they were supposed to hand out gay rights leaflets,

I originally thought that too. My position was that tyhey should not be forced to promote and activity that is against their religion.

Then I realized that it was about fire safety and my response changed to, "do your job, Assholes!"

quote:

which, while being a noble thing to do, hardly prevents any fires.

Friction, man. Friction.


quote:

If they didn't hand out fire prevention leaflets because there were gays present, then they made a mistake.

I agree. One who protects the public must do their job and put everything else aside. At times, even their lives. [Frown]

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Little Pink Pill
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quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
The analogy of Jewish firefighters at a neo-nazi rally or gay firefighters at a Westboro rally doesn't hold, as the gay rights movement is not anti-firefighter. Perhaps more accurate would be atheist firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a church, or Christian firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a synagogue.

The analogy holds if this part is true:
quote:
"...their religious sensibilities would have been grossly offended by people dressed as priests and nuns lampooning the Church."
I don't think the men should have refused to go to the parade, but OTOH, if they are going to attend events that are politically charged, I think the department should give firefighters a right to pick which ones they want to sign up for.

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Eddylizard
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I was going to respond to pinqy, but Lainie, SkyeWinters and RydaWong have already expressed what I was going to say, and probably more eloquently.

The local volunteer fire brigade turn up every year at our village fete. It's a bit of fun, and they let the kids sit in the fire engine etc. But they also put on some displays to alert people to fire prevention.

It doesn't mean they want to take part in the vicar's slow bicycle race, or endorse dog shows.

Supposing I was trying to advertise my pizza business by distributing leaflets. Then I found out some event was coming to town, and thousands were expected to attend. I'd be on the street corner handing out leaflets. Half the people would refuse them. Half of those who take them will probably toss them. Some might actually read them.

Sorry a bit trite.

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
But that lets people off the hook. Affairs are not mistakes. Doing something bigoted is not a mistake. They may be things you regret, but that is not the same thing. Even if that's the dictionary definition, it's too easy a defense. "Gee, I'm sorry I killed those kids driving drunk. I made a horrible mistake." No.

So, an affair or drunk driving is not an error in judgement caused by poor reasoning?

I would say that the Drunk driver did make a horrible mistake. just because an action is a mistake does not mean that it is forgivable or without blame. A mistake is not an accident.

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Little Pink Pill:
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
The analogy of Jewish firefighters at a neo-nazi rally or gay firefighters at a Westboro rally doesn't hold, as the gay rights movement is not anti-firefighter. Perhaps more accurate would be atheist firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a church, or Christian firefighters refusing to hand out leaflets at a synagogue.

The analogy holds if this part is true:
quote:
"...their religious sensibilities would have been grossly offended by people dressed as priests and nuns lampooning the Church."
I don't think the men should have refused to go to the parade, but OTOH, if they are going to attend events that are politically charged, I think the department should give firefighters a right to pick which ones they want to sign up for.

Firefighters work shifts, at least in the US. What if nobody who wants to go to a particular event is working during the shift that event occurs?

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Little Pink Pill
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Firefighters work shifts, at least in the US. What if nobody who wants to go to a particular event is working during the shift that event occurs?

Wouldn't some people have to stay back at the station in case of an emergency on the same shift, though? And wouldn't an event like that be planned for ahead of time?

I confess I don't really know how they plan these things, but it just seems like there must be a way to create a division of labor that doesn't force anyone into duties they are offended by (justifiably or not). For example, firefighters visit schools for safety lectures, but if some guy really hated noisy kids, as an employer I would leave him back at the station and let the guy who actually likes them go to the school. I don't think that means the one who isn't that kid friendly wouldn't help a child in a fire.

I guess what I'm saying is that if someone expressed concern over something, even if I disagreed with them I wouldn't force their hand unless absolutely necessary.

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Eddylizard
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Okay I have a plan.

Every householder fills out a form, stating their sexual and religious orientation, race and gender and other details which may be relevant. Which can then be placed on a fire service database.

If an alarm is received the firefighters examine the details. Those who do not want to respond can stay back at the station.

Of course, no-one may respond. If your house burns down then it is your fault for not being acceptable.

Excuse my while I remove my tongue from my cheek. It's quite firmly embedded and is starting to hurt.

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Little Pink Pill:
I guess what I'm saying is that if someone expressed concern over something, even if I disagreed with them I wouldn't force their hand unless absolutely necessary.

How would this scheme work in practice? Would firefighters be required to fill out detailed information about what causes they do and don't support? Who would maintain the privacy of such information, and make sure it wasn't used inappropriately? What if a firefighter refuses to provide the information in advance -- can he still object to an assignment at the last minute?

Even if those issues are resolved, it seems to me that the front-line management of the fire department has better things to do than schedule firefighters' assignments to accomodate their individual political/social/religious beliefs. Nobody likes every aspect of their job.

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Lainie
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pinqy
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
The purpose of the parade is irrelvant. The purpose of distributing the leaflets was to promote fire safety.

The purpose of the parade is very relevant if people are refusing to go because of it. And since the purpose of the parade had nothing to do with fire safety, then the fire safety leaflets are an irrlevant part of the parade and not necessary at all.
quote:
Originally posted by SkyeWynters:
Also, handing out leaflets does not automatically cause a person
quote:
to be officially associated with a cause they are strongly against.
You're doing your job.
You don't consider attending and participating in an event to associate a person with that cause?
quote:
If a house with a rainbow flag was burning to the ground, I certainly hope they would have tried to put it out instead of twiddling their thumbs saying: "Sorry, can't do it; it's against my morals"
The two are not in the least equivalent. Saving a person whose house is on fire would not make anyone think you supported any of that person's personal beliefs. Attending a prominent parade that supports a particular viewpoint does. Honestly, if this were a KKK rally would you be against firefighters who didn't want to attend to hand out fire safety leaflets?
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
Then I realized that it was about fire safety and my response changed to, "do your job, Assholes!"

One more time...the parade had nothing to do with fire safety. There was no real reason for firefighters to be there handing out leaflets at all because they had nothing to do with the purpose of the parade. Why were they handing out leaflets anyway? Is the idea to pick a random event that has nothing to do with your duties and just hand out leaflets? That's just weird to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
The local volunteer fire brigade turn up every year at our village fete. It's a bit of fun, and they let the kids sit in the fire engine etc. But they also put on some displays to alert people to fire prevention.

A Village Fete is a generally activity with many many different events and no central political/social theme. This parade was of completely different character with one overriding theme and purpose.

How often does the fire department go to church services to distribute flyers? Do they go KKK meetings too? Conventions?

pinqy

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Little Pink Pill
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
How would this scheme work in practice? Would firefighters be required to fill out detailed information about what causes they do and don't support? Who would maintain the privacy of such information, and make sure it wasn't used inappropriately? What if a firefighter refuses to provide the information in advance -- can he still object to an assignment at the last minute?

Maybe a sign up sheet for this month's events? Everyone is required to do so many per month or year?

I don't know, it just seems like it didn't need to turn into a showdown in the first place. But I also agree with you that everyone has to do things in their job they don't like, and, again, I don't think these guys should have refused point blank. I would really, really hope their feelings about a parade would not effect what they would do in an actual emergency situation. If there is any possibility of that, then demotion isn't the appropriate action, firing is.

The whole thing is a tad absurd to me, anyway. "I said get out there and pass out those leaflets, boy, or I'll have your badge!" "But sir! There'll be gay nuns!"

ETA-quote

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SkyeTisTheSeasonWynters
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
The purpose of the parade is irrelvant. The purpose of distributing the leaflets was to promote fire safety.

The purpose of the parade is very relevant if people are refusing to go because of it. And since the purpose of the parade had nothing to do with fire safety, then the fire safety leaflets are an irrlevant part of the parade and not necessary at all.
quote:
Originally posted by SkyeWynters:
Also, handing out leaflets does not automatically cause a person
quote:
to be officially associated with a cause they are strongly against.
You're doing your job.
You don't consider attending and participating in an event to associate a person with that cause?
quote:
If a house with a rainbow flag was burning to the ground, I certainly hope they would have tried to put it out instead of twiddling their thumbs saying: "Sorry, can't do it; it's against my morals"
The two are not in the least equivalent. Saving a person whose house is on fire would not make anyone think you supported any of that person's personal beliefs. Attending a prominent parade that supports a particular viewpoint does. Honestly, if this were a KKK rally would you be against firefighters who didn't want to attend to hand out fire safety leaflets?
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
Then I realized that it was about fire safety and my response changed to, "do your job, Assholes!"

One more time...the parade had nothing to do with fire safety. There was no real reason for firefighters to be there handing out leaflets at all because they had nothing to do with the purpose of the parade. Why were they handing out leaflets anyway? Is the idea to pick a random event that has nothing to do with your duties and just hand out leaflets? That's just weird to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
The local volunteer fire brigade turn up every year at our village fete. It's a bit of fun, and they let the kids sit in the fire engine etc. But they also put on some displays to alert people to fire prevention.

A Village Fete is a generally activity with many many different events and no central political/social theme. This parade was of completely different character with one overriding theme and purpose.

How often does the fire department go to church services to distribute flyers? Do they go KKK meetings too? Conventions?

pinqy

quote:
You don't consider attending and participating in an event to associate a person with that cause?
No, of course not. There is no logical standing between doing one's job (i.e. handing out leaflets) and being associated with whatever is happening around you. If I were at this particular parade and I saw these firefighters, my first thought would NOT be: "Gee, they're gay friendly!" I would think: "They're handing out pamplets on fire saftey - I should grab one"

quote:
Saving a person whose house is on fire would not make anyone think you supported any of that person's personal beliefs.
And handing out pamphlets on FIRE SAFETY does? I'm just using your reasoning.

quote:
There was no real reason for firefighters to be there handing out leaflets at all because they had nothing to do with the purpose of the parade. Why were they handing out leaflets anyway? Is the idea to pick a random event that has nothing to do with your duties and just hand out leaflets? That's just weird to me.

Wanting to protect a group of your city is "weird"? And handing out leaflets on fire prevention IS part of their duties.

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Mistletoey Chloe
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pinqy, you seem to be assuming that this is the *only* independent event at which firefighters hand out safety leaflets. I see no indication that this is the case.

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SkyeTisTheSeasonWynters
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Spanked by Chloe [Embarrassed]

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Eddylizard
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy
How often does the fire department go to church services to distribute flyers? Do they go KKK meetings too? Conventions?

Now I've got this sick image of the KKK with a flaming cross, and the fire brigade in attendance. [Smile]

In this day and age, how offended could anyone become by the sight of a few men dressed up as nuns chanting anti-christian sentiments? If you were a devout christian, you would just laugh it off, otherwise you would just laugh.

There is some dissatisfaction in the emergency services across the UK concerning proposed changes to the way 999 (911) calls are handled.

http://news.scotsman.com/aberdeen.cfm?id=1160592006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/4509870.stm

Best I could come up with, though it's been all over the news.

Now just maybe, the firemen are disgruntled and de-motivated. Perhaps they have been asked to volunteer to hand out leaflets on their time off. Perhaps they just said - no, bugger off, this is my time.

However, given the original report, I go with the interpretation that we have been discussing.

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SkyeTisTheSeasonWynters
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quote:

In this day and age, how offended could anyone become by the sight of a few men dressed up as nuns chanting anti-christian sentiments? If you were a devout christian, you would just laugh it off, otherwise you would just laugh.

I read the piece, which is now a 404 page [Confused] I don't recall anyone saying they were chanting anti-christian sentiments - were they?

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Mistletoey Chloe
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This original account of the parade says nothing about anyone dressed up as nuns or being anti-Christian: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3821479.stm

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SkyeTisTheSeasonWynters
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quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
This original account of the parade says nothing about anyone dressed up as nuns or being anti-Christian: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3821479.stm

Thanks, Chloe - I had read it, but thought maybe I missed something [Smile]

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Peter: You better watch who you're calling a child Lois, because if I'm a child, that makes you a pedophile, and I'll be damned if I'm going to stand here and be lectured by a pervert

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Eddylizard
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5304524.stm

quote:
'Lampooning the Church'

"They were asked, while in uniform, to hand out leaflets during a demonstration where they had legitimate concerns about being the subject of taunts and jokes, and in which in some cases, their religious sensibilities would have been grossly offended by people dressed as priests and nuns lampooning the Church."


I moderate my comment. Lampooning the church may not be quite the same as anti-christian.

ETA: Chanting also was probably an incorrect choice of words, since there is nothing to indicate their lampoonery was vocal.

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Mistletoey Chloe
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What percentage of the firefighters were Catholic, I wonder?

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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
What percentage of the firefighters were Catholic, I wonder?

What is the difference? Even if only one's religion was being lampooned, it seems like some sensitivity to him from his superiors would be in order.

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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BlueStar
Happy Holly Days


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So there's no evidence whatsoever that anyone was dressed up as a priest or a nun, the only time it was brought up was in a hypothetical musing about what the firefighters might have been concerned about offending their delicate little sensibilities, courtesy of Archbishop Idiot.

I'm sure if Muslim firefighters refused to hand out fire safety leaflets at a choir service, this guy would be right behind them, right?

I don't find the firefighters actions offensive, just laughably pathetic.

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
I think Troberg meant more in an ethical sense. They were aware of what they were doing; but they were still wrong to do so.
Yep. I meant it as a bad decision, and made no reflections on if it was conscious or not.

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SiKboy
Deck the Malls


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I just want to quickly point out that no, the firefighters DO NOT attend KKK events and hand out fire safety leaflets.

[Pause for people to take intake of breath to start their "Ah! Preferential treatment for teh gay!!!" rants]

But that is probably largely because we are talking about firefighters in Scotland, and the KKK are (AFAIK) a purely american problem... And as for how many of the firefighters are Catholic, I would venture that the watch commander would not know this information and would NEVER ask that question. In Glasgow, an employer would get SCREWED in the courts if it came out he was asking what religion his employees are, what team they supported or sometimes even what school they went to. (The thinking on that one is that if you reply with "St Margerates of the immaculate whatever" it can be extrapolated that you are probably catholic.)

My take on this is that there is BOUND to have been at least a small group who protested against the pride march. There pretty much always is, anywhere in the world. As long as the fire brigade were handing out fire safety leaflets to anyone who would take them, gay pride marcher, wee free homophobe, random passer by, then no support for the event can realistically be inferred, and the disciplined firefighters dont have a leg to stand on. They are essentially claiming that they dont have to perform part of their job on gay people, and that is just not on.

If they can refuse to hand out leaflets (and fire prevention/education IS part of their job by the way) to gay marchers, then what other parts of their job can they refuse to do? Refuse to rescue gay cats from trees? Refuse to put out a burning mosque because they think allah is a pagan moon god? If you work for a public service like the NHS, polis or fire brigade, then you have a responsibility to check your prejudices/politics/religion at the door when you start your shift and do your damn job for everyone. If you cant do that then maybe you need to find a new job.

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pinqy
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by SkyeWynters:
quote:
You don't consider attending and participating in an event to associate a person with that cause?
No, of course not. There is no logical standing between doing one's job (i.e. handing out leaflets) and being associated with whatever is happening around you. If I were at this particular parade and I saw these firefighters, my first thought would NOT be: "Gee, they're gay friendly!" I would think: "They're handing out pamplets on fire saftey - I should grab one"
Actually, I doubt that. First you would see their uniforms and that they're there, not what they're doing. So you couldn't think "They're handing out pamplets on fire saftey - I should grab one" because there's no way you would know what they were doing at first.

And if, when you see someone taking part in a parade you don't think they support the parade, then you're very odd.

quote:
quote:
Saving a person whose house is on fire would not make anyone think you supported any of that person's personal beliefs.
And handing out pamphlets on FIRE SAFETY does? I'm just using your reasoning.
No, you're not using any reasoning. Attending a political parade...Attending, taking part, participating. I mean seriously, you're still saying that when you see a parade for a particular cause you don't think that the people in the parade support the cause? That some are just random people caught up?

quote:
Wanting to protect a group of your city is "weird"? And handing out leaflets on fire prevention IS part of their duties.
No, handing out fire safety leaflets at a political parade IS weird. Do they go to random events? Do they do it at the local Labour party rallies?


quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
pinqy, you seem to be assuming that this is the *only* independent event at which firefighters hand out safety leaflets. I see no indication that this is the case.


No, I wasn't assuming it, I'm just not understanding which random events are chosen. For community events, such as a Village Fete, or a School fair, things for the general community, I'd expect to see the police and firefighters and if there's a military base nearby, soldiers or sailors etc. But at a political event, or something to fight for a specific cause, I just don't see why fire safety leaflets would be appropriate.
quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
In this day and age, how offended could anyone become by the sight of a few men dressed up as nuns chanting anti-christian sentiments? If you were a devout christian, you would just laugh it off, otherwise you would just laugh.

I'm sorry, you'll have to supply me with a list of groups it's ok to offend and insult. My mother taught me you shouldn't offend or insult anyone so I'm not aware that it is ok to do it to some people. Can we mock Muslims? Whites? Gays? Blacks? Hindus? Methodists? The French? (ok, I knew that one). Personal insults? And I'm curious who appointed you authority to tell people whether or not they should feel insulted or offended.
quote:
Originally posted by Sikboy:
They are essentially claiming that they dont have to perform part of their job on gay people, and that is just not on.

Bullshit. I'm getting tired of that strawman argument. Attending a parade in a supportive capacity is different in all ways from refusing to help a person.


On the other hand...having read more of the stories, I found in ageneral article on the event that
quote:
The event also includes a health and community fair, music performances and the official Pride Party.
That might change things. The impression I got from the other articles is that they were being asked to be in or alongside the actual march. Depending on the nature of the "health and community fair" (I'm not entirely sure what they mean by that) it would be a different matter. A set booth or station that had a direct connection to the theme (of health and safety) is different than being in or alongside a political parade.

pinqy

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
And if, when you see someone taking part in a parade you don't think they support the parade, then you're very odd.
[snip]

On the other hand...having read more of the stories, I found in ageneral article on the event that
quote:
The event also includes a health and community fair, music performances and the official Pride Party.
That might change things. The impression I got from the other articles is that they were being asked to be in or alongside the actual march. Depending on the nature of the "health and community fair" (I'm not entirely sure what they mean by that) it would be a different matter. A set booth or station that had a direct connection to the theme (of health and safety) is different than being in or alongside a political parade.

pinqy

That was the impression I had all along.

ETA: Specifically, I never got the impression that they were being asked to march in the parade.

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pinqy
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The articles never mentioned anything else but the march. It wasn't said at all that there were any other events besides the march going on and the way the articles were phrased it definitely sounded like they were being asked to be alongside the actual march.

pinqy

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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"In" is rather different from "alongside." The impression I got is that there was a large group of people, mostly watching the parade rather than participating, and, like other gatherings of large groups of people, this was seen as an opportunity to spread information about fire safety.

I also think (although I have no evidence for this) that the big tough firemen didn't want to do it, because people (read: men) might make jokes about them being hot and sexy. The horror! Since, even if there were people dressed up as nuns and priests lampooning Catholicism, the firemen were unlikely to know *in advance* that there would be people dressed up as nuns and priests lampooning Catholicism, that seems to be a bit of an after-the-fact justification.

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AdmiralDinty
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Chloe:
The horror! Since, even if there were people dressed up as nuns and priests lampooning Catholicism, the firemen were unlikely to know *in advance* that there would be people dressed up as nuns and priests lampooning Catholicism, that seems to be a bit of an after-the-fact justification.

I'm not so sure. That's been sort of a standard for many gay pride events over the past few years. IIRC, there's even a gay clown troup out of San Francisco that parodies nuns and priests. So, it's at least conceivable. Whether or not this was an actual part of their thought process is another question.

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"I wanna bite the hand that feeds me. I wanna bite that hand so badly. I wanna make them wish they'd never seen me." - Elvis Costello

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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by BlueStar:
So there's no evidence whatsoever that anyone was dressed up as a priest or a nun, the only time it was brought up was in a hypothetical musing about what the firefighters might have been concerned about offending their delicate little sensibilities, courtesy of Archbishop Idiot.

It's possible "Archbishop Idiot" is refering to The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, an activist group that dress in religious drag and attend parades in America. They are based there but have "missions" all over the world now. I don't know if they were going to be at this specific parade or not, but the possibility isn't hypothetical musing.
quote:
In 1991, Sister Vicious Power Hungry Bitch and Sister X evangelized in Europe and elsewhere, where there are now numerous convents of Perpetual Indulgence in Germany, France, and England.
quote:
I'm sure if Muslim firefighters refused to hand out fire safety leaflets at a choir service, this guy would be right behind them, right?
I think a more accurate comparison would be a Muslim not wanting to attend an event that might include a group of men dressed in berkas and using Islamic imagry in jest. Something tells me that wouldn't go over well. However, I would agree with your hopes that our Archbishop Idiot would be supportive of a Muslim's "delicate little sensibilities."

I support the Sisters' right to demonstrate in the way they have chosen, but I also support someone not wanting to be forced to watch their religion being openly mocked.

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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