snopes.com Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » Non-UL Chat » Amusement Bark » Disappointed by the Iconic Scene (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Disappointed by the Iconic Scene
Amigone201
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Amigone201   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
I must be missing the point: do you guys want these lines to be *expressed* in great flaring melodramatic emphasis, with horns blazing and spotlights burning?

[...]

The best "iconic" moments depend on context, not upon mere volume. Any idiot can bellow, "Stella!" Brando's performance was meaningful because he had already gotten the audience to invest their emotions in the character. Without that, it would have been as empty as a thousand-and-one "Noooo!" scenes in the lesser catalog of forgettable films.

You seem to be referring to A Streetcar Named Desire, which, having never seen, I can't comment on. I can tell you, however, that Brando's "contenda" speech in On the Waterfront hardly lived up to its hype. In fact, I can prove it.

This is critic James Berardinelli's take on Brando's performance in that scene:
quote:
...the powerful one-on-one between Terry and Charley where Brando gives his famous "I coulda been a contender" speech. That scene probably represents the best work ever done by either of its participants (Steiger and Brando). The power of the "contender" scene isn't so much in the words as it is in the way they're delivered - the simple pain in Brando's voice is echoed in his eyes and mannerisms.
Now watch a video of the scene, and tell me it's anywhere near as good as Berardinelli describes it:

http://grouper.com/video/MediaDetails.aspx?id=1618927&ml=o%3D7%26fk%3DScreenBites%26fx%3D

--------------------
Check out my blog! http://fundiewatch.blogspot.com

Posts: 1527 | From: Buffalo, NY | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Freshman
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Freshman   Author's Homepage   E-mail Freshman   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Amigone: I kinda agree. My guess is that it depends on how involved a person gets in the film. I gotta see the whole film to judge, maybe it'll make an impact on me

--------------------
"High-Five!" - Borat

Posts: 1056 | From: Racine, WI | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
christmas tree kitapper
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 1 posted      Profile for christmas tree kitapper     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
quote:
Originally posted by christmas tree kitapper:
I feel that way about Rocky Horror: what exactly is the big deal about this movie?

The film itself is okay. Seeing it in the cinema with a bunch of other people also dressed up, shouting and throwing stuff at the screen, is great fun.
While I wasn't dressed up, this *was* how I saw the movie. Still came away with a "I stayed up till 3 am to go watch this?" feeling.

--------------------
"I have never in my life been more disappointed by a politician I voted for than I have been with George Bush. He is a total liberal."- overheard by me on the shuttle to the U of A game on Nov. 11th.

Posts: 3878 | From: Tucson, AZ | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Macheath
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Macheath     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by christmas tree kitapper:
quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
quote:
Originally posted by christmas tree kitapper:
I feel that way about Rocky Horror: what exactly is the big deal about this movie?

The film itself is okay. Seeing it in the cinema with a bunch of other people also dressed up, shouting and throwing stuff at the screen, is great fun.
While I wasn't dressed up, this *was* how I saw the movie. Still came away with a "I stayed up till 3 am to go watch this?" feeling.
See, that's the problem. The folks who go to Rocky Horror don't stay up to 3 a.m. to watch it. They stay up to 3 a.m. to be a part of it. The movie exists as an excuse for them to get together, bond as a group through ritualization, and cut loose. The movie, in a way, is the least important part of the gatherings. If you don't feel the need to belong to a group, you're more likely to see it as ridiculous or even crazy. If you ARE looking for acceptance, then it can be very appealing. Rocky Horror really puts the "cult" in "cult classic."

Mack da "transylvanian sociologist" Knife

--------------------
http://www.artcpodcast.org - There is adventure in sound!

Posts: 1895 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


Icon 504 posted      Profile for Silas Sparkhammer   Author's Homepage   E-mail Silas Sparkhammer   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Amigone201:
Now watch a video of the scene, and tell me it's anywhere near as good as Berardinelli describes it:

http://grouper.com/video/MediaDetails.aspx?id=1618927&ml=o%3D7%26fk%3DScreenBites%26fx%3D

Yep. It's a great scene. The pain is a big part of it. The character is just coming to terms with the fact that it *isn't* his brother's fault, but his own, that he is a bum. He starts out saying, "You should'a taken better care of me." But by the end, "...A bum, which is what I am, let's face it." That makes the scene both tragic and heroic; he begins to accept responsibility for his own fate.

But, as noted above, it depends on all the rest of the movie. Without the lead-up, Henry V's inspirational St. Crispin's Day speech is still pretty good, but in the full context, it is great. Without the lead-up, Hal 9000 singing "Daisy, Daisy" is stupid; in the full context, it is a biting example of bathos (two conflicting dramatic moods expressed at the same time.)

The same is true of this scene. Alone, out of context, it's okay. But once we know the characters, know what they have won and lost, it attains greatness.

Silas

Posts: 16801 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


Icon 1 posted      Profile for chillas     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Blasphemer! You shall be thrown in to the Great Pit of Carkoon where the Sarlacc shall digest you for a thousand years.

Even as a kid seeing it for the first time, I never got what the big dramatic threat was. You're gonna die from dehydration long before the whole digestion thing becomes an issue.

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ThistleSoftware     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I know I've had this experience with more than one horror movie, where once I finally saw this long-hyped classic scary scene it wasn't that big a deal, but I can't recall any of the particulars at the moment. So I'll add a movie that was the opposite: Jaws. I had always heard my parents and their friends and siblings say that it was terrifying, one of the scariest movies ever, and a brilliant film to boot. So naturally, since I know everything and my parents know nothing, I assumed it would be cheesy and not at all scary. Then I saw it. Even on TBS, edited and with commercial interruptions, it had me gritting my teeth and clutching the arm of the couch I was so nervous. Sometimes the slower pace of older films is so nervewracking, it really adds to the tension.

--------------------
Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


Icon 504 posted      Profile for Silas Sparkhammer   Author's Homepage   E-mail Silas Sparkhammer   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Blasphemer! You shall be thrown in to the Great Pit of Carkoon where the Sarlacc shall digest you for a thousand years.

Even as a kid seeing it for the first time, I never got what the big dramatic threat was. You're gonna die from dehydration long before the whole digestion thing becomes an issue.
No, no: it keeps you alive!

(You'd go quite insane before a millennium had passed, but you'd still be alive and able to feel each strand of tissue being eroded by the creature's digestive liquids! Oh, how Lovecraftian!)

Silas

Posts: 16801 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Aimee Evilpixie
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 503 posted      Profile for Aimee Evilpixie   Author's Homepage   E-mail Aimee Evilpixie   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Han Solo can shoot a gun, wheras Luke can do magic and has such good reflexes that he can deflect bolts that travel at the speed of light with a thin sword. How is Luke not the cool option?

Mark Hamill's weak, whiny, watery, wimpy, wallowing, wet-behind-the-willy, walk-through performance ("Carrie!") comes to mind.

"I wanna be a Jedi Knight like my father." "I'm a pretty good pilot too, you know."

Solo got all the good lines. "This ain't like dustin' crops, boy!"

Silas

Aww, Luke's whiny, but I always had a crush on him. I think he's a cutie. And he gets better in the later movies, so it's not like he spends all three movies being a little whiny-pants doofus (unlike Anakin... My gods, this little twerp becomes VADER?!).

Plus he has the Force. The Force is awesome.

Aimee "I wonder what other things he can effect with the Force..." Evilpixie

--------------------
Ugg want you find JESUS!

My website!

Posts: 1853 | From: Washington (The State) | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


Icon 1 posted      Profile for trollface   Author's Homepage   E-mail trollface   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
Sometimes the slower pace of older films is so nervewracking, it really adds to the tension.

Please could you tell the makers of modern horror films this? While you're at it, could you point out to them that having something unexpected happen accompanied by a loud noise isn't a decent scare? A simple ball bouncing down the steps in The Changeling is scarier than 99% of the stuff you get nowadays.

--------------------
seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
gnome
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for gnome   E-mail gnome   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I actually loved Casablanca when I finally saw it... including the final lines. I was blown away and have always understood why it was considered one of the all-time greats.

As for Luke vs. Han, people want to be Han because he's cooler, as simple as that. Luke is a nifty hero and magical and all, but he's not "cool". Until the third movie. Then he gets to kick ass and be cooler than Han for one film. I don't think Mark Hamill has approached that level of cool ever since.

Posts: 418 | From: New Port Richey, FL | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


Icon 504 posted      Profile for Silas Sparkhammer   Author's Homepage   E-mail Silas Sparkhammer   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gnome:
I actually loved Casablanca when I finally saw it... including the final lines. I was blown away and have always understood why it was considered one of the all-time greats.

As for Luke vs. Han, people want to be Han because he's cooler, as simple as that. Luke is a nifty hero and magical and all, but he's not "cool". Until the third movie. Then he gets to kick ass and be cooler than Han for one film. I don't think Mark Hamill has approached that level of cool ever since.

His voice characterization of The Joker for the Batman animated series was Top Notch Cool!

And, yeah, at least Luke finally did grow up; Anakin sure as hell never did. (Obi Wan should have gone and pushed the remnants into the lava, just to finish things off once and for all. Sloppy. Lack of attention to details like that can get you stuck in the desert for eighteen years and then cut in half.)

Also, maybe a matter of personal taste, but I'd rather have a cool anti-gravity spaceship, even if it's just a bulk freighter, than magical powers and a sacred sword. Man, think of the money I could make offering cheap earth-to-orbit hauling for the world's space agencies!

Silas

Posts: 16801 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
MaxKaladin
The First USA Noel


Icon 1 posted      Profile for MaxKaladin   E-mail MaxKaladin   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Of course, people wanted to be Han! He had a hot-rod spaceship (even if it didn't look like much). He had a big wookie sidekick. He had a laser gun. He had a lot of cool lines. He was cool! Luke, didn't really get to do much "cool" stuff until the third movie. Mostly, he just bumbled around screwing up and getting bailed out by people.

Also, from the perspective of those of us who saw them coming out, consider jedi weren't all that impressive in the first movie. We got to see Ben take off some guy's arm, Luke practicing (badly) deflecting laser beams with his lightsaber, some "magic" tricks and a fight between Ben and Vader that really wasn't much of a swordfight. We didn't get to see any of the impressive stuff from later movies that makes Jedi seem so cool. Before the second movie (arguably, before the third) came out, Jedi didn't really look that impressive.

Posts: 716 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Christie     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MaxKaladin:

Before the second movie (arguably, before the third) came out, Jedi didn't really look that impressive.

I disagree. I can still remember sitting in the theatre watching Star Wars and being pretty damned impressed.

--------------------
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


Icon 1 posted      Profile for trollface   Author's Homepage   E-mail trollface   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MaxKaladin:
We got to see Ben take off some guy's arm[...]



Cooler than shooting someone under a table.

quote:
[...]Luke practicing (badly) deflecting laser beams with his lightsaber[...]
Did you just read what you wrote? Using a sword made out of light? In a fashion that means he's quick enough to deflect beams moving at the speed of light? So he's not great at it yet - he can react to things that move at the speed of light, and uses a light sabre. Light sabres were always cool.

quote:
[...]some "magic" tricks[...]
Yes magic!

quote:
[...]a fight between Ben and Vader that really wasn't much of a swordfight.
In which Ben deliberately lets himself get cut down, so that his body will vanish and he'll become "more powerful than you can possibly imagine"! Okay, that last one turned out to be another of his porkies, but we didn't know that at the time.

The Jedi were always cool.

--------------------
seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

Posts: 16061 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Midgard_Dragon   E-mail Midgard_Dragon   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Here's one for the overrated iconic scene: Phoebe Cates in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Yeah, she's beautiful, yeah, they're very nice, but it wasn't that great of a scene, IMO.

--------------------
Midgard Dragon
-==UDIC==-
MidgardDragon's MySpace

Posts: 2455 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Amigone201
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Amigone201   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Midgard_Dragon:
Here's one for the overrated iconic scene: Phoebe Cates in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Yeah, she's beautiful, yeah, they're very nice, but it wasn't that great of a scene, IMO.

Since we've seen many, many boobs in those types of movies since then (both literal and figurative), I can see how it would be heading toward old hat.

--------------------
Check out my blog! http://fundiewatch.blogspot.com

Posts: 1527 | From: Buffalo, NY | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2