Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
Make no mistake. The Yankees lost the NLDS. They were hot, and they played a team that staggered through the end of the regular season. They had one of the greatest offensive teams in the history of baseball, and they couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. Mussina couldn't hold a lead. Johnson pitched like a 43 year old who'd just had an epidural a few days prior. Jaret Wright pitched like Jaret Wright.
The Yankees were the better team. They lost, plain and simple.
Torre needs to go. He was the perfect manager for the Yankee teams that were filled with self motivators. The current roster of hired guns isn't going to respond to his managerial style. He was great as serving as a buffer between Big Stein and his (self-motivating) players, but this team needs a fire lit under it, not a chaperone.
My suggestions? Get rid of Torre and A-Rod. Hope that Bernie retires. Try to buy out Johnson's final season and get him to retire. Sign Matsuzaka. Avoid Zito. Don't pick up the option on Sheffield or Mussina, but try to re-sign Mussina for 2 years at 7 figures each and no more. Keep Bowa, Pena, Guidry, and Mattingly.
quote:Originally posted by Zorro: "Looking forward to the bloodletting in the Bronx this winter"
Kind of makes you want to grab a bowl of popcorn and watch the heads roll, doesn't it?
Looking at your location, I have a feeling mine is for a slightly different reason than yours.
ETA: Zor "trying to keep a sense of humor about it while I watch me some hockey" ro
-------------------- "Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!" -John Keating, "Dead Poets Society" Posts: 2861 | From: New Jersey | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I heard that on the radio this morning. There's rumors Pinella is going to be brought in to replace him. (And I'm not the only Yankees fan screaming for blood, not by a long shot, by the sound of it from the local sports radio station this morning.
-------------------- "Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!" -John Keating, "Dead Poets Society" Posts: 2861 | From: New Jersey | Registered: May 2004
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posted
When the Padres scored two runs in the first tonight, I thought just maybe they had a shot. Carpenter didn't look like he was at the top of his game. But then the Cards came right back to tie it, and it was pretty much all downhill from there.
Ah well. The three teams I would have liked to see advance (San Diego, Los Angeles, and Minnesota) all lost, but at least the Padres weren't swept. So, from here, I'll be pulling for the Tigers.
But I think the Mets will take it. Better them than the Yankees, at least.
Wow, now that their team has lost, I've come to have even more contempt for Yankee fans. I thought I'd be pleased to see them choke on their smug sense of entitlement, but no - this has made it even worse somehow. All I'm hearing now is Torre/A-Rod/Williams is to blame and they need to be fired because apparently any season in which they don't win the World Series is a compelte and utter failure.
You want to know who is to blame?
The Tigers. The Tigers were, for this series, the better team. That's the end of it.
Quit whining and get over it.
(edited to fix typo)
-------------------- Come on, come on - spin a little tighter Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002
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Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
quote:Originally posted by Zorro: I heard that on the radio this morning. There's rumors Pinella is going to be brought in to replace him. (And I'm not the only Yankees fan screaming for blood, not by a long shot, by the sound of it from the local sports radio station this morning.
I'm not convinced that Piniella is the right guy for the job. I'd love to see Willie Randolph come back, but now that Torre's on his way out, Minaya will stop dawdling and extend his contract. Bowa would be interesting. Girardi seems like too much of a taskmaster - great for a young team, or a team with a relatively low talent level, but not so great for a team full of prissy superstars.
chillas, look at it from this perspective. The Yankees had the best record in the Major Leagues. They were on a roll heading into the postseason. They had their entire offense back. The Tigers played very poorly to finish the regular season.
Put another way, the Yankees couldn't muster any offense against Playoff Kenny Rogers, a guy who famously melts down in the postseason to the tune of an 8.85 ERA.
There's no doubt that the Tigers outplayed the Yankees in every facet of the game - they outhit, outpitched, outfielded, and outmanaged them. Based on the factors above, though, the question is whether that happened because they were a better team, or the Yankees grossly underachieved. I think that the results of the ALCS will go a long way in determining which is the case. If the A's dominate the Tigers, it'll be the latter, and if the Tigers dominate the A's, it'll be the former.
posted
Those are rational reasons, Mr. F. That's a far cry from the screams of "fire (name here) - it's their fault!" Like I said, it's the infuriating sense of entitlement that I see from so many Yankees fans that if their team doesn't win it all, there must be someone to blame, because their team couldn't possibly just get outplayed.
ETA: What I'm getting at is, a team fails or succeeds as a team. If your team doesn't do as well as you like, you re-evaluate. That's reasonable, and I believe that's pretty much what you're saying. You can't pin this on a single person.
-------------------- Come on, come on - spin a little tighter Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I don't blame just one player, or even Torre. That's why I'm looking forward to the bloodletting- I think there are a whole lotta people on that team who are to blame, and who need to be gotten rid of. And, as someone who watched and rooted for the team during the suckass eighties, I certainly do not have a sense of entitlement about them winning every year, but if they're gonna assemble that amount of talent (and shell out that much money doing it), I definitely think there needs to be better results than a swift exit from the playoffs.
I definitely do not think Girardi is the right man for the job- he just played with several of these guys not long ago, and I don't see him having enough seniority to have all these superstars listen to him.
-------------------- "Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!" -John Keating, "Dead Poets Society" Posts: 2861 | From: New Jersey | Registered: May 2004
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Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
quote:Originally posted by Zorro: I definitely do not think Girardi is the right man for the job- he just played with several of these guys not long ago, and I don't see him having enough seniority to have all these superstars listen to him.
He was being groomed as Torre's possible successor when he was the Yankees bench coach, but I think the Florida situation probably scared them off. If he can't get along with Loria, there's no way in hell he'd get along with Steinbrenner.
quote:Originally posted by a chillas in the air: Those are rational reasons, Mr. F. That's a far cry from the screams of "fire (name here) - it's their fault!" Like I said, it's the infuriating sense of entitlement that I see from so many Yankees fans that if their team doesn't win it all, there must be someone to blame, because their team couldn't possibly just get outplayed.
Joe Torre has to be one of the longest-serving active managers in baseball. Every time the Yankees don't win the World Series, the media floats the idea of him being ousted. But it has reached the point where you need to look at some absolutely inexplicable decisions like throwing Al Leiter in relief situations for every game in the 2005 ALDS when he had only a week of regular season relief experience, continually playing Sheffield at first base despite only two weeks of first base experience, and vastly overusing Ron Villone and Scott Proctor.
Also look at the way that the Yankees lost. In the 2003 World Series, they looked absolutely unmotivated after beating the Red Sox. (Oh, another Torre bullpen blunder- Jeff Weaver in extra innings when only two other relievers had been used.) In 2004, they rolled over for the Red Sox after going up 3-0. In 2005 they failed to take advantage of Colon leaving Game 5 early and got completely shut down by Ervin Santana in relief.
And like it or not- they got outplayed by a team that they should have walked over this year. Kenny Rogers is a career postseason choker and the Yankees usually kill him. When they swing at stuff ten feet outside the plate, that's trying to blast everything out of the park, not great pitching. Bonderman didn't look great Saturday, the Yankees looked inept. There's no way that a pitcher throws only 6 balls over the first three innings without the other team overswinging and being to aggressive.
I've seen the Yankees get beat. They got beat by the Diamondbacks in 2001. They got beat by the Angels in 2002 and 2005. But lately, it looks more and more like they start to mail it in when the postseason comes around. They took 5 out of 7 games against the Tigers this year. The two that they lost were because Mariano Rivera was unavailable, causing Scott Proctor and Kyle Farnsworth to blow game-costing saves.
This is a team that needs a kick in the ass and a major overhaul in attitude. Is firing Torre the answer? I don't know. But it can't hurt. And the rumors about him leaving after this season have been floating around anyway, going as far as to imply that the Yankees are secretly paying Lou Piniella to NOT manage this year so that he can take over when Torre leaves.
But I don't really agree with your assessment that it's a sense of entitlement that is causing these outcries. Some teams get eliminated from the playoffs and they say, "Well it was great to be here so let's see if we can do it again next year." The Yankees say "We have the resources, so how can we improve to keep this from happening again?"
Posts: 345 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by keokuk: Facing elimination, why didn't the Padres start Peavy on full rest yesterday?
Well, the logic I heard was if they had done so and won, they still would have had to have someone to pitch in Monday's game. So that would presumably have been Williams, or they might have brought Wells back on short rest.
Given that the Padres have been playing better (and particularly, hitting better) on the road than at home, I think saving the "better" pitcher for the home game might have been the right move. And frankly, Peavy hasn't had his best season -- and he certainly was outpitched by Carpenter in game one -- so I am not really sure we would have been better off with him anyway.
In any case, it's done. The Padres bats were just asleep. This has been a problem for them ever since I've been following them, really -- they just don't hit consistently. They have their hot streaks, but then they have streaks like they had in this series. Their pitching actually did a pretty good job of containing the Cardinals most of the time, but when you don't score....
quote:"I made it very clear how I wanted the Tigers to perform this postseason, and they failed on every level to produce the desired results," Steinbrenner's statement continued. "They had several opportunities to turn this series around, but they just went out there and played like they didn't care whether the Yankees won or lost."
Of course, it could be worse. I heard Steinbrenner was so mad at Cory Lidle that he traded him to al Qaeda....
Ok, OK.... I actually stole that one from Al Franken, so blame the liberals.
posted
Those of you in other playoff cities, did/does McDonald's have a promotion where you can get a Big Mac for $1 on days that your team plays? This is the second year they've done that here in St. Louis. (Earlier this evening, So Taguchi assured me of at least one more day on this offer.) In '04, it was $1 Big Macs the day after a playoff win.
-------------------- "Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy Posts: 3572 | From: St. Louis, MO | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Woot! The Tigers sweep the A's! And IIRC, they have home field advantage for the series.
ETA: I wonder if Yankee fans are willing to concede yet that the better team won. Nah...
-------------------- Come on, come on - spin a little tighter Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Does anybody know what the exact dates for the world series are going to be? I'm curious because the Detroit Free Press Marathon and Half Marathon are being held on the 29th and someone I train with (I'm walking the Half) said it would overlap with the world series. Which would be incredibly inconvient because it starts outside of Comerica Park and ends at Ford Field and all the hotels in the vicinity are booked for the race and many of the major roads are closed down, as well.
Posts: 498 | From: Ypsilanti, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Congrats to the Tigers. However, my team, the Mets, are currently losing 5-0 against the Cards in game 3 of a tied series. Needless to say, I'm bummin' big time. I really wanted the Mets in the WS and it looks like that may not happen now. Oh, well, if they don't make it, I'm going to be rooting for the Tigers because 1) they beat the Yankees!, and 2) I want them to kick the Cardinals asses! That'll show 'em for shutting out my team! Posts: 1128 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by HelloLlama: Does anybody know what the exact dates for the world series are going to be? I'm curious because the Detroit Free Press Marathon and Half Marathon are being held on the 29th and someone I train with (I'm walking the Half) said it would overlap with the world series. Which would be incredibly inconvient because it starts outside of Comerica Park and ends at Ford Field and all the hotels in the vicinity are booked for the race and many of the major roads are closed down, as well.
All the games are night games, starting at 8 pm EST.
Games 1 and 2 will be in Detroit on Saturday the 21st and Sunday the 22nd.
Games 3, 4, and if necessary, 5, will be in New York or St. Louis on the 24th, 25th, and 26th.
Games 6 and 7, if necessary, will be in Detroit on the 28th and 29th.
Posts: 345 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
The announcers were saying tonight that it was this night in 1984 that the Tigers won the Series...perhaps a good sign of things to come
I suprised my husband when we were watching the first game of the playoffs. He didn't think I liked baseball...I told him, it's not like it's the Lions playing because this team is actually good
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quote:Originally posted by Algae: Yay, Tigers! And what a way to win it - Ordonez's walk-off home run had all of us cheering!
Especially those of us who wanted the Cardinals/Mets game to end at a decent hour!
quote:Originally posted by Hazed: Congrats to the Tigers. However, my team, the Mets, are currently losing 5-0 against the Cards in game 3 of a tied series. Needless to say, I'm bummin' big time.
That's a final. Jeff Suppan, the winning pitcher, outscored the Mets by leading off the second inning with a home run. The Cardinals have now won more games against the Mets in the 2006 NLCS than they did in the 2000 NLCS.
quote:Oh, well, if they don't make it, I'm going to be rooting for the Tigers because 1) they beat the Yankees!
I agree with you on this one.
quote:and 2) I want them to kick the Cardinals asses! That'll show 'em for shutting out my team!
You do remember that Game 1 was a shutout against my team, don't you?
-------------------- "Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy Posts: 3572 | From: St. Louis, MO | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by mgbdriver: Congratulations, Detroit Tigers, AL Champs!
mgb "still able to rattle off the 1968 batting order" driver
Let's go, then. No fair peeking.
FWIW, here's the '69 Mets' lineup:
Agee, CF Boswell, 2B Jones, LF Clendenon, 1B Charles, 3B Swoboda, RF Grote, C Harrelson, SS Seaver, P.
Pogue
-------------------- Let's drink to the causes in your life: Your family, your friends, the union, your wife. Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:McAuliffe 2B Stanley CF Kaline RF Cash 1B Freehan C Horton LF Wert 3B Oyler SS McLain, Lolich, Sparma, Wilson P
Heh, my younger son's name is Kaline...can you guess who my husband is a big big fan of?
Yeah those silly Tigers...they should have lost. I guess no one thought to tell them that.
P&LL, Syl
-------------------- Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire Posts: 1944 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Sylvanz: Heh, my younger son's name is Kaline...can you guess who my husband is a big big fan of?
In the old Hey, Arnold cartoon on Nickelodeon, there was an ep in which Arnold met up with his favorite ballplayer, whose name was Mickey Kaline.
Pogue
-------------------- Let's drink to the causes in your life: Your family, your friends, the union, your wife. Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:In the old Hey, Arnold cartoon on Nickelodeon, there was an ep in which Arnold met up with his favorite ballplayer, whose name was Mickey Kaline.
Pogue
Yup, I've seen it many times. The kids were young then and fans of the show. Kaline (ours) was quite puffed up about that episode.
P&LL, Syl
-------------------- Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire Posts: 1944 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
At least there's one series with some degree of excitement and question on who will win.
If the Mets don't win Game 6, this postseason could potentially join 1998 as the only other wildcard-era year that no postseason series has gone to the maximum number of possible games.
Posts: 345 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Okay, I was dozing off last night while listening to the game on ESPN radio. Was anybody else listening? One of the Cardinals hit a fly ball that landed between the infield (I heard something about "just over the outstretched glove of Reyes") and the outfield, and I swear the broadcaster referred to this hit not as a bloop or a Texas leaguer, but as a ducksnort.
A ducksnort! That woke me up. Did anybody else hear "ducksnort"?! I called my sister in Phoenix (she works for the Diamondbacks), but got her voice mail. She e-mailed me today to say she never heard of a ducksnort.
Blooper, Texas leaguer, little bingle, seeing-eye hit, frozen rope, dinger, tater, four-bagger, no-doubter, bloop 'n' a blast, comebacker...ducksnort?! DUCKSNORT?! I can't stand it!
No, really, was anybody else listening to the game on the radio? Am I the only one who heard this?
(Sgt. Max Greevey says he is rooting for the Tigers, btw, for obvious reasons.)
-------------------- "The Potato Festival will never be the same without Evelena." (from an obituary in the Charleston, WV, Gazette) Posts: 215 | From: living here in Allentown, PA | Registered: Nov 2005
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