posted
I really liked this show at first. I love the intelligent dialogue and many of the characters are compelling. But last week's episode took some of the shine off for me. Simon's line about how the other guy should be nice to his parents because "they work for a living" really bugged me. It was supposed to show Simon realized they have it easy, but it came off as condescending. They're basically talking about the viewer in a way that IMO combined pity and head-patting.
The dad yelling about the older brother being at war grated as well. Why couldn't he have been a school teacher or something less potentially divisive that still showed there are more important jobs in the world than show biz?
Jordan is pretty idiotic to get drunk like that and beg for friends. She's not in great standing with the network as is. A stunt like that after all the other drama could easily get her fired.
I hope NBC changes its mind and gives the show more time to find an audience and find its voice, but I'm not surprised it's not doing well. Yes it's an intelligent show, but it can also be condescending.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Looks like imminent is an understatement. They're already showing a rerun of Friday Night Lights in that timeslot. Its too bad. The show grated on me a bit, but its still probably better than whatever they'll replace it with or anything competing in that timeslot.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
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Mr. Furious
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Errata: The show grated on me a bit, but its still probably better than whatever they'll replace it with or anything competing in that timeslot.
Yeah, I agree. I certainly don't think that it was perfect, but it would've been nice to see it get its legs under it. I think Sorkin would be better served by creating a show for HBO or Showtime
Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
Y'know, after this episode, my opinion is starting to turn. I could deal with the B-plot of Tom's cardboard cutout parents, but this was too much.
I like Sorkin writing smart. I like that he thinks viewers are smart enough to get and like it. I do not like that everybody outside The Big City seems to be portrayed as stupid and/or evil. Things may turn in the second part, but it's going to be damn hard to sell me the hooker with the heart of gold.
posted
I didn't get that the folks outside The Big City were stupid and/or evil, actually. However, I did feel that playing on the "people from The Big City automatically assume that folks who live elsewhere are unsophisticated and/or stupid" stereotype to be pretty boring.
There were moments from this week's episode that I really enjoyed. There were plenty that made me grumble, though.
That being said, the read through of the "Jesus" skit actually had me chuckling a little. For once the show within a show stuff seemed mildly amusing.
Mack da "Jesus, it's hot in here. Can I open a window?" Knife
posted
I didn't find the "Jesus" sketch [it's not a skit, it's a sketch! Don't you remember Tom's little hissy fit with his parents?] to be that funny. The basic premise was kinda cool, but I didn't like the sketch.
Through most of the episode I just didn't care. I don't care if Tom spends the weekend in jail. If he went 120 mph through a small town- through anywhere really- and failed to appear in court later than he deserves to be punished according to the law. I don't care what the reason they hinted at later may be. I don't care if that night's show is in limbo- why don't they just show a rerun?
I like the show when it highlights stuff the way that line about how the TV networks aren't run by liberals, they are run by large corporations that are conservative. I don't like the show when it tries to make us root for the jerky celebrity instead of the average Joe. I am the average Joe, and so are most of the viewers! Well, I hope I'm slightly above the average Joe, but so do most of Sorkin's viewers.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I was hoping you used the word "skit" on purpose!
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I pretty much used it automatically, having forgotten the hissy fit entirely while I was typing the message. But that IS something I'd love to yell at that character.
Mack da "take THAT, you earnest nice guy, you!" Knife
posted
Now I'm confused. I thought this show was about to be cancelled; not that it matters to me either way.
-------------------- "I wanna bite the hand that feeds me. I wanna bite that hand so badly. I wanna make them wish they'd never seen me." - Elvis Costello Posts: 2291 | From: The Banks of the Merrimack, MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mr. Furious
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posted
quote:Originally posted by AdmiralDinty: Now I'm confused. I thought this show was about to be cancelled; not that it matters to me either way.
That's what was reported, but NBC denied it. The report wasn't official, and the denial may be a lie, so we really have no idea if it's going to be going away soon or not.
The ratings haven't been all that good, that much is certain.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Furious: The ratings haven't been all that good, that much is certain.
As I understand it, the only reason that it's been kept alive this long is that the small amount of viewers who do watch are disproportionately rich compared to viewers of most TV shows. So the assumption is that they get more use out of the advertising time than they might with a larger but less well-off audience.
Posts: 345 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mr. Furious: The ratings haven't been all that good, that much is certain.
As I understand it, the only reason that it's been kept alive this long is that the small amount of viewers who do watch are disproportionately rich compared to viewers of most TV shows. So the assumption is that they get more use out of the advertising time than they might with a larger but less well-off audience.
That very thinking is what kept The Office on the air past its first season. For the first six episodes or so (the first season was very short) the ratings were lower than some other shows that got the axe, but NBC recognized the value its audience had for advertisers. In a rare move, they had faith its appeal would expand and gave it time to blossom in its second season.
I doubt that Studio 60 will be given that chance, as it came with a lot more hype attached and expectations were a lot higher than they were for The Office at the outset. Plus, I will concede that the very concept of The Office is something more of the viewing public can relate to; we're not going to see a sudden surge in Studio 60's ratings because TV comedy show producers around the country start discovering it and saying "My god, that's just like where I work!"
We'll see how it does at Emmy time, though repeat success on that front didn't save Arrested Development.
Max "Did you tell him it was my joint?" Renn
-------------------- Sister Ann: DRIVE! DRIVE Crow T. Robot: Look, I'm already driving, there's no inherent quantity of driving that I can increase! If you want me to go faster, you should say so. Posts: 579 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2006
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Mr. Furious
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If it does get the axe, they should replace it with a show about the United Nations.
quote: Despite shaky ratings and some increasingly harsh critical comments, NBC announced last night that it would order additional episodes of the new drama “Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip.”
...
But yesterday Kevin Reilly, the president of NBC Entertainment, concluded negotiations with Warner Brothers, which produces the show, and with Mr. Sorkin for nine more episodes, which will take the series to the end of the current season.
Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
It looks like we're seeing some adjustments in the show. Spoilers below, so be warned. You crazy kids and your spoilers...
I really like the direction they've taken Jack. He just wasn't working as the show's token asshole. He can still be adversarial, but it's nice to see that he's being portrayed as a man of great integrity with this FCC storyline. I hope to see more of Ed Asner's character as well.
I was really skittish when I heard that they were going to pair up Jordan and Danny, but if it continues on its current path I think it'll be OK. The Matt/Harriet thing was probably inevitable.
posted
Cal is great. Marriet (I'm sure someone else has done the old name combination somewhere) is really irritating to me. For one thing, Harriet's character is terribly inconsistent. It's hard to believe an accomplished comedic actor, the anchor of a comedy sketch show, is incapable of telling a joke. For another . . . eh, the relationship is just so cliche.
There are some great characters in the show. Cal, Jack, Matt, Danny, Andy, and Lucy all are either already great or are promising. Most of the other female characters don't fare as well. I've been told this is almost a Sorkin trait, but I wouldn't know as I've not watched his other shows.
I still find Amanda Peet annoying, and it doesn't help that I don't care for her character much either.
quote:Originally posted by Macheath: Cal is great. Marriet (I'm sure someone else has done the old name combination somewhere) is really irritating to me. For one thing, Harriet's character is terribly inconsistent. It's hard to believe an accomplished comedic actor, the anchor of a comedy sketch show, is incapable of telling a joke. For another . . . eh, the relationship is just so cliche.
There are some great characters in the show. Cal, Jack, Matt, Danny, Andy, and Lucy all are either already great or are promising. Most of the other female characters don't fare as well. I've been told this is almost a Sorkin trait, but I wouldn't know as I've not watched his other shows.
I still find Amanda Peet annoying, and it doesn't help that I don't care for her character much either.
Mack da "Jack is my favorite character" Knife
I'm not bothered by the lack of joke-telling skills on Harriet's part. It's different skill sets, that's all, a different part of the brain for a different style of humour. I believed it.
And oh my god, could I be grooving on Lucy any more? My early fears of her being expensive window dressing have happily proved to be for naught. As she now comprises a quarter of the show's writing staff, hopefully her role will only increase.
I have to disagree on the notion of Sorkin giving short thrift to female characters on his shows. Dana Whittaker? Abby Bartlett? And above all the glory that was Claudia Jean Cregg? And supporting characters like Ainsley Hayes and Donna Moss, hell even Zoe Bartlett...naw, he spreads the wealth.
Max "...and Natalie Hurley, and Margaret Hooper, and..." Renn
-------------------- Sister Ann: DRIVE! DRIVE Crow T. Robot: Look, I'm already driving, there's no inherent quantity of driving that I can increase! If you want me to go faster, you should say so. Posts: 579 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Earlier in the thread I believe some were noting the lack of funny sketches being shown...well, I need to say that last night's "Santa / Dateline-To Catch A Predator" sketch had me laughing out loud. I actually wouldn't mind if we never actually saw sketches being performed...but that one was authentically funny.
-------------------- "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Max_Renn: I'm not bothered by the lack of joke-telling skills on Harriet's part. It's different skill sets, that's all, a different part of the brain for a different style of humour. I believed it.
See, I gotta disagree. I'd agree with you if she were attempting to write a joke, which is a different skill set entirely from telling one, but as a sketch comedy actor she must possess certain skills and talents. That would include memorization and a sense of timing. Without that she could not be a successful comedic actor. So how is it she cannot tell a simple joke correctly, after it was explained to her multiple times? Unless, of course, we assume that Harriet can't memorize anything at all and is completely dependent upon cue cards.
If she had attempted to write her own joke, I'd agree that it would involve a different skill set.
Bah. It bugs me.
Mack da "did ya hear the one about the unfunny comedic actress?" Knife
quote:Originally posted by Macheath: See, I gotta disagree. I'd agree with you if she were attempting to write a joke, which is a different skill set entirely from telling one, but as a sketch comedy actor she must possess certain skills and talents. That would include memorization and a sense of timing. Without that she could not be a successful comedic actor. So how is it she cannot tell a simple joke correctly, after it was explained to her multiple times? Unless, of course, we assume that Harriet can't memorize anything at all and is completely dependent upon cue cards.
I agree, particularly because of her role as the news co-anchor. I could almost understand it being outside of her range if she were strictly a comedic actress, but in the case of the news, she is telling jokes that require a lengthy setup and quality timing in order to deliver the punchline effectively.
Posts: 345 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Methuselah: Earlier in the thread I believe some were noting the lack of funny sketches being shown...well, I need to say that last night's "Santa / Dateline-To Catch A Predator" sketch had me laughing out loud. I actually wouldn't mind if we never actually saw sketches being performed...but that one was authentically funny.
That sketch, along with the Jeff Goldblum one from last week, has made enormous strides in terms of the realism of the show. One of the biggest complaints about it up to this point has been that for a program about the revival of a late-night sketch show, the sketches have been horribly unfunny. Now that they're actually showing parts of funny sketches without doing the cop-out "Oh trust us it's funny and edgy" like with Crazy Christians, it keeps perspective on what they're actually doing all day.
Posts: 345 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Methuselah: Earlier in the thread I believe some were noting the lack of funny sketches being shown...well, I need to say that last night's "Santa / Dateline-To Catch A Predator" sketch had me laughing out loud. I actually wouldn't mind if we never actually saw sketches being performed...but that one was authentically funny.
As one of the people who made that criticism, I agree. The Dateline sketch was a genuinely funny idea, and it was executed well enough (considering its in the background it doesn't need to be fully fleshed out, just plausible). One or two of the other recent ones have been decent too. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't a valid criticism of the early part of the season.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I just can't let it go: As a native Californian, I have to point out that a 4.1 earthquake would not destroy buildings, unless perhaps they were mud huts. A 4.1 earthquake usually makes a person stop and say, "was that a little tremor, or did a semi truck just drive by?" Maybe I heard wrong, but unless they said 6.1 or higher, there is no way that kind of damage happened.
Dateline: Santa was very funny! I'm very interested to see where the Jordan & Danny storyline goes.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I thought the same thing about the 4.1 earthquake. According to most descriptions of the Richter scale I've read, anything from 3.5 to 5.4 or so can be felt by humans, but rarely does any damage at all. Anything lower than 3.5 isn't generally felt by people at all.
quote:Originally posted by Starla: I just can't let it go: As a native Californian, I have to point out that a 4.1 earthquake would not destroy buildings, unless perhaps they were mud huts.
I think they stated on the show that their storage units were mud huts (metaphorically speaking). And they characters were surprised to hear that an earthquake took place because they didn't feel anything. I find the situation plausible.
-------------------- "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
But a section of the 10 freeway in Fontana also was supposed to have collapesed. Sure we had a collapse with the Northridge quake, but that was a 6.7. I could buy the buildings collapsing, but definately not the freeway collapse. But I suspend my disbelief for 120 minutes every Monday (I watch Heroes first).
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
posted
But Heroes is based on suspension of disbelief, and Studio 60 is supposed to be edgy and real. It's pretty obvious Sorkin isn't from L.A. Has he ever lived there?
I forgot about the freeway collapse. Absolutely ridiculous. If all that had happened, you can bet every cast member would have heard about it.
Methuselah- A 4.1 earthquake won't even rattle items off shelves. Well, maybe one or two items. It is highly unlikely it would destroy a storage building, even an old storage building.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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Rhiandmoi
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posted
But since I am already into the mode of the TV Universe doesn't have the same laws of physics that we have, I just continue on.
It would have been a lot more plausible if the earthquake was a 5 something, centered directly under Fontana, and everyone on the staff lives either along the coast or in the San Fernando Valley because even though that's a bigger earthquake (and could possibly cause that kind of damage) it is still small enough that it probably wouldn't be strongly felt that far away. I mean people would feel it, but it would be easy to disregard it. But on the other hand, I don't think that they have established how long anyone on the cast has been an Angeleno, because newbies I think feel the little ones more than old timers because they aren't used to the idea of the earth wiggling.
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
quote:Originally posted by Starla: But Heroes is based on suspension of disbelief, and Studio 60 is supposed to be edgy and real. It's pretty obvious Sorkin isn't from L.A. Has he ever lived there?
I forgot about the freeway collapse. Absolutely ridiculous. If all that had happened, you can bet every cast member would have heard about it.
Methuselah- A 4.1 earthquake won't even rattle items off shelves. Well, maybe one or two items. It is highly unlikely it would destroy a storage building, even an old storage building.
A group of twenty-somethings usually can't afford 2000+ square foot, 2 bedroom apartments on New York's upper west side.
Bostonians typically can't spend all-day, everyday sitting in a bar.
Hospital staff usually face serious discipline for engaging in sexual relationships with other staff members on hospital property.
Lawyers don't typically get a lot of clients by shouting their own name in court: "Denny Crane!"
All shows require some disbelief. Studio 60 setup the scenario to be one that is not typical. The characters reacted appropriately with surprise that 1) there was an earthquake, and 2) that it caused damage to their storage building. Yes, it doesn't normally happen that way. the show recognized that and stated that this is not a normal occurrance, but it happened and we must now deal with it.
-------------------- "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005
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quote:It's pretty obvious Sorkin isn't from L.A. Has he ever lived there?
I'm not sure I have a cite for this, but yes, he does live in L.A. How could he still work on weekly network shows if he didn't? I think he might mention his home in the introduction to one of the published West Wing script books.
Posts: 940 | From: California | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I'm sorry, I have become in this thread the kind of person I hate in real life. It really bugs me when people nitpick a show, but I guess I understand it now. Usually I just let little discrepancies go, but the 4.1 earthquake just ripped me right out of the Studio 60 world; it was jarring. I apologize for not letting it go here.
I looked it up, and while Sorkin was born in New York City and attended college on the East Coast, he is currently a resident of L.A. It is possible to work on a weekly network show and live elsewhere (some shows film in N.Y. Some people maintain their original homes and commute, even cross-country), but it isn't easy.
-------------------- This used to be the life, but I don't need another one. MyBandwagon Posts: 3254 | From: small town Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I've been a fan of the show from the pilot, and haven't taken too seriously any of the criticisms that have previously been hurled. Having said that, is it me or are they starting to dumb-down the show to make it more accessible to the average (as in, the average IQ is average) viewer?
Sorry, but the idea of someone as bright and sharp as Jordan having to ask "what's an RPG?" stretches my credulity to the breaking point. There was another one like that on the same episode, although I now can't remember what it was.
One of the things I've always adored about Sorkin's shows is that they've never condescended to the audience. And of course, one of the things that his fans consistently say is how nice it is that there's one writer out there who treats us as if we are intelligent.
I just don't believe in this day and age that there's a man, woman, or child out there who doesn't know what an RPG is. Although somebody with an influence on the show clearly didn't know and thought it needed to be explained. Yeesh.
Ali "and I adore seeing Mark McKinney again" Baba
Posts: 3068 | From: Kensington, MD | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by AliBaba: I've been a fan of the show from the pilot, and haven't taken too seriously any of the criticisms that have previously been hurled. Having said that, is it me or are they starting to dumb-down the show to make it more accessible to the average (as in, the average IQ is average) viewer?
Sorry, but the idea of someone as bright and sharp as Jordan having to ask "what's an RPG?" stretches my credulity to the breaking point. There was another one like that on the same episode, although I now can't remember what it was.
One of the things I've always adored about Sorkin's shows is that they've never condescended to the audience. And of course, one of the things that his fans consistently say is how nice it is that there's one writer out there who treats us as if we are intelligent.
I just don't believe in this day and age that there's a man, woman, or child out there who doesn't know what an RPG is. Although somebody with an influence on the show clearly didn't know and thought it needed to be explained. Yeesh.
Ali "and I adore seeing Mark McKinney again" Baba
That hadn't struck me upon watching the episode, but now that you point it out, I agree. There were a few moments of clunky exposition on The West Wing as well, such as when C.J. needed the census explained to her. Not that I personally had a clue about the inner workings of the census, but one figures that supersmart White House staffers would have a line on it.
Even worse was the ep. in the first season where the staff went to Hollywood and C.J. didn't seem to know what a development deal was, yet in the 2nd season premiere, it's revealed that she'd previously worked in publicity in Hollywood, and there's no way she wouldn't have known the term.
Max "So what does it mean when you say you 'write the show'?" Renn
-------------------- Sister Ann: DRIVE! DRIVE Crow T. Robot: Look, I'm already driving, there's no inherent quantity of driving that I can increase! If you want me to go faster, you should say so. Posts: 579 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2006
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