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Author Topic: No saluting zones.
skeptic
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I saw a recent documentary on the Allied campaign in southern France in World War 2. It explained that the men were given time off to enjoy the beaches of Nice and Cannes. But there was a large sign erected that stated that saluting was not required in those areas. Was it standard practice not to require saluting for soldiers on leave, or was it a special treat.

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MaxGunnar
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There is a whole section in military training manuals (US) covering when and how to salute and when not to and each service has its own traditions. For example, sailors while topside in port not engaged in a working party are required to salute all officers, when at sea it is no longer required. Sailors and Marines do not salute each other uncovered(without a hat on). Saluting is usualy suspended during recreational activities.
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MaxGunnar
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by the by, your mother named you well [Big Grin]
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Lil' Molly
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Saluting is also prohibited in certain zones in times of war so snipers cannot spot officers as easily.

ETA: And I'm fairly certain one is not required to salute when either party is not in uniform, even if you know the other person is above you in rank. I can't imagine they'd be wearing their uniforms on the beach, so maybe this is part of it? Soldiers are free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Also, keep in mind that there was a war going on... It makes no sense to help the enemy by pointing out your officers. [Eek!]

When on the DMZ in Korea, when new officers would come up to Guard Posts Collier and Oullette, the front two guard posts on the DMZ, they would sometimes demand salutes.

We would salute smartly, and rather than give the salutation of the day (Good morning, Sir), we would say, "Sniper Check, Sir!"

Then we would guide the confused officer up to the main look-out post, hand them binoculars and point in the direction of the nearest North Korean guard post.

Those wacky North Koreans were always so nice!!

Every time I saw it happen (once _I_ was the saluter), the North Korean guards... with sniper rifles... would be looking right at us with binoculars... and would snap off a sharp salute.

Then the North Korean soldier - and the American enlisted soldier would laugh their asses off as all the color drained out of the US Officer's face and they ran to get some cover.

Lemme tell you, it ain't pretty to see a Black Officer with no color in his face... [lol]

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MaxGunnar
Deck the Malls


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Hi Molly, USN requires that if an junior rank in uniform recognizes senior who happens to be civilian attire he rates a salute
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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Smartly executed waffles.

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Lil Molly;

Regarding the no saluting out of uniform, with the Department of the Navy, that is correct. (Nor, as previously mentioned, do we salute uncovered or during working parties, and--in some circumstances--during those rare recreational activities in which we are still in uniform and covered.) However, even when not saluting, it is still strongly encouraged to render the appropriate greeting of the day when encountering a senior servicemember at all times, regardless of the social circumstance.

However, the Army and the Air Force have a very different set of rules. While I am certainly no expert, I thought I recalled hearing somewhere that soldiers in civvies, if they recognize an officer, are still required to salute. Can any doggies here set me straight on that?

As for the field... common sense would dictate no saluting in the field, and the Corps--and usually the Army--follow that logic. I say "usually" because when we originally relieved the 3rd ACR at Al Asad back in 04, they were requiring salutes on base. Granted, Al Asad is an exceptionally low risk area, but STILL... it didn't feel right. As soon as they left, we did away with that silliness.

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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The Rubber Chicken
The First USA Noel


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The Army rule on saluting out of uniform changed in 2004. Prior to 2004, if you recognized an officer out of uniform, you were supposed to salute him. The 2004 revision of the AR 600-25 says that if either person is in civilian clothes, a salute is not required.

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AliBaba
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Additionally, the entire Pentagon is a no hat, no salute zone, which only makes sense. With the number of officers bouncing around that place, every one of lower rank would be saluting so much they'd never be able to put their arms down. Perhaps one of the military types here could tell me if this is common practice on other large military installations, or if the Pentagon is unique in that aspect?

Ali "salute-tion" Baba

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Ganzfeld
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quote:
Originally posted by AliBaba:
Additionally, the entire Pentagon is a no hat, no salute zone, which only makes sense.

Do they have a sign out front or is it just understood?
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pirviii
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Inside the tunnel to Cheyenne Mountain is a no hat no salute area, and there is a sign saying that.

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Matt H.
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by DesertRat:
As for the field... common sense would dictate no saluting in the field, and the Corps--and usually the Army--follow that logic. I say "usually" because when we originally relieved the 3rd ACR at Al Asad back in 04, they were requiring salutes on base. Granted, Al Asad is an exceptionally low risk area, but STILL... it didn't feel right. As soon as they left, we did away with that silliness.

MNC-I policy is that there are no "no-salute" areas inside the wire. I don't agree with that, but that's the way it is. We've ignored that policy for the HQ areas. So both you guys and us basically broke Corps directives in doing that.

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CannonFodder Global Trotter
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Myself and one of my soldiers got busted for not saluting a Major [Embarrassed] outside a chow hall here at LSAA. But his uniform was impeccably neat, and his skin was pasty. I was suprised he had the gall to berate two sweat soaked sunburned soldiers for their failure in rendering proper military courtesy.

P.S. Going down from heat exhaustion really sucks. Going down from overhydration (10 liters of water in eight hours) sucks even more. I just can't win!

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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Matt;

It wasn't our policy, it was the 3rd ACR's. As soon as they left, we did away with that bullshit.

(And not to be nitpicky, but this was Feb of 04... there was no MNC-I yet, it was still CJTF-7.)

CF;

What a dumbass pogue. (And that's coming from a another pogue.) They always say the two dumbest ranks in the officer corps wear gold...

As for the overhydration, dude, be careful. A kid in my OCS platoon went down hard from that, and last I heard had never come out of his coma. You've got to be careful not to flush the sodium out of your system by drinking too much.

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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CannonFodder Global Trotter
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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DR, hydration is a tough act to balance. Now that I'm a 'prior heat casualty' I'm pretty much constantly monitored by everyone on both sides of my chain of command. I got sent to the combat surgical hospital today for a full work up (good news, I don't have diabetes or prostate problems), I just sweat...alot. During the day on our ECP temps get to around 140 degrees. We have to wear ALL of protective gear (IBA, side plates, shoulder protectors, helmets, and gloves) and this just doesn't allow the body to cool down. Sweat is literally running off our uniforms by the end of an eight hour shift. Balancing how much water vs. how much gatorade is tough. The chow is tasty and good quality, but usually kind of greasy and heavy and leads to indigestion in the hot weather, plus your belly is constantly full of water.

Working a static checkpoint is f**king difficult enough, how do Soldiers and Marines fight in all this gear in this kind of weather? Are we going to have to wait until our first serious heat casualty (probably me) until our commanders re-examine their policies and priorities (air conditioning in the command shacks would be nice, not having to wear those stupid shoulder protectors would also help)? It's bad enough we're not allowed to fight, but now we're going to become casualties without any contact at all with any enemy?

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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."

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laiskuri
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Whe I was in Marine basic training we were taught to salute the moving cars of officers if they came toward us as we were walking. Officers' cars had different parking decals from those of enlisted men, and the decal was very easy to recognize on the front bumper.

Did it matter if the driver of the car was not in uniform? Nope: we were told to salute the decal, not the driver. If the car was being driven by an officer's wife or grandmother or teen-age daughter, we were required to salute it.

This was back in the "Old Corps", and I don't know if this is still done.

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Delta-V
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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
We would salute smartly, and rather than give the salutation of the day (Good morning, Sir), we would say, "Sniper Check, Sir!"

Normally, under tactical conditions, the Army doesn't salute. My platoon sergeant thought it was hilarious to come up to officers in the field and salute (not as bad when the enemy just has MILES instead of real bullets, tho). The one and only time he tried it on me, I realized what he was about to do, snapped to attention and delivered HIM a smart salute. I've never seen anyone not under fire hit the ground so fast! [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by DesertRat:
What a dumbass pogue. (And that's coming from a another pogue.) They always say the two dumbest ranks in the officer corps wear gold...

There's an NFBSK joke about why majors and LTC's wear oak leaves...

quote:
Originally posted by laiskuri:
Whe I was in Marine basic training we were taught to salute the moving cars of officers if they came toward us as we were walking. Officers' cars had different parking decals from those of enlisted men, and the decal was very easy to recognize on the front bumper.

IIRC, it the Army it was only O-6's and above that were issued stickers for their car and required a salute.

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"My neighbor asked why anyone would need a car that can go 190 mph. If the answer isn't obvious, and explaination won't help." - Csabe Csere

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NovaSS
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Old Navy saying...
If it moves salute it, if it doesnt paint it.

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NovaSS
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Old Navy saying...
If it moves salute it, if it doesnt paint it.

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TrekkerScout
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by NovaSS:
Old Navy saying...
If it moves salute it, if it doesnt paint it.

I always remember it as being: "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, move it. If it can't be moved, paint it."

Trekker "saluted, moved and painted for six years" Scout

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schumichick
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I worked at the U.S. Military Academy for a number of years.

The officers would actively avoid going outside during change of classes & meal formations (the Corps of Cadets is approximately 4000).

At times, I would be in the company of an officer walking through the Central Post Area during change of class & it was nothing but returning salutes & greetings ... no point in trying to have a conversation, though I too was greeted by most the cadets I passed -- 'Mornin' ma'am' -- at least my arm didn't get tired.

It was amusing ...

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DaGuyWitBluGlasses
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The rule i was given:

Only salute in uniform.
Out of uniform come to attention.

Also when someone calls you out by name, if their is an officer present (including the NCO's that have 'officer' in their rank), you respond with "sir" as you salute even if it is only a sergeant that called you out.

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GenYus
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Sort of on this topic. What do you do if a senior officer doesn't salute back? Do you hold the salute until they pass? Also, what do you do if you are carrying something? Does that fall under the "no saluting if you are a work party" rule?

This past May, I was watching a Navy band setup for a performance. It was kind of odd to watch a musician salute his conductor.

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Sort of on this topic. What do you do if a senior officer doesn't salute back? Do you hold the salute until they pass? Also, what do you do if you are carrying something? Does that fall under the "no saluting if you are a work party" rule?

This past May, I was watching a Navy band setup for a performance. It was kind of odd to watch a musician salute his conductor.

According to my father's "bluejacket's manual", you do not need to salute if your hands are occupied (say, by carring something or securing a line)

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Eddylizard
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I heard once that there was no saluting on submarines, due to space limitations. Can anyone who knows about military procedure confirm or deny this?

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TrekkerScout
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
I heard once that there was no saluting on submarines, due to space limitations. Can anyone who knows about military procedure confirm or deny this?

In the US Navy, there is no saluting while indoors. Since there are very few sailors who take strolls on the deck of a submarine while out to sea, there is generally no saluting while on board a sub.

Trekker "been there, done that" Scout

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Majorsam
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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>>Sort of on this topic. What do you do if a senior officer doesn't salute back? Do you hold the salute until they pass?<<

I was taught walk past the officer six paces then drop the salute. Can't find it in any regulation I have in hand.

Officers in privately-owned vehicles will not be saluted except by gate guards. As a practical matter the only vehicle I've ever seen that might get saluted is a flag officer's vehicle bearing General insignia on the plates.

I've had some wags salute me in the field & use the old "sniper check" routine from time to time. Pretty dated considering I used it as a private 20+ years ago [Smile] My method is to let them hold the salute until I can can move to where they are between me and the "front line" and then return it. Better hope the sniper is a better soldier than you, sergeant. [Wink]

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RangerDog
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In basic training I was taught that while not required, if you happened upon an officer in your chain of command while down town, you should probably salute them.

On base, when a staff car bearing a GO standard passes the ranking member of the detail is required to call the detail to attention and then present the salute to the passing vehicle. As a young buck-sargeant I once missed the four star's sedan driving past while leading a very heavy detail.
My CO: "What in the world could you have been doing not to have saluted the General's car?"
Me: "Humping ammo, sir."
My CO: (With a wry smile)"Get the hell out of here!"

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Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish

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RangerDog
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Also, if you have End-Of-Runway duty, you should not be bare-chested and laying on the bed of the truck tanning when Air Force One lands. Ever.

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Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by RangerDog:

Me: "Humping ammo, sir."

Pervert. [Razz]

[lol]

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CannonFodder Global Trotter
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by RangerDog:
Also, if you have End-Of-Runway duty, you should not be bare-chested and laying on the bed of the truck tanning when Air Force One lands. Ever.

That's GOT to be a good story!

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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."

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AliBaba
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Additionally, the entire Pentagon is a no hat, no salute zone, which only makes sense.
--------------------------------------------------
Do they have a sign out front or is it just understood?

I don't remember ever seeing any signs posted about it, I think it was just something that was understood. Could be there was some kind of sign that I just never noticed. Being a civilian, I never gave it much thought.

Ali "hat in hand" Baba

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pinqy
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To clarify, it's really only the quad inside the Pentagon that's no hat no salute. The area by the metro entrance is covered, and cover makes it no hat no salute same as indoors (though Air Force and Marines still salute sometimes). The rest of the area outside the Pentagon is all hats and salutes.

I don't recall a sign for the quad, though there might be some.

pinqy

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bufungla
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quote:
Originally posted by Delta-V:
quote:
Originally posted by laiskuri:
Whe I was in Marine basic training we were taught to salute the moving cars of officers if they came toward us as we were walking. Officers' cars had different parking decals from those of enlisted men, and the decal was very easy to recognize on the front bumper.

IIRC, it the Army it was only O-6's and above that were issued stickers for their car and required a salute.
The car stickers I've seen for the Army, Navy and Air Force all consisted of a DoD sticker, along with a strip with the name of the military installation; blue for officers and green for enlisted.

quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
To clarify, it's really only the quad inside the Pentagon that's no hat no salute. The area by the metro entrance is covered, and cover makes it no hat no salute same as indoors (though Air Force and Marines still salute sometimes). The rest of the area outside the Pentagon is all hats and salutes.

I don't recall a sign for the quad, though there might be some.

pinqy

I never saw or heard of a sign for the quad either. I was told about the no hat/salute zone during in-processing.

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"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra

Posts: 4847 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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