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Author Topic: Paranormal Experiments with L-Shaped Rods
Thomas Newton
Tic Tac Dough


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I am interested in continuing my experiments with L-Shaped Rods that I had started 40 years ago.

The rods are made of # 6 copper wire. The handle is 4 inches and the long part is 8 inches. You hold the rods loosely in your hands pointing straight forward parallel to the ground and walk forward. They will cross toward each other when the back of your heels are over the cable.

I am an engineer, so I didn't believe in them until a friend said, "If you don't believe me, try them for yourself." I did and they worked.

I was looking for underground cables, so I would not destroy them when I installed anchors for telephone down guys.

I ran experiments for about a year. I will explain the results later as I have more time.

I would like to see results from others to confirm my findings.

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Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

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RangerDog
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I have also experimented with what are called divining rods. Skeptical as I am, I was flabbergasted to se that they work.

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Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish

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Thomas Newton
Tic Tac Dough


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RangerDog,

How about some specifics.

I was convinced that they worked so I experimented as to what they would find. I walked across a path with the L-Shaped rods to be sure that there was nothing there. Then I placed my car keys on the ground and the L-Shaped rods crossed when I got to them. I then started to reduce the size of the object to see if the power of the crossing was decreased or weak. The size made no difference in the power of the crossing, that is I used a pin (so small that I could not see it from 2 feet away).

More results later.

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Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

Posts: 84 | From: Winter Springs, FL | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
mags
Jingle Bell Hock


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Thomas Newton, I'd be interested to see your experiment repeated with someone else placing the pin so that you don't know where it is prior to the test.
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lynnejanet
Happy Holly Days


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My husband claims some success with diving rods too - for underground wires, and for dead bodies. I have no reason to doubt him (he's not a fanciful guy) but I've not seen it myself.

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lynne"insert appropriate punny phrase here"janet

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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An original artical from Private Eye In July issue 1163
quote:
This year’s drought has brought the threat of serious water shortages on the island of Jersey much closer.
In response to the crisis, Jersey’s environment minister, Senator Freddie Cohen, has drafted legislation to restrict the extraction of groundwater and introduce metering of domestic supplies. Alas Senator Cohen’s law has been vetoed by his colleagues in the States (parliament) because they have chosen to believe the word of a water diviner rather than that of geologists.

In the 1980s the States commissioned the British Geological Survey [BGS], at a cost of tens of thousands of pounds, to carry out an exhaustive study of the island’s water resources. Much of the island’s groundwater, it found, is polluted with nitrates and pesticides. The local geology (predominantly granite and shale) means that water is very scarce more than a few meters below the surface. Alarm was calmed, however, by local diviner George Langlois. Armed only with a forked twig, he proclaimed that Jersey did not have a water crisis at all. The island’s water, he insisted, originates from France. It is, er, pulled by the moons gravity via wide streams which run beneath the English Channel.

To use the technical argot, that is what geologists call “complete and utter bollocks.” However, senators chose to believe the soothing assurances of the man with the twitching stick – and they did nothing.

Meanwhile groundwater levels continued to fall. In some low-lying areas it is tainted by seawater, a sure sign of over-extraction. This year’s drought concentrated a few minds and led to Senator Cohen’ proposed water restrictions.

Re-enter Langlois who, fresh from announcing the presence of large oil reserves under the island – another geological impossibility – again assured the States that Jersey’s water supplies were inexhaustible. It takes just a day for water to travel from France to Jersey, he said. The BGS on the other hand estimates that the water currently being consumed with merry abandon arrived in the form of rainfall 57,000 years ago. So many States members believe the water diviner’s mumbo-jumbo, that Senator Cohen has had to withdraw his law. To break the impasse he has proposed setting up a test at the taxpayer’s expense. Langlois will use his divining “powers” to pinpoint the location of two of the “underground streams from France.” The States will then spend thousands of pounds sinking two boreholes. Any water found will be chemically tested to see whether it originates from France or from Jersey.

Senator Cohen hopes the results will finally convince his colleagues of the need for water conservation. Alas, while there may not be much water on Jersey, the wells of ignorance are very deep.

The follow up article appeared in Private Eye No. 1172, 24 Nov-7 Dec 2006.
quote:
BAD NEWS for water diviners. In July Eye 1163 told how the States
(Parliament) of Jersey had postponed enacting water conservation
measures because a water diviner had claimed the island had
unlimited supplies of underground fresh water, flowing beneath
the sea from France. The States commissioned geologists to dig
boreholes at two locations specified by the diviner to test the claims,
at a cost of 70,000 UKP. Now the results are in and -surprise, surprise -
there are no underground streams. The small amount of water extracted
was chemically tested and found to be identical with other sources on
Jersey - i.e. it had fallen as rainwater on the island and was not mystically
transported there from France, Narnia, or anywhere else. Just fancy that.



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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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Brad from Georgia
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The James Randi Educational Foundation offers a $1,000,000 prize for anyone who can demonstrate such powers as dowsing under scientifically controlled test conditions. The applicant must specify what he/she can do, propose a test protocol, and work out an agreement to be tested. (An example of a dowser who was tested: He said he could find gold in 7 out of 10 tries, and agreed to make three trial runs of ten each.)

So far, no one has succeeded, though.

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"No hard feelin's and HOPpy New Year!"--Walt Kelly
Hear what you're missing: ARTC podcasts! http://artcpodcast.org/

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Thomas Newton
Tic Tac Dough


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I tried a nickel (non-magnetic) and the rods did not react, so I thought it had something to do with magnetism. I made a list of all the known forces in the world and tried to see which force was making the rods cross.

more later

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Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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For thousands of years nobody has managed to prove it works, I don't think you are going to I'm afraid.

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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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snoozn
Deck the Malls


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I think it's just a physical manifestation of a person's experience/intelligence/intuition. For example, I'm sure people experienced in digging around cables have some sense of where they are likely to be. They may think the rods are working on their own, but really they are responding to unconscious actions of the dowser. That's why a dowser may have a great track record out in the field, but be unable to replicate it under a controlled experiment when the the dowsing material is buried randomly rather than where it "should" be.

snoozn

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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The only reason they think they have a good track record is the same reason cold reading is so sucessful. People remember the wins and forget the failures.

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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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Barns & No Bull
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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You wait until you have 80 posts to push this stuff on snopes?

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Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you!

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Thomas Newton
Tic Tac Dough


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quote:
Originally posted by mags:
Thomas Newton, I'd be interested to see your experiment repeated with someone else placing the pin so that you don't know where it is prior to the test.

That is a great idea. After a year of characterizing what the rods would do and not do, I decided to go to the library and see if there was anything written about the rods. I found a lot on dowsing and a little on the L-Shaped rods, but nothing definitive. I found a book on paranormal phenomena that showed a plum line (a thread with a small weight on the end about 6 inches long) that would turn clockwise if you held it over water. So I made one and held it over a dry area and no rotation. I moved it over a drop of water and it slowly started to rotate clockwise over the water after a few seconds. So then I thought that it should rotate counterclockwise over the water and repeated the experiment. It rotated counterclockwise after a few seconds! I remembered that I could show someone how the rods worked by tilting them downward to make them cross, and the fact that size didn‘t make a difference in the power of the effect. With these three facts, I thought that I was unconsciously causing the effect myself. So I set up the test you suggested. I thought that I found the pin, but now I can’t remember if I ran the test and it was successful or I just planned the test and didn’t get a chance to test it as I had to move from central Texas to Florida, and in Florida no matter which direction or place I chose the rods crossed every few feet so I could not find an empty area to run tests, and I could no longer experiment. And I became very very busy. One thing is true, either the L-Shaped rods work or I can produce the effect without being conscience that I am doing the effect myself. Either way it is phenomenal.

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Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

Posts: 84 | From: Winter Springs, FL | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Barns & No Bull
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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If you switch to brass L-rods you might find grandpa...

With practice, anyone can dowse. All you need is an open mind~the possibilities are endless and the more confidence that you have in them, the more successful you will be at using them!

They're able to locate:
Water
Drain lines
Lost items
Lost people, spirits
Find directions, N,S,E or W
Gold, silver and other minerals


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Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you!

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SiKboy
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Newton:
I tried a nickel (non-magnetic) and the rods did not react, so I thought it had something to do with magnetism. I made a list of all the known forces in the world and tried to see which force was making the rods cross.

more later

Did you include the ideomotor effect on your list of forces?

http://skepdic.com/ideomotor.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ideomotor.html

Because I'm fairly sure thats why the rods are crossing.

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This Space For Rent.

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Thomas Newton
Tic Tac Dough


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SiKboy,

The ideomotor may be what is happening, but I will have to run the double blind tests to be sure.

If ideomotor is what is happening, then the L-Shaped rods could find anything, as long as the person believed they would work.

Thanks for the help.

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Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Newton:

If ideomotor is what is happening, then the L-Shaped rods could find anything

Thanks for the help.

Err no, it means the rods can find nothing and it's only you persuading yourself that they are.

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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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Brad from Georgia
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Since you're in Florida, where the James Randi Educational Foundation is located, if you can pass a double-blind test, by all means apply for the JREF million-dollar prize. All it would cost you would be a drive to their headquarters.

And please tell them that I recommended you try. If you win the million-dollar prize, I'd get a fifty thousand dollar finder's fee.

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"No hard feelin's and HOPpy New Year!"--Walt Kelly
Hear what you're missing: ARTC podcasts! http://artcpodcast.org/

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Izunya
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
If ideomotor is what is happening, then the L-Shaped rods could find anything, as long as the person believed they would work.[/QB]
Well, no. It means that the L-shaped rods could find anything that the person using them knows how to find, which is a little bit different.

Izunya

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Andrew of Ware, England
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As a good Fortean and snopester I have always had an open-minded sceptisism on dowsing. One day I was in the shop at a National Trust stately home (I can't remember which one). They had some metal dowsing rods for sale. There were a pair to try - with the notice saying that there was a water pipe running beneath the shop.

As there was no-one else in the shop I tried them. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Wallop! The wires crossed.

I walked on.

Nothing.

I went round a display and the wires crossed again. Having walked round the shop I noted where the wires crossed and they formed a straight line. A quick word with the shopkeeper confirmed that this was indeed where the water pipe was.

Now I am not claiming I can dowse, but on this occasion the rods worked for me. I can explain it away as - perhaps - a physical reaction to the water which the rods exaggerated.

To counter this I have seen experiments on television - for example on the archaeology programme 'Time Team' - where dowsing did not work. On this occasion they were looking for a lost 'fogue' (stone age underground chamber with passageways) in Cornwall. A dowser failed to pick up buried electricity cables in the garden as well as the passageways and chamber.

A modern detector found the electricity cables. Archaeology found the fogue and passageways. Yes!

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Andrew, Ware, England

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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In that story you also have to take into account that you asked the person who was trying to sell the dowsing rods for confirmation on their success.
It's kind of an emperors new clothes situation.

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All the world's a face, And all the men and women merely acne.

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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Especially as any given two points will form a straight line.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by lazerus the duck:
In that story you also have to take into account that you asked the person who was trying to sell the dowsing rods for confirmation on their success.
It's kind of an emperors new clothes situation.

What would have been an interesting experiment in my mind would be to send a number of people in to "test" the rods and get them to purposefully cross twice at different locations and see what response was given each time.

If they were all told "Yes, that's exactly where the water pipe is!" then you know you've got a charlatan. If many are told "No, that's not it" then I'd give some credit.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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