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Author Topic: Explosives implicated in WTC attack
Hans Off
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Chow me if you have seen this before..

I stumbled upon it whilst browsing Yahoo Answers...

Prof claims something fishy about collapse of WTC

I've not had a chance to read it yet, but the fist two paragraphs seem so wildly implausable that I am not sure If I can be bothered to finish it!

Especially when he comes out with garbage like...

quote:
The goal is to promote further scrutiny of the official government-sponsored reports as well as serious investigation of the controlled-demolition hypothesis. (No rebuttal of my argument can be complete, of course, unless it addresses all of these points.)


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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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ER...?

I haven't read it all completely either, so feel free to snark me, but some of the implications seem to be:

The beams of the WTC 7 were packed with thermite, so that a controlled demolition could be initiated whenever the owners desired.

The building was deliberately demolished by igniting said charges under cover of the attacks on the main WTC buildings. Sorry for my ignorance but I am assuming that WTC 7 was a seperate building from the two main WTC towers that were attacked.

It begs the question WHY!? Was WTC 7 losing money, did the greedy owners sieze a chance to cash in on the insurance?

Are high-rise bulidings routinely packed with thermite charges to enable a controlled demolition?

I don't know the answer, but I'm guessing NO and NO.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I wonder if he thinks the Hartford Civic Center was "pulled", too.

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All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

Turing test failures: 6

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snopes
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More proof that you can have a physics degree or a bunch of letters after your name and still be a complete kook.

- snopes

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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More proof that any kook can build a website. Coming soon, my adventures with AL, the alien that abducted me and taught me the cure for cancer. Site under construction, link will be posted soon.

The problem is that the site in the OP is dressed up in all sorts of pseudo-scientific proof. If you dis-engage your brain for a moment, it's actually kind of plausible.

In other news:

Elvis is dead.

Marylin Monroe died of an accidental drugs overdose.

JFK was shot by that guy in the book deposatory.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Ana Ng
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Do I get my Snopes Charter Membership revoked if I admit that I fall into the "let it happen on purpose" (LHoP) 9/11 camp? I think that there was foreknowledge and it was deliberately ignored.

That feels better. :deepbreath:

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Ana Ng

By "let it happen" do you mean that it was ignored as is alleged in the Nazi bombing of Coventry, in which it is said that we allowed German Bombers to use their new technology to destroy the city, rather than thwart it, so as not to reveal that we had cracked one of their secrets, or do you mean that the US and it's allies were itching for an excuse to attack Afghanistan thus allowing the attacks on 9/11 to proceed?

Edited for clarity

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Ana Ng
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Firstly, I have to clarify- I don't know if they did it "on purpose" per se, however, I think there's definitely a lot "up" with the sequence of events that day. I think that a lot of the official account just sounds fishy.

At the absolute least, I believe this government has been criminally negligent in the handling of this event. Why were they so opposed to an independent investigation? Why did Bush claim to see the first plane hit on live TV?

And then, of course, there's this...

I don't know, I just think something's up with that.

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Singing in the Drizzle
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I have several time a year tried to find a cite for the number of terrost threats the CIA recieves a day. I remember it was something like 3,000 before the war. To be conservitive lets us a 1,000 then muliply by the number of day in a year. Thats over a quarter million. Now how do you check everyone then out? Answer, you don't. You have to filter them out by some critera and hope you don't mis any thing. 9/11 was filtered out for some reason. Probably because we had a beliefe that a terrorist in the counter for a long time would give on their goal among other things.

Now about this prof. that claims there were explosives or some other nonsense. I personaly think he did do his research from what I have read. The problem is that is was done with lots of bias. I expected to see more explations on why thing could not have happen as FEMA said. He also use things that should not be compaired. Yes, a concreat building did fall over and the twin towers were made from concreat, but they were constructed very differently.

Just because this guy is a professor of physics does not mean he is a expert on buildings.

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medtchva
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Ana Ng:
Firstly, I have to clarify- I don't know if they did it "on purpose" per se, however, I think there's definitely a lot "up" with the sequence of events that day. I think that a lot of the official account just sounds fishy.

At the absolute least, I believe this government has been criminally negligent in the handling of this event. Why were they so opposed to an independent investigation? Why did Bush claim to see the first plane hit on live TV?

And then, of course, there's this...

I don't know, I just think something's up with that.

Ana Ng, I have to agree with you. Even before reading or viewing any of the numerous 9/11 coverup hoopla, I wondered how those two gigantic towers collapsed so quickly and so straight down. They do look like a demolition tape. Visit google video and look up loose change edition 2. Interesting theories. I'd welcome what other members think if they view it.
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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I don't get what is so puzzling about the collapse of the towers. I've seen numerous demonstrations, several by fire experts and engineers, and they all pretty much agree that the "pancaking" collapses were caused by the failure of the brackets that held each concrete floor to the outer structure of each tower. Those near the impact sites broke from the stress of the planes and the heat from the fires, then fell onto the floors below, breaking their brackets because they were not strong enough to hold the additional weight. Process continued all the way down, resulting in an implosion-like collapse. Perfectly logical to me.

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Jason Threadslayer
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quote:
Originally posted by Astra:
I don't get what is so puzzling about the collapse of the towers.

I think it's because people don't want to believe that 19 men working for an amateur army could bring down billion dollar buildings designed by the best & the brightest and do billions of dollars to the US economy with a cost of only 500 000 USD.

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Ana Ng:
Do I get my Snopes Charter Membership revoked if I admit that I fall into the "let it happen on purpose" (LHoP) 9/11 camp? I think that there was foreknowledge and it was deliberately ignored.

Personally, I put it into the Hurricane Katrina category: yes, they knew in advance that there was a threat...but this administration is so godawfully incompetent, they couldn't figure out what to do, and so they thrashed around, sending emails to each other, and "let things happen" out of sheer bureaucratic inertia.

Also remember: White House insiders and whistle-blowers have gone to the New York Times with tales of numerous far smaller administration crimes and sins. I can't believe that, out of the number of people who would have to have known about this, not one has come forward to spill the beans.

Silas

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Mad Jay
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quote:
Originally posted by medtchva:
quote:
Originally posted by Ana Ng:
Firstly, I have to clarify- I don't know if they did it "on purpose" per se, however, I think there's definitely a lot "up" with the sequence of events that day. I think that a lot of the official account just sounds fishy.

At the absolute least, I believe this government has been criminally negligent in the handling of this event. Why were they so opposed to an independent investigation? Why did Bush claim to see the first plane hit on live TV?

And then, of course, there's this...

I don't know, I just think something's up with that.

Ana Ng, I have to agree with you. Even before reading or viewing any of the numerous 9/11 coverup hoopla, I wondered how those two gigantic towers collapsed so quickly and so straight down. They do look like a demolition tape. Visit google video and look up loose change edition 2. Interesting theories. I'd welcome what other members think if they view it.
*sigh*
Despite studies and well-published findings, the crazy rumors and misinformation continues to spread.

The WTC collapsed because the fireproofing got dislodged by the impact of the planes. NIST conducted a study on it. Here's the statement given to the House of Representatives
quote:

The WTC towers likely would not have collapsed under the combined effects of aircraft
impact damage and the extensive, multi-floor fires that were encountered on September 11,
2001 if the thermal insulation had not been widely dislodged or had been only minimally
dislodged by aircraft impact.
• NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC
towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to
September 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit
the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly showed that the
collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the
initiating floors downward, until the dust clouds obscured the view.

Here's the actual report with detailed analysis and blow by blow account of what exactly went inside the towers

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In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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medtchva
Deck the Malls


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Mad Jay, thank you for the link. I looked at it and some other sites that examined the jet fuel fire and am now clearer on exactly what probably happened and why.

Just curious.. what do you think about this?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12192317&method=full&

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RangerDog
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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
quote:
Originally posted by Ana Ng:
Do I get my Snopes Charter Membership revoked if I admit that I fall into the "let it happen on purpose" (LHoP) 9/11 camp? I think that there was foreknowledge and it was deliberately ignored.

Personally, I put it into the Hurricane Katrina category: yes, they knew in advance that there was a threat...but this administration is so godawfully incompetent, they couldn't figure out what to do, and so they thrashed around, sending emails to each other, and "let things happen" out of sheer bureaucratic inertia.

Also remember: White House insiders and whistle-blowers have gone to the New York Times with tales of numerous far smaller administration crimes and sins. I can't believe that, out of the number of people who would have to have known about this, not one has come forward to spill the beans.
Silas

Wow I know you and others have taken delight in trying to discredit the Bush administration, but actually admitting that you truely believe that they (Bush himself?) knew in advance that the attacks were to happen? And that they didn't do anything? That's just not right, Silas (and Ana). I can't believe that you really think that's how it went down.

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Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish

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Mad Jay
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quote:
Originally posted by RangerDog:
quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
quote:
Originally posted by Ana Ng:
Do I get my Snopes Charter Membership revoked if I admit that I fall into the "let it happen on purpose" (LHoP) 9/11 camp? I think that there was foreknowledge and it was deliberately ignored.

Personally, I put it into the Hurricane Katrina category: yes, they knew in advance that there was a threat...but this administration is so godawfully incompetent, they couldn't figure out what to do, and so they thrashed around, sending emails to each other, and "let things happen" out of sheer bureaucratic inertia.

Also remember: White House insiders and whistle-blowers have gone to the New York Times with tales of numerous far smaller administration crimes and sins. I can't believe that, out of the number of people who would have to have known about this, not one has come forward to spill the beans.
Silas

Wow I know you and others have taken delight in trying to discredit the Bush administration, but actually admitting that you truely believe that they (Bush himself?) knew in advance that the attacks were to happen? And that they didn't do anything? That's just not right, Silas (and Ana). I can't believe that you really think that's how it went down.
RD,

I'm not saying that the Bush administraction knew what exactly was going to happen and the voluntarily ignored it, but the US goverment (this administration and previous administrations) did ignore many things. Hijacking planes is old hat to Al-Qaeda. The US goverment should have beefed up security at the airports long time ago. There are many things the goverment could have done that would have prevented the attacks. I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but US goverment has been wilfully ignoring terrorism throughout the world for decades. It is hard for me to imagine that the attacks would have been successful if we had been paying more attention.

--------------------
Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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RangerDog
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Jay, with that I do agree.

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Cobra4J
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This subject came up in anotehr thread-

and as I said there-

Al Quaida attempted to knock over the eiffel tower in a similar attack years before 9/11

no one in Al Quaida denies doing it-

Bin Laden himself commented he only expected the tops of the buildings to collapse.

But apparently when teaching in America, we should teach conspiracies, urban legends, theories, heresay and forget the facts.

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Ana Ng
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I'm sorry, Ranger Dog, in that I know this is a stressful time for our country, and the war, but I'm really only talking about a feeling (Source: My ass.)

According to Wikipedia, Bush initially claimed to see the first crash live on TV. Why? It sounds like when on L&O when someone covers for themselves. Maybe not totally guilty, but they're hiding something.

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Steve
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Ana Ng:
I'm sorry, Ranger Dog, in that I know this is a stressful time for our country, and the war, but I'm really only talking about a feeling (Source: My ass.)

According to Wikipedia, Bush initially claimed to see the first crash live on TV. Why? It sounds like when on L&O when someone covers for themselves. Maybe not totally guilty, but they're hiding something.

Well, bear in mind that Bush isn't exactly known for his ability with words. I don't think his "admission" means much other than the fact that he misspoke.

And if he really expected it, I think he would have come up with a better thing to do during the first few minutes of the attack than read a kid's book about a goat. His behavior that first day has received a good bit of criticism. I think he would have made sure it didn't.

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Ana Ng
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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CNN was running this story on the main page. I wonder if people are saying that the Senate upsets were followed by a "new threat." I wouldn't say that, but I can see it being bandied about.

quote:
The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a government agency, filed 10,000 pages of reports that found fires caused by the crashing planes were more than sufficient to collapse the buildings.

The scholars' group rejects those conclusions. Their Web site contends the government has been dishonest.

It adds: the "World Trade Center was almost certainly brought down by controlled demolitions" and "the government not only permitted 9/11 to occur but may even have orchestrated these events to facilitate its political agenda."
...
Daniel Orr, a Princeton Ph.D. and widely published retired economics chair at the University of Illinois, said he knew instantly from watching the towers fall that they had been blown apart by explosives. He was reminded of watching an old housing project being destroyed in St. Louis, Missouri.



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My great grandfather planted that tree!

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