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Squishy0405
Wii Wiish You A Merry Chriistmas


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Obviously there isn't a way to "prove" this but has anyone else been told this? My husband was told that if you are buried face down you go straight to hell. I even asked what if you die face down? He said NO- buried

ETA: I HATE when words look weird! I keep saying "berried" or is it "burried"(like hurry) AHHHH!!

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"Fate is like a strange, unpopular resturant, filled with odd waiters who bring you things you never ask for and don't always like."-Lemony Snicket

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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Why would this matter? Doesn't the soul leave at the moment of death? Why would it hang around and wait until your body has been buried?

What if they bury you face up and you go to heaven, then they exhume your body and bury you face-down? Are you evicted from heaven and then go to hell? Or if you are in hell from being buried face down, can they exhume you and bury you face up so you go to heaven?

What about cremation? Do you have to be cremated face up or go to hell?

What happens if your body isn't buried? If you drown in the ocean and your body settles face down, do you go to hell? What if you are buried sideways, do you go to Purgatory?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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jw
The First USA Noel


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This reminds me of a teaser I heard last week.
If I'm looking up at the sun and at the same time someone in Australia is looking up at the moon, who's looking up? and who's looking down? [Big Grin]

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On my old guitar sell tickets, so someone can finally pick it.

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The Vanilla Gorilla
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Isn't there some Vampire lore that a suspected vampire would be buried face down so that if they awoke that they would start digging downwards?
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Orac
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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/hijack This question reminds me of something odd I was told. Catholics (supposedly) believe that if your body is cremated you go to hell. That led me to ask what if you died in a fire and your body was cremated? /end hijack
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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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There are several ways to pursue this line of thought, first and foremost being:

--Just who has come back from hell to warn us to avoid upside-down burials? Presuming that the afterlife is the final pit-stop in existence, just how would that information make it back to us poor slobs on earth?

--Heaven and Hell are metaphysical locations, not actual places you could get to by either digging deep enough or pointing a space shuttle in the right direction. So, I don't think that really matters either.

--If there is an afterlife where one is judged on their deeds and misdeeds, there would have to be enough sense behind the setup so that it it wasn't governed by GRAVITY.

--A burial is a ceremony (usually religious) involving invocations and consecrated ground and all of that. I find it hard to believe that with all the "go to Heaven" type of well-wishing that is involved, an upside-down oopsie would foul the whole thing up.

--I guess, then, that he doesn't find it funny, the folks who have said, "When I die, I want to be buried face down so the whole world can kiss my ass."


(BTW: I have heard both pronunciations used, however, "berried" seems to be the more popular of the two. Yes, it looks weird sometimes. [Smile] )

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Orac:
/hijack This question reminds me of something odd I was told. Catholics (supposedly) believe that if your body is cremated you go to hell. That led me to ask what if you died in a fire and your body was cremated? /end hijack

I thought that the explanation was that during rapture "the dead will rise into Christ". Kind of hard for the dead to rise if their bodies are burned away

I could be wrong though

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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The Fourth Man
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Orac:
/hijack This question reminds me of something odd I was told. Catholics (supposedly) believe that if your body is cremated you go to hell. That led me to ask what if you died in a fire and your body was cremated? /end hijack

According to this source, the Catholic Church no longer forbids cremation.

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If you keep trying, you'll eventually succeed. Therefore, the more you fail, the higher your chances of success.
-- Jacques Rouxel, 1931-2004 RIP :(

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Page Three
Deck the Malls


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My guess is that it's not so much "going to hell" but "being in trouble on Judgement Day", what with bodily resurrection and all. It could have evolved from "this might be a problem" to "going to hell". For cremation, the problem is obvious. For being buried face down, however... I dunno. Maybe the image of all those bodies rising for final judgement rear end first just isn't dignified enough for the occasion. [Big Grin]
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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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The Catholic church has allowed cremation since 1963, but still maintains that human remains are sacred, and as such, must be interred in consecrated ground. No spreading of ashes is allowed.

The specific phrase, I believe, in the Nicene creed, is that one believes in the "resurrection of the body". Considering that the church had, for centuries, supported the subdivision of human remains as holy relics, and even allowed the burial of the heart separate from the body, it seemed like a weak argument. Many people die and their bodies suffer horrible trauma. Think only of those who die in fire, or are buried at sea, only to be consumed by sea animals.

What is actually done with human remains is not necessarily held against the soul of the dead, but rather, would be held against those who did it. If one makes arrangements to have their ashes scattered, then it would be against Catholic teaching, but it would be a greater sin to go against someone's wishes of a proper Catholic burial.

In other words, how you are buried - face up or down - is not really a problem.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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mizzie
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Maybe the image of all those bodies rising for final judgement rear end first just isn't dignified enough for the occasion
[lol] That's the funniest mental image I've had in a long time! Thanks for the laugh. ^_^
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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Iguana:
[QB]--Just who has come back from hell to warn us to avoid upside-down burials? Presuming that the afterlife is the final pit-stop in existence, just how would that information make it back to us poor slobs on earth?

Presumably if this actually is gained knowledge somehow, it is gained in much the same way that we know of the supposed 'heaven' and 'hell' in the first place. This argument only holds water if you claim there is no information (right or wrong) in the human sphere of knowledge about what happens after death - because, you know, nobody's come back to tell us.

quote:
Isn't there some Vampire lore that a suspected vampire would be buried face down so that if they awoke that they would start digging downwards?
Because gravity doesn't work underground and they can't tell which way is up?

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"We don't keep a certified whale-vomit expert on staff." - Larry Penny, Director, Natural Resources Department, Town of East Hampton

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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If you are religious enough to believe in heaven and hell, you sure don't hold your god in high regard if you think the sorting criteria is which way you face when you are buried.

Besides, everybody knows that you go to Valhalla when you die.

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/Troberg

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Floater
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:

Besides, everybody knows that you go to Valhalla when you die.

Only those who die in battle. The rest go to Hel.

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Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan

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Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I have no cite, but I seem to remember that being buried face down was a common 'after death punishment' for supposed witches (this would go for vampires, as well) - same as being buried outside sacred grounds or not being buried at all (ashes shattered in the winds).

I'll try to find a cite.

Don "bottoms up!" Enrico

ETA:
Vampires in New Orleans
quote:
... you would take steps to prevent the corpse from returning from the dead. Commonly used procedures would include burying the corpse face down, ...
Roman burials in Derby, UK
quote:
One particular grave site, containing both inhumations and cremations, had unusual features: several of the interments had been mutilated prior to or whilst being buried; the left hand of one had been severed; others had been decapitated and in several cases the heads had been placed between the knees; two others had been buried face down.
The reason for these strange rites at the time of burial perhaps dates back to an old superstitious belief concerning witches and dark sorcery. When a dead person was believed to have been a witch or black magician, or in any way connected with magic and witchcraft, it was the custom to bury them face down or remove their head in order that they should not rise from the grave and haunt the living.

Apparently, it's an old tradition.

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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear

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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Floater:
quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:

Besides, everybody knows that you go to Valhalla when you die.

Only those who die in battle. The rest go to Hel.
And then the ancient Greeks held that everyone who died went to the same place (Hades) unless you were REALLY awesome or REALLY virtuous or just REALLY super cool, and then you would to to the Elysian Fields. And even then, Hades wasn't Hell, per se, in that it wasn't a land of eternal doom and punishment and pain. It was just the place you went where you died. Sounds quite boring.

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They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius

If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Floater:
quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:

Besides, everybody knows that you go to Valhalla when you die.

Only those who die in battle. The rest go to Hel.
Unless they drowned.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Phaedra
Jingle Bell Hock


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A quote from the British archaeology magazine. (March 2003) had the following to say about face down burials.

quote:
A substantial minority of burials, however, show a different and darker attitude to corpses. These rough burials are often written off as 'careless', but the patterns are too consistent across Roman Britain for simple negligence to be the explanation. These disturbing burials include bodies that are dismembered, mutilated, bound, buried face down, decapitated, with signs of violence other than warfare, or with evidence for defleshing and exposure. The two most common variants are prone (face-down) and decapitated burials.
This practice may suggest a belief in an afterlife and a motive to punish beyond death.

ETA comment.

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Floater
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Iguana:
And even then, Hades wasn't Hell, per se, in that it wasn't a land of eternal doom and punishment and pain. It was just the place you went where you died. Sounds quite boring.

Neither was Hel. It was just a dark gloomy shadowland where nothing really happened.

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Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan

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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Floater:
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Iguana:
And even then, Hades wasn't Hell, per se, in that it wasn't a land of eternal doom and punishment and pain. It was just the place you went where you died. Sounds quite boring.

Neither was Hel. It was just a dark gloomy shadowland where nothing really happened.
Good to know. My knowledge about the old Norse gods is very limited. I learned something new! [Smile]

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They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius

If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing.

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Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Floater:
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Iguana:
And even then, Hades wasn't Hell, per se, in that it wasn't a land of eternal doom and punishment and pain. It was just the place you went where you died. Sounds quite boring.

Neither was Hel. It was just a dark gloomy shadowland where nothing really happened.
You mean: like Sweden?

*ducks and runs for cover*

[Wink]

Don Enrico

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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear

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Rhea
We Three Blings


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[lol]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Don Enrico.

Rh"Great Minds think alike"ea

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Only those who die in battle. The rest go to Hel.
Yeah, but weaklings who are too scared to die in battle don't count.

quote:
You mean: like Sweden?

*ducks and runs for cover*

No need to run, it's an accurate description (and we'll find you anyway).

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/Troberg

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Brandi
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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The only thing I'd ever heard regarding face-down burial was that if it was thought that the dead person was a candidate for coming back from the dead as a vampire or revenant (due to any number of really odd factors ranging from being a sorceror to accidents of birth), they might be buried face-down so that they would dig themselves deeper if they woke up.
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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
If you are religious enough to believe in heaven and hell, you sure don't hold your god in high regard if you think the sorting criteria is which way you face when you are buried.

And it seems to me that if you're religious enough to believe God can raise you from the dead, you'd have the faith to believe he can sort your ashes.

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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Nion
We Three Blings


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[Glurgy]

So it was that all those cremated lifted their ashes in unison, frothing to an fro.

LO! They lifted themselves unto heaven, ever creating a roiling miasma of smoke and ash, wrapping themselves about almighty God in an everlasting embrace.

[/Glurgy]

Feel . . . so . . . DIRTY . . .

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It can't rain all the time.

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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The Catholic church teaches that when the dead will rise on Judgment Day, they will get a new, glorious and immortal body. So, logically, the state of the corpse doesn't matter that much, as long as it had a proper burial (or prayers were said for the dead in case the body could not be retreived).

As for when this will happen...

Pope John XXII (1249-1316) had a strange but logical theory : He said that the dead wouldn't see or feel the presence of God (beatific vision) until Judgment Day.
Hence, considering that no one has been judged by God yet, the dead will stay dead - *Heaven and Hell remaining empty* until Judgment Day.

Of course, the Church wasn't pleased. Telling the people they could wait quietly for the End of Days instead of going straight to Heaven or Hell was giving up their most powerful psychological tool, and made the existence of saints (whose cult was - and still is - the Churches main source of income) highly questionable.

Pope or not, John XXII had to back off under the pressure of his own clergy, and this interesting idea was promptly dismissed as heretical after his demise.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Floater
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:

As for when this will happen...

Pope John XXII (1249-1316) had a strange but logical theory : He said that the dead wouldn't see or feel the presence of God (beatific vision) until Judgment Day.
Hence, considering that no one has been judged by God yet, the dead will stay dead - *Heaven and Hell remaining empty* until Judgment Day.

Ehr, isn't that the general idea of the Christian faith? At least this is what the (lutheran) Church of Sweden teaches if I remember correctly (I left the church thirty years ago and haven't returned since).

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Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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Basically yes, Floater, but most Christians I know (both catholic and protestant) rather believe in some sort of "instant judgment" with the souls of the dead being sent to the place that fits their actions at once.

Theologically, it's wrong, but that's the popular vision. For a (former) Calvinist like me, it's even more wrong, as you can't be saved by your deeds, but by God's grace only (so I was told, at least). Judgment Day being some terrible event in a distant future too scary to think of, nobody being sure to be saved.

Besides, if the judgment takes place after the End of Days, so there must be no saints to pray to yet. Something very difficult to accept, especially for the catholics - and a many protestants who kept a certain affection for the main saints as well.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Orac
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by Little Pink Pill:
quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
If you are religious enough to believe in heaven and hell, you sure don't hold your god in high regard if you think the sorting criteria is which way you face when you are buried.

And it seems to me that if you're religious enough to believe God can raise you from the dead, you'd have the faith to believe he can sort your ashes.
Kinda what I thought. I mean, it's not like EVERY body of EVERY person is still in the ground somewhere. Most decomposed and turned into plant fodder. That whole "circle of life thing" that Mufasa kept going on about.
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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
If you are religious enough to believe in heaven and hell, you sure don't hold your god in high regard if you think the sorting criteria is which way you face when you are buried.
If anything, it would probably be the guy who buried someone face down in hope of making them end up in hell who would be likely to go that way.

--------------------
/Troberg

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Doesn't seem to be any more ridiculous than a Deity who would send someone there just because he didn't believe in It. Just as arbitrary, to me at least.
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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Doesn't seem to be any more ridiculous than a Deity who would send someone there just because he didn't believe in It. Just as arbitrary, to me at least.
Or for procreating without performing a specific ritual first.

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/Troberg

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Angel With Wax Wings
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Orac:
/hijack This question reminds me of something odd I was told. Catholics (supposedly) believe that if your body is cremated you go to hell. That led me to ask what if you died in a fire and your body was cremated? /end hijack

I'm converting to Catholicism and we actually went over this topic, no you WON'T go to hell if you are cremated, the nun Sister Marie, told us this. As long as your ashes are treated respectfully or spread somewhere you won't go to hell....just don't throw the urn in a box and shove it in the attic. I'm not being cremated anyway I'm donating my body to science!

~Monica

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"Run for five minutes? Why don't you just shoot me now?"--Comic Book Guy (Simpsons)

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annabohly
Jingle Bell Hock


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So the action of how someone treats your ashes can send you to hell???

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And always remember....when life hands you Lemons, ask for tequila and salt and call me over !!!!!

Posts: 521 | From: St. Louis, MO | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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