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Author Topic: British dental care
snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
But discoloured or crooked teeth have got bog all to do with good oral hygiene. Tea and coffee and red wine etc. can all stain your teeth no matter how often you brush them but the teeth themselves can still be perfectly healthy underneath; people's teeth can grow crookedly yet still be absolutely healthy.

I think you need to reassess your definition of "shallow". Spending your money on having your teeth fixed to conform to some preconceived notion of "good teeth" smack far more to me of shallowness than buying something nice like a new car - or rather, YOUR preference that they do the former rather than the latter does.

why should I reassess MY definition of shallow? why don't YOU reasses YOUR definition of shallow? I happen to think that wanting straight teeth (which by the way are less likely to need to be replaced with dentures, and dentures are a drag) IS less shallow than some big gaudy piece of electronics that will be landfill in 5 years.

You can disagree but since apparently what is shallow and what is not is subjective, I think I'll keep my own idea of what is shallow and not. Upon evaluating my idea of shallow, I think it's just fine and I will let it stand.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Ganzfeld
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In this thread, I have to admit a kind of "thing" I have for discolored teeth. I mean the translucent grayish teeth you sometimes see, especially in non-fluoridated countries. I first noticed it on British actresses (probably Judy Geeson in Danger UXB -- does anyone else remember that show?). Anyway, I find it oddly attractive. As it turns out, lots of Japanese women have that too. Is that weird or what? Okay, back to the topic. Never mind my weird... er, teeth fetish.
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Mosherette
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See what Doc J said. You (and others) seem to think that anyone with slightly discoloured and/or crooked teeth doesn't know how to take care of them, which is completely untrue. I am very very lucky to have naturally straight and fairly white-ish teeth, so I've not exactly got a vested interest in this argument. I just do not understand why you seem to think that a couple of unstraight teeth = poor oral hygiene and you don't want them near you.

(Actually, since you said "really bad teeth" and made mention of actual oral problems such as cavities, I'll say perhaps my rant was a ltitle misdirected and should have been aimed more at Rhiandmoi. But please note that yellow, crooked teeth are not necessarily bad and can be perfectly healthy - no cavities required.)

ETA: get out of the way, Ganz. [Wink]

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Ganzfeld
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
ETA: get out of the way, Ganz. [Wink]

Show me some teeth on that smile and I'd be glad to!
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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc J.:
quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
They don't have to be totally Hollywood but if somebody has obviously unfilled cavities or periodontis disease, their mouth isn't going to get within three feet of mine

But nobody was talking about peridontitis, or weeping abscesses - the words used were straight and white.

We're not talking basic oral hygeine, we're discussing elective cosmetic procedures.

There's a continuum. Perfectly white and straight teeth would be at one end. A mouthfull of brown wizened up little nubbins would be at the other. Straight but yellow, or white but caried, or slightly crooked and gray, or any other combination would be somewhere in the middle.

If someone has crooked teeth you can correctly assume they have not spent the money to have them straightened. You cannot assume they either have or have not had regular cleanings and other maintenance, but it certainly doesn't prove they HAVE, whereas a perfect smile would seem to be very unlikely to not see a dentist.

It's probably not a fair assumption at all but unless you go around with a sign saying "my teeth are crooked and stained but I swear I just had them cleaned last April" there's no way for anyone to know for sure.

-Not that I care what condition your teeth are unless they are getting all up next to mine, anyway. I'm just saying.

My car is always filthy and I'm sure people would be shocked to know that I change the oil every 3000 miles religiously. Because it sure doens't look like anyone maintains that vehicle. So I get it that straight/white doesn't necessarily equal healthy, but it is a fact that malocclusion can cause problems with cleaning and other problems - so there is some valid basis to connect certain types of teeth with problems.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Mosherette
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quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
ETA: get out of the way, Ganz. [Wink]

Show me some teeth on that smile and I'd be glad to!
[Big Grin]

--------------------
Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
See what Doc J said. You (and others) seem to think that anyone with slightly discoloured and/or crooked teeth doesn't know how to take care of them, which is completely untrue. I am very very lucky to have naturally straight and fairly white-ish teeth, so I've not exactly got a vested interest in this argument. I just do not understand why you seem to think that a couple of unstraight teeth = poor oral hygiene and you don't want them near you.

(Actually, since you said "really bad teeth" and made mention of actual oral problems such as cavities, I'll say perhaps my rant was a ltitle misdirected and should have been aimed more at Rhiandmoi. But please note that yellow, crooked teeth are not necessarily bad and can be perfectly healthy - no cavities required.)

ETA: get out of the way, Ganz. [Wink]

I don't think that a couple of unstraight teeth necessarily means poor health, and I didn't mean it to come across that way. [Smile] I need to clarify - I think that *very bad* teeth of any kind indicates that someone is not going to the dentist and they most likely will have some problems. I mean bad teeth as in the kind that they sell as novelty Bubba teeth.
If I misworded it I didn't mean to! I haven't had my teeth staining coffee yet.

-My son's teeth are not perfect but are very good and we didn't get braces for him so I do agree there's no pressing health reason to get almost perfect teeth fixed.

My daughter has shark teeth and she will be getting braces.

My teeth aren't perfectly white but honestly, if I had the money to throw around on useless things, I'd get them whitened a little. I don't see any diff between spending money on that or on clothes or anything else.

edited.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Mosherette
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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
If someone has crooked teeth you can correctly assume they have not spent the money to have them straightened. You cannot assume they either have or have not had regular cleanings and other maintenance, but it certainly doesn't prove they HAVE, whereas a perfect smile would seem to be very unlikely to not see a dentist.

Well, Here's my smile, with no straightening or whitening ever, and after five years of smoking 20 a day - and when that pic was taken I'd not been to the dentist for about six years. You'll notice I have one slightly yellowed tooth, caused by a dentist mucking up a filling and having to make the inside wall of that tooth much thinner than it needed to be. Grrr.

ETA: glad misunderstandings have been cleared up [Smile]

--------------------
Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
If someone has crooked teeth you can correctly assume they have not spent the money to have them straightened. You cannot assume they either have or have not had regular cleanings and other maintenance, but it certainly doesn't prove they HAVE, whereas a perfect smile would seem to be very unlikely to not see a dentist.

Well, Here's my smile, with no straightening or whitening ever, and after five years of smoking 20 a day - and when that pic was taken I'd not been to the dentist for about six years. You'll notice I have one slightly yellowed tooth, caused by a dentist mucking up a filling and having to make the inside wall of that tooth much thinner than it needed to be. Grrr.
Your teeth are gorgeous. You do not have the kind of teeth that I would be concerned about.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Lainie
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The only thing that baffles me is why people who have the resources to attend to genuine dental health issues sometimes don't do so. I'm not talking about people who are afraid: I'm talking about people like the co-worker I mentioned earlier, who skipped the dentist for 10 years, apparently out of sheer inertia, only to spend six months having massive work done that he could have avoided entirely or done a bit at a time, more cheaply and less painfully. Or two of my older brothers, who despite years of having good dental insurance let some of their teeth go to the point of losing them. (Of course, one of my two brothers has also been known to remove his partial, or flip it around in his mouth, at the table in a restaurant, so maybe he's just weird.)

I freely admit I'm a freak about my own teeth. I have my reasons for being that way, and I don't expect everyone else to be like that. But there is a happy medium between being a tooth-maintenance freak and letting your teeth rot in your mouth when you have the resources to prevent it.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Cervus
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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
Your teeth are gorgeous. You do not have the kind of teeth that I would be concerned about.

Ditto, Mosh. You are very fortunate.

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
But there is a happy medium between being a tooth-maintenance freak and letting your teeth rot in your mouth when you have the resources to prevent it.

That is what I was trying to say but I think my teeth got in the way. [Wink]

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Neffti Noel
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I take a similar stance to Mosh. Unfortunately though I have terribly crooked teeth of various hues. Dental care came to me late in life, my parents gave it zero priority (I know that sounds very "blame the parents" but as an example I can remember one Christmas when Grandma came to stay that we had to brush our teeth before bedtime and I kicked off because it was so unfamiliar) and didn't think organising braces for me was important. But then, my Mum also thought using deodorant was far too conformist for our house, so we're not a very good yardstick for UK attitudes to teeth.

When I hit my 20s all hell broke loose and I had to have a lot of very major, expensive work to prevent my teeth from falling out. Restored to full health, but still looking like Stonehenge, I looked into getting a brace. It would have cost me more than I have spent on holidays for the past 5 years. Since my teeth are no longer doing me any harm, I'm going to leave them even though getting them fixed is technically within my means (ie no holidays for 5 years).

All of this leads me to the opposite position to Cervus and Snapdragonfly. I am more likely to respect someone who has the means to straighten their otherwise healthy teeth, but has chosen to spend that money elsewhere, and not necessarily on a "good cause" either. If I suddenly found £20k on my doorstep, straightening my teeth would be considered, but even then I might just blow it all on non-cosmetic activities. [Big Grin]

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Mistletoey Chloe
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How is cosmetic straightening of teeth different, except in degree, to say, getting breast implants or a nose job? What about flat-chested women or big-nosed men choosing electronics over making the most of their features? Is that still a misuse of resources?

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Neffti Noel
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Those are good questions Chloe. I personally put cosmetic teeth straightening in the same bag as other cosmetic surgery. None of these things are are a misuse of resources. If it makes someone feel better about themselves and keeps someone else in a job, all good.

For me personally though, anything that involves great expense and discomfort in the name of cosmetic improvement is not a priority, and like most people I gravitate towards relationships with people who hold similar views to my own. Crooked/stained but healthy teeth (I know, I know, how do you tell?) for me indicate someone who takes care of themselves, but doesn't invest heavily in their appearance either.

ETA - Just been examining my point of view by thinking of extreme cases, and realised that I actually get a small buzz from seeing people with heavily customised teeth, gold, diamonds and the like. It's not my taste, but I'm secretly impressed... not for very long, but I AM impressed. Maybe it's because there's an element of creativity there, as with tattoos or some piercings (I say some because getting my ears pierced at 14 was an exercise in pure conformity!).

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Rhiandmoi
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc J.:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
I wonder why we are so obsessed with straight white teeth. I know that teeth are really important to me, and one thing that is a major turn off is someone that is well enough off to get their teeth taken care of that spends their money on something else.

Would you describe yourself as shallow ?
I would describe myself as shallow when it comes to teeth. Slightly yellowed teeth are not a big deal to me. Severely stained teeth are. Whether it is from smoking, wine, or coffee regular visits to the dentist should keep your teeth a color reasonably recognizable as white. My teeth were a little dark for my tastes, so I had them lightened. Having pretty teeth is important to me and a priority, and I expect someone that I might be getting turned on by to have similar priorities.

ETA: Mosh your teeth are very nice.

I feel like I am on the defensive over liking teeth. If a person can't afford to have straight or white teeth, there isn't much they can do about it. But if they can, because teeth are such a priority to me, I am turned off by people that don't share that priority.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Cervus
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I think almost all of us could name a physical characteristic that we'd consider a turn-off. And all of us might be considered shallow by someone who finds that characteristic unimportant or even attractive.

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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black roses 19
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quote:
If someone has crooked teeth you can correctly assume they have not spent the money to have them straightened.
I wore braces for 4 years. My teeth are very crooked and I have a horrible overbite. No, it isn't because I didn't wear my retainer; it's because the orthodontist royally screwed up (and also messed up my jaw).

Assumptions aren't always correct.

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"I find them to be in contradiction of the basic principles of YOUR MOM!!!" -We've Got Mail

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:

I feel like I am on the defensive over liking teeth.

That's funny, I felt quite defensive about my not prioritising teeth for a second back there! [Big Grin] I don't think either of us need to though. No-one in this thread has attacked anyone for their preferences or attempted to impose their own, and after all they are just that - preferences about what we find physically attractive and how we choose to present ourselves.

By the way - this " [Big Grin] " guy doesn't need to worry about his teeth does he? [lol]

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Neffti Neta:
[ No-one in this thread has attacked anyone for their preferences or attempted to impose their own, and after all they are just that - preferences about what we find physically attractive and how we choose to present ourselves.

[/QB]

Yes.

But perhaps those of you not fortunate enough to live in my neck of the woods (and that would be a rather red one) don't have the same cultural reference that we children of de souf do.

Please check out this link so you will more fully understand why there is a tendency to correlate teeth with...well...let's just say that there is some validity, in some parts of the world, to connect a priority on "good" teeth with other less "shallow" values. [lol]

edited.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by black roses 19:
quote:
If someone has crooked teeth you can correctly assume they have not spent the money to have them straightened.
I wore braces for 4 years. My teeth are very crooked and I have a horrible overbite. No, it isn't because I didn't wear my retainer; it's because the orthodontist royally screwed up (and also messed up my jaw).

Assumptions aren't always correct.

That's true. But you SHOULD have had straight teeth. Very unfair.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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I do see what you're saying, Snapdragonfly, and I confess that after seeing those pictures I have gone right off my cuppa. [lol]

Out of interest, how often do you actually see a mouth like that where you are? Is it a common sight or is it more of an imagined stereotype?

For me, the last time I remember seeing a mouth like that it was about 3 years ago and belonged to a homeless woman. If we're talking priorities, well, I think sanity and a roof were probably top of hers.

Interestingly, I can think of a handful of people I have met (ooh, get me! I've cleaned toilets in the best places [Big Grin] ) or seen on TV who could be considered top end upper class who have horribly unattractive teeth.

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Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
Please check out this link ...

Blimey - are those real?

I guess that those people are mostly American, or conforming to a US stereotype (what with the "Bubba" thing)? So why do Americans have such terrible teeth, then? I don't think I've ever seen teeth that bad in the UK...

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
Please check out this link ...

Blimey - are those real?

I guess that those people are mostly American, or conforming to a US stereotype (what with the "Bubba" thing)? So why do Americans have such terrible teeth, then? I don't think I've ever seen teeth that bad in the UK...

I thought the link was to a website taking the piss out of an American stereotype...

It IS a joke, isn't it? [Eek!]

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snapdragonfly
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Yes, it's a joke. You guys haven't heard of Bubba teeth out there?

-but it goes, like a lot of stereotypes, to a rather common truth that there's a certain element (cue up Dueling Banjos here) that makes some of us associate good teeth with something rather more profound than just vanity. [lol]

Have you not seen Larry the Cable guy? (his teeth are actually not bad) I'm telling you, that guy is NOT exaggerating and I know a lot of people who look and talk EXACTLY like him.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Neffti Neta:
I do see what you're saying, Snapdragonfly, and I confess that after seeing those pictures I have gone right off my cuppa. [lol]

Out of interest, how often do you actually see a mouth like that where you are? Is it a common sight or is it more of an imagined stereotype?

For me, the last time I remember seeing a mouth like that it was about 3 years ago and belonged to a homeless woman. If we're talking priorities, well, I think sanity and a roof were probably top of hers.

Interestingly, I can think of a handful of people I have met (ooh, get me! I've cleaned toilets in the best places [Big Grin] ) or seen on TV who could be considered top end upper class who have horribly unattractive teeth.

I've seen them. I have. My town is large and diverse enough to have every strata of society there is, but you get out into the sticks and I'm telling you, you think some of this stuff is just exaggerated or made up - it isn't.

My husband had a co-worker who would get his gun out of his truck during lunchbreak, shoot one of the squirrels (or maybe a crow) hanging around their lunchbox, and put it back in his lunchbox to take home to make stew for dinner. Which doesn't make for bad teeth either, I'm just saying that the whole redneck thing is not imagined.

(I know even doctors and lawyers who go to "squirrel camp" every year but there is just something about killing your dinner on your lunch break...)

ETA and I know at least three people named Bubba. I'm not kidding.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
[So why do Americans have such terrible teeth, then? [/QB]

Well, Americans also have given us the Hollywood perfect paper whites, but in the case of these particular people, I imagine it's grinding poverty, and no access to dental care.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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Are we basically talking about inbreeding and maybe being biologivally destined not to have good teeth nor the brains to look after those teeth you have got? Or is it a class snobbery thing of distancing oneself from people in certain circumstances lacking the means or motivation to look after their teeth? Or a little of both?

BTW I know snobbery is an emotive word and it's not aimed at anyone here. I've always been interested in this US hill-billy stereotype I've no frame of reference. These are just the two possibilities that have occurred to me.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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So... if it's a joke, does that mean that those teeth aren't real? I get the "take the piss out of the hillbillies" thing but are those pictures of real people?

And the fact remains that on the evidence provided, to find really horrendous teeth you'd need to go to the USA...!

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
So... if it's a joke, does that mean that those teeth aren't real? I get the "take the piss out of the hillbillies" thing but are those pictures of real people?

And the fact remains that on the evidence provided, to find really horrendous teeth you'd need to go to the USA...!

Psst, Richard, I wondered the same thing but if you look around the website it looks a bit like the US equivalent of Chavscum. ETA - with one major difference - Chavscum's cruel enough to post pictures of actual people. The other website has pictures of people pretending.
Posts: 1157 | From: Westcountry UK "It's Bootiful" | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Neffti Neta:
Are we basically talking about inbreeding and maybe being biologivally destined not to have good teeth nor the brains to look after those teeth you have got? Or is it a class snobbery thing of distancing oneself from people in certain circumstances lacking the means or motivation to look after their teeth? Or a little of both?

BTW I know snobbery is an emotive word and it's not aimed at anyone here. I've always been interested in this US hill-billy stereotype I've no frame of reference. These are just the two possibilities that have occurred to me.

All about hillbillies.

"To the people of the Appalachian Mountains, the term "hillbilly" is complex. It can be both embraced as a reference to heritage and hegemonic resistance, and/or seen to carry a negative connotation that has been greatly emphasized by how Hollywood movies and films portray the "hillbilly" as impoverished, ill-educated, toothless, shoeless, unstylish, inbred, etc. While such stereotyping is generally offensive, socio-economic realities have left much of the Appalachian region impoverished, although the economy has been steadily improving since the 1990s."

It's true that the people of the Appalachias are among the poorest in America and sometimes live in conditions one would expect to see in a third world country - and in such conditions, you are going to see very bad teeth.

It is fortunately true that it's been improving recently and soon I hope that the bad teeth thing will be only a stereotype with no basis in reality.

-and those teeth ARE fake, and yes, somewhat exaggerated. But not as much as you might think.

And around here, we have rednecks, which I guess are the flatland cousins of hillbillies, [Wink] and the culture shock is finally starting to wear off after 15 years here, but nevertheless it doesn't take a native more than 3 minutes to ask that same old question "yer not from around here, are ye?" - wish I had a buck for every time I was asked that. -Not that I'm going anywhere, I like it here and I like the rednecks. They'll just have to get used to me.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Simply Madeline
The First USA Noel


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The teeth are fake. Here's one of many sites selling them: http://billybobteeth.com/
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
It's true that the people of the Appalachias are among the poorest in America and sometimes live in conditions one would expect to see in a third world country - and in such conditions, you are going to see very bad teeth.

I think it's poverty coupled with large amounts of sugary food that leads to bad teeth. You don't necessarily see really bad teeth in the third world. Even bodies from neolithic times often have surprisingly decent teeth.
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snapdragonfly
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Richard, that's a valid point. Not all poor people have the same cultures. Also the condition of the water can contribute. There are native American tribes who are terribly poor but have such excellent water (ideal mineral content) that they have good teeth - so I was told by a teacher I knew who had taught them. A foaf story but since flouride in the water makes such a difference I can see the sense in it.

-by the way, in that link, it's interesting the connection between "hillbillies" and the peoples of the British Isles, isn't it?

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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Snapdragonfly - thanks for the link, I've learnt something there. Also I had no idea until today that hillbillies and rednecks weren't the same thing.
Posts: 1157 | From: Westcountry UK "It's Bootiful" | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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