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Author Topic: US Mint pushes new $1 coin
Die Capacitrix
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Regarding wallets. I think the wallets sold in a region reflect the currency. I had to buy a new wallet in Italy because the 100 Euro note does not fit in my normal Swiss-bought wallet. Most of the wallets here have a change compartment. My husband had to look for a while to find one without. After six years here he's starting to get the hang of spending small coins.

Since the smallest note is 10 CHF, coins are used quite often. Most cashiers wouldn't even blink if someone handed them 20 CHF in a mixture of 1, 2 and 5 CHF coins. I think people here are more likely to give coins to the cashier so that they will get notes, or larger coins back. For example, today I stopped at the grocery store and my bill came to 30.20 CHF. I gave the cashier 100.20 CHF (100 CHF notes are common - I probably even see a 200 CHF note at least once a week) and she gave me 70 CHF back in bills.

And I'm quite happy I normally don't have to fight with vending machines here to get them to accept some frayed bill. For this alone I think the U.S. should get rid of the 1$ bill.

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birdman
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
It really seems to me that your only objection boils down to being too set in your ways to adapt, rather than there being any real practical problem with using coins.

For what it's worth, I knew this line would be coming too, so I probably should've cut it off at the pass.

Suppose the situation were reversed, and every country but the U.S. were using dollar bills, but we were still using dollar coins. Then would I be hearing the glories and convenience of the thin paper notes that easily fit in your wallet and don't weigh down your pocket, whilst the Americans are too stuck in their ways using dollar coins?

I've attempted to explain why it's not that unreasonable to have even as much as $17 in small bills in one's wallet, but I see I've failed in that arena too. I wasn't even so much trying to justify our current dollar bill system, but rather trying to explain why it's not as inherently awful as the rest of you seem to think it is. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems; the reason I point out the positives of dollar bills is because everyone has already espoused the positives of the dollar coins.

If it's any consolation, I do wish the U.S. would switch to the metric system, so you can have that bone at least. [Big Grin]

-birdman

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bufungla
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis:
quote:
Originally posted by Class Bravo:
quote:
Originally posted by Wellen:
I've been in England for over a month now on a business trip. I'm really liking the 1 & 2 pound coins. I think one of the things that make them work so well is all the coin opperated machines take them. I know that' sone of the reasons I don't use the dollar coins.

That's kind of weird...most of the machines I have encountered still accept the Sacajawea dollar, especially postage stamp machines and machines that sell train/trolley tickets. In fact, the change from these machines is my only way of getting a Sacajawea dollar these days. I guess it just depends on where you are in the country.
The vending machines in the canteen area at my work acccept dollar coins as well.

ETA: I should mention that there is no indication on the machine that they do so; in fact, they also have a bill slot where you can feed a dollar bill (or fail to feed in a crumpled one dollar bill as the case may be). I found out they accept dollar coins one day when all I had to give the machine was a Sacagawea dollar, so I fed it to the machine to see what would happen and the $1.00 credit lit up on the LED.

Nick

Therin lies the problem. When I was in Australia, I loved dollar and two dollar coins because all the vending machines took them, and it beat trying to cold iron the wrinkles out of paper money on my thigh the way DC commuters trying to buy a metro card can be seen doing every morning. Here in the US, the only machines guaranteed to take dollar coins are the stamp machines in US post offices (which also take and return pennies). I've rarely if ever seen another vending machine labelled as accepting dollar coins, and I'm not about to risk having a vending machine swallow a dollar coin as a slug just to find out if it takes them.

The Catch-22 of dollar coins wrt vending machines in the US has always been the public saying "If vending machines accepted them, we would use them" and the vending machine companies saying "if the public used them, we'd modify the vending machines to accept them".

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Eddylizard
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IIRC a lot of people were hacked off when the English £1 note was replaced by a coin. But we got over it.

You can end up with a lot of coinage in your pocket, but as has been mentioned before, the trick is to spend it whenever possible instead of a note or to pop it in a jar for rainy days (even though it is embarassing to pop up the shops and fiddle and count through your small change to make up the price.)

And bugger metric - that's for scientists. I wish we could go back to Imperial measurements.

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Jenn
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quote:
Originally posted by bufungla:
The Catch-22 of dollar coins wrt vending machines in the US has always been the public saying "If vending machines accepted them, we would use them" and the vending machine companies saying "if the public used them, we'd modify the vending machines to accept them".

If the government stops producing and circulating the paper bills that will cease to be a problem. As it is, there's no real incentive for anyone to switch.

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SiKboy
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quote:
Originally posted by birdman:


Suppose the situation were reversed, and every country but the U.S. were using dollar bills, but we were still using dollar coins. Then would I be hearing the glories and convenience of the thin paper notes that easily fit in your wallet and don't weigh down your pocket, whilst the Americans are too stuck in their ways using dollar coins?

I've attempted to explain why it's not that unreasonable to have even as much as $17 in small bills in one's wallet, but I see I've failed in that arena too.

The thing is that you are explaining this situation about ending up with a big pile of coins in your pocket, to a thread full of people who, by and large, live places with a £1 coin, or a 1 euro coin, or a 1 whatever coin. So they are not only aware of the possibility, but deal with it on a daily basis, and they are telling you its not a big deal.

Quite aside from anything else, if you end up with a pocketful of change, you can always say to the person behind the till "Excuse me, but while you have tht till open, do you happen to have a fiver for five coins?" That way they get more change in their till, and you get a five pound note instead of five coins.

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trollface
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quote:
Originally posted by birdman:
Suppose the situation were reversed, and every country but the U.S. were using dollar bills, but we were still using dollar coins. Then would I be hearing the glories and convenience of the thin paper notes that easily fit in your wallet and don't weigh down your pocket, whilst the Americans are too stuck in their ways using dollar coins?

I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't mean Americans in general, I mean you, specifically.

As it is, all the objections you have raised, as well as others (like it being "toy money"), were raised when pound coins were introduced in this country. And now it's just the way it is. It's not more difficult to deal with. It really isn't.

quote:
I've attempted to explain why it's not that unreasonable to have even as much as $17 in small bills in one's wallet, but I see I've failed in that arena too.
I didn't say that it was unreasonable. I just don't think that it's amazingly likely to happen all that often.

quote:
I wasn't even so much trying to justify our current dollar bill system, but rather trying to explain why it's not as inherently awful as the rest of you seem to think it is.
I don't think that anyone's said that. Just that having pound/dollar coins isn't really much of an insurmountable inconvenience.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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birdman
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*sigh* I sure know how to pick my battles on snopes, don't I?

I think I'll go to the bank and get a roll of dollar coins to keep at home. Every time I get a dollar bill, I'll keep it stowed away in a drawer somewhere and exchange it for one of my dollar coins. And I'll stop paying everything with twenties, and instead use the coins whenever possible. Hopefully that way I'll get used to using them, and once we finally do make the switch, I'll be ready (then I too can laugh at the idiots clinging to their dollar bills [Wink] ). Once I have enough singles saved up, I can get another roll of coins.

-birdman

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Doug4.7
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quote:
Originally posted by bufungla:
The Catch-22 of dollar coins wrt vending machines in the US has always been the public saying "If vending machines accepted them, we would use them" and the vending machine companies saying "if the public used them, we'd modify the vending machines to accept them".

That is the problem around my area. None of the vending machines accept the $1 coin. They have "Does not accept $1 coins" plastered all over them. I've only used two machines that did accept/return $1 coins: the first was a toll booth on a turnpike around Tulsa and the second was at the local Post Office. That was it.

Once vending machines regularly accept them, I bet they will come into wide use. Same thing with the $2 bill.

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Nick Theodorakis
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
quote:
Originally posted by bufungla:
The Catch-22 of dollar coins wrt vending machines in the US has always been the public saying "If vending machines accepted them, we would use them" and the vending machine companies saying "if the public used them, we'd modify the vending machines to accept them".

That is the problem around my area. None of the vending machines accept the $1 coin. They have "Does not accept $1 coins" plastered all over them. I've only used two machines that did accept/return $1 coins: the first was a toll booth on the Muscogee Turnpike and the second was at the local Post Office. That was it.

Once vending machines regularly accept them, I bet they will come into wide use. Same thing with the $2 bill.

I have a question (well, 2 actually): Are these older machines, and do they accept $1 bills? ISTM that if they don't accept bills, then there is no big loss if they don't do dollar coins, either (earlier, I had posted that the machines at our work that have dollar bill feeders also seem to accept dollar coins).

Interestingly, the Coin Coalition, which is funded in part by vending machine companies (and which supports the dollar coin), seems to imply that a large number of vending machines already support dollar coins.

Nick

ETA there is no such thing as a cpoin

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Doug4.7
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis:
I have a question (well, 2 actually): Are these older machines, and do they accept $1 bills?

They are not older ones and they DO accept $1 bills. The ones at my office don't accept $2 bills, however (tried it with a brand new bill and the machines would not accept it). They do accept $5 bills, however. [Confused] They give back lots of quarters as change when you do put in a $5.

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Nick Theodorakis
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis:
I have a question (well, 2 actually): Are these older machines, and do they accept $1 bills?

They are not older ones and they DO accept $1 bills. The ones at my office don't accept $2 bills, however (tried it with a brand new bill and the machines would not accept it). They do accept $5 bills, however. [Confused] They give back lots of quarters as change when you do put in a $5.
Strange. I'm just surprised that Indiana is ahead of somebody.

Nick

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Doug4.7
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis:
quote:
Originally posted by Doug4.7:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis:
I have a question (well, 2 actually): Are these older machines, and do they accept $1 bills?

They are not older ones and they DO accept $1 bills. The ones at my office don't accept $2 bills, however (tried it with a brand new bill and the machines would not accept it). They do accept $5 bills, however. [Confused] They give back lots of quarters as change when you do put in a $5.
Strange. I'm just surprised that Indiana is ahead of somebody.
I must say, I've not tried all of the vending machines in town. The ones I use most are on a university campus in a building that is rented to the Federal government for research offices, so we may have the most backwards machines in the country.

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And now for something completely different...

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birdman
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I've actually seen a few coin-operated devices that *only* take Sacagawea dollars, and they always have a bill changing machine right next to it. One right off the top of my head is the lockers near Millennium Force at Cedar Point. There's generally a line of people waiting to get coins, because -- you guessed it -- the bill feeder doesn't like wrinkled bills. [Smile]

-birdman

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educatedindian
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I don't think anyone will mourn the choice of a new person on the 1 dollar coin. Sacajawea was first promoted as a heroine by white feminists in the early 20th century. I haven't heard of any feminists lately holding her up as role model.

Native people have never liked the focus on her and generally consider her to be like Squanto, someone whites hold up as a "good Indian" meaning one who is subservient to whites and content with it. In all fairness to the actual person, it's not right to saddle her with others' preconceptions long after her death. She was a victim while alive, with little control over her own life as a slave.

I remember a discussion on a Native listserv when the Sacajawea coin came out. The consensus was Natives would've have preferred Wilma Mankiller, the first female president of a major tribe, on the 1 dollar coin. But since living people aren't allowed on currency, the second choice would be Anna Mae Aquash, martyr for the American Indian Movement.

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Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by birdman:
I wasn't even so much trying to justify our current dollar bill system, but rather trying to explain why it's not as inherently awful as the rest of you seem to think it is.

I don't think anyone really thinks that small bills are inherently awful (unless I missed someone saying so). Rather, many of us have experienced both and we find it's simply not that different. I remember having paper one and two dollar bills and I remember when the coins first came out and I heard all of the same points you've been raising. For the most part, I'd say history has shown that those concerns simply aren't all that valid in practice. Those of us who have been through it know that it's not that difficult a transition, it's not that inconvenient, it's not a hassle. It's a little weird to see a new kind of money at first, but that's really as bad as it gets.

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Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by birdman:
Suppose the situation were reversed, and every country but the U.S. were using dollar bills, but we were still using dollar coins. Then would I be hearing the glories and convenience of the thin paper notes that easily fit in your wallet and don't weigh down your pocket, whilst the Americans are too stuck in their ways using dollar coins?

I don't think so...

Ignoring the historical context where it happened the other way around from your example for a reason (the cost of continually replacing low denomination notes eventually became too high compared to their face value), I can think of a couple of reasons that going back to notes would annoy me, even having had both.

Firstly, low denomination notes usually become really tatty compared to other denominations. (Go to any poor country with a low-value currency and the notes used in general exchange can be completely falling apart and so dirty as to be almost unrecognisable. The notes rarely get banked and so there's no means of removing them from circulation). Apparently this isn't an issue in the USA because people presumably do bank dollar bills, and the government can afford to replace them regularly. To be fair, this one might be more to do with the proportion of people who use banks than it is an inherent property of low-value notes, but I suspect that even in the USA, dollar bills get banked less frequently than higher amounts because shops will want to keep them for small change.

A better objection is that we're used to thinking of coins as small values and notes as higher values. When I'm quickly checking how much cash I have, I look at the notes in my wallet - I don't count my change. A change from notes to coins means that you're likely to underestimate the money in your pocket, because your change is worth more than you think. A change from coins to notes would mean that I'd overestimate it because I'd have to get used to the fact that half the notes weren't worth as much as I thought. Underestimating how much cash you have is less of a problem than overestimating it.

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RLobinske
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quote:
Originally posted by KatrinaDuck:
My question is this (please forgive me if I missed it):
We know that there's no inscription on the back of the coin, but what IS on the back? Would that change as well?

It has the Statue of Liberty and the denomination.
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Mr. Furious
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As has been said, the only way that people in the US are going to use $1 coins consistently is if $1 bills are removed from circulation. I would like to see that happen.

When I was in London, I had absolutely no trouble discerning a £1 coin from the other coins in my pocket. They were thicker, and felt different. I was only there for a week, but I could easily fish a £1 coin out of my pocket without looking when I needed one. If I did pull change out of my pocket, the £1 coins were virtually impossible to confuse with another coin.

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Archie2K
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quote:
birdman:
Suppose the situation were reversed, and every country but the U.S. were using dollar bills, but we were still using dollar coins. Then would I be hearing the glories and convenience of the thin paper notes that easily fit in your wallet and don't weigh down your pocket, whilst the Americans are too stuck in their ways using dollar coins?

Maybe. Isn't that just normal. If this were 1969 I bet you'd have British defending out three tiered currency system with no 10 or 100 to be found. Twelve pounds, seven and sixpence indeed.

When dollar coins get introduced, I'm putting money into trollface's wallet redesigning scheme. I couldn't live without my change pocket. If I put change into my trouser pocket they always go missing.

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Lainie
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I'm sure the conversion from dollar bills to dollar coins will genuinely inconvenience some people. I just don't accept that the inconvenience justifies the continued expense of producing dollar bills.

We're fighting a godawfully expensive war and we have a huge budget deficit. This is an opportunity to reduce government spending without sacrificing our defense or our safety net. "I don't wanna carry a bunch of change," just doesn't hold up as an argument against taking advantage of that opportunity.

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birdman
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Archie2K:
When dollar coins get introduced, I'm putting money into trollface's wallet redesigning scheme. I couldn't live without my change pocket. If I put change into my trouser pocket they always go missing.

Heh, me too! Now that I'm in the dollar coin camp, I not only want a wallet with a change pocket, but want to buy stock in trollface's company. It could be called WhatchamaWallet and come in red, white, or blue tinted leather. [Smile]

I just realized, in my zeal to defend the almightly dollar bill, I never actually commented on the OP. I do think the presidential coin program will be more successful, as it will create more hype and will remind people of its existence four times a year. Part of the problem with the introduction of the Sacagawea dollar, I think, was that it was mainly available at banks and Wal*Mart, which created the illusion that there was only a limited avilability. You had to make a special point to ask for them if you wanted them. (Besides which, I never shop at Wal*Mart and I use the ATM for most of my transactions since banks are only open when I'm working, save Saturday mornings when I'm sleeping. I don't think I ever actually touched a Sacagawea dollar until two years after they were introduced. It was another year before I spent it, and only because I had run out of cash.)

One way to increase their presence might be, if they're going to distribute via Wal*Mart again, to ask cashiers to give them out with change instead of dollar bills. Don't wait for people to ask for them; just give 'em out regularly.

-birdman

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WildaBeast
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quote:
Originally posted by RLobinske:
quote:
Originally posted by KatrinaDuck:
My question is this (please forgive me if I missed it):
We know that there's no inscription on the back of the coin, but what IS on the back? Would that change as well?

It has the Statue of Liberty and the denomination.
After looking at the design I just had a horrible thought -- if this coin were to ever completely replace the dollar bill, how long do you think it would be before an email starts circulating claiming this is all part of the athiest liberal agenda to remove God from our currancy?

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birdman
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by WildaBeast:
]After looking at the design I just had a horrible thought -- if this coin were to ever completely replace the dollar bill, how long do you think it would be before an email starts circulating claiming this is all part of the athiest liberal agenda to remove God from our currancy?

It will still say "In God We Trust" though -- it will be inscribed on the edge of the coin, along with "E Pluribus Unum" and the year. Neat idea, since the two sides of the coin are already pretty crowded.

-birdman

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Mr. Furious
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quote:
Originally posted by birdman:
It will still say "In God We Trust" though -- it will be inscribed on the edge of the coin, along with "E Pluribus Unum" and the year. Neat idea, since the two sides of the coin are already pretty crowded.

If I understand correctly, that sounds similar to the £1 coins, which have various things inscribed on their edges.

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis:
ETA: I should mention that there is no indication on the machine that they do so; in fact, they also have a bill slot where you can feed a dollar bill (or fail to feed in a crumpled one dollar bill as the case may be). I found out they accept dollar coins one day when all I had to give the machine was a Sacagawea dollar, so I fed it to the machine to see what would happen and the $1.00 credit lit up on the LED.

I haven't been brave enough to try my dollar coins in a vending machines yet.

Vending machines rejecting dollar notes is one of the reasons I think the US should switch to dollar coins -- I rarely have trouble with machines failing to accept coins but the machines seem to spit out notes 50% of the time.

In addition to not withdrawing the dollar notes, I think the lack of publicity on vending machines accepting dollar coins also has hampered public acceptance of dollar coins. Just adding a sticker to indicate if the machine will accept dollar coins would work wonders.

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All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

Turing test failures: 6

Posts: 5481 | From: Decatur, GA | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
RLobinske
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by birdman:
quote:
Originally posted by WildaBeast:
]After looking at the design I just had a horrible thought -- if this coin were to ever completely replace the dollar bill, how long do you think it would be before an email starts circulating claiming this is all part of the athiest liberal agenda to remove God from our currancy?

It will still say "In God We Trust" though -- it will be inscribed on the edge of the coin, along with "E Pluribus Unum" and the year. Neat idea, since the two sides of the coin are already pretty crowded.

-birdman

Don't worry, I've already heard about people concerned about the significance of the word "Liberty" not written anywhere on the coin and only represented by Lady Liberty. [Roll Eyes]
Posts: 296 | From: Crawfordville, Florida | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Do you stop being free if that happens, or something?
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
RLobinske
Deck the Malls


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"It's a symbol we've moved away from Republic to Empire." [Roll Eyes]
Posts: 296 | From: Crawfordville, Florida | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
Do you stop being free if that happens, or something?

Yes. It's a little known codicil in the Shadow Constitution.

--------------------
"He's not gonna let me in, I'm Mr. Dirty Mouth!"
- Jeffrey Coho (Craig Bierko), Boston Legal

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gopher
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Furious:
quote:
Originally posted by birdman:
It will still say "In God We Trust" though -- it will be inscribed on the edge of the coin, along with "E Pluribus Unum" and the year. Neat idea, since the two sides of the coin are already pretty crowded.

If I understand correctly, that sounds similar to the £1 coins, which have various things inscribed on their edges.
Yup, Coins I have at the mo have
"decus et tutamen"
Latin for "An ornament and a safeguard"
"pleidiol wyf i'm cwlad"
Welsh for "True am I to my country"

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Tantei Kijo
The First USA Noel


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When I first was in Japan in 2000 I thought that they didn't have a 1 yen coin because all my first few days' spending was in tourist shops where everything rounded out. It's one of the afore mentioned aluminum coins, so it's super light. The rest of the coins are standard coin metals though.
Japan's smallest bill is a 1,000 yen note (using the crude standard of 100 yen to a dollar, it's a $10 bill). The 100y coins were smaller than quarters, and pretty handy for vending machines.

The best part was the 500y coins, though. I bought one of the comic magazines (a compilation of several artists' works on cheap, lightweight paper and about the size of a phonebook) that was a monthly issue, so it was fairly large compared to the normal ones, with a 500y coin. My (now) husband remarked it was strange to be able to get something that huge for a coin.

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Bender: Though you may have to make a metaphorical "deal with the devil". And by "devil", I mean the robot devil, and by "metaphorically" I mean get your coat. ------------ My sad site: A new way to be bored.

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Brandi
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by WildaBeast:
After looking at the design I just had a horrible thought -- if this coin were to ever completely replace the dollar bill, how long do you think it would be before an email starts circulating claiming this is all part of the athiest liberal agenda to remove God from our currancy?

Already started.
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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by birdman:
The only thing is that those three coins, at least in Canada, are huge. I think the toonie looks really cool, but it sure is large. Also, what if that $6 were all dollar coins? Now I have six.

Oh for the love of money...

I know that trollface mentioned this earlier, but I feel that it is necessary to run the numbers. Here are some dimensions for Canadian currency. I will remind you that a Canadian quarter and US quarter, are well, you can see for yourself :

Coin Thickn/Diameter

US Quarter /0.069"/0.955"

CDN Quarter/0.062"/0.940"
CDN Loonie /0.069"/1.043"
CDN Toonie /0.071"/1.102"

The toonie is the largest being 0.002" thicker and a whopping 0.165" bigger than a US quarter. That is roughly 2.9% thicker and 17% wider. That 17%, however, is about one-sixth of an inch. Or one-sixth of the coin's width. The loonie is even closer to a US quarter. And you call this "huge"? Hardly what I would call "huge".

Exaggeration to make your point is just an example of how arrogant and condescending you are about Canadian currency, or rather, anything that isn't American currency. Bully for you - you don't like it - but you make it sound like your pants had fallen down to your ankles by the sheer weight of the coins you had.

Honestly, if they were that obtrusive, you would have sought to spend them at each and every opportunity. That said, you probably just forgot about it, and are upset that you forgot your money. Too bad - next time you may learn to be smarter. Sour grapes, and nothing more.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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birdman
We Three Blings


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Edited, now that I've had time to look into it

It just so happens that I still have a bag of Canadian coins in my car, so I checked it out: the toonie isn't what I remembered. You're right, it's about the size of a quarter. The coin I'm thinking of was at least an inch and a half in diameter (larger than the old Eisenhower dollars) and had the same type of gold-in-silver feature. I'm not sure what coin I'm confusing it with.

So there you have it. Once again, I've posted something in haste based on a misunderstanding. But don't worry, folks; I only do this once every three months, after I'm reminded why I rarely post here anymore. [Wink] I take back everything I said in this thread.

Except for the bit about selling WhatchamaWallets with change pouches. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time (and I don't mean that sarcastically).

-birdman

Posts: 1104 | From: near Cleveland, Ohio | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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