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Author Topic: Not that I approve of vigilantism, but...
Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
I'm sure that if I'm missing something you will let me know.

Anglrdr even admitted there was more to be read into hers. so, my first assumption was correct.
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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
This isn't just a statement about the vandal, but about the punishment he received at the hands of the vigilantes. So no, it's not just about the kids.

Incorrect, it was a statement about the children nothing more.

That's only clear after 6 pages of follow-up to the initial question. Most of us here aren't clairvoyant.
quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Granted that this all depends on where you live, but in polite society, this is called bragging, and it's not polite.
No, it is call pointing out the obvious. If i was bragging I would tell you what I made which I did not. So, there is nothing impolite about answering why I do not do it full time.
Putting a dollar amount to it makes it pretty clear that you want us to know how well off you are. It would be sufficient (and more efficient - since you claim to be use minimal effort whenever it is warranted) to say that your current full-time occupation is more lucrative than being a police officer.
quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
It implies a certain disdain for even doing this job well, because there is no reward. The more you speak about yourself, the lower you sink.
Wow, that is a logic train wreck. I wonder if you ever actually read what any one else types. The reward is helping the community. I believe so much in it that i do it for FREE.
So you do it for free, but not for $65K per year? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Oh yes, we're supposed to believe that you do this out of the goodness of your heart. (Never mind that you do get paid for court time, at the very least. Oh, sorry, I guess I wasn't supposed to have read that because according to you, I've never read anything.)

Here's a little bit of my opinion here - throwing out brief snippets of vague commentary without clarification is trolling. You got a fight, and maybe you wanted one. What are we all supposed to do - praise you for your intimate knowledge of the specifics of a Citizen's Arrest in California? What does that have to do with the OP, which happened in *Indiana* (to the best of my knowledge)? I don't know what this is all about here, but there's hardly a person in this thread whom you haven't insulted, one way or another. I just can't figure out why...

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
I'm sure that if I'm missing something you will let me know.

Anglrdr even admitted there was more to be read into hers. so, my first assumption as correct.
Ahhh.

So you read into someone else's question aimed towards you, but tell others not to read into your statements. That was actually the point I was making in the previous post.

Regardless of what AnglRdr's intent was, based on your assumptions of how others should read your posts, you should have answered the question instead of reading into it.

--------------------
I swear, it was funnier in my head.
Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Correct me if I'm wrong, but AnglRdr simply explained what prompted her to ask for clarification, not that she purposefully worded her question to put words in Wintermute's mouth.

Or are we supposed to never ask for clarification when we are not sure what exactly another poster means?

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Le champignon arrive.

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
That's only clear after 6 pages of follow-up to the initial question. Most of us here aren't clairvoyant.

Answered on Page 2

quote:
So you do it for free, but not for $65K per year?
that is correct, I will do it free, but not for 65K when I can make a lot more in the private sector.
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Roadie
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
What are we all supposed to do - praise you for your intimate knowledge of the specifics of a Citizen's Arrest in California?

That's giving a bit too much credit. If it were illegal to resist an Citizen's Arrest, it would be in the statute clearly, or there would be case law to cite. I'm still not buying it, particularly after the statements about it being the correctional system's job to punish. When I went to training to be a CO, it was clearly imparted that our job would be "care and custody" - the judge hands out the punishment.

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"The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)

"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus)

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
Regardless of what AnglRdr's intent was, based on your assumptions of how others should read your posts, you should have answered the question instead of reading into it.

No, since the question was not one I wanted to talk about. It is interesting that you think I should answer any question you ask. As a person I have the right to refuse to answer any question that I do not want to answer. If the question is especially pointed then I will use that right not to answer it.
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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but AnglRdr simply explained what prompted her to ask for clarification, not that she purposefully worded her question to put words in Wintermute's mouth.
Or are we supposed to never ask for clarification when we are not sure what exactly another poster means?

It was the pointed way the question was ‘asked’ that clued me in to the path she wanted to take. She was trying to infer that I was condoning the behavior of the adults. So, in page 2, and 3 you will see that my statement was 1) only about the children. 2) was not a response about the adults 3) and the two were not inclusive of each other. Had the question been asked in a proper manner then it would have been answered. Now, this thread is getting a little long winded for me so it is time to move on.
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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but AnglRdr simply explained what prompted her to ask for clarification, not that she purposefully worded her question to put words in Wintermute's mouth.
Or are we supposed to never ask for clarification when we are not sure what exactly another poster means?

It was the pointed way the question was ‘asked’ that clued me in to the path she wanted to take. She was trying to infer that I was condoning the behavior of the adults. So, in page 2, and 3 you will see that my statement was 1) only about the children. 2) was not a response about the adults 3) and the two were not inclusive of each other. Had the question been asked in a proper manner then it would have been answered. Now, this thread is getting a little long winded for me so it is time to move on.
Note to self: In order to get Wintermute to answer a question, be sure to word it exactly the way he wants it to be phrased. Otherwise, prepare to have to go through 6 pages, several re-phrases of the question by other posters, several personal attacks, accusations of distorting the topic, and many strawmen until he finally is happy with a random poster's wording of the question before he will answer the original question. Got it.

Glad we cleared that up. [fish]

--------------------
I swear, it was funnier in my head.
Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but AnglRdr simply explained what prompted her to ask for clarification, not that she purposefully worded her question to put words in Wintermute's mouth.
Or are we supposed to never ask for clarification when we are not sure what exactly another poster means?

It was the pointed way the question was ‘asked’ that clued me in to the path she wanted to take. She was trying to infer that I was condoning the behavior of the adults. So, in page 2, and 3 you will see that my statement was 1) only about the children. 2) was not a response about the adults 3) and the two were not inclusive of each other. Had the question been asked in a proper manner then it would have been answered. Now, this thread is getting a little long winded for me so it is time to move on.
Note to self: In order to get Wintermute to answer a question, be sure to word it exactly the way he wants it to be phrased. Otherwise, prepare to have to go through 6 pages, several re-phrases of the question by other posters, several personal attacks, accusations of distorting the topic, and many strawmen until he finally is happy with a random poster's wording of the question before he will answer the original question. Got it.
I think I have to agree. I hate to use such a strong word, but I think that it's utter cowardice to refuse to answer a question in a public forum like this - unless, of course, it's a very personal question. By that I mean asking someone how much money they earn, where they specifically live, any crimes they have committed, how often they and their SO have sex, etc. Entering into a conversation about a vigilante action doesn't even remotely enter into the world of intimate and personal.

What's that phrase again - don't poke the bear?

--------------------
"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Matt H.
Deck the Malls


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From the Walnut Creek PD website, for competencies of their officers:

quote:
Leadership

Demonstrates in a positive, constructive way the ability to influence, direct, and guide individuals or groups to participate in, be committed to, and support the organization’s vision and goals. Takes personal accountability to develop self and others through coaching, mentoring and providing growth opportunities. Achieves targeted results and holds others accountable to do so.

Resistance to Stress

Consistently meets performance expectations under stressful conditions and exerts calming influences.

Written and Oral Communication

Effectively, concisely and accurately communicates in a respectful manner with sufficient information to support sound analysis and decision making.

Interpersonal Skills and Conflict Resolution

Builds positive relationships and collaborative partnerships by involving others and interacting with them in a way that respects their individual differences. Resolves conflicts by achieving mutually agreeable solutions.

Capacity for Change

Constantly seeks opportunities to improve individual and team effectiveness by identifying and adopting new ideas, techniques and tools to achieve organizational vision and goals. The individual enthusiastically, focuses on the positive aspects associated with change.


And Wintermute got hired how?

I'm not buying that he's involved in any type of law enforcement...his comment about the responsibility of interpretation of stautes shows either that he thinks police have more power than they really do, or he is clueless.

Given his history, I'm going with the latter.

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"Who needs the Bible? I've got this magic 8-ball."

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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So, this will be my last post in yhis thread.
So, Matt answer these two questions.
1) Where did I say I was a reserve for Walnut Creek?
2) Where is my interpretation of the law incorrect?
Sadly, like normal you will not be able to back up your idiotic claims. If you had a point you would be able to back it up which oddly no one here can do.

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
So, this will be my last post in yhis thread.
So, Matt answer these two questions.
1) Where did I say I was a reserve for Walnut Creek?
2) Where is my interpretation of the law incorrect?
Sadly, like normal you will not be able to back up your idiotic claims. If you had a point you would be able to back it up which oddly no one here can do.

Wintermute's profile reads "Walnut Creek, CA" for his location. He also said this...

quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
He is not a citizen - he is a law enforcement officer, though he does not clearly admit this. He is biased. He does not approach this topic as a citizen, but as an officer of the law.

I am a citizen police officer. I am a full time manager in the telecommunications industry, and a reserve police officer.[/qbuote]

Either Wintermute is splitting hairs about his *precise* police employer being somewhere close to Walnut Creek (but not Walnut Creek proper), or Wintermute is a pathological liar, and he really isn't *and never has been* employed in law enforcement *or* medicine, and we can't believe anything he says. I'm starting to have my doubts that he's even from California, is 30 years old, and makes so much money (as a telecommunications industry manager) that $65K is a "drastic" cut in pay.

And now he's running away from this thread. Maybe this little bit of evidence may get his attention.

--------------------
"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
I'm starting to have my doubts that he's even from California, is 30 years old, and makes so much money (as a telecommunications industry manager) that $65K is a "drastic" cut in pay.
And now he's running away from this thread. Maybe this little bit of evidence may get his attention.

I am not running a away mike, but this thread has ceased to have any value. You, along with others are not backing up any claims, you are just acting like retarded children. So, to put it quite bluntly I am being the adult and walking away.
So, Mike can you backup where I said I was a walnut creek reserve? It is not petty, but the matter of the issue that you and other make crazy assumptions that are incorrect. I live and work in Walnut Creek, but I am a reserve in another city.
Do I care if you think I am 31? Live in California? or even live in Walnut Creek? or how much I make? Nope, I could careless. I know these facts to be true, and the people that know me in real life know these facts to be true. So, if a few crazy people on the internet do not believe they why should I care? So, unless you can try to actually being up a point then yes, I am walking away. Maybe by doing that I can spare you a little dignity.

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Walnut Creek doesn't have much use for reserve police officers. It is one of the safest communities in this area. Maybe even the state.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
I'm starting to have my doubts that he's even from California, is 30 years old, and makes so much money (as a telecommunications industry manager) that $65K is a "drastic" cut in pay.
And now he's running away from this thread. Maybe this little bit of evidence may get his attention.

I am not running a away mike, but this thread has ceased to have any value. You, along with others are not backing up any claims, you are just acting like retarded children. So, to put it quite bluntly I am being the adult and walking away.
So, Mike can you backup where I said I was a walnut creek reserve? It is not petty, but the matter of the issue that you and other make crazy assumptions that are incorrect. I live and work in Walnut Creek, but I am a reserve in another city.
Do I care if you think I am 31? Live in California? or even live in Walnut Creek? or how much I make? Nope, I could careless. I know these facts to be true, and the people that know me in real life know these facts to be true. So, if a few crazy people on the internet do not believe they why should I care? So, unless you can try to actually being up a point then yes, I am walking away. Maybe by doing that I can spare you a little dignity.

First and foremost, I don't care how much money you make. I never asked this - you brought it up and put a dollar figure to it. To what end, I don't know. I can only assume that it is to boast.

But then, why is it so important that that we know that you don't work in Walnut Creek? All you seem to care about is picking on the details of what you lead people to believe, then proceed to play the denial game. Is it really, *really* that important that you work as a reserve officer in Walnut Creek, or Lafayette, or Danville, or Alamo, or Pleasant Hill, or Concord, or some other less noteworthy town in California?

Anyway, it kind of goes like this...

First you threatened to charge me with a crime. Then you say "when did I say I was a law enforcement officer?". Is this a denial of my assumption, or are you going back to your boastful threats of charging me with a crime. Yet much later, you claim that you are a reserve officer. I don't need any more evidence to see that you're a liar - and an irresponsible one at that. Do you deny what you said? Or have you gone back and edited all your posts in this thread?

Dignity? There is no dignity in lies.

You're the one who keeps being asked questions, lies, denies, obfuscates, and hides behind a strawman because you aren't willing to debate a point. Once again, I'll point out that you have lashed out unprovoked at some very clever people who have called you out on some of these questionable statements - like your juggling of three careers and expertise in all of them, not to mention that you claim to be only a part-time, unpaid, reserve officer. And yet you threaten to charge me with a crime.

What does California law say about threats made by an officer? How about abuse of authority? How about impersonating an officer?

--------------------
"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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How about giving us your name (or at least) badge number if you're a real police officer? You've gone around and around on all of this. Prove it if you are, and stop telling us to call you on it when you say something. It's getting old.

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Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I think that is out of line, B&D. Notwithstanding Wintermute's resistance to answer questions, I think it is inappropriate to be that intrusive into his personal life.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Sylvanz
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I think that is out of line, B&D. Notwithstanding Wintermute's resistance to answer questions, I think it is inappropriate to be that intrusive into his personal life.

Well, AnglRdr I agree with you we cannot and should not ask Wintermute to prove all his claims though some of the claims seem...to appear a bit questionable. No one needs to supply such personal information on this bb
(though he does seem anxious for us to know he makes lots of money.) However, as he so helpfully pointed out, those of us who daring to question him are acting like, "retarded children" (now isn't that a phrase that an ex-"medical professional" would use?) so how could we be expected to know any better? [Wink]

P&LL, Syl

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I think that is out of line, B&D. Notwithstanding Wintermute's resistance to answer questions, I think it is inappropriate to be that intrusive into his personal life.

By law, if asked, an officer is supposed to provide name and badge number. It's not personal if I ask his badge number and his precinct, now is it? I'd ask anyone claiming to be an officer in that manner to prove it. He could PM it to me if he was so worried about privacy issues. I'm not so stupid that I would spread it out everywhere. I'm not asking for his home address and his full name. Just a badge and a office.

He is the one who has made the claim that he's an "officer of the law." If he is, he shouldn't have any problem proving that he is. If he isn't, he should shush about being one and stop threatening others with his "power."

--B&D

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My blog

Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I think it is rude to ask someone where they work in am open forum. We don't ask other people to prove they are really librarians, teachers, students, doctors, lawyers, or indian chiefs by saying where they work and posting their credentials. Also I think you only have the right to demand a badge number if you are in an official interaction with an officer. I don't think a fight in a message board counts as an official interaction.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
I think it is rude to ask someone where they work in am open forum. We don't ask other people to prove they are really librarians, teachers, students, doctors, lawyers, or indian chiefs by saying where they work and posting their credentials. Also I think you only have the right to demand a badge number if you are in an official interaction with an officer. I don't think a fight in a message board counts as an official interaction.

On the other hand I do think when someone has gone out of their way over time to claim expertise in two quite disparate fields (medicine and law enforcement) and then asserts that he earns big money in a third quite separate field I think it's understandable that questions along the "yeah well prove it then buddy" lines are going to be asked.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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What would posting a badge number and department prove?
We would still have to trust that the poster was telling the truth. We aren't there to physically examine the badge, examine a photo id and match the badge, the ID and the person. Do we need to set up an ID and credential verification business for verifying snopesters identities?
If you don't want to believe someone, don't. I just don't see what the usefullness of demanding someones credentials is in a setting like this. If you are already a dyed in the wool skeptic what good is to have unverifiable proof like a persons statement?

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
He is the one who has made the claim that he's an "officer of the law." If he is, he shouldn't have any problem proving that he is. If he isn't, he should shush about being one and stop threatening others with his "power."

B&D, consider where you are: wintermute's threat to arrest you because he may-or-may-not-be some cop somewhere carries just as much weight on this thread as my threatening to ground you because I'm a mom.

wintermute ain't the law 'round here, snopes is.

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
What would posting a badge number and department prove?
We would still have to trust that the poster was telling the truth. We aren't there to physically examine the badge, examine a photo id and match the badge, the ID and the person. Do we need to set up an ID and credential verification business for verifying snopesters identities?
If you don't want to believe someone, don't. I just don't see what the usefullness of demanding someones credentials is in a setting like this. If you are already a dyed in the wool skeptic what good is to have unverifiable proof like a persons statement?

A badge number and precinct can be verified. If he has those two things, the fact that he's an officer can be proven. You can call the precinct and ask if someone with that badge number and name is working there. If he can't produce those things or takes high offense at being asked to, then I really have doubts as to him being an officer.

If he claims to be learned in the law, that's one thing. That doesn't need to be verified. But it's quite another to say that you are an officer when you're not and that you're going to arrest someone (even if he has no authority to do so on this board). That's called impersonation of an officer and is against the law.

I've not seen anyone quite so reluctant to tell the straight truth and get so offended when his credentials (or arguments) were challenged. Pardon me if I'd just like him to tell the truth and be straight for once (and stop insulting others so rashly when he doesn't like their point of view).

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Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

Posts: 2366 | From: Harrisonburg, Virginia | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
He is the one who has made the claim that he's an "officer of the law." If he is, he shouldn't have any problem proving that he is. If he isn't, he should shush about being one and stop threatening others with his "power."

B&D, consider where you are: wintermute's threat to arrest you because he may-or-may-not-be some cop somewhere carries just as much weight on this thread as my threatening to ground you because I'm a mom.

wintermute ain't the law 'round here, snopes is.

Four Kitties

I do understand that. However, he puts others down and ridicules them because they don't have his "knowledge" or expertise in these fields. IMO I think he should put his money where his mouth is and prove that he has the right to claim the expertise.

Also, the introduction to the rules said we must act civilly towards one another. While all of us get mad at times on here, and start arguments all the time, Wintermute has managed to insult just about everyone on this thread--calling us dumb, stupid, retarded, and questioning our intelligence multiple times. That's not acting civil in my book.

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Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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So hit the "Report Post" button then.

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
So hit the "Report Post" button then.

On which one? He did it so many times.

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Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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On any one you think is particularly egregious. The mods aren't stupid: they'll read the thread if their attention is brought to it.

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Think of the Report Post button as the Bat Signal [Smile]

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
I think it is rude to ask someone where they work in am open forum. We don't ask other people to prove they are really librarians, teachers, students, doctors, lawyers, or indian chiefs by saying where they work and posting their credentials. Also I think you only have the right to demand a badge number if you are in an official interaction with an officer. I don't think a fight in a message board counts as an official interaction.

Since I don't believe Wintermute has a badge (except one he got in a cereal box), this is really moot. And while I don't think that people need to prove their credentials, this is an odd and special case which we have.

With all due respect, I think that it is particularly difficult if someone claims to be a police officer. There are very few professions which carry any kind of influence - and a police officer is one of them. I might be an engineer, but I have no authority over you, even if you tell me that your house wiring is not to code. I may have expertise, but I don't have authority. A police officer *does* have authority over certain indiscretions.

I've read about people calling up the police with a question - like asking the speed limit in a certain construction zone. If they freely admit what speed they were travelling, and it happens to be over the limit, this is considered a confession and a ticket is issued. If it is a more serious offence, the person can expect further action, including arrest.

I know this board is generally anonymous, but numerous people here discuss and admit to various illegal activities - not the least of which are software/music piracy, illegal drug use, speeding, and illegal sexual activity (i.e. some have admitted to having sex when they were below the age of consent). Some people here post enough information that a clever person could find them. While practically, not much can come of this, I would still feel uncomfortable if one of my "anonymous" confessions incited a threat from a police officer. Let's say for a minute that I did live in California near Wintermute. This isn't impossible - millions live in the Bay area not far from Walnut Creek. I wouldn't feel comfortable if he was really an officer, *and* he had made threats to arrest me, *and* he lived nearby. The mere act of threatening implies a willingness to be inappropriate at best, and abusing his position of authority at worst.

I agree with Four Kitties about the weight of the threat being almost zero - but it is rude and inappropriate. I think serious threats of any kind in a public forum are inappropriate.

In any case, the point is moot because I live in Canada, far away from the long arm of California law, and I don't believe Wintermute is a real cop any more than I believe George W. Bush will be re-elected for a third term.

And if Four Kitties can threaten to ground someone because she's a mom, can I ground someone because I'm an electrical engineer? [fish]

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Sylvanz
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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B&D, personally, yes, I find Wintermute is dismissive, insufferable, and insulting. I simply cannot flatter him by taking him seriously because I think he is almost as full of crap as he is of himself. [Wink] I find his blustering rather amusing, and I don't take his poorly written insults of me, or other posters whom I respect (as opposed to him) seriously at all.

P&LL, Syl

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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DOn't hold back Sylanz tell us what you really think of him [Big Grin] .

For me this reminds me of that James Randi quote (paraphasing): "If you make extraordinary claims you should be able to back them up." Otherwise knock it off.

Chris "...now let me tell you about the time I won the Miss Canada beauty pageant, it was the same year I was shortlisted for the Nobel Prize for Literature..." tie

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Sylvanz
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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But you see Christie I'd probably believe you. [Wink]

P&LL, Syl

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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Kieran
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I'm new, and I actually registered solely because of this thread. [Smile]

It hits a little close to home right now -- because a roving gang of teenage boys (12 - 18) have been torturing animals, breaking into cars, throwing rocks at passing traffic and destroying our complex property. It's always the same kids. They don't even live here, but it's become a favorite hangout for them.

I've confronted them several times and asked them to leave, and they have laughed at me and actually redoubled their mischief in the neighbourhood after I did so.

I have called the police no less than 6 times. Every time but the last, nothing was done. Finally, the kids were caught in the act, directly confronted by the cops and were...

Arrested for trespassing?
Arrested for mischief?
Arrested for theft?

...warned.

Guess what? They're still here.

There is little more frustrating than seeing the neighbourhood you have worked so hard to keep clean and safe (the gardens you have tended, the animals you have fostered, etc.) being crapped all over by kids who the law can, more or less, not do more than a slap on the wrist to -- and the parents? Not Their Problem.

Have I considered vigilantism? Yes, absolutely, and I am a law-abiding, pregnant, settled woman.

***

Now, that said, I don't think the adults in the OP scenario behaved lawfully -- but I can't say that I blame them, to be truthful. Even if those particular teens were not repeat offenders, if others had been chronically causing mischief in the neighbourhood the fuse can get pretty short and the distinction of "but are you sure that is the same kid who..." can get blurry. I would have been firmly on the side of the "the older men were out of line!" posters before my own experience; now I'm not so sure. YMMV.

I think it should also be noted that the parents who would be incensed and enraged if such an indignity happened to their child probably would not be the ones raising children who would be prone to disrespecting others' property and causing mischief.

-Kieran

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