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Author Topic: Not that I approve of vigilantism, but...
Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
Are you a really a doctor, or is this a vague reference specifically intended to mislead us into thinking you are more than what you are?

This has already been answered in another thread. Personally, I am not sure what it has to do with this thread.
quote:
In other words, you're not a real cop, and I doubt that you're a real doctor.
LOL.. so how am I not a real cop? I am a sworn officer the same as a full time officer. the only difference is that I am only paid for court time.
So, Hero_Mike in your eyes what would make someone a real cop vs a non-real copy?

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Sylvanz
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:No, I call it stalking because you go from thread to thread and add nothing but trying to fling personal insults. So, if you think I am incorrect about something then prove it. Of course since you can’t you try to make personal attacks instead. So, I am challenging you to add some real value to a thread. So, instead of focusing on me, why not focus on the topic? Maybe, you will add something interesting to a thread. I doubt it, but here is your chance to prove me wrong.
Do please explain to me where I "personally attacked" you. I merely made the observation that you seem to be very well informed about two different professions and wondered what one you would take up next. If you will also so note that I made my comments regarding the op earlier in the thread. I have no idea whether or not you are correct or incorrect regarding arcane bits of California law nor did I try to "prove you wrong" or right. Frankly I don't care but if I did I would have researched it and called you on it. I just remembered somethings you had said a long time ago about being in the medical profession and I asked you about it. I had no idea that you had added law enforcement to your resume. You are just a bit touchy aren't you?

P&LL, Syl

--------------------
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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Hero_Mike
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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
Are you a really a doctor, or is this a vague reference specifically intended to mislead us into thinking you are more than what you are?

This has already been answered in another thread. Personally, I am not sure what it has to do with this thread.
quote:
In other words, you're not a real cop, and I doubt that you're a real doctor.
LOL.. so how am I not a real cop? I am a sworn officer the same as a full time officer. the only difference is that I am only paid for court time.
So, Hero_Mike in your eyes what would make someone a real cop vs a non-real copy?

See, this is exactly the point about you being vague, defensive, and hiding behind things being irrelevant. You want to make life difficult and make *me* search for the answer to you being a doctor. Nice. I suppose that 95% of posts on this board could read "The truth is out there - go find it" and be correct.

Answer the questions and don't try to hide. Except that you're hoping to confuse us and discourage us from knowing the truth.

And it is very relevant - if you are posting so-called "fact" based upon trumped up credentials, then we'll have to take your posts with a grain of salt. In fact, so many grains of salt that I'd be at immediate risk for a heart attack.

You aren't a "real" cop because you do it part-time. This isn't your regular job, and you don't work as many hours at it to gain the requisite amount of experience and respect as would be for someone who does it full time. Put it this way - I give more credit to a full-time soldier than someone in the national guard (the stereotypical "weekend warrior") when it comes to military matters.

--------------------
"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Sylvanz:
I just remembered somethings you had said a long time ago about being in the medical profession and I asked you about it. I had no idea that you had added law enforcement to your resume. You are just a bit touchy aren't you?

Well, I will pretend you are trying to have a serious conversation so I will honor it. In 2001 after the terrorist attacks I looked internally and said what am I doing to make America a better place? I had always done a lot of volunteer work for groups such as the Red Cross, Amnesty international, and the ACLU, but I found myself being drawn to amore active role. So, when I moved to California I decided to get involved with law enforcement on the side. People that know me said I would be a great fit. I am intelligent, fair and even tempered. So, I signed up for classes in the night and weekends to make it happen. I now volunteer as a reserve in very rough part of town in the hopes to make it a better place. Now, since I doubt you have read the whole thread I will clue you in on my beliefs. I believe law enforcement is there is help the public. They are not there to abuse the public or to punish the public. They are there to enforce the spirit of the law, and to conform to community standards when feasible. The people in the community should look to the police department as fair, dependable, and as a role model.
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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Sylvanz:
I just remembered somethings you had said a long time ago about being in the medical profession and I asked you about it.

And you did it in a tone that was worthy of a Fo2 snarkpost. All plausibly deniable innuendo. I award you your Fo2-fu Yellow Belt and the rank of 'Adept.' [lol]

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Salamander
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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
Your first post in this thread asked if the kids had "learned their lesson" and will not repeat their act of vandalism.

Ok this whole top part just looks like blah blah blah *my name is Mike and I have mental issues* blah blah Blah
So, most of your rant is either incorrect personal attacks that you can not backup, or you misunderstanding of life in general. I will answer you below questions if nothing else for entertainment.

quote:
1) Do you believe the vigilantes actions were justified? If so, what part of their actions? Should they have stopped before inflicting their own brand of punishment on the alleged vandal?
Already asked and answered, but since you have a problem with reading I will sum it up nicely.

NO, their actions were not proper.


quote:
2) Do you think the vigilantes committed any crime in the process of what they did?
Yes. They crossed the line.

quote:
2A) What if they had caught the wrong person?
It does not matter if they had the correct person or not. their actions were not a CA. they were jacking with the kids for fun.

quote:
2B) What if the alleged vandal was female and they too were made to strip?
Why would a female make their actions any less wrong or right?

quote:
3) If the wrong person was caught by the vigilantes, should they have had the right to defend themselves?
Since the vigilantes were not doing a CA the children had every right to defend themselves from a being assaulted.


quote:
4) Should the vigilantes be liable for any harm that came to the vandals, even if they believed all along that they were right?
This was not a CA but even under a CA you are still liable for your actions. The law gives you the right to enact the arrest. It does not give you the power to beat someone for fun. You can only use the force required to enact the arrest. You step over the line you are still criminally liable for your actions.


quote:
5) If the vigilantes were wrong or harmed the vandals, can they be held liable in civil court for any damage or injury?
Yes, if they are right they can still be held civilly liable.

quote:
6) If the alleged vandal was indeed innocent, and defended themselves during their false detainment, what if the conflict escalated to deadly force?
The courts would have to sort that one out. I am not even sure of the real question. Is the question, could the person arresting be held criminally and civilly liable? yes. They are only protected against criminal prosecution if they follow the law. Even then they can be arrested, cited, etc. It would be the courts job to determine if they went overboard.
I have never hid behind a cowardly excuse, but your lack of understanding of the laws is mind boggling.

Now if you'd bothered to reply directly like that in the beginning when AnglRdr asked you if you felt their actions were justified, I would never have felt the need to make any sort of comment.

Instead, you straw man'd and ad hominem'd your way thru several pages. [Roll Eyes]

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"victory thru self-deception"

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
Now if you'd bothered to reply directly like that in the beginning when AnglRdr asked you if you felt their actions were justified, I would never have felt the need to make any sort of comment.

Her questions was not a real question. She was trying to imply I said something I did not. If you look this statements I answered for Mike they are the same answers I gave before. So, my suggestion is in the future you read and understand the thread before going on a personal rant.
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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
Now if you'd bothered to reply directly like that in the beginning when AnglRdr asked you if you felt their actions were justified, I would never have felt the need to make any sort of comment.

Her questions was not a real question. She was trying to imply I said something I did not. If you look this statements I answered for Mike they are the same answers I gave before. So, my suggestion is in the future you read and understand the thread before going on a personal rant.
Really?

Hero_Mike asked:
quote:
1) Do you believe the vigilantes actions were justified? If so, what part of their actions? Should they have stopped before inflicting their own brand of punishment on the alleged vandal?
You answered:
quote:
Already asked and answered, but since you have a problem with reading I will sum it up nicely.

NO, their actions were not proper.

When Anglrdr asked you:
quote:
Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?
Your response was:
quote:
Nice strawman AnglRdr.
And that was on the first page!

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Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?

Your response was:
quote:
Nice strawman AnglRdr.
And that was on the first page! [/QB][/QUOTE]
That is because my first statement had nothing to the do with the adults. So, it is a strawman to imply my comment about the children some how reflects on the behavior of the adults. So, you missed the important first statement that I made
quote:
Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?
So, where does it say the actions of the adults were proper?
Hence, why I asnwered her with the statement I did. Wondering if the children learned their lession has nothing to do witht he actions of the adults. So, when Chloe asked if I thought the adults acted properly, I said no since that is a valid question.

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Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
Her questions was not a real question. She was trying to imply I said something I did not. If you look this statements I answered for Mike they are the same answers I gave before. So, my suggestion is in the future you read and understand the thread before going on a personal rant.

Okay... having re-read the entire thread yet again, here are the only two relevant comments I can find from you:
quote:
Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?
quote:
The behavior of the three men was inappropriate at best.
(emphasis mine)
The problem with that "at best" is that the phrase is usually used to indicate that the speaker feels that this is a stretch and that that in reality or most likely situation, it would be less than that (ie not inappropriate at all).

Had you given AnglRdr your response to Mike's questions 1 & 2 ("Their actions were not proper, they crossed the line") right back at the beginning, I believe that would have been the end of it. That opinion is entirely hypothetical of course.

And again, you've managed to straw man me by accusing me of not reading the entire thread. It'd be nice if you could find a way to reply to me and not include an ad hominem or straw man.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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I will assure you that my question *was* a real question, a point which I made perfectly clear back on page 1.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
Her questions was not a real question. She was trying to imply I said something I did not. If you look this statements I answered for Mike they are the same answers I gave before. So, my suggestion is in the future you read and understand the thread before going on a personal rant.

Okay... having re-read the entire thread yet again, here are the only two relevant comments I can find from you:
quote:
Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?
quote:
The behavior of the three men was inappropriate at best.
(emphasis mine)
The problem with that "at best" is that the phrase is usually used to indicate that the speaker feels that this is a stretch and that that in reality or most likely situation, it would be less than that (ie not inappropriate at all).

Had you given AnglRdr your response to Mike's questions 1 & 2 ("Their actions were not proper, they crossed the line") right back at the beginning, I believe that would have been the end of it. That opinion is entirely hypothetical of course.

And again, you've managed to straw man me by accusing me of not reading the entire thread. It'd be nice if you could find a way to reply to me and not include an ad hominem or straw man.

quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
The problem with that "at best" is that the phrase is usually used to indicate that the speaker feels that this is a stretch and that that in reality or most likely situation, it would be less than that (ie not inappropriate at all).

At best means that at the very best their actions were improper, and possibly criminal.
I never answered her question because she I never made the statement. I never said their actions were in anyway proper so I was not going to defend something I never said.
Actually, accusing you of not reading the thread is neither a strawman or a ad hominem. It is an opinion. We will get you hip on these phrases by the end of the month I promise you.

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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
That is because my first statement had nothing to the do with the adults. So, it is a strawman to imply my comment about the children some how reflects on the behavior of the adults. So, you missed the important first statement that I made

No, I think you missed the point of the question. Anglrdr asked you specifically about the adults. Not the children and their actions. So your "comment about the children" should have had no effect on the answer to this simple question. Your answer of "strawman" implies that you did not wish to discuss the adults' actions.

quote:
quote:
Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?
So, where does it say the actions of the adults were proper?


It doesn't. So no one is allowed to switch topics in the middle of a post and ask a simple question that was in relation to the topic? Anglrdr didn't say you believed that the actions of the adults were proper. That was why she asked you how you felt about them.

quote:
Hence, why I asnwered her with the statement I did. Wondering if the children learned their lession has nothing to do witht he actions of the adults. So, when Chloe asked if I thought the adults acted properly, I said no since that is a valid question.
So was Anglrdr's.

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I swear, it was funnier in my head.
Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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Wintermute, I never asked you to defend something you did not say. I never intimated that you *did* say it. I asked you if you thought the adults' actions were okay. If you feel there is some sort of accusation in that, perhaps you need to step back and gain some perspective.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?
I am not a WM apologist, but the way this was phrased does imply that you thought he was saying that the adults were justified in their actions.

If you had left out the "really" it would not have had that tone.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
No, I think you missed the point of the question. Anglrdr asked you specifically about the adults. Not the children and their actions. So your "comment about the children" should have had no effect on the answer to this simple question. Your answer of "strawman" implies that you did not wish to discuss the adults' actions.

It was a statement more then it was a question.

quote:
Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?
Since i never said their actions were justified then statement "do you really seems" to imply I said that. If it had been a question it would have been phrased," what do you think of the actions of the adults?" or along those lines. So if Anglrdr really wanted to ask a question she would not have done it in a pointed manner. She would have asked a question.


quote:
Anglrdr didn't say you believed that the actions of the adults were proper. That was why she asked you how you felt about them.
"do you really" seems to infer that i said something to support that statement.
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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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Here is what Wintermute said:
quote:
Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?
The inference I drew from WM's comment was that he did think the adults were justified, but I did not know for sure, so I asked. Which I said nearly 2 months ago.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Sylvanz
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Wintermute, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question regarding your change of careers. However, this:
quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:Now, since I doubt you have read the whole thread I will clue you in on my beliefs.
bothers me a tad. Why do you assume I've not read the whole thread? Now I admit, unlike Salamander whom I bow to for his endurance, I have not reread the thread, but I assure you I've read the entire thing. That is why I came back when I noted, in the active topics page, that it had been resurrected. It just struck me at that time that you were well versed in the law when before you had been a knowledgeable health care professional.

I'm afraid my "stalking" must be a bit on the weak side because somehow in my exhaustive fact finding about you the change in your careers had escaped my obsessive notice. I suppose we'll have to chalk that up to how very "slow" I am. Now where is that drooling smilely when I need it?

quote:
Originally posted by First of Boo:And you did it in a tone that was worthy of a Fo2 snarkpost. All plausibly deniable innuendo. I award you your Fo2-fu Yellow Belt and the rank of 'Adept.'
Is this a good thing...? [Wink]

P&LL, Syl

--------------------
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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Bored and Dangerous
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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
No, I think you missed the point of the question. Anglrdr asked you specifically about the adults. Not the children and their actions. So your "comment about the children" should have had no effect on the answer to this simple question. Your answer of "strawman" implies that you did not wish to discuss the adults' actions.

It was a statement more then it was a question.

quote:
Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?
Since i never said their actions were justified then statement "do you really seems" to imply I said that. If it had been a question it would have been phrased," what do you think of the actions of the adults?" or along those lines. So if Anglrdr really wanted to ask a question she would not have done it in a pointed manner. She would have asked a question.


quote:
Anglrdr didn't say you believed that the actions of the adults were proper. That was why she asked you how you felt about them.
"do you really" seems to infer that i said something to support that statement.

Holding this small snippet of conversation up to the light as demonstration of Wintermute's typical post, I have this comment:

Puncuation and spelling are important to conversation. Spelling correctly and using punctuation correctly is even more important.

If Wintermute is really a doctor and a cop, 1) he should demonstrate that he knows how to spell and punctuate better because cops and doctors fill out an inordinate amount of paperwork and need to be correct in all aspects and 2)he should try to communicate in a clearer manner because ad hominem arguments and forgetting words in the middle of sentences doesn't work well in real life.

--B&D

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
If Wintermute is really a doctor and a cop, 1) he should demonstrate that he knows how to spell and punctuate better because cops and doctors fill out an inordinate amount of paperwork and need to be correct in all aspects

Yes, because Wintermute has never grasped the concept of work in vs return. When something is not important a person will spend less time doing it, and not worry as much about accuary. So, if Wintermute does not spend the extra 1 minute proof reading to please the bugged eyeed monster, then wintermute is aware he will will have typographical errors. Which he may come back and correct or may leave them as is. It is the whole concept of time management.

quote:
and 2)he should try to communicate in a clearer manner because ad hominem arguments and forgetting words in the middle of sentences doesn't work well in real life.
Ahhh... seems to have worked just great for me. Once again when I am hurried and typing I let things slide. I have even pointed that out before that responding here is not always on the top of my list, and I will balance the time vs the effort. Thanks for the education and job advice though. May, I strive to be as successful as you though.
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Sylvanz
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Ah B&D using correct grammar and punctuation is one thing, but understanding the simple utilitarian beauty of a question mark is another thing all together. However, I suppose if you pretend to not know how question marks work you can claim a question is a statement when you avoid answering it...Brilliant!

P&LL, Syl

--------------------
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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Wintermute
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylvanz:
However, I suppose if you pretend to not know how question marks work you can claim a question is a statement when you avoid answering it...Brilliant!

Psssttt...Pssstt... Sylvanz, AnglRdr already confirmed my point.
quote:
The inference I drew from WM's comment was that he did think the adults were justified, but I did not know for sure, so I asked.
So, yes it was more of a statement then a question.
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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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When you ask something, you usually do it in the form of a question. That is what AnglRdr did. Pulling some lame word game to imply that AnglRdr didn't ask you a question that you choose to ignore still doesn't change the fact that this thread could have been 6 pages shorter and died two months ago if you had just answered her question (and the exact same question asked of you by more posters) when it was asked and not 5 pages later because someone worded it the exact way you wanted it to be before you answered it.

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I swear, it was funnier in my head.
Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
If Wintermute is really a doctor and a cop, 1) he should demonstrate that he knows how to spell and punctuate better because cops and doctors fill out an inordinate amount of paperwork and need to be correct in all aspects

Yes, because Wintermute has never grasped the concept of work in vs return. When something is not important a person will spend less time doing it, and not worry as much about accuary. So, if Wintermute does not spend the extra 1 minute proof reading to please the bugged eyeed monster, then wintermute is aware he will will have typographical errors. Which he may come back and correct or may leave them as is. It is the whole concept of time management.

quote:
and 2)he should try to communicate in a clearer manner because ad hominem arguments and forgetting words in the middle of sentences doesn't work well in real life.
Ahhh... seems to have worked just great for me. Once again when I am hurried and typing I let things slide. I have even pointed that out before that responding here is not always on the top of my list, and I will balance the time vs the effort. Thanks for the education and job advice though. May, I strive to be as successful as you though.

So you're saying doing things correctly isn't important? If you take that attitude towards your two occupations, it's no wonder that you're only part time. Also, the return on your poor grammar and spelling is that people either don't read what you have to say because they don't want to wade through it or they think you are of lesser intelligence because you can't form a complete sentence. I hope your "return" is worth it.

Forsaking clarity for "time management" is NFBSK if people don't understand you. You've wasted their time (screwing up their "time management")if they have take the time to decipher what you've said because you couldn't bother to take one minute to proofread and spell check what you typed. If your time is that valuable, I'm surprised you have a chance to pee during the day. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if you are less than accurate in your occupations as well.

As for success? I'll never reach your level of success in the ad hominem and strawman arguments. I marvel at them.

--B&D

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My blog

Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
So you're saying doing things correctly isn't important?[SM] If you take that attitude towards your two occupations, it's no wonder that you're only part time.[AHm1] Also, the return on your poor grammar and spelling is that people either don't read what you have to say because they don't want to wade through it or they think you are of lesser intelligence because you can't form a complete sentence. I hope your "return" is worth it.

Forsaking clarity for "time management" is NFBSK if people don't understand you. You've wasted their time (screwing up their "time management")if they have take the time to decipher what you've said because you couldn't bother to take one minute to proofread and spell check what you typed. If your time is that valuable, I'm surprised you have a chance to pee during the day. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if you are less than accurate in your occupations as well.
[AHm2]

As for success? I'll never reach your level of success in the ad hominem and strawman arguments. I marvel at them.

--B&D

Don't sell yourself short on your Ad Hominem and strawman abilities, you've managed to get one strawman and two Ad Hominems in that post of yours.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
If you take that attitude towards your two occupations, it's no wonder that you're only part time.

Maybe you missed it but I work as a reserve is because the starting pay on a police officer is to low. In the area I live in a police officer starts off at about 65,000. I am not prepared to take a massive pay cut such as that at this point in time.

quote:
orsaking clarity for "time management" is NFBSK if people don't understand you.
My point was clear and precise. It was only dealing with the children and stated as such. Can you please go back and show me where I mentioned the adults. So, go back in the thread and show me where I created the confusion. Since you can not show where I said jack crap about the adults you retort to personal attacks, which honestly I find more humor in then anything. So, yes, my job comes before arguing with you. I know this may shock you but people with real jobs have to produce real results. When you get older you will understand.

quote:
As for success? I'll never reach your level of success in the ad hominem and strawman arguments. I marvel at them.
I have to find the irony is that you showed up in this thread to only make personal attacks on me. You marvel at them? You have surpassed them in everyway.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
Pulling some lame word game to imply that AnglRdr didn't ask you a question that you choose to ignore still doesn't change the fact that this thread could have been 6 pages shorter and died two months ago if you had just answered her question (and the exact same question asked of you by more posters) when it was asked and not 5 pages later because someone worded it the exact way you wanted it to be before you answered it.

Vanilla, hate to break it to you, but it was asked and answered about two months ago.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
Vanilla, hate to break it to you, but it was asked and answered about two months ago.

Yes, I know. That was why I didn't repeat the question I asked you on page 1. Which, again was the same question asked by AnglRdr just with different words.

quote:
My point was clear and precise. It was only dealing with the children and stated as such. Can you please go back and show me where I mentioned the adults.
Yes, you only mentioned the children. Your post about the children raised a question about the actions of the adults involved. Is there a new rule where no one can ask you a question about a topic you haven't specifically brought up?

quote:
So, go back in the thread and show me where I created the confusion.
There was no confusion about the question, just your unwillingness/inability to answer it the first time it was asked.

--------------------
I swear, it was funnier in my head.
Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
Is there a new rule where no one can ask you a question about a topic you haven't specifically brought up?

As I said I thought AnglRdr read to much into the statement. I did not want anyone trying to link the first statement to the behavior of the adults. The two were not inclusive of each other at all. My refusal at first to answer the question was since it was a loaded question. When the question was asked in the proper manner I answered it.
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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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Let's look at the original statement by Wintermute....

"Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?"

This isn't just a statement about the vandal, but about the punishment he received at the hands of the vigilantes. So no, it's not just about the kids.

The tone here - and I'm pretty sure that most other people will share it - is that this is a rhetorical question. Wintermute asks if the kid learned his lesson, implying that he *believes* that they did learn their lesson and will not be an ass again. Maybe this is wrong, but AnglRdr tried to clarify this with a "loaded" question.

I also believe that I'm not the only person who thinks that this was a vague approval by Wintermute, for the actions of the vigilantes. After all, this is what we would *want* to happen - vandals get caught, punished, "learn a lesson" and never repeat their crime.

However, AnglRdr did not agree with this approval and wanted to clarify it before starting a debate. Calling it a "loaded" question is just as much as saying that your rhetorical statement about the "lesson learned" is also loaded. Was your first comment similarly "loaded"?

In other words, yes you did comment about the actions of the vigilantes. It took a long time for you to answer this directly. Where we have an disagreement is because we believed that you, Wintermute, approved of the vigilante action. What gave us the wrong idea about this? The fact that you never really answered the question until I asked it directly two months later. You muddied the waters with the Citizen's Arrest issue, implying that the use of force was justified. Lots of vagueness all around.

And again, how nice of you, Wintermute, to find an opportunity to boast about how smart and successful you are. You don't have time to read your posts or write them clearly because you are too busy making money - as the $65K to start for a police officer (around $33/hr) would be a massive cut in pay. Granted that this all depends on where you live, but in polite society, this is called bragging, and it's not polite.

But since you've indicated that you are a police officer part-time because it doesn't pay enough, it demonstrates that your primary motivator is money. Police work is not your career or your calling - just a "hobby". It implies a certain disdain for even doing this job well, because there is no reward. The more you speak about yourself, the lower you sink.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
This isn't just a statement about the vandal, but about the punishment he received at the hands of the vigilantes. So no, it's not just about the kids.

Incorrect, it was a statement about the children nothing more.

quote:
Granted that this all depends on where you live, but in polite society, this is called bragging, and it's not polite.
No, it is call pointing out the obvious. If i was bragging I would tell you what I made which I did not. So, there is nothing impolite about answering why I do not do it full time.
quote:
It implies a certain disdain for even doing this job well, because there is no reward. The more you speak about yourself, the lower you sink.
Wow, that is a logic train wreck. I wonder if you ever actually read what any one else types. The reward is helping the community. I believe so much in it that i do it for FREE.
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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Interesting Wintermute. So, we are to believe that you made a simple comment about the children involved and are not supposed to read anymore into the statement then that.

So, why can't you do the same for AnglRdr's question (and everyone else who asked it)? She asked a simple question regarding the adults. You are not supposed to read anymore into the question than that.

I guess I just don't understand why you read into AnglRdr's question when you tell others not to read deeper into your statements. I'm sure that if I'm missing something you will let me know.

--------------------
I swear, it was funnier in my head.
Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
If you take that attitude towards your two occupations, it's no wonder that you're only part time.

Maybe you missed it but I work as a reserve is because the starting pay on a police officer is to low. In the area I live in a police officer starts off at about 65,000. I am not prepared to take a massive pay cut such as that at this point in time.
Only 65K? That's a good income in my area. You must live in a very expensive place.

quote:
Forsaking clarity for "time management" is NFBSK if people don't understand you.
quote:
My point was clear and precise. It was only dealing with the children and stated as such. Can you please go back and show me where I mentioned the adults. So, go back in the thread and show me where I created the confusion. Since you can not show where I said jack crap about the adults you retort to personal attacks, which honestly I find more humor in then anything. So, yes, my job comes before arguing with you. I know this may shock you but people with real jobs have to produce real results. When you get older you will understand.
I wasn't even talking about this thread. I was only holding up that post as a general idea of how you post.

Seeing as you've done much worse in the personal attack department, I don't feel bad about what I said. It's true.

And how much older do I have to be? Unless you haven't updated your profile in a while, you're only a little under three years older than I am. I guess that three years made so much of a difference in knowledge and experience. [Roll Eyes] Check your facts first before you insult someone.


quote:
As for success? I'll never reach your level of success in the ad hominem and strawman arguments. I marvel at them.
quote:
I have to find the irony is that you showed up in this thread to only make personal attacks on me. You marvel at them? You have surpassed them in everyway.
I have? Gosh golly gee, Mr. Wintermute, I feel so lucky to be complimented by you! [Roll Eyes]

I never said I didn't do the ad hominem this time. I was just saying it's the way you post every time. If your argument doesn't work the first time, or you're misunderstood, you immediately resort to either ad hominem or strawman.

--------------------
My blog

Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Bored and Dangerous
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
quote:
Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous:
So you're saying doing things correctly isn't important?[SM] If you take that attitude towards your two occupations, it's no wonder that you're only part time.[AHm1] Also, the return on your poor grammar and spelling is that people either don't read what you have to say because they don't want to wade through it or they think you are of lesser intelligence because you can't form a complete sentence. I hope your "return" is worth it.

Forsaking clarity for "time management" is NFBSK if people don't understand you. You've wasted their time (screwing up their "time management")if they have take the time to decipher what you've said because you couldn't bother to take one minute to proofread and spell check what you typed. If your time is that valuable, I'm surprised you have a chance to pee during the day. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if you are less than accurate in your occupations as well.
[AHm2]

As for success? I'll never reach your level of success in the ad hominem and strawman arguments. I marvel at them.

--B&D

Don't sell yourself short on your Ad Hominem and strawman abilities, you've managed to get one strawman and two Ad Hominems in that post of yours.
Heh. I noticed after I posted, but I was too peeved to correct it. My apologies after the fact to all who read it.

--B&D

--------------------
My blog

Watch?? I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?--Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
I'm sure that if I'm missing something you will let me know.

Anglrdr even admitted there was more to be read into hers. so, my first assumption as correct.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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