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Author Topic: Not that I approve of vigilantism, but...
Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Roadie4JCM.:
I'm still not finding where this says resisting a citizen's arrest is illegal. Perhaps it is case law?

Sometimes when you read laws you have to be able to put them all together. Since the law gives a person the right to do an arrest they are now lawfully enacting an arrest. Section 835 says the person can use force to enact the arrest. So, if you look at assault it is the unlawful attempt of force. So, if party A has the rights to hold you (CA) then if you try to resist then you are illegally using force against party A. Do, not expect the penal code to connect the dots for you. That is why they include the elements, describe the crimes, define the words, etc.
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Roadie
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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My understanding is that the "putting it all together" is the purview of the judicial system, not law enforcement. In a code book as thick and ever-changing as the California Penal Code, the answer then would be "No, there is no law against resisting a citizen's arrest."

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"The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)

"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus)

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Roadie4JCM.:
My understanding is that the "putting it all together" is the purview of the judicial system, not law enforcement. In a code book as thick and ever-changing as the California Penal Code, the answer then would be "No, there is no law against resisting a citizen's arrest."

No, putting it all together is the job of the LEO. It is the job of the court system to have a trial to determine guilt, and the corrections system to punish the offender. The officer on the street has to be able to put it all together to see if an offense has happened. If the officer does not see the tree through the forest he will not be a very successful officer. So, yes there is law against resisting a legal citizen’s arrest since the person resisting is using unlawful force against another person. It also depends on what happens on how you write it up as well.
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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The man who apparently did it has been arrested and wants to plead guilty!

quote:
On July 13, Mullen examined the list of sex offenders on the Whatcom County sheriff's Web site, Ambrose said. From that list, he chose at least one of the two victims.
Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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abigsmurf
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Being on a sex offenders list warrents death?

I'm not sure of the percentages but I'm sure the majority of people commited of sexual offences are guilty of the more minor acts such as flashing, groping or pinching a woman. Then there's the cases that are more of a grey area like women who have had too much to drink spending the night with someone and regretting it.

Shooting someone (who must've served their punishment) even for rape is utterly wrong (traumatic as rape is and although the memory will remain, most women do move on and carry on with their lives. It's a bit harder for someone to do that when they're dead) let alone someone who may have possibly only committed a minor offence.

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Big, if you read this entire thread, you'll find that most people here agree with you that the shooter was in the wrong.

However, I will say that the victims were class three sex offenders. They had not committed minor offenses.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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abigsmurf
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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all of the thread up until this page was about the paintball kids and citizens arrest from what I read unless there are one or two odd posts amount the 5 pages I overlooked
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Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by abigsmurf:
all of the thread up until this page was about the paintball kids and citizens arrest from what I read unless there are one or two odd posts amount the 5 pages I overlooked

Big, the response about the guy killing the sex offenders was misplaced in this thread. It should have gone in THIS discussion instead.

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Oops, sorry.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Wow... what an utterly frustrating thread to read. There is nothing I find more annoying than watching as people clearly & consistently completely fail to grasp what the other person was trying to say.

Wintermute: I'll agree with you that nowhere did you specifically state that you agreed with the actions of the 20yr olds. After I read your first post however, I felt there was implied agreement with the vigilante punishment (and it seems I'm not the only person to have felt this).

AnglRdr at least gave you the opportunity to clarify this by asking in the very next post if you felt the actions were justified. You then basically started "calling bullshit" and making accusations of a strawman (which, to my understanding of logical fallacy it certainly wasn't).

A strawman in this instance would've been something like "Since you weren't there and didn't see what happened, your opinion doesn't count". Probably not the best strawman but that'll do for now.

I would tend to assume that the rational response to a question is to answer it. Instead it took you several hours to actually get around to doing that.

Speaking of logical fallacies, you managed to throw out a bunch of ad hominems in your posts Wintermute. Let's take a look... "or is more fun to live in your own world when making comments?" when responding to Four Kitties. Not to mention the "Anglrdr, I am always calm. It is you who I worry about at times."

See... that is a logical fallacy and is often a sign that someone is lacking in the ability to think critically. I'd laugh if it didn't infuriate me so much. I guess I can't place you under CA for it can I? No, I figure you won't get the humour there and probably launch into a tirade on how I'm not a suitable person to perform a CA (and yes, that's an ad hominem and probably a splash of strawman as well).

It worries me that someone who -- based on his actions in this thread -- apparently cannot see that his own actions are worse than those he is accusing, is involved with law enforcement.

Timbomc: Your revenge fantasies are disturbing and disproportionate. The kids were throwing paintballs at objects, not at people -- therefore one would tend to assume that the "punishment fitting of the crime" would be to smear their possessions with paint from the paintballs. Not to bind the kids to a tree and have the townsfolk throw paintballs at them. I thought society had progressed a little beyond public stonings & lynchings?

Also, since this apparently is acceptable, you obviously have teenage kids and know exactly what they're doing at all hours of the day & night. Clearly, these teenagers also expressly follow every rule you make and carry out every order you give them perfectly.

How often do you have to change the batteries in them?

------------

I guess I don't have a lot more to add... I couldn't let that rest without saying something though. I realise I'll get minimal satisfaction from it but the smug afterglow of saying what I felt needed to be said.

My thoughts on the actual incident basically echo what has already been said by Chloe & DemonWolf. The juveniles should be charged with vandalism and the 20yr olds should be charged with kidnapping at the very least.

Logical fallacies:
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/

ETA: To hopefully make some grammar better.
ETAx2: More little fixes to hopefully improve clarity.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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abby 68
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Should've let the kid keep his underwear & shoes on at least....
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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
A strawman in this instance would've been something like "Since you weren't there and didn't see what happened, your opinion doesn't count". Probably not the best strawman but that'll do for now.

Actually, I think that would be a appeal to authority fallacy. A strawman would be, "So you think the teenagers should be allowed to throw paintballs without anyone doing anything about it?"

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Actually, I think that would be a appeal to authority fallacy. A strawman would be, "So you think the teenagers should be allowed to throw paintballs without anyone doing anything about it?"

That would be a strawman for the affirmative argument that the kids got what they deserved, wouldn't it? Although I've always thought strawman arguments didn't involve a question.

It would be more like "Your idea that teenagers should be allowed to throw paintballs without fear of punishment is clearly wrong, therefore..." when no such suggestion has been made.

What I was trying to illustrate was a strawman for the negative argument.

Of course, my knowledge of logical fallacy is self-taught so I accept I'm not an authority by any stretch of the imagination.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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Yes, it would be a strawman for that side of the argument. I wasn't concerned so much with what side it was on as I was about creating an example strawman.

I think a strawman can be a question or a statment. The main focus is that you alter your opponent's argument into a superficially similar argument that is easily refuted.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Cool, I've learned something.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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zakor
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?

Yeah, they should have cut off both his feet, then he'd have learned his lesson.

Vote Bush often?

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zakor
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
It worries me that someone who -- based on his actions in this thread -- apparently cannot see that his own actions are worse than those he is accusing, is involved with law enforcement.
And they say that the President of the USA doesn't set an example for our people any more...
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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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zakor, you've got issues. Perhaps you should take them to moveon.org or somewhere else more appropriate than this thread.

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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STF
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by First of Stew:
zakor, you've got issues. Perhaps you should take them to moveon.org or somewhere else more appropriate than this thread.

agreed..."Vote Bush often?" [Roll Eyes]

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STF on MySpace

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by First of Stew:
zakor, you've got issues. Perhaps you should take them to moveon.org or somewhere else more appropriate than this thread.

Oh, First! You are such a card! [lol]

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by First of Stew:
zakor, you've got issues. Perhaps you should take them to moveon.org or somewhere else more appropriate than this thread.

Oh, First! You are such a card! [lol]
Correct.
 -

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
See... that is a logical fallacy and is often a sign that someone is lacking in the ability to think critically.
Wow, do you even have a clue as to what you are talking about? Well, I guess not since you are lacking the ability to think critically.
quote:
It worries me that someone who -- based on his actions in this thread -- apparently cannot see that his own actions are worse than those he is accusing, is involved with law enforcement.
Just to be your straight your opinions of what I am suitable for means zero to me, and to anyone that knows me. Considering your little tirade made little to no sense except for making personal attacks about me I have to find the humor in you thinking you know about me in some manner. While I may not agree with AnglRdr or Fourkitties we at least share familiarity with each out that you do not share with me. I doubt anyone is going to be to concerned with your opinion about me. I am sure my Chief is quivering in anticipation from your great revelation that you do not know Jack Shit about me. In the future you should leave personal comments about people you know zero about to yourself as it only makes yourself look like an ignorant ass.
quote:
Yeah, they should have cut off both his feet, then he'd have learned his lesson.
Zakor, after watching your behavior in this thread and others I have to ponder this question. Are you a troll or mentally retarded? Or are you making the same ignorant assumption as Salamander that some how you have some level familiarity with me you do not really have? If you had paid attention you would notice I am against violence in most cases. Or are you stating that you think this person should have really had his feet cut off? If that is true then I am sorry to say you are a sick piece of shit in my opinion. The child deserved to be punished, but nothing along the lines of mayhem.
I have to wonder why these two would open a thread that has been closed for several weeks to make personal attacks on me. What are they trying to prove or compensate for?
quote:
Everybody only wants to discuss me
So this must mean I'm disgusting
But its just me I'm just obscene

Now, if you two would like to continue your childish and ignorant attacks on me please do it through PM instead of bringing a old thread back to life.
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Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
]Just to be your straight your opinions of what I am suitable for means zero to me, and to anyone that knows me. Considering your little tirade made little to no sense except for making personal attacks about me I have to find the humor in you thinking you know about me in some manner. While I may not agree with AnglRdr or Fourkitties we at least share familiarity with each out that you do not share with me. I doubt anyone is going to be to concerned with your opinion about me. I am sure my Chief is quivering in anticipation from your great revelation that you do not know Jack Shit about me. In the future you should leave personal comments about people you know zero about to yourself as it only makes yourself look like an ignorant ass.

My, my... touchy aren't we?

I did state I based my assumptions entirely upon this thread. For all I know you're the world's greatest guy otherwise. In this thread, I felt you had shown yourself to be less than that.

I never stated that anyone else should be concerned about my opinion of you so I'm not sure why this was brought into it. Again, I never stated that your boss should be quivering about anything, you appear to be misrepresenting my comments in order to dismiss them.

Feel free, it is your right to do so after all.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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omnigeist
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
You do *not* EVER put your hands on someone else's child.

I call bullshit. The law gives you the right to put your hands on another person when they are violating the law. It is called a citizens arrest.
Citizen's arrests are illegal, atleast in where I live, but it may vary.(Sorry if I'm restating something someone else says, didn't see anything about it other than references to kidnapping which is what it is considered in the law)
omnigeist

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
It worries me that someone who -- based on his actions in this thread -- apparently cannot see that his own actions are worse than those he is accusing, is involved with law enforcement.

I thought this thread died a long time ago. In my posts, Wintermute replied with threats of charging me with a crime if I were to "resist" a citizen's arrest. He is not a citizen - he is a law enforcement officer, though he does not clearly admit this. He is biased. He does not approach this topic as a citizen, but as an officer of the law. This is, in and of itself, not wrong, but he has the opinion that officers of the law are themselves better than the average citizen, and above scrutiny.

He clearly supports vigilante behaviour as long as it falls within his definition of "acceptable" punishment. It's okay to humiliate someone and beat them up "a bit" because that punishment fits the crime, in his mind. For a law enforcement officer to endorse this behaviour is indeed frightening. We have long since held that one person does not enforce the law *and* decide punishment.

People make mistakes "in good faith". Break down the door of someone who you *believe* is committing a felony, and you are wrong, and you should be held accountable. Even if you had all your ducks in a row, and then you get the wrong address, well, woe be unto you. Suppose you break down the door of someone who is innocent of that felony, and that they shoot you in self defense? Who is at fault here? Considering the new "shoot first" law in Florida which allows one to defend themselves with deadly force if it is justified (i.e. the adversary does not have to even have a weapon visible), how can you trust *anyone*? If the arrester is *wrong*, does that get them a free ticket to break into your house, hold you at gunpoint, beat you up, or kill you if you try to defend yourself?

If this would be so easy, I could see a lot of criminals coming up to people with guns and saying "citizen's arrest - strip down to your underwear", then taking their money, or taking other liberties with them. And according to Wintermute, one should just take it because that's what the law has to say about Citizen's Arrest. I'm sorry, but there are a lot of people out there who aren't going to fall for this trick. There are numerous urban legends - some true - of how criminals impersonate law enforcement officers to commit other crimes (i.e. rape and sexual assault). I can only imagine that if there are more people out there with attitudes like Wintermute, that we'll soon see clever criminals committing crimes by initiating a false citizen's arrest. And according to him, there won't be anything we can do about it because to resist a citizen's arrest - because it is done "in good faith" - is also a crime.

Just out of curiosity, what is the charge for making a false Citizen's Arrest?

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
He is not a citizen - he is a law enforcement officer, though he does not clearly admit this. He is biased. He does not approach this topic as a citizen, but as an officer of the law.

I am a citizen police officer. I am a full time manager in the telecommunications industry, and a reserve police officer.

quote:
He clearly supports vigilante behaviour as long as it falls within his definition of "acceptable" punishment.
Interesting, because I have said vigilante behavior is unacceptable. Can you cite me where I said something different?


quote:
It's okay to humiliate someone and beat them up "a bit" because that punishment fits the crime, in his mind.
Interesting, never said that as well. Can you provide a cite to where I said it was OK to beat someone up and humiliate them?

quote:
Even if you had all your ducks in a row, and then you get the wrong address, well, woe be unto you.
That would not be having all your ducks in a row. Obviously as I said before you do not understand the law nor should you try to enforce it. You would end up knocking down some person's door, and getting shot. This is why you let trained police officers handle the situation.

quote:
If the arrester is *wrong*, does that get them a free ticket to break into your house, hold you at gunpoint, beat you up, or kill you if you try to defend yourself?
Once again you really need to read and understand the laws before you go on the big straw man hunt. The simple answer is you have to look at the totality of the situation. Of course you are creating such a deranged situation I doubt you will ever encounter it in real life.


quote:
And according to him, there won't be anything we can do about it because to resist a citizen's arrest - because it is done "in good faith" - is also a crime.
Once again you need to read the law and understand it. If someone is robbing you then that is not a valid citizens arrest. It does not take a genius to understand that you have the right to defend yourself from being robbed. Mike, not to be snarky but it is obvious that your understand of California law is a little lacking at best. You should really sit down and read the laws instead of creating weird fictional scenarios that prove you do not understand the law. These are not new laws and have been on the books for a long time. Once you sit down, read the laws, and really understand the laws I would welcome you back to discuses them.
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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
I did state I based my assumptions entirely upon this thread. For all I know you're the world's greatest guy otherwise. In this thread, I felt you had shown yourself to be less than that.

The problem is your pulled your assumptions out of your bottom side rather then from what was said. So, while in reality you may be quite the clever person, in this thread you have shown yourself in less flattering light.
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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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Wintermute, I think you should change your name to "strawman" since you've used it so many times that it has lost its charm.

Your first post in this thread asked if the kids had "learned their lesson" and will not repeat their act of vandalism. You really need to be more clear and tell us what you meant because a lot of people here have looked at this statement and interpret it as an endorsement for the vigilante action. Here is how we believe this - we assume that the punishment to a crime will deter and prevent future crimes - teaching the lesson that if you do this crime and get caught, you will be punished. You set this out for everyone then dance around it.

You get asked if you feel that the actions of the vigilantes were justified, you throw up the word "strawman" and hide behind it. That's cowardice when it comes to debate. State your opinion and show some conviction.

Then you call "bullshit" and start this great debate about citizen's arrest.

My evidence that you don't consider yourself part of the "people" but "the law", is your threat to me about charging me with a crime, if I resisted what I believed to be an unlawful citizen's arrest. Obviously your part-time policing has gone to your head.

In any case, I stand by my statements and convictions. I believe that the law for citizen's arrest leaves considerable room for abuse by clever criminals, and that there is not much immediate recourse for a person when they are falsely placed under citizen's arrest. They just seem to need to sit there and take it until real police arrive. Sorry, but I'm not so trusting.

The person making the arrest may be wrong. You seem to dismiss this completely. Hey, guess what, even *real police* arrest the wrong person on occasion. People can make this false arrest and not even know that they are wrong. Do you expect people to stand by and take it?

It's not a fantasy to assume that this does happen. I'm sure that many people get mistakenly accused of shoplifting because sometimes people look and dress alike. A person concerned for their safety won't stand for this if they are falsely accused.

You know what, be happy in your own little world where you are "Judge Dredd". It's clear to me that you're the kind of person who entered into law enforcement because they think they are better than others, and they do this because they like the prospects of hurting other people in the line of duty. I don't feel safe knowing that people like you are entrusted to carry firearms and use their own poor judgment to use deadly force, to uphold the law. Should I ever move to California, unlikely as that may be, rest assured that I'll be concerned for my personal safety knowing that you are on the job. Excellent public relations for your beleaguered secondary occupation.

Anyway, let's come back to the OP and consider this situation - very likely in my opinion. What if the vigilantes caught the wrong kid? Say they saw someone else who looked like the real vandals? Of course, anyone they catch would deny the crime, but the vigilantes are sure they have the right person. What happens then?

Now answer the questions and quit hiding behind your "strawman". I'm not the only one who thinks you're avoiding the question, stirring things up, and don't really understand what "strawman" means.

Here are some questions back to the OP so we can find out just where you stand on this issue. Some are hypothetical, but are more or less possible extension of the situation.

1) Do you believe the vigilantes actions were justified? If so, what part of their actions? Should they have stopped before inflicting their own brand of punishment on the alleged vandal?

2) Do you think the vigilantes committed any crime in the process of what they did?

2A) What if they had caught the wrong person?

2B) What if the alleged vandal was female and they too were made to strip?

3) If the wrong person was caught by the vigilantes, should they have had the right to defend themselves?

4) Should the vigilantes be liable for any harm that came to the vandals, even if they believed all along that they were right?

5) If the vigilantes were wrong or harmed the vandals, can they be held liable in civil court for any damage or injury?

6) If the alleged vandal was indeed innocent, and defended themselves during their false detainment, what if the conflict escalated to deadly force?

I may think of more later, but it's time for you to stand up with your opinion, not hide behind some cowardly excuse.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
Your first post in this thread asked if the kids had "learned their lesson" and will not repeat their act of vandalism.

Ok this whole top part just looks like blah blah blah *my name is Mike and I have mental issues* blah blah Blah
So, most of your rant is either incorrect personal attacks that you can not backup, or you misunderstanding of life in general. I will answer you below questions if nothing else for entertainment.

quote:
1) Do you believe the vigilantes actions were justified? If so, what part of their actions? Should they have stopped before inflicting their own brand of punishment on the alleged vandal?
Already asked and answered, but since you have a problem with reading I will sum it up nicely.

NO, their actions were not proper.


quote:
2) Do you think the vigilantes committed any crime in the process of what they did?
Yes. They crossed the line.

quote:
2A) What if they had caught the wrong person?
It does not matter if they had the correct person or not. their actions were not a CA. they were jacking with the kids for fun.

quote:
2B) What if the alleged vandal was female and they too were made to strip?
Why would a female make their actions any less wrong or right?

quote:
3) If the wrong person was caught by the vigilantes, should they have had the right to defend themselves?
Since the vigilantes were not doing a CA the children had every right to defend themselves from a being assaulted.


quote:
4) Should the vigilantes be liable for any harm that came to the vandals, even if they believed all along that they were right?
This was not a CA but even under a CA you are still liable for your actions. The law gives you the right to enact the arrest. It does not give you the power to beat someone for fun. You can only use the force required to enact the arrest. You step over the line you are still criminally liable for your actions.


quote:
5) If the vigilantes were wrong or harmed the vandals, can they be held liable in civil court for any damage or injury?
Yes, if they are right they can still be held civilly liable.

quote:
6) If the alleged vandal was indeed innocent, and defended themselves during their false detainment, what if the conflict escalated to deadly force?
The courts would have to sort that one out. I am not even sure of the real question. Is the question, could the person arresting be held criminally and civilly liable? yes. They are only protected against criminal prosecution if they follow the law. Even then they can be arrested, cited, etc. It would be the courts job to determine if they went overboard.
I have never hid behind a cowardly excuse, but your lack of understanding of the laws is mind boggling.

Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sylvanz
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Hmmm, this is somewhat curious because last summer, around July, 2004, Wintermute was trained as some sort of healthcare worker. He seemed to be quite expert at any questions regarding the medical profession now he appears to be an expert at questions regarding the law (at least regarding California law) what next "Indian Chief"? [Wink]

P&LL, Syl

--------------------
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

Posts: 1944 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Since Sylvanz is a little slow I will give her a break.
I was trained in medical profession before July 2004. Of course, if you had paid attention you would have know that I left the medical field after I was married. I did the police academy in 2003. Really, Sylvanz, do you ever have a point besides being wrong? There is nothing like you stalking me from thread to thread and being wrong each time. I am not sure if I should be flattering or if I should find it creepy.

Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sylvanz
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:Since Sylvanz is a little slow I will give her a break.
I was trained in medical profession before July 2004. Of course, if you had paid attention you would have know that I left the medical field after I was married. I did the police academy in 2003. Really, Sylvanz, do you ever have a point besides being wrong? There is nothing like you stalking me from thread to thread and being wrong each time. I am not sure if I should be flattering or if I should find it creepy.

Now see I find this highly amusing and typical. First I'm "slow" because I'm not intimately informed about Wintermute's life and professional training. Then I'm "stalking" him from thread to thread because I make an observation about the fact that he seems to have expertise in two rather disparate and specialized careers. Now wouldn't I be a little better informed, i.e. not "a little slow," if I was breathlessly following Wintermute's comings and goings? [Big Grin]

P&LL, Syl'can't have it both ways'vanz

--------------------
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
Since Sylvanz is a little slow I will give her a break.
I was trained in medical profession before July 2004. Of course, if you had paid attention you would have know that I left the medical field after I was married. I did the police academy in 2003. Really, Sylvanz, do you ever have a point besides being wrong? There is nothing like you stalking me from thread to thread and being wrong each time. I am not sure if I should be flattering or if I should find it creepy.

*tweet*

Unnecessary roughness. Roughing the poster. 15 yards.

Please reset the game clock to 14:23.

--------------------
If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Sylvanz:
Hmmm, this is somewhat curious because last summer, around July, 2004, Wintermute was trained as some sort of healthcare worker. He seemed to be quite expert at any questions regarding the medical profession now he appears to be an expert at questions regarding the law (at least regarding California law) what next "Indian Chief"? [Wink]

But *of course* he is a pre-eminent expert in the medical profession, because he has apparently diagnosed me with mental issues. He also happens to be psychic, because he *knows* that you are stalking him from thread to thread.

Hey, Wintermute, can you say anything to anyone without being insulting or demeaning?

And better yet, why don't you stop being vague. When people say they are trained in the medical profession, that implies quite strongly they are a doctor. Are you a really a doctor, or is this a vague reference specifically intended to mislead us into thinking you are more than what you are? In the strictest sense of the definition, an orderly works in the "medical profession", as does a the person who does the hospital laundry, but they are not doctors, and each one implies a different level of competency, expertise, and in your case, weight to the statements of "fact" they post to this board.

I ask this because it has taken a number of direct questions for you to admit that you are in fact a law enforcement officer, though only a reserve police officer.

In other words, you're not a real cop, and I doubt that you're a real doctor. Not to mention that you are also, in addition to all of this, a full-time manager in the telecommunications industry. All this at the tender age of 30. Wow, even Doogie Howser would be jealous.

What you have shown is that you are really insulting and unpleasant, and at least *4* people in this thread alone have been subjected to your unprovoked attacks.

I'm just waiting for you to roll out your so-called credentials in other fields like engineering, or religion, or finance. Then we can all bend down and worship you for the expert you claim to be. You wouldn't be the first person who goes to a public forum, and exaggerates about their credentials for a nice ego-stroke.

--------------------
"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Sylvanz:
Then I'm "stalking" him from thread to thread because I make an observation about the fact that he seems to have expertise in two rather disparate and specialized careers.

No, I call it stalking because you go from thread to thread and add nothing but trying to fling personal insults. So, if you think I am incorrect about something then prove it. Of course since you can’t you try to make personal attacks instead. So, I am challenging you to add some real value to a thread. So, instead of focusing on me, why not focus on the topic? Maybe, you will add something interesting to a thread. I doubt it, but here is your chance to prove me wrong.
quote:
Now wouldn't I be a little better informed, i.e. not "a little slow," if I was breathlessly following Wintermute's comings and goings? [Big Grin]
No, because it takes awhile for it to sink in with you.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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