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Author Topic: Not that I approve of vigilantism, but...
Beastly Despot
Deck the Malls


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There's at least a ~little~ humor here, isn't there? On second, thought, maybe not...I'm not sure.

No link, b/c its the local paper and you have to have a subscription.

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Paintball prank leads to terror for teenager


For Dwight Deckard, the vigilante justice imposed on his 13-year-old son didn’t fit the crime.

Deckard said three men forced his son to strip to his shorts and run home after the men allegedly witnessed four teenagers throwing paintballs in a southside neighborhood around 2 a.m. Sunday.

“These guys are adults,” Deckard said. “They should know better. They had no right to touch my son. When they did that, they committed a felony.”

The four boys, ranging in age from 13 to 15, were having a camp-out in one teen’s yard on Skylark Drive. The four left the yard and allegedly started throwing paintballs around the neighborhood.

A report by Bloomington police officer Joseph Henry gave the following account of what happened next:

Three adult males witnessed the vandalism and chased the boys. While three of the teens managed to elude their pursuers, one was caught and thrown into a vehicle. Police said the youth was forced to strip to his boxer shorts and socks before he was released and told to go home.

Deckard learned something was wrong when his son’s 15-year-old brother called home to say that he couldn’t find the 13-year-old.

Deckard said when he went looking for his son, he found his son’s clothing strewn along Highland Avenue.

“That’s when I told my wife to call the police,” Deckard said.

Deckard also called the parents of the two other boys who had been with his son.

Lisa DeVito-Corns’ 14-year-old son was among the missing teens. After getting a call from the Deckards, she also drove to the scene to try to find them.

After police arrived, they were given a vehicle description by Deckard’s 15-year-old son. Police later located a car matching that description in the 1600 block of South Highland Avenue.

As police investigated the incident, Deckard found the three boys about a half-hour later, hiding on a neighbor’s porch.

“They didn’t know if these guys were coming back,” Deckard said.

Deckard said he was about a block from his home when he heard his son say, “Dad.”

“He was afraid to draw attention to himself even to get my attention,” Deckard said. “These guys have no idea what they did to him.”

Officers spoke to three men in their mid-20s who admitted abducting the boy and ordering him to strip. Police said the men told them that they chased the boys because they witnessed the teens hitting vehicles and homes with paintballs.

No charges have been filed, although the case has been sent to the prosecutor’s office. The teens have been referred to juvenile court on charges of criminal mischief.

Deckard admits that the 15-year-old was not immediately forthcoming about the incident.

“He told them they had been out wandering and some guys had chased them,” Deckard said.

It wasn’t until later that the families learned about the vandalism.

According to Deckard, one of the boys got a paintball gun a couple of days ago. Deckard said it was out of air so the kids were walking around throwing paintballs.

Deckard said he still is waiting to get some of the details from his sons.

“I’ve not gotten the full story on that,” he said. “They’re teenagers. That doesn’t happen.”

Both parents said their sons have not been the same since the incident.

Deckard said that he thinks his son is still in shock over the events. He said he has asked his son where he was picked up and dropped off, but his son doesn’t remember.

“He was too scared,” Deckard said.

DeVito-Corns said she took the day off from work in order to be with her son.

“He didn’t know what was going to happen,” she said. “He saw them go after his friend. He said, ‘Mom, I was terrified.’ We didn’t go to sleep until 6 a.m. Sunday.”

For now, the kids are sticking close to home.

“They’re both grounded,” Deckard said. “They’re not going be out and about.”

While neither parent dismisses their children’s actions, both feel the adults should be punished, too.

“My sons are going to go and be dealt with for what they did,” Deckard said. “These guys should be dealt with equally.”

Deckard was particularly upset that the men forced his son to undress.

“They humiliated my son,” he said. “They’re nothing more than bullies. I feel very strongly about it.”

DeVito-Corns agreed that the men acted inappropriately.

“Whatever our children were doing, these men had no right to chase these boys,” she said.

DeVito-Corns said she knows that the kids misbehaved.

“It was very wrong what they did, but these men should have never done what they did,” she said. “They should have called the police. I don’t think that any adult should ever do that to a child.”

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"I have a cunning plan"

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Red Squirrel
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Something about this reminds me of the plot of Mystic River (minus the abduction part).

It certainly would be easy to abuse a child or teeneger under the pretext of disciplining them for being bad. Not that that neccesarily happened in this case.

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The Sqizzle formally known as Lexi

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?
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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
Well, I wonder if the kid will run around and be an ass again, or if learned his lesson?

If this had been my son, I'd be pissed, too.

You do *not* EVER put your hands on someone else's child. And you most assuredly do not make someone else's child strip down to their underwear and get into your car and be driven around all night.

Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I wouldn't mind these adults catching the kid(s) and holding them in place until the police arrive. I'm not sure if it'd be legal or not, but morally, I believe it would be the right thing to do.

However, these men definitely went overboard.

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Le champignon arrive.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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They knew where the kids lived; detaining them is still over the line, IMO.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
You do *not* EVER put your hands on someone else's child.



I almost agree...but I think there would be justification for grabbing the kid by the wrist and demanding his name. "Kid, I'm either gonna call your parents or the cops. Your choice."

quote:
And you most assuredly do not make someone else's child strip down to their underwear and get into your car and be driven around all night.

Total agreement. That's insane. It's dangerous, it's illegal, it's immoral, it's "two wrongs," and it's excessive.

(Taking the kid's gun away and breaking it over your knee is illegal, immoral, and "two wrongs," but not necessarily excessive...)

Silas

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I could see holding the kid in the car until the police arrived, if they had pelted the kid with paintballs I would think that they were asshats but would have little sympathy for the kid (he'd deserve it). What these guys did, IMO, is a sex crime and I hope that they are charged accordingly.

ETA: $200 REWARD for information that ends in a conviction of persons using paintball equipment for vandalism

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IMJW-052804

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
You do *not* EVER put your hands on someone else's child.

I call bullshit. The law gives you the right to put your hands on another person when they are violating the law. It is called a citizens arrest.

quote:
Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?
Nice strawman AnglRdr.
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guruwan2b
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The part where they made the minor strip was way past the line of appropriate behavior. IMHO.

Kim

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Magdalene
Happy Holly Days


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I have no problem with the men *detaining* the kids--but making them strip was out of line.

Holding the kid by his arm while you called the police/his parents should have sufficed.

Though part of me wonders if these kids had caused a lot of problems before and the parents ignored it. *Most* reasonable adults won't snap that quickly.

Magdalene

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"Don't mess with me. I dance with swords."

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jtelson
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Am I the only one who reads the story like this.

Kid was screwing around vandalizing stuff, got caught, pants'd, and sent on his way.

I would have counted myself lucky to have gotten away without my parents or the cops brought into it when I was a kid.

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"Eternal pain and damnation await those who question the unconditional love of God."-Bill Hicks (1961-1994)

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Beastly Despot
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by jtelson:
Am I the only one who reads the story like this.

Kid was screwing around vandalizing stuff, got caught, pants'd, and sent on his way.

I would have counted myself lucky to have gotten away without my parents or the cops brought into it when I was a kid.

OK, now, see - I did too at first.

Then the more I thought about being the "de-pants-er", it started seeming like a pretty weird thing to do.

Then I started thinking about someone doing that to my son - or my daughter! - and I think I'd be pretty pissed.

Inna final analysis, I think they went overboard. I'll even bet you they have police records themselves. Still, there's an element of justice in it (maybe?).

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"I have a cunning plan"

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
You do *not* EVER put your hands on someone else's child.

I call bullshit. The law gives you the right to put your hands on another person when they are violating the law. It is called a citizens arrest.
It does not, however, permit you to act as judge and jury and then meet out punishment.

Still trying to figure out how kidnapping (even aside from the stripping) is even remotely justifiable in anyone's mind. Holding someone at bay is one thing; forcing him into a car takes things to an entirely new level IMO.

Four Kitties

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
Holding someone at bay is one thing; forcing him into a car takes things to an entirely new level IMO.

Four Kitties

To me, it is one thing to say, "sit in the car until the police get here," I wouldn't even think it too odd if you drove the kid to the police station. Driving anywhere else, IMO, is kidnapping. I think that "crossing the line" is the phrase that best fits here. The guys could legally have done a lot, and I agree that there were right in doing something, unfortunatly what they did was not right. Does that make sense.

I also think that these kids have been punished enough. I hope that they are not charged with mischief only because I feel that the punishment receive was moree than sufficient (as well as the fact that the parents indicated further punishment was coming).

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Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

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Troodon
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Personally I think making the kids strip was a stupid thing to do, and illegal as well. However, I don't think it was wrong, in the sense of being morally wrong.

I would not object to the adults responsible for it being punished, but I would not turn them in either.

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Fools! You've over-estimated me!

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Troodon:
Personally I think making the kids strip was a stupid thing to do, and illegal as well. However, I don't think it was wrong, in the sense of being morally wrong.

There are plenty of things that are morally wrong that are not illegal, particularly since there are so many different moralities out there.

How do you feel about vigilante punishment of blasphemy? [Wink]

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Troodon:
Personally I think making the kids strip was a stupid thing to do, and illegal as well. However, I don't think it was wrong, in the sense of being morally wrong.

I would not object to the adults responsible for it being punished, but I would not turn them in either.

I do. As 4K said, they had no right to be judge & jury. They should have called the police and detained the boy if necissary. If they knew where the kid lived, there was no need to even do that, a call to the police with the boy's name and address should have sufficed.

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Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

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Troodon
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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As I said, what they did was stupid and illegal. I would not do it myself and I would not suggest that anyone else should do it. However, in my opinion, it wasn't actually harmful (its not like the kids were beaten or something like that) and the vandals deserved it.

I understand why vigilanteeism is illegal: everyone has different views on what is right and what is wrong. Laws are the compromise.

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Fools! You've over-estimated me!

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GARRETT
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I'm sorry to all the parents out there, but these weren't little babies who got abused. These were punk kids who got taught a lesson. The twenty-something adults probably thought they were doing the kids a favor by not having them arrested. Should they have pants-ed 'em? No, but it is funny as hell!

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WHAT?!?!?!

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
It does not, however, permit you to act as judge and jury and then meet out punishment.

Hmm.. could you possibly cite where I said that in any of my statements? or is more fun to live in your own world when making comments?
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jtelson
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Is that how you spell pants-ed? My spell checker doesn't seem to recognise it. [Smile]

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"Eternal pain and damnation await those who question the unconditional love of God."-Bill Hicks (1961-1994)

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by GARRETT:
I'm sorry to all the parents out there, but these weren't little babies who got abused. These were punk kids who got taught a lesson. The twenty-something adults probably thought they were doing the kids a favor by not having them arrested. Should they have pants-ed 'em? No, but it is funny as hell!

Would it have been equally funny if the offender had been a teenage girl?

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PhysicsGuy
A Rolling Stone Gathers No Kate Moss


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Hmm, I'd say they got what was coming to them, pants-ing and all. Then again, I believe whole-heartedly in the kind of vigilantism espoused by the great Frank Castle... but that probably doesn't give me a whole lot of credibility.

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abigsmurf
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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It also wouldn't have been funny if they had all been blind chloe. The fact is these were a bunch of teenagers going around vandalising property and probably acting like dicks. Any thoughts to old people who are terrorised by these teens going around chucking painballs everywhere?

I think they got their just desserts. Calling their parents or the police almost never deters people from just going on another rampage. I bet they'll think twice before doing it again.

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The point of bringing up gender is that a teenage girl forced into a car by several older men and made to strip, whether as punishment for wrongdoing or not, is clearly sexualized and going over the edge (unless you're Wintermute). Why isn't it equally sexualized for a boy? Males get raped too.

And it wasn't a "they," getting their just deserts. It was one teenager, held and forced to strip alone. And sure, maybe he won't be throwing paintballs around again, but how about a sense of proportion here?

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
You do *not* EVER put your hands on someone else's child.

I call bullshit. The law gives you the right to put your hands on another person when they are violating the law. It is called a citizens arrest.

It does not give you the right to force them to strip, put them in your car, and drive them around all night.

quote:
quote:
Do you really think these adults were justified in their actions, wintermute?
Nice strawman AnglRdr.
How is that a strawman, the definition of which is:
quote:
1 : a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted
? I asked if you thought these actions were justified.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by abigsmurf:


I think they got their just desserts. Calling their parents or the police almost never deters people from just going on another rampage. I bet they'll think twice before doing it again.

On a single event? Probably not. But if there is a recurring pattern in their behavior, having a recorded history of trouble in the police's file would help tremendously in properly taking care of them. If, 5 years down the road, the police have no recorded history of vandalism and someone *finally* decide to contact them and say it's been going on for years, authorities will have one heck of a hard time treating these people as long-term trouble-makers. "Getting their just deserts" is almost always more satisfying on the short term but much, much less satisfying in the long run.

Stupid analogy: if you are/were in a couple and your mate becomes violent or threatening, it is recommended to immediately contact the police. They might not be able to do much on the first call, but the more calls you make, the more power they have to deal appropriately with your mate.

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
It does not give you the right to force them to strip, put them in your car, and drive them around all night.

So, I call bullshit again. I never said anything of the nature. Please, stick to what was said, and not your own manipulation of events please.
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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Just so's we're clear, Wintermute, do you think the actions described in the OP were justifiable?

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Wintermute
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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No, I do not think the child should have been running around with a weapon that can cause death. I think the parents should have been charged for allowing their children to have access to a loaded and lethal weapon. No, I do not think the police acted justifiably in this incident.
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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
No, I do not think the child should have been running around with a weapon that can cause death. I think the parents should have been charged for allowing their children to have access to a loaded and lethal weapon. No, I do not think the police acted justifiably in this incident.

And the actions of the vigilantes? How about them?

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Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink.

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Mistletoey Chloe
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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
No, I do not think the child should have been running around with a weapon that can cause death. I think the parents should have been charged for allowing their children to have access to a loaded and lethal weapon. No, I do not think the police acted justifiably in this incident.

The paintball gun was not working. They were throwing the paintballs. Now, how about the men who dragged the teenager into the car and forced him to strip to his underwear? Was that a good idea?

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CatJuggler
The Red and the Green Stamps


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It would have been totally appropriate for these guys to detain the kid until police arrived. Making him strip?? That's just bizarre. I'm sure they thought it was funny at the time (in order to scare the kid) but it sure backfired on them.

I can't imagine searching for my missing son and finding his clothes strewn in the street and him nowhere in sight. I'd be pretty pissed too.

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
It does not, however, permit you to act as judge and jury and then meet out punishment.

Hmm.. could you possibly cite where I said that in any of my statements? or is more fun to live in your own world when making comments?
Hmm.. could you possible cite where I attributed that to you? or is it more fun to live in your own world when making such accusations?

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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