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Author Topic: Stripping can be lucrative, students told at career day
LadyLockeout
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quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:



If a grown (18+) woman is so unskilled and undereducated that the only way she can make good money (and money is that important to her) is to "dance," then that's her right and her problem.

I had nothing to say to any of this until this post, but I will say this. I take extreme offense to this statement. I danced for a few months when I was 19. I was most certainly NOT "unskilled" and "uneducated". I needed a large amount of money quickly to pay my rent and bills, and this was a legal, logical way to get it. I also had another, "normal" job at the same time. Everyone who dances is not automatically a slut, prostitute, or desperate for money to support a drug habit, or believes money is "that important". Perhaps you should give some people the benefit of the doubt before making assumptions.

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Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now

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Oualawouzou
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quote:
Originally posted by Wizard of Yendor:

quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
But as the article states, the students asked him about that career. He didn't just start blabbering about "exotic dancing" for the heck of it.

Which article said that?
I confess I might have interpreted the article linked in the OP wrong. It says the students "egged" him on the subject, although it doesn't specify weither he had mentionned the subject before the questions were asked or if the students were the first to talk about it. Sorry 'bout that.

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Johnny Slick
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quote:
Originally posted by LadyLockeout:
I danced for a few months when I was 19. I was most certainly NOT "unskilled" and "uneducated". I needed a large amount of money quickly to pay my rent and bills, and this was a legal, logical way to get it. I also had another, "normal" job at the same time. Everyone who dances is not automatically a slut, prostitute, or desperate for money to support a drug habit, or believes money is "that important". Perhaps you should give some people the benefit of the doubt before making assumptions.

But, but LadyLockeout... if she can't jump to quick and erroneous conclusions, how is she supposed to feel morally superior to everyone else?

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LadyLockeout
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You know Johnny, I hadn't thought about that. [lol] I do artistic nude modeling as a side job now while I go to tech school. Does that automatically make me a porn star?

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
quote:
Originally posted by Wizard of Yendor:

quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
But as the article states, the students asked him about that career. He didn't just start blabbering about "exotic dancing" for the heck of it.

Which article said that?
I confess I might have interpreted the article linked in the OP wrong. It says the students "egged" him on the subject, although it doesn't specify weither he had mentionned the subject before the questions were asked or if the students were the first to talk about it. Sorry 'bout that.
I linked to another article later that may be the one you were thinking of. Reading it and other articles on the subject it was clear that the kids may have "egged him on" but they only did so because he had included this on a list of possible careers that were in a handout that he gave the kids. They didn't pull this out of mid-air. He opened the door.


ETA: this was in the second article I linked:

quote:
The hubbub began Tuesday at Jane Lathrop Stanford Middle School's third annual career day when a student asked Foster City salesman William Fried to explain why he listed "exotic dancer" and "stripper" on a handout of potential careers. Fried, who spoke to about 45 eighth-grade students during two separate 55-minute sessions, spent about a minute explaining that the profession is viable and potentially lucrative for those blessed with the physique and talent for the job.




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Fowlplay
The First USA Noel


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The thing I find amusing here is that both parties that were former exotic dancers, don't like their job choices being looked down upon by 'morally superior' people, but they have no problem being morally superior to a prostitute.

Fowl"at some point, we're all hypocrites"play

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by LadyLockeout:
quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:



If a grown (18+) woman is so unskilled and undereducated that the only way she can make good money (and money is that important to her) is to "dance," then that's her right and her problem.

I had nothing to say to any of this until this post, but I will say this. I take extreme offense to this statement. I danced for a few months when I was 19. I was most certainly NOT "unskilled" and "uneducated". I needed a large amount of money quickly to pay my rent and bills, and this was a legal, logical way to get it. I also had another, "normal" job at the same time. Everyone who dances is not automatically a slut, prostitute, or desperate for money to support a drug habit, or believes money is "that important". Perhaps you should give some people the benefit of the doubt before making assumptions.
But where did she say that "dancing" made someone a slut or a prostitute?

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LadyLockeout
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If she can make blanket statements, so can I. [Razz]

Seriously though, the vast majority of people I have come into contact with have exactly that mentality. I will not deny that there are strippers who fall into some of, if not all of the above categories. But there are plenty of others who are stripping to put themselves through college, and are polite, clean, well spoken individuals. Her attitude seriously chaps my ass. If I took her comments at face value, then according to her, I am "unskilled and undereducated" because I was a stripper. She's never met me and doesn't know me from Adam or Eve, but she can apparently tell you exactly that about my life because I took my top off for money on stage. If you're going to get offended about someone telling a bunch of jr high students about stripping being a career, then go ahead and get offended, I'm not even going to try to stop you. I don't have kids, so I don't have any comments on it. But don't blow it up into crap like this.

And that's pretty much all I have to say.

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Katesune: We still can't find the way to albuquerque, and glisp won't stop to ask for directions.
Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now

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Pretty Penny
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quote:
Originally posted by Fowlplay:
The thing I find amusing here is that both parties that were former exotic dancers, don't like their job choices being looked down upon by 'morally superior' people, but they have no problem being morally superior to a prostitute.

Fowl"at some point, we're all hypocrites"play

Only in the sense that a pharmacist is morally superior to a drug dealer.
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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
quote:
Originally posted by Fowlplay:
The thing I find amusing here is that both parties that were former exotic dancers, don't like their job choices being looked down upon by 'morally superior' people, but they have no problem being morally superior to a prostitute.

Fowl"at some point, we're all hypocrites"play

Only in the sense that a pharmacist is morally superior to a drug dealer.
Can you please elaborate without drawing analogies?? I'm afraid that an analogy like that doesnt give a clear picture of why you think pharmacy/stripping is morally superior to drug dealing/prostitution.

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Nico Sasha
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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by LadyLockeout:
If she can make blanket statements, so can I. [Razz]

Seriously though, the vast majority of people I have come into contact with have exactly that mentality. I will not deny that there are strippers who fall into some of, if not all of the above categories. But there are plenty of others who are stripping to put themselves through college, and are polite, clean, well spoken individuals. Her attitude seriously chaps my ass. If I took her comments at face value, then according to her, I am "unskilled and undereducated" because I was a stripper. She's never met me and doesn't know me from Adam or Eve, but she can apparently tell you exactly that about my life because I took my top off for money on stage. If you're going to get offended about someone telling a bunch of jr high students about stripping being a career, then go ahead and get offended, I'm not even going to try to stop you. I don't have kids, so I don't have any comments on it. But don't blow it up into crap like this.

And that's pretty much all I have to say.

I understand what you're saying but I am curious. Did you know any women who stripped because they loved stripping and were serious about it as a career - who didn't stop or wouldn't have stopped when other options came their way I mean?

I agree that many of us are talking about something we don't know anything about and are making a lot of assumptions. And maybe as parents we are letting the fact that we are thinking of this in terms of our own children get in the way of thinking of this in a detached way.

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LadyLockeout
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I have known women who have stripped for many reasons. To pay for college, bills, and to support their kids. I met a few who in fact did do it just for fun. They liked it. Their plan was to strip until they were about 28-30, and then "settle down" as it were, and find a career. Some of them had already been through college and had degrees. One girl claimed that one day she was going to go to Vegas and be a showgirl, and that was indeed her goal. I don't know if she would have stopped if a "regular" job had come her way. We never discussed it, but on a hunch I would have to say no. I mean she was honestly gung-ho about being a nude Vegas dancer. She certainly had the body for it. One of the dancers at my bar had just finished her term in the military. She figured she would put all that fitness and training to good use and be a stripper long enough to get some cash so she could get a place to live and then settle down and find a 9-5 job somewhere that paid decently and utilized her mental assets and military training, instead of her physical ones.

My point is, I guess, is that there is just as much variety among strippers as there is any other career, it's just more blatant about what it does. Did I make any sense? I'm feeling kind of logy at the moment. Stupid cold meds....

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SweetieBird
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quote:
Originally posted by LadyLockeout:
I was most certainly NOT "unskilled" and "uneducated". I needed a large amount of money quickly to pay my rent and bills, and this was a legal, logical way to get it. I also had another, "normal" job at the same time. Everyone who dances is not automatically a slut, prostitute, or desperate for money to support a drug habit, or believes money is "that important". Perhaps you should give some people the benefit of the doubt before making assumptions.

Okay -- prove me wrong:

You say you were NOT unskilled -- What was your skill? I mean besides taking your clothes off to music. (It obviously wasn't money management or living within your means....)

And I didn't say "uneducated" I said "undereducated." There's a difference. But you say you weren't "uneducated" -- what was your education, then?

I didn't imply you were a slut, hooker, or supporting a drug habit. Interesting that you came to those conclusions yourself. I said that if an 18+ year old woman chooses to strip based on her circumstances (unskilled/undereducated/I could add underemployed) it is both her RIGHT and her PROBLEM.

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LadyLockeout
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What are my skills? I have my own business making custom chain maille clothing and jewelry. I can wait tables, write databases, organize an office, make 3d models and graphic designs on the computers, be live tech support for various systems, work with horses, rewire a house, redo a roof, basic plumbing and maintenence. I can work on a car, I can work a cash register, I can mix damned good drinks at a bar, and many, many more.

In short, I can do a damned lot of things, and I can do them well, and I don't need someone like you with your prissy, holier than thou attitude condemning me because you don't like the fact that for a three month period of time when I was 19 years old, I needed money so I flashed my goods. Pull your head out of your ass, lady. You don't know shit about my life, therefore you have absolutely NO right whatsoever to say "you obviously can't manage money". As I said to Johnny a few posts earlier, I still do nude modeling for money on the side. Can you tell the difference between art and pornography, or am I still unskilled and undereducated because I take pride in my body?

I have plenty of skill and education, and I don't need to justify myself to anyone, least of all you. I am finished with this thread.

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Katesune: We still can't find the way to albuquerque, and glisp won't stop to ask for directions.
Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now

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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:
Okay -- prove me wrong:
You say you were NOT unskilled -- What was your skill? I mean besides taking your clothes off to music. (It obviously wasn't money management or living within your means....)
And I didn't say "uneducated" I said "undereducated." There's a difference. But you say you weren't "uneducated" -- what was your education, then?

I finished up my BA in marketing and started grad school while I was still stripping. So I was neither under-educated nor unskilled.
What's your skill (besides spouting holier-than-thou nonsense on message boards) and your level of education?

ETA: SPANKED!!!

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kmcm
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
quote:
Originally posted by Lydia Oh Lydia:
With respect to stripping being a legal career, it depends on which state and/or municipality in which one resides/desires to work. It is illegal in some places. More accurately, it is only legal in some places.

It is essentially legal everywhere. The degree of nudity is usually legislated. Some municipalities require the nipple to be covered. Some allow fully nude. But its still exotic dancing.

No to drag up a dead post, but exotic dancing is not "essentially legal everywhere." Where I live my county has 1 club. In a small town with two small car dealerships, a gas station, a church, all under an overpass.

When my hubster's friends wanted to get him a stripper for his bachelor party, they were repeated told that stripping was only allowed in this one club. Period.

km'if'n you want nekkid women around here, go to the big city, or the piece of nfbsk town"cm

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Jay Temple
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
quote:
Originally posted by Fowlplay:
The thing I find amusing here is that both parties that were former exotic dancers, don't like their job choices being looked down upon by 'morally superior' people, but they have no problem being morally superior to a prostitute.

Fowl"at some point, we're all hypocrites"play

Only in the sense that a pharmacist is morally superior to a drug dealer.
Can you please elaborate without drawing analogies?? I'm afraid that an analogy like that doesnt give a clear picture of why you think pharmacy/stripping is morally superior to drug dealing/prostitution.
Since Pretty Penny has not chosen to reply, I will say what I think she meant: A job that is legal is morally superiority to a job that isn't, but only in a limited sense.

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Mr. Furious
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Removed. Found the answer to my question.

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Pretty Penny
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Temple:
Since Pretty Penny has not chosen to reply, I will say what I think she meant: A job that is legal is morally superiority to a job that isn't, but only in a limited sense.

I didn't reply because I thought the analogy was fairly self-explanatory. The "legal" is by definition more moral than the "illegal".
And let me ask everyone a question -
Who here plays Grand Theft Auto? Halo? Fable? Final Fantasy? And how much do you spend every month/year on the role-playing fantasy games? Hundreds of dollars? What do you get out of it? Temporary satisfaction at best? Momentary escape from reality?

So explain to me how that's different from the men (and women) who go to gentlemens clubs and spend money to engage in temporary fantasy? And how is what I did any different from the video game programmers and designers?
Buying and selling fantasy, right?

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Temple:
Since Pretty Penny has not chosen to reply, I will say what I think she meant: A job that is legal is morally superiority to a job that isn't, but only in a limited sense.

I didn't reply because I thought the analogy was fairly self-explanatory. The "legal" is by definition more moral than the "illegal".
And let me ask everyone a question -
Who here plays Grand Theft Auto? Halo? Fable? Final Fantasy? And how much do you spend every month/year on the role-playing fantasy games? Hundreds of dollars? What do you get out of it? Temporary satisfaction at best? Momentary escape from reality?

So explain to me how that's different from the men (and women) who go to gentlemens clubs and spend money to engage in temporary fantasy? And how is what I did any different from the video game programmers and designers?
Buying and selling fantasy, right?

But, prostitution is also buying and selling fantasy, right? In fact, almost all of your arguments on this thread can be applied to prostitution, too.

And, the reason I asked the question was because there is differrence between drug dealing and prostitution. Drug dealers prey on their customers. They turn customers into addicts which ensures future business for the drug dealer. Sex is not as addictive as drugs. A prostitute doesnt make her clients dependent on her.

Besides, legality doesnt always equate to good morals. For example, I may take advantage of my colleague to get promoted, which is perfectly legal and IMO, immoral.

--------------------
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In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Pretty Penny
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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
But, prostitution is also buying and selling fantasy, right? In fact, almost all of your arguments on this thread can be applied to prostitution, too.

They can be applied to librarians as well.
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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
But, prostitution is also buying and selling fantasy, right? In fact, almost all of your arguments on this thread can be applied to prostitution, too.

They can be applied to librarians as well.
That's a non-sequitur
So, why is a librarian's job more moral than a prostitute's?

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In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Pretty Penny
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Thats not a non-sequitur. Librarians deal fantasy too, right?
Why is jaywalkng more moral than mowing down a schoolbus full of nuns?

quote:
Originally posted by kmcm the Thyme Bandit:
No to drag up a dead post, but exotic dancing is not "essentially legal everywhere." Where I live my county has 1 club. In a small town with two small car dealerships, a gas station, a church, all under an overpass.
When my hubster's friends wanted to get him a stripper for his bachelor party, they were repeated told that stripping was only allowed in this one club. Period.

Again, while I can't be certain, I'd bet that stripping is legal there just so long as she doesn't go completely topless/bottomless.
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Oualawouzou
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quote:
The "legal" is by definition more moral than the "illegal".
Depends on the law being discussed and how you define morality.

Stupid (and I'll be first to admit, extreme) example: in some places, two people who have sex before marriage might be killed. Some sets of beliefs make it the moral thing to do. In some countries, things like pre-marital sex, adultery and the like carry that penalty not only as the moral, but as the legal thing to do.

Think of all the debates here, in North America, about abortion and the death penalty. Both sides see their option as the more moral, regardless of what the law states.

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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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In a democracy, laws are essentially a societal determination of morality.
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Johnny Slick
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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While I mostly agree, I think that personal morality is sometimes totally different from societal morality. If you think a law is wrong, I believe that you are morally obligated to behave as if it does not exist. Some would go a step further than this and say that you're morally obligated to go out of your way to violate it.

And, of course, there is the argument that the law is not the end of morality. There's plenty that you can do without getting arrested that's not right to do. Walking up to old black people on the street and calling them dirty n-words, for example. Some people take what they deem to be moral from modern interpetation of a 2,000 year old book, others have their own source for morality. But very few people in my experience believe that the law dictates all that is immoral.

I'll just add for the sake of clarification where I am on this. I live by the credo that if you don't harm anyone else by your actions, they're morally okay, which puts stripping firmly into the "not immoral" column and prostitution maybe just a smidge into the "immoral" area because the reality of illegal prostitution is that it does cause harm to a lot of people. If it was legal, I'd stick it into the same no-harm, no-foul category.

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vampyrviolia
Happy Holly Days


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1. I seem to remember my Career & Family class got a hand out with the most money making jobs in San Diego. IIRC exotic dancing was fairly close to the top.

2. Got no problem with the the profession, myself.

3. As far as I'm concerned it does take skill to take clothes off to music and look good. Hell, I can't even dance with my clothes on to music. It sounds like a tough job, dancing around in heels or boots and trying to keep balance. Makes good money, but you have to have super coordination skills. There's also the matter of counting up tips at the end of the night, which involves math.

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Hey, check out my dads website -- www.eastcountyhwy.com
He grooms dogs too.

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
Thats not a non-sequitur. Librarians deal fantasy too, right?
Why is jaywalkng more moral than mowing down a schoolbus full of nuns?

Mowing down a schoolbus full of nuns is immoral because the nuns might get killed or hurt. Again, why is prostitution immorral?

If prostitution were legal, would you say that prostitution is moral?

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Dinner Theater
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Someone didn't realize she was talking about Stripping CARS?
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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
Mowing down a schoolbus full of nuns is immoral because the nuns might get killed or hurt. Again, why is prostitution immorral?
If prostitution were legal, would you say that prostitution is moral?

Maybe I'd be more receptive if I knew where you were going with this.

In other words.......

What's yer point?

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Waffles; stripped of their dignity to make more money...

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
Mowing down a schoolbus full of nuns is immoral because the nuns might get killed or hurt. Again, why is prostitution immorral?
If prostitution were legal, would you say that prostitution is moral?

Maybe I'd be more receptive if I knew where you were going with this.

In other words.......

What's yer point?

Seems like his point is; do you really feel that what is legal is therefor also moral?

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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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If that's the case, then I'm glad I didn't respond. These "what is morality" discussions are best suited for a college dorm room filled with post-bender philosophy majors at 2am before finals.
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nerdymcnerd
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Actually I think those kind of discussions are best suited for an educated group who enjoys debating philosophical issues.

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Skunks hate the sound of industry.

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
If that's the case, then I'm glad I didn't respond. These "what is morality" discussions are best suited for a college dorm room filled with post-bender philosophy majors at 2am before finals.

So you try to make a point by saying:
quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
In a democracy, laws are essentially a societal determination of morality.

But, you are now copping out of the discussion because morality should be dicussed in dorm rooms? Are you grasping at straws now?

Beach...seems like your position ran afoul of your own reasoning...Life!

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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