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Author Topic: Stripping can be lucrative, students told at career day
SweetieBird
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:


Hey, women who sleep around are sluts while guys who sleep around are studs. I'll make sure to hold my male friends who sleep around in higher regards than my female friends who do the same. Blame society, it's not my fault.

I don't really hold either male or female strippers in very high regard. Nor do I regard men who sleep around higher than women who do the same.

However, I don't really care how strippers are perceived by the public at large. Erasing the stigma isn't a priority in my personal life. But, if you care so much about strippers' images, good for you -- hold a parade or something. How about a bowl-a-thon?

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"Bad grammar makes me [sic]" -- seen on a t-shirt

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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:

However, I don't really care how strippers are perceived by the public at large.

That's strange. I seem to remember you devoting entire posts to the subject and using that perception to justify your own bigotry. I must be thinking of someone else.
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SweetieBird
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
Is that a nice way of calling yourself a hypocrite?

Yes, yes, Penny, you win. I'm a hypocrite because I believe the world is imperfect. You're an all-knowing stripper-with-a-heart-of-gold -- kind of a higher life form altogether. You win. Are you happy now, sweetheart?

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"Bad grammar makes me [sic]" -- seen on a t-shirt

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Hmm didn't Fried himself start the whole 'double standard' argument in a sense? It was made clear in every article on this that I read that he addressed his remarks about stripping exclusively to the girls. Would that be because he doesn't want to encourage boys to go into stripping but it's ok for girls? Or perhaps that woman actually can make a lot of money stripping where men are less likely to?

Or perhaps there are other explanations for this omission that are less than kind and speak to how he believes girls should value themselves as opposed to boys. Or maybe, more simply, he's just an idiot.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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SweetieBird
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:

However, I don't really care how strippers are perceived by the public at large.

That's strange. I seem to remember you devoting entire posts to the subject and using that perception to justify your own bigotry. I must be thinking of someone else.
What I mean (which is in the context of the quoted posts) is that I don't care enough about the existing perception to feel moved to want to change it.

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"Bad grammar makes me [sic]" -- seen on a t-shirt

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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
Hmm didn't Fried himself start the whole 'double standard' argument in a sense? It was made clear in every article on this that I read that he addressed his remarks about stripping exclsively to the girls. Would that be because he doesn't want to encourage boys to go into stripping but it's ok for girls? Or perhaps that woman actually can make a lot of money stripping where men are less likely to?
Or perhaps there are other explanations for this omission that are less than kind.

If he's going to address the girls, he should address the boys as well. Although there are certainly more opportunities for women, it's still a possible career choice for young men.
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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:
What I mean (which is in the context of the quoted posts) is that I don't care enough about the existing perception to feel moved to want to change it.

Please excuse me for continually summarizing, but when you use so many big words, it's hard for my under-educated brain to follow. But are you essentially saying that you're a bigot and you don't care enough to change?
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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
What I mean (which is in the context of the quoted posts) is that I don't care enough about the existing perception to feel moved to want to change it.

But you care enough about it to use the "social stigma" as part of your argument to justify your position? [Confused]

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nerdymcnerd
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Pretty Penny, there are times in life where it's good to let go. Let. It. Go. You seem to be trolling to continue this argument.

Sometimes, even often times, people here must choose to agree to disagree. When debates turn into arguments and neither side appears to desire a compromised outcome, it may be best to let it go. Be the bigger person and stop beating the dead horse.

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Skunks hate the sound of industry.

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SweetieBird
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Penny:
Please excuse me for continually summarizing, but when you use so many big words, it's hard for my under-educated brain to follow. But are you essentially saying that you're a bigot and you don't care enough to change?

Yes, I did use two three-syllable words just then....

I already stated clearly elsewhere and often in these pages that I'm comfortable with my views -- and if that makes me a bigot in this area, then I guess I'm a bigot. FYI -- I also said I'd rather be a bigot than a skank.

(edited to fix typo)

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"Bad grammar makes me [sic]" -- seen on a t-shirt

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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by nerdymcnerd:

Sometimes, even often times, people here must choose to agree to disagree. When debates turn into arguments and neither side appears to desire a compromised outcome, it may be best to let it go. Be the bigger person and stop beating the dead horse.

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
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SweetieBird
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
But you care enough about it to use the "social stigma" as part of your argument to justify your position? [Confused]

Because the stigma exists -- which has nothing to do with me. Even the International Union of Sex Workers acknowledges the stigma exists. One of their demands is for "an end to social attitudes which stigmatise those who are or have been sex workers."

I care enough about racism to speak up when someone says something racist in my presence. I don't care enough about strippers to defend them in the same way.

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"Bad grammar makes me [sic]" -- seen on a t-shirt

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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:shrug: I'm beginning to think Pretty Penny and Sweetiebird actually know each other, are one and the same person or are twins from some weird on-line soap opera...now if we can all just decide which one is really the Evil Twin [Wink] ...

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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SweetieBird
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
:shrug: I'm beginning to think Pretty Penny and Sweetiebird actually know each other, are one and the same person or are twins from some weird on-line soap opera...now if we can all just decide which one is really the Evil Twin [Wink] ...

You are right! We are really a 45 year old computer programing renaissance fair geek who still lives in his mother's basement.

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Pretty Penny
The Red and the Green Stamps


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For the sake of Snopes server space and everyone else's sanity, I'm out.
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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I assume this was addressed to me.

quote:
Originally posted by rotten little boys:
Do you think my kids don't know what a stripper is? Is that it?

You're the one that seems aghast at the thought of them finding it out. My argument has been that they probably already do know from sources such as Just 17 and Showgirls, and that accurate information isn't really a bad idea.

quote:
No, I know they will not go out and become strippers.
So why did you say that you were concerned with them learning this information because it would affect what they did "NOW"?

quote:
I think thier thought processes are not matrue enough to distinguish between "Hey, this will get me some money fast and pay for college" and "Hey! I can take allof my cloths off and never have to work again!"
Well, if you're not worried about them doing it now, and you believe that they're going to mature before they're old enough to do it, then what's your worry?

Besides, I think you're giving children too little credit.

quote:
Yes I know that is hyperbole, but we are talking about kids, not adults.
I know, but kids are very underestimated, in my opinion. And we're not talking about little kids. We're talking about young teens who are really neither kids nor adults, rather somewhere in between.

quote:
Was it appropriate for the information to be presented to 12-14 year olds?
In the context of it being one minute in amongst 50 minutes of information, I think yes.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:
You are right! We are really a 45 year old computer programing renaissance fair geek who still lives in his mother's basement.

You joke but we've had similar...

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Bug Muldoon
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:
quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
:shrug: I'm beginning to think Pretty Penny and Sweetiebird actually know each other, are one and the same person or are twins from some weird on-line soap opera...now if we can all just decide which one is really the Evil Twin [Wink] ...

You are right! We are really a 45 year old computer programing renaissance fair geek who still lives in his mother's basement.
Is that a quip or a confession ?

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All along the untrodden paths of the future, I can see the footprints of an unseen hand.

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rotten little boys
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Trollface, we disagree. We are not going to agree. I am tired.

Wana quit and come over for some cookies instead?

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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You know, out of sheer boredom, I was poking around old and musty areas of the board that haven't been posted in for some time... and I came across Trollface's post above, which--in light of later developments--made me laugh my ass off.

Anyhoo... never mind me. Go back to your regularly scheduled programming. [Smile]

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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NobbyNobbs
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by SweetieBird:
Because the stigma exists -- which has nothing to do with me.

But it does have to do with you, in part. You said, several times, that you consider female strippers to be skanky. This is, I'm sure, without knowing very many of them personally. It's a broad generalization, and it serves to add to the stigma.


On another note, I'm wondering if it isn't entirely possible, and even probable, that there's a whole subset of strippers out there who don't do it primarily for the money, or because there's no other choice, but because they actually enjoy doing it? I can imagine any number of jobs which I would never, ever consider for myself, but which some people do enjoy doing. I can easily imagine a woman (or man) who has a good body which they keep in fine shape, who is proud of it, and doesn't mind showing off what they can do with it.

That last sentence could apply to gymnasts, ballet dancers, and football players. Why should strippers be any different?

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Back in the days before electricity, we were forced to watch TV by candlelight.

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Chimera
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Wow this thread is back. Do you guys (in a general, generic, non-gendered sense) think it stipping is more about moves than about looks? Hell, I think I look halfway decent but there ain't no way I'd try to dance. Mostly because I can't dance rather than a fear of taking my clothes off, which I've done many times in the past. If I honestly thought I could some coin with it I might me signing up at the local titty bar but I just don't think I could "work it". Luckily there are other options when it comes to cashing in on some coin. I don't think most strippers are scum. In fact I think they are better con-artist than I'll ever be. I do question those that claim that stripping was the only choice for them (hell, how pathetic is that... tottaly not sexy in my book) but those that are capable, competent and sucessful get an adda boy from me and at least a fiver if I see them at a club.

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"The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?"
Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun'

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Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Meh. I knew a stripper once. She was nice.
I can see stripping as being a very degrading career if it's something you hate but have to do, but not if it's something you choose to do.

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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geminilee
The First USA Noel


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If we can play nice, do we get to come out of the corner?

I have known several strippers, of all types. Some actually did like it, they were rather exhibitionistic, and quite enjoyed the attention. Some did not enjoy it, and worked because they were single mothers, and had to have some good paying job to pay for child care (which can be ridiculously expensive.) Some did it because they were druggies, and wanted to make easy money so they could go score. I would never look down on them as a group, or even think of them as a group. Like any profession, they go into it for various reasons.

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"Accompanied by the ghosts of dolphins, the ghost of a ship sailed on..." Terry Pratchett

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Anyte
Jingle Bell Hock


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Ok, I've waded through this whole thread. I wanted to add my $1 (it is a thread on strippers, after all.)

I'm a 23 y/o female. I've only ever been to one strip club on one occasion (though I'm planning to go to another for my birthday in May.) I'm not sure if my experience was "normal" or not. There were about six women, each one performed for 2-3 songs, then the next woman took the stage. It was not full nude, they kept their panties and high heels on. I didn't find any of the performers skanky. They all appeared to be clean, well groomed, they smelled fantastic (there was some kind of an orange-blossom scented stuff that they must have all used).

She's not a skank, she's a person. It's a job. It's as much a career as being an athlete or a model, in that time and/or injuries can prevent you from keeping it. I want to be a massage therapist* I certainly hope that isn't morally objectionable to anyone here. Except for the part where I don't really care if my occupation is morally objectionable to a bunch of people I've never even met.

I think that, by the time a kid is old enough that it is an option, he or she will have realized that. And then we can direct them to this thread where they can read the debate and decide for themselves if that's an option they want to take advantage of. But I don't approve of presenting any career in a way that shows only the positive side of it. I understand advertising (I'm thinking specifically of military recruitment ads and literature,) but we are, I assume, talking about educating. To form an educated opinion, I think you need both sides.

hijack Actually, I think "obscure career day" would be more fun, more interesting and more educational. Pick out jobs that television/movie characters don't have, promote those. The kids would leave going "I never knew I could earn a living writing greeting cards!"
http://tinyurl.com/h3ppu /hijack

As for relative morality...it's relative. And everyone has their own. I'm stripping but at least I'm not a prostitute. I'm a prostitute but at least I'm not stealing. I'm stealing but at least I'm not selling meth. I'm selling meth, but at least I'm not taking off my clothes for money. Stripping is obviously the most legal, but that doesn't mean that everyone considers it the most moral. I certainly do. But not everyone. Some folks would rather have their daughters marrying a man just for his money. At which point, I feel she may as well be stripping. There are people who would rather EARN money, in any legal profession, than take charity. Most everybody's got some line they won't cross. That line being different from your line or my line doesn't make it wrong. That line being on the wrong side of the law does.

I'm not saying that prostitution, for example, is moral in places where it is legal and immoral in places where it is illegal. I find it to be immoral everywhere. However, I have no right...well, I have the right but I don't feel it is my place or priviledge to judge those who work as prostitutes in places where it is legal, provided that they work safely and are doing the job because they choose to, not because they feel their circumstances have forced them to.

Any-Get a Job-te
*Massage therapist NOT used as a euphemism for prostitute.

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Too broke to pay attention

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Bettie Page Turner
Happy Holly Days


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Ye Gods, DR...what have you done? ::grabs DR and shakes him:: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? ::runs off to find pitchforks and torches::

[Razz] [fish]

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You fail to consider, for such is the tyranny of fashion, that the swan is not a slim animal... -Jincy Kornhauser, Melinda Falling

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2ys4u
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Bettie Page Turner: [lol]

It'sss baaaaaaack.

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"Guns and butter."

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Just scanned this page and I gotta say "go me", clearly I was right, right I tell you right!! Um, about Pretty Penny I mean...

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Mad Jay
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Duh!! Please, Please. No one find the "cutting in line" thread

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Nico Sasha
In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel.

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
Duh!! Please, Please. No one find the "cutting in line" thread

You had to mention that. Like trying to hide a treat from a starving dog.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
A speaker who told Grade 8 students at a career day that they could earn a good living as strippers may not be invited back, the principal says.
It could be worse. He could have told them to go into politics, the music industry or some other kind of prostitution...

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/Troberg

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I haven't dipped in here yet - so here's my ten cents (cuz my two cents are free).

I've known a good number of strippers... off hand, about two dozen.

Some were skanks in ever sense of the word - and added to that was abysmal self esteem and even self LOATHING.

I've known some that were pretty average, if not just publicity whores (Look at ME!!!).

I've even known two that were very straight laced and VIRGINAL even (no, not REAL virginal, but had a strict sense of sexual morality). It was these two that I really found most appealing...

I can appreciate a stripper... "Ooh, she's purdy!" When I find a woman on stage "hot" is when she makes eye contact and SMILES. That, to me, makes her REAL.

These two, had Mona Lisa smiles - cuz they knew the truth - no matter how hard the guys tried, they weren't getting any...

Some of the girls loved thier job - some detested it. Some were unabashed man-lovers - others were penis-hating uber-lesbians.

It takes all kinds.

So, to throw a "standard" on it is ridiculous. Really, the only blanket statement you can fairly use is, "These girls show off skin."

And at $500+ a night for NOT screwing something - it may be a good career move!!

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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DesertRat
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Oh Jesus... I was just bored and making a smartass comment. I had no idea THIS was going to happen. I'm sorry... [Eek!]

Ummmm.... this is not the thread you're looking for... move along...

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High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler

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Class Bravo
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Agreeing with Malruhn--

I dated a stripper for a spell, and during that time I got to know her (and many of her co-workers) quite well. Making blanket statements about strippers is just not something that can accurately be done.

Some of them were college students. Some of them were high-school dropouts. Some of them didn't drink at all, and some of them were druggies. Some of them had kids at home, and some of them were married. Some of them had true aspirations for their lives, while some of them considered long-term planning to be figuring out whose house they were going to get drunk at next weekend.

It's just not possible to come up with an accurate stereotype.

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Class Bravo:
Agreeing with Malruhn--

I dated a stripper for a spell, and during that time I got to know her (and many of her co-workers) quite well. Making blanket statements about strippers is just not something that can accurately be done.

Some of them were college students. Some of them were high-school dropouts. Some of them didn't drink at all, and some of them were druggies. Some of them had kids at home, and some of them were married. Some of them had true aspirations for their lives, while some of them considered long-term planning to be figuring out whose house they were going to get drunk at next weekend.

It's just not possible to come up with an accurate stereotype.

I wonder how many had a career counsellor suggest that "stripping could be a lucrative career" when they were 13?

That's what the OP was actually about until "Pretty Penny" decided to make it all about "her".

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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