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Author Topic: Guns - can the topic be discussed rationally?
megaira
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I'm putting this here, in case it escalates into another flamefest, then hell, at least people expect it here.


Hub and I have different opinions on gun ownership. I'm not keen on the fact that we have a handgun here for "protection," but I'm comfortable with rifles. The handgun I can accept with the minimum allowance that a. it is either disassembled all the time and put away out of reach of kids, or b. it has a safety and lock on it.

Personally, I would not have the presence of mind to bother getting or using the gun if someone broke into our home. In most instances, I feel, by the time we knew we needed it, it would be too late to go get it. I refuse to keep it in the nightstand or near the bed for the obvious reasons.

My thoughts are, if someone's breaking into my house, I want to get *out* of my house asap and as far away from any confrontation possible. I've already assumed they've cut the phone lines and, I would not want to be faced with the choice to shoot someone. We have a dog who is pretty sensitive about anything she hears around the house, so, I'd hope she'd warn us in time for us to go out the window or the nearest door. Burgler is the same as fire in my mind - get away asap. I stopped viewing my home as a "safe haven" after we had an apartment fire years ago.

Hub, obviously differs. He was USMC and has trained extensively with weapons, he's a sharpshooter and has the ground in philosophy of "it better not be in your hand if you're not going to use it."

We have had one incident of it being misfired by moi. We also had an incident of what we thought at the time was a break in (I woke up to footsteps across the basement floor, and woke him up, we both saw what looked like a flashlight play across the bedroom doorway. It was *awful*). At that point, he got the gun, and I stayed back in our room hidden while he went through the house. We found nothing.

I've always thought it best to have a plan as to what you'll do, but, anything could happen.

His philosophy, btw, is not to protect our things, but us -our bodies.

I think this is what was so offensive to some about Tag's attack on gun ownership - it seemed centered on "well it's all just to protect your tv" which is not the case for many of us who allow guns in our homes. There really isn't anything of value in this home that has sentimental value to me that would be worth stealing. Anything worth stealing, can be replaced. The jewelry that has sentimental value is on my body, and frankly, I'm more concerned with the state of said body than whether or not someone has my rings. Rings can be replaced.

So. What do you believe, and can this be discussed without attacking the other side?

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I think it can - as long as all parties involved stay rational. However, there are good statistics providing whatever people want to spout from either side that leave it all up to whatever is in a person's heart.

Which means that it all comes down to what you believe. If you believe that it is a good thing, then you think it is a good thing. If you believe that it is a bad thing, then you believe that it is a bad thing. The rub comes when you try to convince the other side that your side is more valid - cuz it is really nothing more than opinion.

Good luck!

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Prussian Blue
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You're all idiots! Simpletons! Morons!
Oh sorry, thought this was the Flame War thread!

Prussian Blue
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- "What? I came here for an argument!"
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megaira
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quote:
You're all idiots! Simpletons! Morons!
Oh sorry, thought this was the Flame War thread!

*PUNT!*
*watches Prussian fly through the goal posts*

My team.


So about guns?

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John Stephens
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The laws of the State I live in and my own personal moral code permit me to use deadly force to protect myself and my property. I am prepared to hear arguements for a differing viewpoint, provided they're expressed in a reasonable polite fashion. This is not it:

"I don't give a shit about how hard you worked for all your stuff. I don't give a shit about your rights to kill. I don't care if it's even viewed as a non-crime in your region. What about, you're killing someone? You think it's ok to kill a person for stealing or attempting to steal or even just breaking and entering?"

When I am attacked, I fight back.

Now, as to the issue of defending lives vs. property. It's an unfortunate fact that criminals are becoming increasingly violent. What starts out as a simple burglary turns into a rape or murder. I am not willing to trust my life or the lives of my family to the good intentions of someone who steals for a living. If they're in my house, I'll assume the worst and shoot them.

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tagurit
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Since megaira brought my name into this thread, I'll post briefly for now.

My initial gripe was not only about gun ownership, but the type of mentality that finds satisfaction in a person being killed, and further contends they would do the same, even posed in a way to that makes one (at least this one!) think they relish the thought, look forward to their own day of glory. All this brought about in a thread that was titled something about foot in mouth. "Foot in mouth?" asks I. Yeah, the audience was misjudged. Imagine, you break into a group of people in shock and mourning an individual that had recently been killed and you not only express satisfaction on their killing, you proclaim you would have killed them yourself. I don't call that foot in mouth. Goes way beyond foot in mouth to me.

My complaint was about the type of mentality of a particular group of gun owners, those that become gleeful over the death of someone.

I went on to mention the fear I see in our society that drives people to buy guns. I mentioned that very few violent crimes are actually averted, but that many people are killed by loved ones in homes that keep guns. I mentioned most violent crimes are committed against people by people that are known to them.

Attack? I don't think so. Strongly disapprove, yes.

And now you know the rest of the story.

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tagurit
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quote:
Originally posted by John Stephens:
If they're in my house, I'll assume the worst and shoot them.

So, tell me how this goes, John. It's nighttime and you hear something downstairs. Do you grab your gun and stealthily head towards the source of the noise? Then what? Do you shoot into the dark? Do you flip the lights on first to see? Do you maybe say something to determine if someone is there and who it is? How about "Who's there?"

Sorry. Your good intentions at defending your family just got you dead. Unless, of course, you have a plan. What's your plan, John?

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I think just about any good debate topic that relies on opinion should (IMNSHO) fall into this category: It is the person.

If I can sit down with a person in a Denny's or some other "nice, cheap, family-type" eatery and discuss a topic with a person - and NOT get kicked out, and we both shake hands or hug afterward... and then agree to meet the following week to continue the discussion - then THAT PERSON is worthy of discussing topics like this.

It isn't really the discussion of a particular topic. Gun control, abortion, politics, welfare, religion... who cares. It falls to the person to discuss it rationally.

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Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
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One of the sad things for me about the gun issue is that I think it is possible to work out a middle position that would satisfy the majority of people. Some of the most rational and practical gun control proposals I've ever heard have come from avid shooters who are very serious about their Second Amendment rights. Unfortunately, the gun lobby tends to react very strongly against any restrictions, on what seems to me to be a fallacious (or at least overly paranoid) "slippery slope" argument, that accepting some restrictions now will lead to more later and the eventual ban of all firearms in private hands -- a position that I think is far in excess of the vast majority of gun control advocates. Opposing what seem to be even mild and reasonable restrictions (say, mandatory trigger locks, waiting periods, background checks, or the ban on "cop-killer" bullets) tends to promote the image of gun owners as irrational extremists in the mind of gun control advocates.

I think it is perfectly possible that we could work out something that would help reduce gun crime and accidental shootings while protecting the legitimate interest of lawful gun owners and meeting the constitutional test, and which would be acceptable to at least 75% of the population, if each side was just able to discuss its interests rationally and not engage in distrust and demonization of the other.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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I think that there is no actual evidence that supports either the "guns prevent crime" or the "guns cause more accidental injuries in the home" side.

Personally, there isn't a solitary thing in my home I am prepared to die for. If someone wants it so badly they'll risk prison for it, then, apparantly, they want it worse than I do, and they are welcome to it. That doesn't mean I won't do what I can to sic the justice system on them, however.

Now, if someone's going to mess with my family, forget a gun. I want the visceral, tactile satisfaction that could only come out of harming him/her with my own two hands. The hands-offedness of guns would deny me that satisfaction.

[ETA: I don't care if people wish to keep weapons in their home, so long as they are responsible about it. I am also in favor of gun registration, so I am truly a "Second Amendment Supporter, With Reasonable Provisions." In much the same way I am a First Amendment Supporter.]

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Chimera
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I pretty much agree with John Stephens. I really wish I had the training and abilty (both physical and mental) it requires to shoot an intruder. I'm a big one on know your target and never aim a fire arm at something unless you want it destroyed. My home was once burgularized when I was not at home (I actually wonder if my arriving back at the house might have stopped it as there were things on my front porch steps... like my clown marienette of all things... of course, they may have just chosen to leave such a stupid and scarey find behind). Anyway, I lost a lot more than my telescope and some toys (both mine and my childs) BTW: 4 teenagers were spotted around my house while I was gone so that might explain some of the odd thefts but sadly they were never caught. What I lost was my sense of security in my own home. I didn't give that much of a damn about my stuff (although I still feel really bad for my kid) but I felt extremely violated. I think no one could know what would've happened if I had actually caught them in the act. I can't assume they wouldn't use violence, they'd have more at stake than I would (after all they are not only defending the property but could face criminal charges and their loss of freedom as well). If an intruder is inside my home I will always assume the worst and use any means at my disposal to protect my family. The choice to break in was theirs and so are the consequences of such actions IMHO. I also think the general value of a human life starts to decrease when an individual makes the choice to rob and terrorize others. I respect states that allow citizens to use force to protect their property.

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What is the use of women?"
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megaira
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
I think just about any good debate topic that relies on opinion should (IMNSHO) fall into this category: It is the person.

If I can sit down with a person in a Denny's or some other "nice, cheap, family-type" eatery and discuss a topic with a person - and NOT get kicked out, and we both shake hands or hug afterward... and then agree to meet the following week to continue the discussion - then THAT PERSON is worthy of discussing topics like this.

It isn't really the discussion of a particular topic. Gun control, abortion, politics, welfare, religion... who cares. It falls to the person to discuss it rationally.

Yeah, I agree. Hub and I sit on polar opposite sides of a lot of "hot" topics. He voted completely opposite of what I'd have voted if I had citizenship here. I tend to fall into more "canadian" neutral to liberal territory (not hard left, just casually leaning that way), and he tends to fall into conservative (but not rabidly, luckily).

We can discuss this stuff with a good amount of self directed humor and without making it into an assault on the other's charecter. When I found out who he voted for, I joked he could go hunt his own roadkill for dinner. I wanted to give him a hearty thump over the head, but hey, we come from very different places and it's what he believes. If I really want to do something about it, there's paperwork to fill out.

The gun issue is something that we have to agree to disagree on and just hope that it doesn't come down to a bad situation one day where one of us is proven wrong the hard way.

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tagurit
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I am truly a "Second Amendment Supporter, With Reasonable Provisions." In much the same way I am a First Amendment Supporter.]

My sentiments, exactly.

What bothers me is that people are so afraid. Fear is the mind killer, someone said. [Smile] I believe it. Fear can strike people blind. Why do so many people have personal weapons in their homes? There aren't enough criminals out there to account for all the defense going on.

Owning guns is one thing. Being so in fear for your safety that you can't possibly consider not having a gun is another. I also see a big difference between owning a gun that you use for sport, and owning a gun with which you plan to kill someone.

For myself, I basically leave people alone and don't bother them. I don't bother them; they don't bother me. I don't hang around with criminal elements or involve myself in criminal activities. I secure my belongings with locks. I trust that I am safe. And, I get a good night's sleep.

That said, I think that most people forget about what it must be like to pull the trigger on a gun and end someone's life.

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Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
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Joe Bentley
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Well this is a touchy subject and as most of you know I'm not good at being subtle... but here goes.

I'm a gun owner. However I recieved military-level training with both of the weapons that are in my home. I did not purchase these weapons on a whim. I was 100% certain I was comfortable with the handling of these weapons before I ever touched one outside of a training setting. My training was not only in the handling of the gun but also in target identification and yes even the legality of when and when not to shoot. There are no other people who live in my home and yet both my guns are still kept locked up at all times. I fire them once a month at the shooting range to make sure they are in good working condition and that I am still able to handle them comfortably and safely.

I'm on the middle ground between Tag and John here. If I heard a noise in my kitchen in 3 in the morning I would probably stay in my bedroom, call the police, and not go investigate. Put I would remove my pistol from my gun safe and if my bedroom door opened I would give the person one and only one warning to stop and leave my house immediatly and if the they didn't I would see no moral problem with killing them right then and there. I would in absolutley no way, shape, or form get any satisfaction or pleasure out of killing someone in self defense. But at the same time I would feel no guilt at doing it nor pity for the person I killed. They put into motion the chain of events that lead to their death. They broke into my home, they broke they law, they threatened my safety. I would give them every reasonable chance to leave but that's it. I see nothing wrong with assuming that someone I don't know who is in my house might be a threat. As a general rule I don't get a lot of law abiding citizens rifling through my silverware drawer at 2 in the morning.

Let's not over simply this into "My stuff is worth more the the robber's life." Crap I don't own anything that's worth giving someone a papercut over. If I walk into my living room and there's someone climing out my window with my TV... well they are welcome to it, that's why I have insurance. I'm not about to double tap anyone over my Sony Trinitron. But if I walk into my living room and that same man is climbing in the window and has some sort of weapon... well then he is pretty much taking any risk of me shooting into his own hands.

If a person shots a robber for no reason other then defending his property is he wrong? I'll leave for more intelligent people then me to decide. But at the very least the robber has an equal or greater share of the blame, cause he shouldn't of been in the house in the firstplace.


Joe "I'm a gun owner and I'm not the NRA" Bentley

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megaira
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
If an intruder is inside my home I will always assume the worst and use any means at my disposal to protect my family. The choice to break in was theirs and so are the consequences of such actions IMHO. I also think the general value of a human life starts to decrease when an individual makes the choice to rob and terrorize others. I respect states that allow citizens to use force to protect their property.
I tend to think that by voluntarily choosing to break into my home...and especially should that person have a weapon...there is no reason I shouldn't assume their intent is to do me harm. In coming after me, the person has voluntarily waived their right to a fair trial, so to speak. I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt at that point.

At the least, they have decided to take risks in which they know they may lose their life. I don't take those risks with mine, and, I will fight to keep them from being imposed on me by someone else. It doesn't mean I'll shoot them to keep them out of my house - as I said, I don't have the training and probably would not have the presence of mind to even think of it in the moment. I won't stop Hub from shooting them, though. It is his choice to protect his life and his family in the way he sees fit, and his right to do so.

If someone comes up and grabs me in a parking lot, I have the right to do everything I can possibly do to protect my life. And, actually, regardless of the right to do it, I still should.

If a tire iron is handy and I have the presence of mind to use it, I'd LIKE to think I'd put it through their head. The sad fact is, I might not. Most of us are taught that it is bad to be aggressive, even when our lives are on the line -especially women.

My husband will never point a gun at someone he does not fully intend to shoot. That is a mental place I am not in. Whack 'em with a bat, yes, shoot them, no. I can't say, also, that I wouldn't feel horrible if I shot someone in self defense and killed them because I *did* take a life. But, emotion aside, again, I would logically feel that anyone else in the position had every right to do so and that they should NOT feel bad about it.

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Out of the Blue
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quote:
So, tell me how this goes, John. It's nighttime and you hear something downstairs. Do you grab your gun and stealthily head towards the source of the noise? Then what? Do you shoot into the dark? Do you flip the lights on first to see? Do you maybe say something to determine if someone is there and who it is? How about "Who's there?"
I think we've agreed that if someone broke into my house, I wouldn't go hunting for the robber, only if he saw me and threatened me would I use a gun.

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Duff Yazzie-Stephens
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, tell me how this goes, John. It's nighttime and you hear something downstairs. Do you grab your gun and stealthily head towards the source of the noise? Then what? Do you shoot into the dark? Do you flip the lights on first to see? Do you maybe say something to determine if someone is there and who it is? How about "Who's there?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think we've agreed that if someone broke into my house, I wouldn't go hunting for the robber, only if he saw me and threatened me would I use a gun.

Trying not to be biased, but I do have a strong opinion for protecting yourself when the time comes for you to do so. The use of guns when in this situation really to me seems irrelevant. Someone breaks into your house, and I see them our of the corner of my eye. The first thing that rolls through my mond is the fact that maybe this person has seen me, he is armed, and he wants me out of the way so he can continue what hes doing. So of course hes going to pull a gun of a knife or something on me. John had a good reasoning..."ifIm attacked I fight back" Human nature. The State of Arizona has a gun law that says if anyone were to break into your property with intent to harm, then you ARE allowed to shoot at will, because you cant sit there and assume this person has come to give you a special gift that you will treasure. This person WILL give you something, a short life if you make eye contact or movement that he can detect that someone else is there with him.
I am not sorry that I believe that I also value my life, I really dont care if someone were to come in and take something. They can be replaced. Family members in that situation cannot. This is also why I dont leave things laying around where people from the outside can see and take them. I learned that the hard way two months ago when someone stole my CD collection from the car one night along with my CDplayer. It pissed me off but they in the long run can be replaced.
But if someone were to break in your house, even IF you had the doors locked you have to assume a worst case sconerio. These people didnt intentionally kick my window in to make friends with me, Most likely if I sit there like a sitting duck I would get hurt, worst yet killed. So if someone where to enter my house like that I would have no second thoughts of shooting this person. This is all I have to say

Tag I think everyone is in aggreeance that you oughta stop harrassing people for having indivisual opinions of their own. You dont like people who carry guns either for self protection or for criminal use,,,whatever the case, someone out there is going to have a different opinion then you. A different belief system. This is a messege board where all opinions are around, some that agree with you , some that dont agree with you, just leave it. This is all I am going to say for now, ...until I get attacked by you again

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Christie
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quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
That said, I think that most people forget about what it must be like to pull the trigger on a gun and end someone's life.

Somewhat off topic but this reminds me of what I think every time I see some driver bearing down on jaywalking pedestrians and either slamming on their brakes at the 11th hour or swerving around them.

You don't think it might not spoil your day somewhat if you kill that guy even if he was jaywalking and you had right of way?

Grrr, sorry but I see that same mentality at work here and it bugs the hell out of me.

Okay sorry back to the regularly scheduled gun topic...

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Prussian Blue
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Duff, if by 'aggreeance' you mean 'agreement' then no, I'm not in aggreeance with you. She's expressing her opinion, you're expressing yours. Tag didn't mention your name in her last post so she wasn't 'attacking' you. Neither was she suggesting other people did not have the right to disagree with her.

Who's got the problem?

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Out of the Blue
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quote:
Someone breaks into your house, and I see them our of the corner of my eye. The first thing that rolls through my mond is the fact that maybe this person has seen me, he is armed, and he wants me out of the way so he can continue what hes doing.
Yes, I agree with that also, if you see him and he doesn't see you, take a shot at him, he probably wants to harm you.

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tagurit
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quote:
Originally posted by Out of the Blue:
quote:
Someone breaks into your house, and I see them our of the corner of my eye. The first thing that rolls through my mond is the fact that maybe this person has seen me, he is armed, and he wants me out of the way so he can continue what hes doing.
Yes, I agree with that also, if you see him and he doesn't see you, take a shot at him, he probably wants to harm you.
What if he's not armed? And if he doesn't have a gun in his hand, how do you determine he's armed? And if he's not armed and you shoot and kill him, what then?

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Oualawouzou
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I'm sort of on a strange middle-ground here. I am absolutely not interested in owning a gun and would almost certainly not fire on someone with killing in mind (at worst, I'd probably aim for a leg or arm, hoping to disable my opponent rather than kill him), but I cannot feel much pity for anybody getting killed while performing something illegal that made another citizen feel threatened for his or his family's immediate safety. *shrug*

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tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
I cannot feel much pity for anybody getting killed while performing something illegal that made another citizen feel threatened for his or his family's immediate safety. *shrug*

How about glee? Can you feel exuberant?

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Nope. I just don't feel much pity.

ETA: removed the rest as that analogy was open to way too much interpretation...

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Le champignon arrive.

Posts: 4372 | From: Quebec | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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Tag, can you point out where people have been gleeful and exuberant?

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Posts: 12086 | From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Joe Bentley
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
What if he's not armed? And if he doesn't have a gun in his hand, how do you determine he's armed? And if he's not armed and you shoot and kill him, what then?

Tag we're not talking about just shooting any random person on the street because they might be armed. The person is in your home illegaly. I don't think its all that unreasonable to assume the chance that they are armed and/or dangerous is a good bit higher.

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Posts: 8929 | From: Norfolk, Virginia | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
megaira
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
How about glee? Can you feel exuberant?
No one expressed "glee" or "exuberance" that I saw in the other thread, other than, apparantly, in your imagination.

I don't think anyone has expressed excitement over killing anyone, so far. There has been the vehement opinion that someone breaks into their house, they'll kill them. Being vehement is not the same as "gleeful."

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tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bentley:
quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
What if he's not armed? And if he doesn't have a gun in his hand, how do you determine he's armed? And if he's not armed and you shoot and kill him, what then?

Tag we're not talking about just shooting any random person on the street because they might be armed. The person is in your home illegaly. I don't think its all that unreasonable to assume the chance that they are armed and/or dangerous is a good bit higher.
Well, it wasn't you that I was replying to, but you're here, so you tell me. If you shoot an unarmed person in your house, what then?
quote:
Originally posted by megaira:
quote:
How about glee? Can you feel exuberant?
No one expressed "glee" or "exuberance" that I saw in the other thread, other than, apparantly, in your imagination.
I don't care what you think you saw or didn't see in the other thread, megaira. You obviously missed my whole point and thought I was discussing the pros and cons of gun ownership, which I was not. Either that, or I was attacking gun owners, which I was not. So, your viewpoint doesn't much matter to me.

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Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
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AAMAH

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Jenn
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
Well, it wasn't you that I was replying to, but you're here, so you tell me. If you shoot an unarmed person in your house, what then?

Personally, I'd call 911. Then I'd get a lawyer and face the legal consequences of my actions, if any.

Why, what would you do?

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Joe Bentley
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quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bentley:
quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
What if he's not armed? And if he doesn't have a gun in his hand, how do you determine he's armed? And if he's not armed and you shoot and kill him, what then?

Tag we're not talking about just shooting any random person on the street because they might be armed. The person is in your home illegaly. I don't think its all that unreasonable to assume the chance that they are armed and/or dangerous is a good bit higher.
Well, it wasn't you that I was replying to, but you're here, so you tell me. If you shoot an unarmed person in your house, what then?
I would feel terrible about it. But if they gave me reason to feel they were either armed or a threat (unarmed doesn't always mean not a threat) then I wouldn't feel guilty. Terrible yes, guilty no.

Of course this would very greatly depending on the circumstances. As I stated earlier I wouldn't go invistigate a noise in my kitchen at 3 in the morning. But if I happen to stumble into the kitchen for a snack at 3 in the morning and suprised a burgler who made a motion that I could logically assume to be reaching for a weapon or some other threatning gesture I would feel right in responding.

ETA: And what Jenn said. Better the be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

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Posts: 8929 | From: Norfolk, Virginia | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Jenn:
quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
Well, it wasn't you that I was replying to, but you're here, so you tell me. If you shoot an unarmed person in your house, what then?

Personally, I'd call 911. Then I'd get a lawyer and face the legal consequences of my actions, if any.

Why, what would you do?

Do you believe there would be no consequences to shooting an unarmed person in your home? I'm not really sure what the law would be on that one. I guess it depends on where this happens and the extenuating circumstances surrounding the shooting.

There was the rather infamous case in the UK where a farmer shot two young men who broke into his farmhouse. He was convicted mainly because the young man he killed was shot in the back which seemed to preclude a self defense, um, defense.

I have no idea how I'd deal with someone breaking into my home. I do know that upon more than one occasion what I thought was an intruder turned out to be a family member -- I wonder how often someone is shot in the mistaken belief that they are "bad guys" rather than someone who is just sneaking a midnight snack?

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Out of the Blue
This Akagai's in Love with You


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quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
What if he's not armed? And if he doesn't have a gun in his hand, how do you determine he's armed? And if he's not armed and you shoot and kill him, what then?

As Joe said, if he's in my house illegally, and he sees me, he probably won't say "Oh, sorry, I'll be on my way." and get out of the house. What he will most likely do is try to hurt me, disable me, so he can rob the house.

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Posts: 221 | From: Genoa, Illinois | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Jenn:
quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
Well, it wasn't you that I was replying to, but you're here, so you tell me. If you shoot an unarmed person in your house, what then?

Personally, I'd call 911. Then I'd get a lawyer and face the legal consequences of my actions, if any.

Why, what would you do?

I wouldn't have shot the man. So, I can't answer the question. But, let's go with it. What are the laws of your province? What if you shoot an unarmed man in your house? Of course we're talking legalities. How would you feel? How would it make you feel that you ended a life and that yours wasn't in danger?

I really don't feel you can assume that someone in your house without your permission is armed.

ETA Jenn's second paragraph which I'd inadvertently deleted out when I quoted her.

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Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
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AAMAH

Posts: 8532 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Out of the Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by tagurit:
What if he's not armed? And if he doesn't have a gun in his hand, how do you determine he's armed? And if he's not armed and you shoot and kill him, what then?

As Joe said, if he's in my house illegally, and he sees me, he probably won't say "Oh, sorry, I'll be on my way." and get out of the house. What he will most likely do is try to hurt me, disable me, so he can rob the house.
Are there any studies on the behavior of burglars caught in the act? My gut feeling is that most would try to get the NFBSK out before someone in the house calls the police or the noise they'd make wrestling alerts the neighbors. I think the ones who'd attack you (provided you're not standing between them and the way out) are in the minority.

ETA: most cases I read in the papers about burglars attacking people deal with burglars who knew their victims were home and went there with the purpose of forcing the victims to show them where they hid their valuables and to give them NIPs and such.

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Le champignon arrive.

Posts: 4372 | From: Quebec | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Duff Yazzie-Stephens
The Red and the Green Stamps


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passion blue all I have to say is butt out. I felt attacked by her last night, AND she attacked my husband as well, along with other people, YOU dont have no to tell me what opinion I should have, so again Butt out
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