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Author Topic: Reporters Smuggle Knives Onto 14 Airline Flights During Labor Day Weekend
Gwenfritz
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quote:
Originally posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
You go on to say I characterized your words "If you think airports (and aircraft) are secure, you're being lied to" following an article where the TSA is quoted explicitly stating that problems involving this very issue remained to be solved as hysteria, but didn't I in actuality say they fell somewhere in a continuum?

quote:
Originally posted by Zenknight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
That's at best an overstatement, and at worst hysteria.



But by saying that, you still implied he didn't know what he was talking about. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you didn't know he worked in aviation. But then you commented on his five years of experience in an "oh, that's all?" sense. That was cruel.

It astonishes and saddens me that you could be so casually dismissive of five years of experience in any field.

Gwen"I'd get upset too"fritz

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Kill Eye
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Maybe some of us should be searched before posting to online message boards. [Roll Eyes]
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ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwenfritz:
quote:
Originally posted by Zenknight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
That's at best an overstatement, and at worst hysteria.


But by saying that, you still implied he didn't know what he was talking about. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you didn't know he worked in aviation. But then you commented on his five years of experience in an "oh, that's all?" sense. That was cruel.

It astonishes and saddens me that you could be so casually dismissive of five years of experience in any field.

Gwen"I'd get upset too"fritz

Whether I knew he worked in aviation or not is irrelevant unless working in aviation uniquely qualifies one to contradict reality.

If someones says: "if you think airports and airplanes are secure then you've been lied to" even though there exists a quote saying "we still have work to do to make airports and airplanes secure" from the group responsible for it, then I'm hard pressed to see the lie.

I commented on the 5 years experience thing in a "cruel" fashion in response to the staement: "First you distilled years of experience in the aviation industry..." I don't know about you, but when I hear a general statement like that I tend to think I'm hearing it from someone with a significant number of years in an industry, not five--that's why "o, that's all?".

I don't doubt his experience in the field when he says that there are still significant problems to be addressed, in fact I have 0 years in the field and I believe the same, I just don't see the how the government is lying about it when what they say concurs.

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dofwai
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quote:
Originally posted by Beach Life:
Okay, assuming that I can rationalize with you, let's look at the facts:

1. Though it might appear otherwise to some, security is clearly not stopping weapons. Correct, it is not stopping ALL weapons. Do you therefore believe we shouldn't try to stop any?

2. Terrorists probably have figured this out the same many Americans have figured it out. Maybe, maybe not. If it wasn't splashed all over the media, they probably would have less chance of being aware of it.

3. Others, and I believe you fall into this category, either don't see the security problems or don't want to admit to them. Incorrect. I have said in several other posts that I do not believe that airports are 100% secure. I will say, once again, for the record: Airports are not 100% secure. They are probably more secure than they were.

4. The media does some tests and forces the American people to see that in fact statement 1 is true. The media does some unauthorized "tests" (although I would use the term "publicity seeking stunts") to point out instances of human errors in order to continue to sensationalize what most Americans already admit is a problem.

The end result, one would hope, would be better security. One would hope; I'm not so sure Explain to me again why this is a bad thing?

Why should these people be thrown in jail while it is the ignorance and complacency of others which put American lives at risk? They violated Federal Regulations, without legal permission or the knowledge and/or coordination with authorities.

Do you think the end result of thier report will be better security? Maybe, maybe not. I think it is also possible that it will give potential terrorists a certain level of confidence that they could do the same thing, thus under-mining the deterence value of the security measures Do you think terrorists are so dense that they didn't know this before and are now saying "oh yea, good idea, let's get right on this..." See my comments above...

Beach...let me get this straight, it is okay to take away liberties for ineffective security, but we should jail someone for point out the security is ineffective...Life!


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BeachLife
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Dofwai, now I get your point...

And we shouldn't be teaching sex education in schools because it just give the kids ideas.

I believe we are better assuming that we are dealing with sophisticated terrorists (never undersetimate your enemy).

It seems you believe that if we assume they are ignorant and don't tell them anything they won't figure it out for themselves.

Beach...but what media reports did they use to figure everythng out for 9/11...Life!

--------------------
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Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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dofwai
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quote:
Originally posted by Beach Life:
Dofwai, now I get your point...

And we shouldn't be teaching sex education in schools because it just give the kids ideas. This is relevant how?

I believe we are better assuming that we are dealing with sophisticated terrorists (never undersetimate your enemy). Agree, 100%

It seems you believe that if we assume they are ignorant and don't tell them anything they won't figure it out for themselves. Wrong. Why are you arguing that they must already know everything, so it can't hurt to tell them again? Is it not conceivable to you that maybe they didn't think of that particular technique, and by advertising a weakness that we are opening ourselves up to potential exploitation of it?

Beach...but what media reports did they use to figure everythng out for 9/11...Life!

I don't think we should give them ANY MORE HELP than we already do! [Furious]
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Ms.Hollywood
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What an out-of-control, ridiculous, pointless thread this has become! This is a Seinfeld-like thread now! [Thwack]
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dofwai
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quote:
Originally posted by Ms.Hollywood:
What an out-of-control, ridiculous, pointless thread this has become! This is a Seinfeld-like thread now! [Thwack]

Well, you know you don't have to read it.....

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded!"

(Ok, now you can all flame me for being insensitive)

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Jon Up North
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Ah my dear little ZenKnight. With your vast experience with aviation comming from the paper airplanes you threw around inbetween naps in your history lectures, I bow to your superior knowledge.

As for my miniscule experience in the aviation industry, this itself points to flaws in the system. For some reason the federal goverment included me in the consultations on airport security and passenger access policy. Clearly this was as flawed as the security clearances I have which allow me airside access. What is worse still is the access to confidential reports on aiviation security which are sitting beside me this very moment.

ZenKnight, I owe you a huge apology. You're right, airports are secure facilities.

Now little zennypoo. Regarding my coments on civil liberties. Lets practice a bit of that zen meditation to help you first clear your mind. Ohm....... Ohm..... That should do it, there isn't a whole lot of room up there to clear as it is. Okay, put down your lollypop and read... (remember... ohm...... ohm....)

When I was refering to civil liberties, I was refering only to the comment about giving up liberties to prevent deaths and how this contrasted with the previously commen american stand of giving up life to protect liberty. Nothing more.. Get it.. nothing more..

(ohm.. ohm..)

Okay Zenny, you can have your lollypop back now.

--------------------
We're not insured for pickles.

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Island Manta
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon If someones says: "if you think airports and airplanes are secure then you've been lied to" even though there exists a quote saying "we still have work to do to make airports and airplanes secure" from the group responsible for it, then I'm hard pressed to see the lie.
Something you’ve totally missed is the timelines involved with the airport security screening-in the US. It is not supposed to be fully staffed and functional until the end of the year.

Here is a progress report. As you can see it’s easily found by anyone on the internet. It makes me wonder what criteria those specific airports were chosen.

from the original article
The airports included the four at which the terrorists boarded flights on Sept. 11 last year: Newark International, Boston's Logan International, Washington Dulles International and Portland International Jetport in Maine, the News said.
The other airports were New York's La Guardia and Kennedy airports, Chicago's O'Hare, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and Santa Barbara, Calif.


From what I’ve read of that report, there haven’t been complete deployment of screeners at those airports, and the ones that have been deployed had been within the past two to three weeks.

Sounds like they’re trying to point out flaws in a system that’s not even completely functional yet, just to get a ‘sensational story’

-K "frequent flyer"

--------------------
"You never know when you will be attacked by a wild tortilla" - José Zavala
"Happiness isn't happiness without a violin playing goat"
Be good and you will be lonesome

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ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by Manta, Greater than Tuna:
quote:
posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon If someones says: "if you think airports and airplanes are secure then you've been lied to" even though there exists a quote saying "we still have work to do to make airports and airplanes secure" from the group responsible for it, then I'm hard pressed to see the lie.
Something you’ve totally missed is the timelines involved with the airport security screening-in the US. It is not supposed to be fully staffed and functional until the end of the year.

-K "frequent flyer"

Think you mean that for Jon.

Speaking of which,

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Up North:
For some reason the federal goverment included me in the consultations on airport security and passenger access policy.



Really? Was it to include an internet troll's point of view?

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Jon Up North
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Ah Dearest Zennypoo,

Did your mommy not love you enough when you were a child?

I must be one of those sleeper cell trolls considering I've been posting on snopes' various boards since you were 16.

--------------------
We're not insured for pickles.

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Island Manta
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
Think you mean that for Jon.

Actually not. You made your case (see my post above, but here it is again so you won't have to scroll up)
quote:
ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon If someones says: "if you think airports and airplanes are secure then you've been lied to" even though there exists a quote saying "we still have work to do to make airports and airplanes secure" from the group responsible for it, then I'm hard pressed to see the lie.
Actually reflecting that statement above versus security flaws are not LIES, but in fact what the reporters did was to point out a flaw that's not actually a flaw. I'm either having trouble actually articulating my point, or my point is flying over your head like a paper airplane (thanks for that visual, Jon...it's quite appropriate)

quote:

Really? Was it to include an internet troll's point of view?

I hope you've got your flame retardant undies on, because you're going to need them.

-K "going to hide in the pool now"

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ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by Manta, Greater than Tuna:
quote:
Originally posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
If someones says: "if you think airports and airplanes are secure then you've been lied to" even though there exists a quote saying "we still have work to do to make airports and airplanes secure" from the group responsible for it, then I'm hard pressed to see the lie.

Actually reflecting that statement above versus security flaws are not LIES, but in fact what the reporters did was to point out a flaw that's not actually a flaw. I'm either having trouble actually articulating my point, or my point is flying over your head like a paper airplane (thanks for that visual, Jon...it's quite appropriate)


The first quote in what I said is from Jon, the second is from the TSA. If the government is lying, it's a subtle one.

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Jon Up North
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Manta, I'm beginning to think that his mother weened him to early.

--------------------
We're not insured for pickles.

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Ms.Hollywood
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Can anyone tell me what this thread was originally about??? [Dumb]
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dofwai
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Ms.Hollywood:
Can anyone tell me what this thread was originally about??? [Dumb]

I can.

It's about reporters breaking the law to get a story (or to point out a problem, depending upon point-of-view), and whether or not that's the right thing to do.

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Island Manta
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
The first quote in what I said is from Jon, the second is from the TSA. If the government is lying, it's a subtle one.

I'm thinking someone needs to actually read the complete post before commenting...

You also interjected a comment as well. I never said the government was lying. What I said was...

The reporters are reporting things in a false & misleading manner. (*Edited to add: also in a highly illegal manner too)

The reporters have highlighted something that isn't really broken, per se...because it's still in the process of being fixed.

The reporters have tried to make a point that doesn't need to be made.

Read the information contained within the links I have provided and you might be able to grasp the concept....maybe even without your tin hat.

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Up North:
Manta, I'm beginning to think that his mother weened him to early.

I'm not really quite sure what to think...maybe...inferior tinfoil?

-K "That'll teach me to read the UBB Daily again"

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Ms.Hollywood
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quote:
Originally posted by dofwai:
quote:
Originally posted by Ms.Hollywood:
Can anyone tell me what this thread was originally about??? [Dumb]

I can.

It's about reporters breaking the law to get a story (or to point out a problem, depending upon point-of-view), and whether or not that's the right thing to do.

Wow, somebody still remembers!! [Laughing out loud]
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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
The reporters are reporting things in a false & misleading manner.
The reporters merely reported that current security is not working as well as some think. There is nothing false or misleading about this.

quote:
(*Edited to add: also in a highly illegal manner too)
I didn't know there were levels of legal and illegal. What makes somethng highly illegal versus just plain illegal.

quote:
The reporters have highlighted something that isn't really broken, per se...because it's still in the process of being fixed.
Which is it, not broken or being fixed? It can't really be both. I think what you mean is that authorities already know it is broken and are fixing it. The American people apparently didn't know that it was broken. This makes it news.

quote:
The reporters have tried to make a point that doesn't need to be made.
I think it is a good point. The airline are still not safe.

Beach...that's news to me...Life!

PS.
quote:
It's about reporters breaking the law to get a story (or to point out a problem, depending upon point-of-view), and whether or not that's the right thing to do.

The first post is just the article, which reports the ease at which security was breached, not a question as to the legality of the reporter's actions.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Island Manta
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Ms.Hollywood:
Wow, somebody still remembers!! [Laughing out loud]

Which is why I re-read it & posted rebuttal to Mr. ZKnight's *ahem* comments. In re-reading it, and knowing that *some* reporters can be sneaky just to make a point. I still think they should have to book thrown at them, because they had malice aforethought in committing a Federal crime.

-K "They'll no' know squat about shivs in prison"

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dofwai
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quote:
Originally posted by Beach Life:
The first post is just the article, which reports the ease at which security was breached, not a question as to the legality of the reporter's actions.

I'm going to hate myself for getting to this level...... but here goes....

Correct. The 2nd post questions the legality. When does a thread start, when an article gets referenced, or when a discussion starts about it?

I think this thread has degenerated to the point (once again) of arguing over how we argue. The original discussion has been completely masked by the quibbling and name calling. I also believe that some posters on this thread are being intentionally obtuse. Posts that speculate on other posters' upbringing and weaning contribute nothing to the discussion, which I still believe is an important one, of the propriety of reporters intentionally breaking the law for a story. If we want to get back to that discussion, I will participate. Otherwise, thanks for your input.....

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ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by Manta, Greater than Tuna:
quote:
Originally posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
The first quote in what I said is from Jon, the second is from the TSA. If the government is lying, it's a subtle one.

I'm thinking someone needs to actually read the complete post before commenting...

You also interjected a comment as well. I never said the government was lying. What I said was...

The reporters are reporting things in a false & misleading manner. (*Edited to add: also in a highly illegal manner too)

The reporters have highlighted something that isn't really broken, per se...because it's still in the process of being fixed.

The reporters have tried to make a point that doesn't need to be made.

Read the information contained within the links I have provided and you might be able to grasp the concept....maybe even without your tin hat.
-K "That'll teach me to read the UBB Daily again"

Why are you taking me to task on any of this? And what's the tin hat reference all about? Perhaps you should adjust yours or find a post where I've taken issue with anything you've just said.
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Jon Up North
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Which is it, not broken or being fixed? It can't really be both. I think what you mean is that authorities already know it is broken and are fixing it.
Some things are being fixed and it will become increasingly difficult for passengers to breech terminal security. That said, even when all the current proposals are implimented, there will stil be small holes in the security which could be breeched by someone who spent a bit of time investigating the matter. Sadly, one conclusion the industry has reached is that the only way to ensure total security would also ensure the demise of the industry as a whole.

The other problem that is acknowledged but only been recently addressed is airside access as it pretains to nonpassengers. It would be prohibitivly expensive to screen all employee airside access (take your standard fare and add at least one zero before the decimal place).

Then as well easiest way to breech security is to not go through security.

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We're not insured for pickles.

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Island Manta
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Beach Life:
The reporters merely reported that current security is not working as well as some think. There is nothing false or misleading about this.

The way they chose their targets was. It makes one wonder what would have happened had they chosen different airports that had half decent security already in place. It didn't take me long to find the list of airports who had increased measures in place. I'm quite sure reporters have better google skills than I.

quote:
I didn't know there were levels of legal and illegal. What makes somethng highly illegal versus just plain illegal.
The cost of the punishment [Wink]

quote:
Which is it, not broken or being fixed? It can't really be both. I think what you mean is that authorities already know it is broken and are fixing it. The American people apparently didn't know that it was broken. This makes it news.
From the events last September that brought on increased security, what was perceived as being safe was obviously NOT safe. Remember that old adage of “hindsight is 20/20”? More measures have been put in place (which means –to me anyway- it’s not really broken, just being improved) and being fixed-correcting problems that existed before last September. So in essence it’s 2 different things that are made to look like one…(again, to me any way)

quote:
I think it is a good point. The airline are still not safe.
Well, it all rests on the screeners and how well they’re trained. But as long as there are people who want to commit hijackings, there will be ways to get weapons in planes. What will be next to be banned? Writing pens? “They can poke your eye out!” and when there’s enough force behind them, they probably will hurt. Never having actually used a pen as a weapon PERSONALLY, I can’t actually say how much force though [Wink] .

I’m thinking it’s agreed there are flaws in the security system. There’s not really any reason for reporters to go about making a Federal case…NOW. Next year, after the deadline for compliance has been passed, THEN it should be looked into. At that time everyone should be in compliance with the new rules. As of now, not all airports are….

-K

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Island Manta
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by ZenKnight, Jaded Desert Dragon:
Why are you taking me to task on any of this? And what's the tin hat reference all about? Perhaps you should adjust yours or find a post where I've taken issue with anything you've just said.

Well, lets see...

First you surmised I misposted something to your attention that you felt I may have meant for Jon....probably an honest mistake on your part, because I had a double quote in there. Your quote included Jon's, a piece of the article as well as a comment made by you at the very end.

You seem to see a conspiracy where there probably isn't one. It's also quite obvious had you bothered to read the information I provided you would also have realized I was trying to show you HOW there wasn't really a conspiracy. Your other posts in this thread have also shown a bent toward a CS

And I don't wear tin hats, so there's nothing to adjust...but my dive mask-and there's certianly no tin there...

-K

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
The way they chose their targets was. It makes one wonder what would have happened had they chosen different airports that had half decent security already in place. It didn't take me long to find the list of airports who had increased measures in place. I'm quite sure reporters have better google skills than I.

According to the article: The airports included the four at which the terrorists boarded flights on Sept. 11 last year: Newark International, Boston's Logan International, Washington Dulles International and Portland International Jetport in Maine, the News said.

It seems to me those are the airports one would expect to have increased security. It certainly is news to me that the airports were terrorists got past security, hijacked planes and killed thousands still haven't improved security enough to stop this from happening again.

quote:
Well, it all rests on the screeners and how well they’re trained. But as long as there are people who want to commit hijackings, there will be ways to get weapons in planes. What will be next to be banned? Writing pens? “They can poke your eye out!” and when there’s enough force behind them, they probably will hurt. Never having actually used a pen as a weapon PERSONALLY, I can’t actually say how much force though.
I agree with that. So then it will never be 'fixed', at least not with the method they are using. As I've posted before, the small weapons issue was already solved when the passengers on flight 93 fought back.

quote:
I’m thinking it’s agreed there are flaws in the security system. There’s not really any reason for reporters to go about making a Federal case…NOW. Next year, after the deadline for compliance has been passed, THEN it should be looked into. At that time everyone should be in compliance with the new rules. As of now, not all airports are….
I find it fascinating that nobody is really saying anything about the fact that it will be another year before things are 'safe'. Probably because they don't want the average American to know that the airlines aren't still minimally safe.

Once again it seems like the story was news. Freedom of the press allows them to publish this story. Many Americans, including myself, found it interesting and informative. If you want to track down the reporters and throw them into jail, be my guest.

Beach...killing the messanger has been tried before...Life!

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Island Manta
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Beach Life:
It seems to me those are the airports one would expect to have increased security. It certainly is news to me that the airports were terrorists got past security, hijacked planes and killed thousands still haven't improved security enough to stop this from happening again.

Beach...killing the messanger has been tried before...Life!

This is a document with progress made to date on the upgraded screening measures

Some of the ones targeted only had partial upgrades in place. It's a pain to wade through, so get your magnifying glass [Wink]

(edited to add: Freedom of the press allows them to publish the story, yes...but the way they GOT the story was illegal. Sort of like how the police can't take an entrapment case to court...and if I was woried about safe do you think I'd still be flying? or diving? [Big Grin] )

-K

Posts: 3569 | From: USVI | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Does this sort of act (smuggling banned items onto a plane) have a statute of limitations?

I mean, good cause or no, it's still an illegal act that they've now confessed to.

Not to mention the laugh potential a dozen journalists going to jail would generate for me.

Other businesses routinely hire folks to bust their security... like banks and computer systems. They do this so that they can make it harder for people who they DON'T hire to evade security. I don't see why the same thing can't apply here.

First "'Journalistic integrity' apparently doesn't extend to not committing crimes to get material for a story" of Two

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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So razor blades are OK? Why weren't these clowns searched?

Jet Diverted After Strange Behavior

One year later and nothing's changed. The whole security thing is a f'ing joke.

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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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All this talk about the reporters' breaking the law makes me ask: What law? Is it illegal to have such things on the plane? Is it illegal to go past the screeners with a pocket knife or a corkscrew? Is it illegal to be at the boarding gate with such items? What, precisely, if the offense here?

Do airlines always arrest and charge such people? Should we demand that the airlines arrest the old lady who tried to "smuggle" airboard her knitting needles? How about the woman with her nail file? Should I have been taken into custody when they found not one, but two nail clippers in my carry-on bag?

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by hoitoider:
So razor blades are OK? Why weren't these clowns searched?

Jet Diverted After Strange Behavior

One year later and nothing's changed. The whole security thing is a f'ing joke.

The average disposable razor can in no way be considered a weapon. It is difficult to draw blood, even then at best it will make a superficial wound.

Beach...straight razors are another thing...Life!

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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Jon Up North
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Pogue asked if there were specific laws in this matter. There are and they are laid out in the FARs. (Section 129.27, section 135.119, and an addendum in section 121.575). Penalties IIRC are up to a $50,000 fine and up to 5 years in prison.

As for the razorblade being insufficient to draw blood, man you should see my face if I shave before I have a coffee.

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We're not insured for pickles.

Posts: 2358 | From: Fort McMurray, Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Up North:
Pogue asked if there were specific laws in this matter. There are and they are laid out in the FARs. (Section 129.27, section 135.119, and an addendum in section 121.575). Penalties IIRC are up to a $50,000 fine and up to 5 years in prison.

Jon, are those U.S. or Canadian laws? And can you provide a cite.

Because the earlier link back on page 1 to a U.S. transportation site made it appear that enforement was up to the individual officers on duty. I know that all violations are not cited. What I'd like to know is what, exactly, U.S. law says in the matter, and how much discretion screeners have.

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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Jon Up North
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Pogue those are FARs which are American laws. Canadian rules are laid out in the CARs (Canadian Aviation Regulations) and the equivalent Canadian regulations are laid out in Section 705 available at the Ministry of Transport's website.

If you are interested in learning about your governments Federal Aviation Regulations you can read them online at http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

To find out more about the regulations of your friendly neighbors to the north, please visit http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/CARS/index.htm

I should also mention that part of my job is to ensure my company acts in accordance with the applicable CARs CASSs and FARs as laid out in our AOC.

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We're not insured for pickles.

Posts: 2358 | From: Fort McMurray, Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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