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Author Topic: Al Gore, non-environmentalist
Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Doesn't Al Gore have lifetime SS protection? I don't think they want him flying commercial.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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OrsonWelles
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
Doesn't Al Gore have lifetime SS protection? I don't think they want him flying commercial.

Is that another UL I can smell? [Razz]
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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by OrsonWelles:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
Doesn't Al Gore have lifetime SS protection? I don't think they want him flying commercial.

Is that another UL I can smell? [Razz]
Not even a UL, just wrong. The president and first lady have protection for ten years, though it was formerly lifetime. This can be declined as well. I don't know that they run the lives of the former presidents either, just protect them.

--------------------
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Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Jonny T
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Johny T the reason i find it troubleing that you dont care what Al gore does is that you made it sound like you dont care if someone is telling you to do something yet they cant follow their own advice just sounded like you would follow anyone wether or not they were doing what they asked you to do.
Where did you get the idea that I "follow" Al Gore or do what he tells me?

I agree with some of what he says and feel he's fulfilling a useful role in getting information out. That's all.

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snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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quote:
Doesn't Al Gore have lifetime SS protection? I don't think they want him flying commercial.
Former vice-presidents don't get Secret Service protection (unless they're candidates for vice-president or president in an upcoming general election).

- snopes

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snopes
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quote:
Johny T the reason i find it troubleing that you dont care what Al gore does is that you made it sound like you dont care if someone is telling you to do something yet they cant follow their own advice just sounded like you would follow anyone wether or not they were doing what they asked you to do.
So, by your logic, one should never buy exercise equipment from a company run by a CEO who is out of shape.

quote:
I have found in many articles and news stories one of which i linked to that he has two homes one at about 10,000 square feet and the other at 4000.
And? Would those homes be using fewer resources if they were owned by someone else?

quote:
Your point "the day I sat down next to Al Gore in an airplane might just be the day I start listening." I agree with totally. He also would be able to reach more people flying commercially as he would have a captive audience he could share his views with.
Yeah, that certainly sounds like the most environmentally-friendly way to get the word out that I can think of: Take thousands of commercial flights in order to speak to one or two seatmates at a time.

- snopes

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Ledfeather
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I believe Al Gore actually lives a zero emissions life style. He does this by using a company like TerraPass. They take the amount of CO2 that you produce and assign a dollar amount to it this money is used to fund zero emissions technology. Sadly I can't find any link mentioning what company Al Gore uses the Google is not with me tonight but if I remember correctly he mentions it in the movie.

As for the Lincoln that Gore drives in the movie, I am guessing it's probably a rental and they got a large car to fit Al Gore and the entire camera crew and sound guys in the vehicle.

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There is absolutely no evidence that life is meant to be taken serious.

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by jw:
My brother is a delegate in Friends of the earth. They hold global conferences every year and the delegates have to get there somehow. Does this negate their message too? ....

All depends on how they get there. If they all fly in on private jets, I'm not so impressed. If they take the train, it's a whole different story.
Since it's a global conference, at least some of the attendees would, I imagine, be unable to take the train. [Wink]

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Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
Johny T the reason i find it troubleing that you dont care what Al gore does is that you made it sound like you dont care if someone is telling you to do something yet they cant follow their own advice just sounded like you would follow anyone wether or not they were doing what they asked you to do.
So, by your logic, one should never buy exercise equipment from a company run by a CEO who is out of shape.
Nor should you eat at a restaurant with a skinny chef. [Big Grin]

--------------------
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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The Catholic Church must not be sincere in wanting to reduce poverty, because they spend so much money on cathedrals. If they really wanted to help the poor, they'd sell the Vatican and other palaces and donate the money. Right?

Stupid argument. Usual suspects.

Silas

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
If they really wanted to help the poor, they'd sell the Vatican and other palaces and donate the money.

I'd go for that.

In fact, I'd buy the Vatican and turn it into the rockingest after-hours club in Rome!

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by jw:
My brother is a delegate in Friends of the earth. They hold global conferences every year and the delegates have to get there somehow. Does this negate their message too? ....

All depends on how they get there. If they all fly in on private jets, I'm not so impressed. If they take the train, it's a whole different story.
Since it's a global conference, at least some of the attendees would, I imagine, be unable to take the train. [Wink]
You did notice that there were other options than just the two I mentioned right? I never stated that they should all take the train.

quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
The Catholic Church must not be sincere in wanting to reduce poverty, because they spend so much money on cathedrals. If they really wanted to help the poor, they'd sell the Vatican and other palaces and donate the money. Right?

Stupid argument. Usual suspects.

Silas

Last I checked the Catholic church was about more than ending world poverty. But, now that you mention it I see a lot of irony in building a multi-million dollar cathedral and preaching that people should give money to the poor.

Honestly, maybe I just expect more out of my leaders than you do Silas. Though 'stupid argument' doesn't really impress me in discussing it with you much. That particular rebuttal doesn't exactly put you in the company of the thoughtful and wise.

Beach...I guess I would expect more out of you too...Life!

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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
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Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
Last I checked the Catholic church was about more than ending world poverty. But, now that you mention it I see a lot of irony in building a multi-million dollar cathedral and preaching that people should give money to the poor.

Honestly, maybe I just expect more out of my leaders than you do Silas. Though 'stupid argument' doesn't really impress me in discussing it with you much. That particular rebuttal doesn't exactly put you in the company of the thoughtful and wise.

Beach...I guess I would expect more out of you too...Life!

George W. Bush has talked many times about reducing unemployment...yet, with all his money, he hasn't personally hired hundreds of unemployed Americans to do tasks around his estate. Nope, instead of hiring an unemployed father of three and giving him a decent wage with health benefits, he insists on clearing those brush piles from his land himself. What a hypocrite. I expect more from my world leaders.

--------------------
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
Doesn't Al Gore have lifetime SS protection? I don't think they want him flying commercial.
Former vice-presidents don't get Secret Service protection (unless they're candidates for vice-president or president in an upcoming general election).

- snopes

Well my actual point was that he is a high profile person whose safety is probably pretty hard to maintain. Whether or not his security is provided by the Secret Service or a private security company, they need to be careful of who they allow him to be up close and personal with.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Al Gore's travel is 100% carbon neutral. Part of the budget of the film was spent on carbon offsets for the jet, car, and hotels associated with the production of the film. He also does the same for his book, speaking venues, and personal life. There are environmental companies that scrub carbon dioxide out of the air, binding the carbon and releasing oxygen. Its impossible to have zero ecological impact, but its not impossible to offset the negative with an even greater positive impact.

He's also donating the profits from his book and film, and makes donations to environmental charities from his other income. He is not obscenely wealthy, nor does he live an exorbitant lifestyle. He lives an upper middle class lifestyle that is quite tame for a national politician on either side. I've walked by his old Arlington home, and its not anything you'd pick out as luxurious. He reported a net worth of under a million dollars around the 2000 election, which is comfortable, but far from rich. You probably know doctors, dentists, lawyers, retirees, even just homeowners with more, and they probably aren't living like kings either. He's making more these days (net worth of a few million), but I don't see any evidence that he has scaled up his lifestyle any, unless you can introduce some. He is no more wasteful than most other politicians, and much less so than many, and he certainly doesn't deserve criticism for having a normal life given all the positive contributions he's made.

If you'd bothered to check rather than assuming rumors must be true, then you'd know your complaints have no merit.

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Jonny T
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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just to throw another bit into the mix, carbon offsetting itself is extremely flawed (see here for a more in-depth examination), and arguably does more harm than good in some situations.

--------------------
Hello, I love you - won't you tell me your name?
Hello! I'm good for nothing - will you love me just the same?

Greetings from the dark side...

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by jw:
My brother is a delegate in Friends of the earth. They hold global conferences every year and the delegates have to get there somehow. Does this negate their message too? ....

All depends on how they get there. If they all fly in on private jets, I'm not so impressed. If they take the train, it's a whole different story.
Since it's a global conference, at least some of the attendees would, I imagine, be unable to take the train. [Wink]
You did notice that there were other options than just the two I mentioned right? I never stated that they should all take the train.
You did notice the [Wink] , denoting a joke, didn't you? No? How about this one: [Roll Eyes]

Lighten up.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by jw:
My brother is a delegate in Friends of the earth. They hold global conferences every year and the delegates have to get there somehow. Does this negate their message too? ....

All depends on how they get there. If they all fly in on private jets, I'm not so impressed. If they take the train, it's a whole different story.
Since it's a global conference, at least some of the attendees would, I imagine, be unable to take the train. [Wink]
You did notice that there were other options than just the two I mentioned right? I never stated that they should all take the train.
You did notice the [Wink] , denoting a joke, didn't you? No? How about this one: [Roll Eyes]

Lighten up.

Oops sorry, my bad. [fish]

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Buzzkiller
Deck the Malls


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I for one would not want to share a commercial flight with any high-profile politician. I have enough security issues to worry about, thank you.
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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
Doesn't Al Gore have lifetime SS protection? I don't think they want him flying commercial.
Former vice-presidents don't get Secret Service protection (unless they're candidates for vice-president or president in an upcoming general election).

- snopes

Well my actual point was that he is a high profile person whose safety is probably pretty hard to maintain. Whether or not his security is provided by the Secret Service or a private security company, they need to be careful of who they allow him to be up close and personal with.
Mr. Gore teaches (taught?) at the university I went to, and I attended a couple of his lectures. As far as I noticed, there were no visible security presence.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Jonny, the cites you provided are also against any nuclear power, which indicates that they are not very pragmatic environmentalists. They also hate banks, corporations, capitalism, technology, the evil first world, and any reality based solutions for moving forward. We all know there are extremists on either side, but their claims must be taken with a grain of salt. Gore is a far more practical moderate. Planting forests is not a bad thing, nor is it the only form of carbon credit.
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Jonny T
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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yes, because clearly, to be a good environmentalist you've got to support creating nuclear waste [Roll Eyes]

I never said planting forests was a bad thing, for ****'s sake. however, as a means to combat carbon emissions its usefulness is limited at best. and the articles, if you actually bother to read them rather than dismiss as "eww dirty hippie", go into the science.

essentially the reasoning seems to be: trees are part of the natural carbon cycle in which carbon is absorbed by trees from the atmosphere and is in turn released back into the atmosphere through when the trees (or leaves etc.) decompose. fossil fuels release carbon which has been dormant - ie out of the cycle - for a long time into the atmosphere, altering that balance and changing the cycle.

planting more trees allows more carbon to be stored. however:

- the carbon stored in the trees is temporary, and will be released back into the atmosphere
- trees take time to grow, particularly when growing large trees on a mass scale.
- intensive tree-planting projects often cause or exacerbate local problems

if anyone with more insight than I could contribute on carbon sinks etc. it'd be much appreciated as I've heard arguments both for and against.

- Jonathan

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
Oops sorry, my bad. [fish]

Quite all right.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Jonny T:
- the carbon stored in the trees is temporary, and will be released back into the atmosphere
- trees take time to grow, particularly when growing large trees on a mass scale.
- intensive tree-planting projects often cause or exacerbate local problems

I do admire how the first site you linked to was able to spin these three facts into a list of 10.

--------------------
IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Jonny T
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I'm glad you find "spin" so admirable.

--------------------
Hello, I love you - won't you tell me your name?
Hello! I'm good for nothing - will you love me just the same?

Greetings from the dark side...

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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Jonny T:
yes, because clearly, to be a good environmentalist you've got to support creating nuclear waste [Roll Eyes]

No, not to be a stupid environmentalist you don't. To be a pragmatist, you do. Because they are much better than the alternatives of fossil fuels. Clean renewable sources are not going to produce enough fast enough to meet all of our needs. And I think you'll find that if you use the same critical eye you have for the evils of trees, you'll find that solar, hydroelectric, and wind power all have non-trivial ecological impact of their own.

Its very very easy to be anti-everything and point out the flaws in everything. But at the end of the day, anti-everything is not a viable policy. You need to pick something that works or you've got nothing, and the other side wins by default. That means picking the least flawed option out of a lot of flawed options. It doesn't mean you have to stick with it forever, but you do have to stick with it until you can make something better work.

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3rdshifter
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Eratta: You say that "Al Gore's travel is 100% carbon neutral. Part of the budget of the film was spent on carbon offsets for the jet, car, and hotels associated with the production of the film."
First off if my facts are wrong as you claim prove it.

Second back your facts up as I have done.

Third throwing money at something cures it? I think not. Its merely an example of Symbolism over substance.


Snopes : No I wouldnt buy excercise equipment from someone overweight and neither would you. Thats why All the equipment hawked on TV or in the stores Has super fit models poseing with the equipment. Even though we all know the models dont use it and probably saw it for the first time the day of the shoot. But we buy it because we want to look like the models who sold us the equipment.
Instead we get a very expensive Clothesline.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by 3rdshifter:
Eratta: You say that "Al Gore's travel is 100% carbon neutral. Part of the budget of the film was spent on carbon offsets for the jet, car, and hotels associated with the production of the film."
First off if my facts are wrong as you claim prove it.


What you argue as "fact" is not necessarily so.

quote:
Second back your facts up as I have done.

Here is one article about carbon neutrality.
A second
A third


quote:
Third throwing money at something cures it? I think not. Its merely an example of Symbolism over substance.

In your opinion.


quote:
Snopes : No I wouldnt buy excercise equipment from someone overweight and neither would you. Thats why All the equipment hawked on TV or in the stores Has super fit models poseing with the equipment. Even though we all know the models dont use it and probably saw it for the first time the day of the shoot. But we buy it because we want to look like the models who sold us the equipment.
Instead we get a very expensive Clothesline.

How about a message from an actively drinking alcoholic about the dangers of addiction?

Sometimes, the purpose of a person's life may be to be a warning for others. Not that that is the case with Mr. Gore.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by 3rdshifter:
Snopes : No I wouldnt buy excercise equipment from someone overweight and neither would you. Thats why All the equipment hawked on TV or in the stores Has super fit models poseing with the equipment. Even though we all know the models dont use it and probably saw it for the first time the day of the shoot. But we buy it because we want to look like the models who sold us the equipment.
Instead we get a very expensive Clothesline.

So...your philosophy seems to be working really well for you, then?

Me? I tend to focus on the quality of the product instead of the characteristics of the spokesperson. I wind up with fewer over-priced clotheslines that way.

--------------------
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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As I said many posts ago, it's a matter of what Al Gore's goals are. If he wants to win new people over to his view, then living a more environmentally friendly life would be a good start. So, he's doing enough to make the people who already agree with him continue to agree with him, big deal. I'm glad you're all nodding together it must be reassuring. But, did you want to bring a few more people onboard to accomplish something, or just pat each other on the back for being 'concerned about the environment'?

But, rather than addressing that point, I suppose it's easier and much more fun to throw out bad anaologies about the Catholic church selling the Vatican or George Bush hiring someone to do his recreational activty.

Beach...if you really supported bricklayers you would brick up all the windows and doors in your house...Life!

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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by 3rdshifter:
Snopes : No I wouldnt buy excercise equipment from someone overweight and neither would you. Thats why All the equipment hawked on TV or in the stores Has super fit models poseing with the equipment. Even though we all know the models dont use it and probably saw it for the first time the day of the shoot. But we buy it because we want to look like the models who sold us the equipment.
Instead we get a very expensive Clothesline.

You don't usually buy sports exercise equipment from a model.

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
As I said many posts ago, it's a matter of what Al Gore's goals are. If he wants to win new people over to his view, then living a more environmentally friendly life would be a good start. So, he's doing enough to make the people who already agree with him continue to agree with him, big deal. I'm glad you're all nodding together it must be reassuring. But, did you want to bring a few more people onboard to accomplish something, or just pat each other on the back for being 'concerned about the environment'?

But, rather than addressing that point, I suppose it's easier and much more fun to throw out bad anaologies about the Catholic church selling the Vatican or George Bush hiring someone to do his recreational activty.

Beach...if you really supported bricklayers you would brick up all the windows and doors in your house...Life!

Well, Beach, where is the evidence that he is not doing what he's asking others to do?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
As I said many posts ago, it's a matter of what Al Gore's goals are. If he wants to win new people over to his view, then living a more environmentally friendly life would be a good start. So, he's doing enough to make the people who already agree with him continue to agree with him, big deal. I'm glad you're all nodding together it must be reassuring. But, did you want to bring a few more people onboard to accomplish something, or just pat each other on the back for being 'concerned about the environment'?

But, rather than addressing that point, I suppose it's easier and much more fun to throw out bad anaologies about the Catholic church selling the Vatican or George Bush hiring someone to do his recreational activty.

Beach...if you really supported bricklayers you would brick up all the windows and doors in your house...Life!

Well, Beach, where is the evidence that he is not doing what he's asking others to do?
So is Gore saying that if we all just live like he does, that's all we need to do?

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
But, rather than addressing that point, I suppose it's easier and much more fun to throw out bad anaologies about the Catholic church selling the Vatican or George Bush hiring someone to do his recreational activty.

Beach...if you really supported bricklayers you would brick up all the windows and doors in your house...Life!

Um...let me get this straight. You, and others, state that you won't do a thing about the environment because Al Gore is a hypocrite. And then you ridicule those who criticize your stance because of its inherent hypocrisy.

Al Gore clearly does more than the average person to lessen his impact on the environment. He is passionate about helping to change American and world cultures and industries to lessen than impact further and has some sound advice as to how to achieve that goal. But it's not worth listening to because he owns two homes and flies in an airplane? Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds? And yet, when a legitimate analogy is made...you say they're bad analogies. Why?
-Al Gore says help the environment...but he's not absolutely flawless so screw him!
-George Bush says help the economy...but he's not absolutely flawless so screw him!

Bad analogy? They're identical!

And as far as winning new people over versus preaching to the choir...let's face it: God, himself, could descend from heaven above and command that all people listen to Al Gore's advice, and the majority of naysayers would continue to naysay simply because he is Al Gore and is a democrat (and linked to Clinton! Gasp!)

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
So is Gore saying that if we all just live like he does, that's all we need to do?

No. Is anyone saying that? Al Gore is saying "if you pay attention to the points in my book and the movie and make changes to reflect those points, it will have a positive effect on the environment around us".

Why is that bad?

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 1514 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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