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Michigan Girl
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I have read the book "Burned alive" by Souad

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446694878

But I have heard talk that it's not a true story. Does anyone know one way or the other?

Obviously "honor killings" are wrong, and the Muslims who think they are right are waaay of base. I lived in Jordan for 1 1/2 years, and some people there thought that if they brought the Islamic law (Shariah) and ruled by it, that the ones who killed for honor would go free, but they were very ignorant, as that's not what Shariah says at all.

Michigan Girl

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I am not willing to give up my constitutional freedoms just because I have nothing to hide

Posts: 142 | From: Michigan | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Horse Chestnut
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Michigan Girl:
I have read the book "Burned alive" by Souad

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446694878

But I have heard talk that it's not a true story. Does anyone know one way or the other?

Here is the original article written by Terese Taylor. She does seem to be able to refute many of the claims in the book by citing the conditions of villages in the West Bank in the 70s. She also interviews volunteers working for women's rights groups in the West Bank, who question statements in the book regarding Palestinian customs. Also the verasity of "recovered memories" has been called into question in this book and other memoirs as well.

I'd say, unless Souad steps forward herself, that there is a pretty good case that the memoir is fake.

Obviously "honor killings" are wrong, and the Muslims who think they are right are waaay of base. I lived in Jordan for 1 1/2 years, and some people there thought that if they brought the Islamic law (Shariah) and ruled by it, that the ones who killed for honor would go free, but they were very ignorant, as that's not what Shariah says at all.

Wikipedia has a very interesting entry for "honor killings". Of course, the practice of murdering women who are accused of "disgracing" their family is found in many countries, not just those in the Middle East. It seems to be based more on how men raised in patriarchal societies regard women. Religion seems to be used as a justification for violent or possessive tendencies.

You do defend Shariah law, saying that it does not call for honor killings, but that does not seem to be true. Like certain chapters in the Old Testament, there are cites in Islamic Hadith that condone the killing of women (and men) who commit adultery.

I also found it interesting that, according to the Wikipedia article, the Jordanian Penal Code states "...he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one of them, is exempted from any penalty." If that's not condoning honor killings, I don't know what is.

I do have to question your statement that Jordanians who fear that Shariah Law would let the killers of women go free as "ignorant". A year and a half in an Islamic country by no means makes you an expert in Islamic laws or customs. Perhaps the Jordanians might know a little more about the situation than you.

Posts: 1651 | From: Columbus, Ohio | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
I lived in Jordan for 1 1/2 years, and some people there thought that if they brought the Islamic law (Shariah) and ruled by it, that the ones who killed for honor would go free, but they were very ignorant, as that's not what Shariah says at all.
Nice to hear someone elso who has lived in Jordan, I lived there for about two years.

I talked to a high ranking police officer I worked with about this issue, and basically it goes like this:

There is no law that specifically allows this, but if a crime is done in anger, it is viewed as a mitigating circumstance, which has allowed some perpetrators to get off with a lighter sentence.

The laws have recently changed, providing specific support for women in this position, much as a result of the royal family putting this question in the spotlight and funding several safe houses for women in danger.

Even before the laws changed, the police did what they could, such as making a point of patrolling outside the homes of the ones making threats as often as possible to make them know they were watched and arresting them for as small things as the law would allow, even if not related to the threats.

This is not a common crime in Jordan, actually violent crime overall is quite uncommon. When it happens, it's often in the backwater villages and is often more of a 'triangle drama' thing than the fabled honour killings.

There is a TV documentary floating around on this issue. Don't believe it. It is 15 years old and talks about issues that were old at the time. Things have changed a lot since then.

As for Shariah law in Jordan, I really don't see that happening. The country is too far along the road to westernization to turn around now. You are seldom more than 500 m from the nearest liqour shop, almost everybody but the old dress just like in western countries (women sometimes use a headscarf, but that's as much fashion an practicality (the sun is hot!) as anything else), young people go to pubs and listen to rock music and so on.

Edit: Changed an 'on' to an 'about', as it would otherwise misrepresent my work there.

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/Troberg

Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Michigan Girl
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Horse Chestnut:
You do defend Shariah law, saying that it does not call for honor killings, but that does not seem to be true. Like certain chapters in the Old Testament, there are cites in Islamic Hadith that condone the killing of women (and men) who commit adultery.

I do have to question your statement that Jordanians who fear that Shariah Law would let the killers of women go free as "ignorant". A year and a half in an Islamic country by no means makes you an expert in Islamic laws or customs. Perhaps the Jordanians might know a little more about the situation than you.

Where did I say that living in Jordan for 1 1/2 years made me an expert? I neither said nor implied any such thing.

First of all, the Quran says those guilty of adultery should get 100 lashes (24:2). It says in the Hadith (sayings and doings of Mohammed) about stoning to death as punishment for adultery. But for any kind of punishment, there have to be four witnesses to the sexual act "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. Quran 4:15 YUSUFALI Translation.

And for those accusing women without having four witnesses "And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors." YUSUFALI Translation 24:4

And men have gotten jail time for "honor killings", so they obviously are not following what you found.

My point was that those that think the Quran gives them the right to commit an "honor killing" and get away with it ARE ignorant of what the Quran says. I am not defending Islam, I left it for my own personal reasons.

--------------------
~ Yep, I'm in Michigan ~ My blog http://catsrule2k.blogspot.com/
I am not willing to give up my constitutional freedoms just because I have nothing to hide

Posts: 142 | From: Michigan | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

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