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Crow
I Saw Three Shipments


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Yet another gem from an increasingly right wing board... sigh.


Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us..
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of 18,334 per year.

d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ..
an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush as liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and, North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking. But it took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation..

We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts

But Wait .

There's more!

JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR) Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn): "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank."

"I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men ... with their mangled bodies . in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!

You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job?

What about you?"

For those who don't remember .. During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney
representing the Communist Party in the USA.

Now he's a Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.


I know the end is from here.

[ 21. February 2006, 03:13 PM:   snopes ]

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Funkmistress
Deck the Malls


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Well, given that the screed is written in English, I really have no choice but to read it in English.

quote:
There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.
As a native of the fair city of Detroit, permit me to deliver a hearty "fuck you" to the author. As a child, I never wanted for electric power and running water. I never feared that someone would walk into the supermarket and blow himself up. I was never beaten by religious fanatics for not covering up my hair. All these things are occuring in post-"liberation" Iraq.

Besides, that tally is idiotic. Where is the logic in comparing a city of 800,000 to an occupying force of about 100,000? Why is the author only counting U.S. combat deaths and not Iraqi deaths? Do Iraqis not "count"? Or is it simply because if you counted Iraqi deaths, the count would be about ten times that of Detroit and the author's tenuous argument would collapse?

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Jack Dylan
Deck the Malls


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According to www.iraqbodycount.org, in the month of January at least 535 Iraqi civilans were killed through the efforts of the coalitoin and insurgent forces. I got that by going to the database and manually adding up all the casualties in the minimum deaths column for January.

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Eppis: Do you know why being a revolutionary doesn't work in this country? Being a revolutionary in America is like being a spoil sport at an orgy. All these goodies being passed around and you feel like a shit when you say no.

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
According to www.iraqbodycount.org, in the month of January at least 535 Iraqi civilans were killed through the efforts of the coalitoin and insurgent forces. I got that by going to the database and manually adding up all the casualties in the minimum deaths column for January.
But don't you know? Only American casualties count.

And I wish I could say that that was a joke.

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/Troberg

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Hrtofdrkns
Deck the Malls


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I don't even know where to begin addressing such garbage, so I won't.

--------------------
"Thing's work out if you just do whatever you want without worrying about the consequences."

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TB Tabby
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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What, no Faithmouse cartoons depiecting John Kerry nailing Jesus to the cross? I don't know whether to be relieved or disappointed!

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I like to go down to the playground and watch the kids run and jump and scream, because they don't know I'm only using blanks.

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Drainfluid
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Things that make you think a little
Never a truer word said.

A lot of people seem to be getting by on barely thinking at all.

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Bettie Page Turner
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!
Well hell...that settles it for me! No more study of the issues! No more examination of my country's policies carried out in my name! It seems that experts agree...everything's fine! Mistakes made in the past REALLY DO justify mistakes made now! Thank God I can get back to worrying about American Idol and Paris Hilton... [Roll Eyes]

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You fail to consider, for such is the tyranny of fashion, that the swan is not a slim animal... -Jincy Kornhauser, Melinda Falling

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Here's the Snopes take on this.

That Glenn-Metzenbaum story, BTW, has been floating around since 1974.

ETA: Glenn is a Democrat. I don't know his exact position on the Iraq war, but he's no Bush apologist. He and Metzenbaum served together as Senators from Ohio for a number of years and were allied on most issues.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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NobbyNobbs
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Crow:
It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!![QUOTE]

I didn 't realize we had taken Iraq. So all the fighting over there now is just for fun?

[QUOTE]If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.

Fine. Thank you to all those Revolutionary War veterans out there.

--------------------
Back in the days before electricity, we were forced to watch TV by candlelight.

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Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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So VERY MUCH stupidity...but one quick thing really bugged me:
quote:
f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Hmmm, so we all agree that Osama Bin Laden is dangerous, and yet President Bush offered these fine words after promising to scour the ends of the earth to bring Osama to Justice:
quote:
March 13, 2002 Presidential Press Briefing
(when asked why he doesn't mention Osama Bin Laden in any speeches, and if there is any new information regarding Bin Laden's whereabouts): "So I don't know where he is. Nor -- you know, I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you....I'll repeat what I said: I truly am not that concerned about him."

And, oh yeah...
quote:
g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush as liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and, North
Korea without firing a shot
, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

So, how are those nuclear inspectors working out?

I find this piece odd because it's clearly written by a right-wing supporter. But the only way they seem to be able to support their position is to essentially say "Our ways must be okay because the left-wing does it too". So, is the message that Democrats aren't all that bad because they're so similar to Republicans...or that Republicans aren't all that great because they're so similar to Democrats?

Oh, and this little bit?
quote:
We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
Yeah...because hundreds of thousands of American lives were put in jeopardy over that issue. [Roll Eyes]

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 112,500 per year.

Eh?

Is this writer seriously comparing WWII to the Iraq invasion? Besides, Germany and Japan were allies, and allies who had invaded much of the world. If this analogy were to hold up, Iraq would have had to invade the entire Middle East, plus have an ally attack U.S. interests somewhere else. None of that happened.

WWII was waged based on a real threat, to the U.S. and the world. The war in Iraq was not.

quote:
d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ..
an average of 5,800 per year.

Some might say that this is a good reason to not have gone into Iraq the way the U.S. did. Oh, wait ... many have been saying that.

quote:
f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us.
Peacekeeping for NATO is not launching a war. Furthermore, NATO was there with UN approval.

quote:
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Both Media Matters and the 9/11 Commission seem to disagree on the offer.

I need to stop here. This is making my blood boil.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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RLobinske
Deck the Malls


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quote:

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 112,500 per year.

Germany declared war on the US days after Pearl Harbor was attacked and started submarine attacks on US shipping almost immediately.

quote:
c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us..
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of 18,334 per year.

Last time I checked, the Korean war was started when North Korea invaded South Korea. How did Pres. Truman "start" it? Oh yeah, that was also a UN mission.

quote:
d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
IIRC, the first US advisors went to Vietnam in 1959, during the Eisenhower administration.


quote:
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking. But it took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation..
Hmm. It's been almost 3 years since Iraq was occupied by the US and its allies. Compare the status of Iraq to that of Germany and Japan in 1948...
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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by RLobinske:
quote:
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
IIRC, the first US advisors went to Vietnam in 1959, during the Eisenhower administration.
The first death listed on the Vietnam Veterans' Memorial Wall is in 1957, but still the Eisenhower administration.

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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Slight hijack here but what was the status of Hawaii relative to the US when Pearl Harbour was attacked? I know enough to realise that it wasn't a state yet, and it can't have been independent or it wouldn't have been attacking America, so what was it?

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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Cowboy Joe
Deck the Malls


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quote:

FDR led us into World War II.
quote:

How can you use this quote and the next one mentioning Pearl Harbor with a straight face? I seem to remember an attack before we declared war.
quote:

Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 112,500 per year.
quote:

Germany declared war on the United States shortly after Pearl Harbor.
quote:

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us..
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of 18,334 per year.
quote:

Domino Theory. An idea supported by every major Republican and Democrat of the day. Guys like Nixon and McCarthy made their careers on Red paranoia.
quote:

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
quote:

Involvement in Vietnam began under Ike.
quote:

In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush as liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and, North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
quote:

If you assume that the first terrorist attack was in 2001. I remeber something rather major in Beruit in 1983. Also, those nuclear inspectors are international. Also, that terrorist who killed 300K of his own people did so with the knowledge of Papa Bush. But we don't interfere in internal problems.
quote:

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking. But it took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation..
quote:

I see. The war is over. Then how can you compare any number of "combat deaths" to Detroit or any other city? Combat implies war, does it not.
quote:

We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
quote:

Really? So she started looking for those in 1991, stopped in 1998, went back at it in 2002, fired the person looking for them and then beat the hell out of someone she thought had them when in fact that person did not? This is the oddest part of this steaming pile.
quote:

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.
quote:

Or for Dick Cheney to report to the public he had an itchy trigger finger. But we knew that already.
quote:

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
quote:

But the theft of that election took long, careful planning. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bush attempt to run for a third term since technically, he wasn't elected the first time, he was appointed by the Supreme Court. It seems to be their pattern to alter facts as they go to cover their tracks.

ETA: Cool bolding pattern of responses after accidentaly hitting the add rely button.

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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
Slight hijack here but what was the status of Hawaii relative to the US when Pearl Harbour was attacked? I know enough to realise that it wasn't a state yet, and it can't have been independent or it wouldn't have been attacking America, so what was it?

Hawaii was a U.S. territory. Aside from the 13 original colonies, all the states were territories before becoming states.

Edited to fix incorrect link.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
Slight hijack here but what was the status of Hawaii relative to the US when Pearl Harbour was attacked? I know enough to realise that it wasn't a state yet, and it can't have been independent or it wouldn't have been attacking America, so what was it?

Hawaii was annexed by the US in 1898 (during the McKinley administration?), and was an overseas territory for about sixty years before being admitted to the Union in 1959 as the 50th state.

ETA: Wikipedia says "Yes, Dara, it was the McKinley administration. Well done you on knowing your relatively obscure american presidents from the 19th century."

ETA again: spanked by Lainie. Maybe I shouldn't have wasted all that time trying to think up a jokey link.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Jordashe
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I'm not positive, but I believe we immediately declared war against Japan after they declared war on us, followed shortly after by Germany delcaring war on the US, followed by us declaring war on them.
Sounds perfectly reasonable.

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Why would anyone use the Vietnam War as a rationale for the current war? Most people who are against the current war would probably also oppose the Vietnam war, and it was protested against much more strenuously than this war. Few people see it as an unquestionably good and just war, so using it as a historical precedent really just sets up the Iraq war to be criticised.

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Officially Heartless

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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
quote:
Originally posted by RLobinske:
quote:
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
IIRC, the first US advisors went to Vietnam in 1959, during the Eisenhower administration.
The first death listed on the Vietnam Veterans' Memorial Wall is in 1957, but still the Eisenhower administration.

Four Kitties

To go even further back, the United States was backing the French and paying 80 percent of the costs of the war by 1954. After the French pulled out, it became the United States' problem.

Pogue

--------------------
Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone:
To go even further back, the United States was backing the French and paying 80 percent of the costs of the war by 1954. After the French pulled out, it became the United States' problem.

Pogue

The book The Quiet American by Graham Greene provides an interesting perspective on American involvement in 50s Vietnam, of which I knew next to nothing before I read the book. There's also a film; worth a watch.

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I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there!

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Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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My mother once explained to me that de Gaulle essentially tricked Eisenhower into picking up the reins in Vietnam when the French wanted out of it. It sounds like she might have been wrong about it being de Gaulle, though, since he was out of office between 1946 and 1957. I do, however, know for sure that it was Ike who sent in the first American advisors.

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Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you
Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused
But just now it's enough to be walking with you
Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins

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Rorgg
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Aside from the 13 original colonies, all the states were territories before becoming states.
Well, if you mean "area covered by the 13 original colonies," yes. Neither Maine, Vermont, nor West Virginia were colonies themselves or territories -- they all broke off other states unless my history is wrong.
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Unusual Elfin Lights
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Crow:
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

That is because the soldiers of 3ID and the Marines in theatre are good, and Ted, well, we'll hold off on that.

How about this...It took more time for the US Forces to destroy the Republican Guard than it did for the President to pin 9/11 on Saddam.

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