CANBERRA AUSTRALIA: Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown.
Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that australia was a secular state and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he said on national television. "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false.
If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to other country which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country.
Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off". "Basically, people who don't want to be Australians, and they don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off," he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
But the headline is misleading. It is not "Muslims out of Australia", but rather "Muslims who want to live under Sharia law would be better off out of Australia" (which, in the theme of an old MAD Magazine article, could be abbreviated to "Muslims... out of Australia").
Posts: 225 | From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The real problem here is that not all Muslims wish to live under Sharia law as practiced by the Ayatollah of Iran, for example. Indeed, most Muslims in Australia live here because they like the tolerance, the laws and the opportunities. The Australian Press, amongst the worst in the Western World, can not or will not see the differing shades of Islam, beyond Sunni radicals and Shiíte radicals. We've just had anti-terror laws bought in - I was discussing them with a Muslim friend of mine - I said, "I'm worried about these laws." She said, "you're worried! how do you think we feel!" she was right of course...
I am an atheist, with agnostic tendencies, so don't agree with Islam, Christianity or any of the others, but have no issues with people living their life as they see fit (with all necessary provisos for living in a civil society). I do feel, however, that targeting a group because they are DIFFERENT is wrong. I am no fan of Costello, or of Nelson (who, believe it or not) suggested that Intelligent Design might be useful in our schools. I do believe that the idea as expressed by Costello is not wrong. I am not surprised that the press sensationalised it so much.n
-------------------- I am, therefore I think Posts: 56 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The quote is a composite of three different stories. It has extracted the most contentious parts of each and presented them as a single narrative.
Moreover, it has suggested that the 'leave Australia' ideas floated had evolved into a formal government policy. The author's principle sin is mischevious omission.
If fact these ideas had a moment at the periphery of public debate and were heard of no more. While John Howard has a recognised personal antagonism to multiculturalism, he's no fool and won't make a public fight of a losing issue.
Posts: 1749 | From: -> Canberra <-/ Hong Kong / London | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ulkomaalainen: Maybe the correct headline would be "People who don't like Australian law are not wanted by Australia".
True. Australia is one of the most multicultural nations in the world. IIRC, 1 in 5 were born overseas, 1 in 5 are first generation Aussie.
We welcome people from anywhere, as long as they are prepared to accept the Australian way of life. I don't mean they have to change everything about them. On the contrary, we have absorbed a lot from other cultures. We don't want the problems brought here from the country they are leaving behind. Their first allegience must be to Australia.
-------------------- "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana Posts: 890 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree our press is terrible. The point he made was valid though but only to a point, it wasn't specific enough to not be seen as a unilateral threat.
-------------------- -Sir, the rebels are here. My god do they want tea?- Posts: 27 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
`A dog whistle sends out a shrill signal that can't be heard by humans, but the dog perceives the sound loud and clear. In this way, the Government's actions and comments, while appearing legitimate and non-racist on the surface, are sending out subliminal messages to appeal to popular insecurities and xenophobia in sections of the community.'
The current Australian government is very good at dogwhistle politics.
-------------------- Yours, &c
Linden Posts: 190 | From: Australia | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Apart from the inflammatory headline, I see nothing wrong with the content of the report. Nobody is above the secular law of the country they settle in.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well this story has certainly taken on a new twist, hasn't it.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I got this in an email today. Same thing, with an extra bit tacked on to the end.
>Want to move to Australia? > >Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on >Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals >in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. > >A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to >Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John >Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a >crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, >hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if >they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws >were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a >country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is >not for you", he said on national television. > >"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws >governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another the >Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, >independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the >opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, >then, that's a better option", Costello said. > >Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he >said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the >other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters >that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. >Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want ! >to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can >basically clear off", he said. > >Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by >saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques Quote: >"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave it. I am >tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some >individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we >have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." > >"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the >'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility >that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, >nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by >coming to Australia." >"However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to >our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This >idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to >dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we >have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle." > >"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, >trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom" > >"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, >Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to >become part of our society, Learn the language!" > >"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right; >wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on >Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly >documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of >our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another >part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." > >"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is >that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." > >"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", >then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this >planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and >we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all >means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others. > >"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow >you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done >complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our >Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take >advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." > >"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. >You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted." > >Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will >find the BACKBONE to start speaking and voting the same truths!! > >SEND THIS TO EVERYBODY YOU KNOW !
-------------------- "My neighbor asked why anyone would need a car that can go 190 mph. If the answer isn't obvious, and explaination won't help." - Csabe Csere Posts: 1225 | From: Wichita, Kansas | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The version quoted by Delta-V makes me feel sick. With the emphasis on "Our Flag, Our Pledge" it sounds as if someone has taken an American rant and attempted to adapt it.
"because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented."
Umm... we're talking about a penal colony, here, not some sort of enlightened religious utopia.
(Not that there's anything wrong with that; I'm a first-fleet descendant myself).
Posts: 340 | From: Redmond, WA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Penny, I agree that it sounds like a typical xonophobic American rant, too. 'Course, I'm in the US, so I don't really know what the typical Australian xenophobic rant sounds like.
-------------------- "How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about." --Ray Nagin Posts: 1325 | From: Missouri | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Delta-V: I got this in an email today. Same thing, with an extra bit tacked on to the end.
>"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow >you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done >complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our >Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take >advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." > >"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. >You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted." > >Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will >find the BACKBONE to start speaking and voting the same truths!! > >SEND THIS TO EVERYBODY YOU KNOW !
Okay the post start off ranting as to why immigrants should adapt to an Aussie life-style, then suddenly it is asking American citizens to speak out.
An incomplete translation of the ending or just some-one who forgot where they live??
-------------------- Focus On The Family- An opinion group who think more about Gay Sex than gay people do- Rick Mercer Posts: 590 | From: Rawdon, Quebec | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why would people from a desert region like the middle east want to settle in Australia?
From an Australian point of view. The Middle East would more likely be the Mid-West.
Everyone in Australia should convert to Aborigninal Faiths. Just like everyone in America should convert to American Indian Faiths.
If Muslioms wanted to enact laws based on Sharia in a municipality that was all Muslim. Wouldn't that the up to the judgement of the local voters. If that happened in the States Right Wing Pundits would have a field day.
-------------------- "When we talk about democracy, if the people's stomach is empty, democracy is also empty. Democracy cannot be installed by fiat; it must be achieved by the people themselves." Y.C. James Yen (1893-1990) Posts: 146 | From: San Jose, California | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The mid-west? Of the United States? Like the Middle East?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Honey Bunching Oats: If Muslioms wanted to enact laws based on Sharia in a municipality that was all Muslim. Wouldn't that the up to the judgement of the local voters.
My understanding is that the laws would need to comply with existing Aussie laws. So you could add laws pertaining to behaviour or dress code, but any punishment you implement for breaking those laws would need to be lawful activities in Australia.
I suppose you could get away with it with punishments such as group shunning or public shaming, within your community.
Posts: 340 | From: Redmond, WA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was shown a hard copy of a different version a colleague recieved from England (unfortunately I can't copy/paste as I only saw the hard copy). This other version had the text from the OP and then went on a rant about how school's should reintroduce prayer and put up crosses, that we are Christian and shouldn't be afraid to show it. What?! Oviously the person that tacked those two bits together didn't read the first part about how Australia is a secular state and how religious teaching doesn't overrule state law.
As others have said the basics of he OP are true, with omissions and a misleading heading. But the two longer pieces are just tacked on, badly recycled Christian fundie diatribes that have nothing to do with the actual topic.
And BTW last time I checked, God wasn't hanging out at the beach. So if "God is part of our culture" I don't know who's barbie he is crashing.
curly"Which Pledge?"girl
-------------------- "let them eat cake...and toast...and waffles...and cookies, don't forget the cookies" Posts: 507 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can definitely see God as a barbie-attending bloke. He'd be the one holding the tongs, decisively turning the snags. He is all-powerful, after all, and there's no greater symbol of power in Aussie culture.
Posts: 340 | From: Redmond, WA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by AnglRdr: The mid-west? Of the United States? Like the Middle East?
Who missed their Weetbix today?
From an Australian point of view. The Middle East would more likely be the Mid-West.
Australian Mid-West is like the Middle East apparently. Deserty and stuff.
Posts: 1749 | From: -> Canberra <-/ Hong Kong / London | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jason Threadslayer: Weetbix? Is that anything like Weetabix?
Almost the same, except, as with our flora and fauna, they're much more dangerous. They have sharp pointy corners, unlike the rounded kind found in other countries.
quote:Originally posted by Honey Bunching Oats: If Muslioms wanted to enact laws based on Sharia in a municipality that was all Muslim. Wouldn't that the up to the judgement of the local voters. If that happened in the States Right Wing Pundits would have a field day.
But what if these laws conflict with the civil rights guaranteed to Australians, particularly the rights of women? Should they still be able to enact and enforce these laws?
Posts: 1651 | From: Columbus, Ohio | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
`A dog whistle sends out a shrill signal that can't be heard by humans, but the dog perceives the sound loud and clear. In this way, the Government's actions and comments, while appearing legitimate and non-racist on the surface, are sending out subliminal messages to appeal to popular insecurities and xenophobia in sections of the community.'
The current Australian government is very good at dogwhistle politics.
I love that term. Dogwhistle politics are very popular in the US, too.
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Australian values and being “unaustralian” are two expression favorite with our prime minister as well as the gutter media. Putting up petrol price on ANZAC day, fare evasion, snatching handbags from old ladies, ripping off fly’s wings and any other unacceptable behavior is labeled “unaustralian” . By implication anything bad is imported, while all Australians are the paragon of virtue.
When the clerics announced that Muslims have to obey 2 laws; both Australian and that of their religion I did not see it posing a threat to Australian community. I took it to mean that Muslims have to comply with all the laws of Australian society as well as such laws as not consuming alcohol, observing Ramadan and other religious rules. While I know that strict Sharia laws do include limb amputation and stoning to death, but that would be against Australian law, and I doubt that was something that the clerics were planning to practice here. The government just used it to further whip up anti migration hysteria.
Posts: 214 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Seraphina: While I know that strict Sharia laws do include limb amputation and stoning to death, but that would be against Australian law, and I doubt that was something that the clerics were planning to practice here.
Not right away, anyway. But what if they're progressives?
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Lainie: Dogwhistle politics are very popular in the US, too.
I don't know of anywhere they aren't.
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:While I know that strict Sharia laws do include limb amputation and stoning to death, but that would be against Australian law, and I doubt that was something that the clerics were planning to practice here.
They are not practiced in most Moslem countries either. People should not always assume the worst.
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[fish]](graemlins/fish.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
