snopes.com Post new topic  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » Urban Legends » History » In a Simple Lawn Ornament, Echoes of Slavery, Revolution (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: In a Simple Lawn Ornament, Echoes of Slavery, Revolution
Syllavus
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Syllavus     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lazerus the duck:
quote:
Originally posted by Syllavus:
I was responding more to lazerus the duck's comment Ryda. [Smile]

I think it just more of an indicator of just how different some parts of the US are from others. Someone raised in one part of the US can be exposed regularly to things that someone raised in another part will never know about.

But then again I'm born and bred in the UK where we have practically no lawn jockeys but I am fully aware of their existance and the racial overtones they represent.
What does this prove? One only has so much control over the knowledge that they accumulate over their lifetime. I fail to see how never seeing a black lawn jockey, and therefore never realizing that they were in any way racist is an indicator of being "woefully ignorant". One can read many books, take many classes, be very intelligent, but still not know everything about the world around them, particularly things that are not a part of their everyday culture. I still find myself learning new information practically everyday, about history, about culture, etc. However, just because one hasn't yet come across a particular nugget of knowledge, doesn't necessarily mean they're ignorant.

Unless of course you're using the "lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact" definition of ignorant, in which case basically every person on earth could be described as ignorant, since I doubt there is anyone out there who is not lacking in information about certain subjects or facts. However if that is the case and you were using the term in that way, why single out Americans?

--------------------
"That would be really dangerous, you know. Indiscriminately extricating someone from the petrified corpse of a supernatural creature." - My Husband

Posts: 4308 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
evilrabbit
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 1 posted      Profile for evilrabbit   E-mail evilrabbit   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Having been exposed to very few lawn jockeys in my life (there was one I used to pass on my way home from school; it was unpainted and therefore iron-colored), I never saw much reason to consider them or their sociological implications. I never found myself in a position to research the sordid histories of garden ornementation. I see in this no cause for woe. It is one fact I was unaware of, compared against several I already knew.

--------------------
"My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich."
"Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?"
"Maybe."

Posts: 496 | From: Whitby, ON, Canada | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lady Moon
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 09 posted      Profile for Lady Moon   E-mail Lady Moon   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by put it in writing:
quote:
How many of my fellow americans who weren't aware of the racial overtones of these things are from the South?
Ryda, I was thinking the exact same thing.
*sheepishly raises hand* Me.

We had one on my grandmother's stoop -- it was painted all black. Boot-black, all over. We all grew up calling it 'Boy', because that's what was carved on the base of it.

I was twenty before it hit me how awful that was. After she died, my husband took a little bit of concrete and filled in the carvings.

The former 'Boy', now stripped down to the grey concrete, stood guard outside my grandmother's house until he was stolen last April.

I hope whoever has him treats him kindly.

--------------------
"We've got a fifth member of the band round here, and he's DEFINITELY out of tune!" -- Keith Moon

"If I had a thousand quid for every time I've introduced this song --- oh, I do!" -- John Entwistle

Posts: 584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
musicgeek
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for musicgeek   E-mail musicgeek   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I thought that Andre 3000's singing jockey backup group ("The Love Haters," played, as were all the characters in the band, by Andre) in the "Hey Ya" video was a brilliant ironic swipe at this particular stereotype. Watch the video here. In the context of the early-'60s-ish, Ed Sullivan-esque vibe of the presentation I thought it made an interesting commentary on how mainstream white America tends to forget racial prejudices when the people in question are entertainers.

--------------------
[God said] "I'll just sit back in the shade while everyone gets laid; that's what I call intelligent design." - Chris Smither, "Origin of the Species"

Posts: 411 | From: Fairfield, CT | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
GrandMal de Caesar
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for GrandMal de Caesar   E-mail GrandMal de Caesar   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I am also old enough to remember that the lawn jockeys were all black, and really the link to the new company doesn't make me feel any better.
Jocko is an especially cartoonish character with bent back and seeming pretty subservient in pose.
The Cavalier on the other hand is very erect, chin up and seeming proud, even though he is just providing a service.
It makes sense that there are some regional differences on this and age differences. Still, I wonder about whether we have advanced to a state where the jockeys can be white or black and many consider them the equivalent of a pink flamingo, a doe, or a gnome, not a reminder of slavery. This is progress, right? Or selective memory?

--------------------
Blinded by the lite

Posts: 89 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mr. Baggins
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mr. Baggins   E-mail Mr. Baggins   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
quote:
Originally posted by MG123:
Doesn't matter. Either way, they're going to turn anything into something racist if they can.

Gee, I wonder why. Maybe 350 years of genocide, slavery, and discrimination makes people a little suspicious of certain symbols of race that were around for at least a century of that time.

On the one hand, I agree that the "race card" (if that's what it's still called) has been over played in some cases, African Americans struggled for two hundred years before it was made illegal for their families to be shackled and sold to another continent (and millions of them died on the way), then struggled for a generation after that before the slavery ended, and finally struggled for another century to end conditions of servitude and discrimination. If that doesn't make someone suspicious of symbols of race, nothing will. So perhaps a little underestanding is in order. (edited)

No African-American living today was a slave. Very, very few of them lived segregation. Why do they get the "oh, we struggled mightily" thing?

Some of my ancestors were Mexican Natives, who were submitted, massacred and enslaved by Spanish Conquistadors. Do I get to be snippy to Europeans because of those centuries of aggression "my people" suffered? Or do I grow up and acknowledge that nobody did a damn thing to ME?

Seriously, I'm interested. How does a 20-year-old black American gets to grouse about "being oppresed"? Where exactly do you draw the line?

--------------------
"The system would also let you send your picture and contact details to a rough trade gay contact mailing list saying you like to be surprised with power tools in a non-consensual role play scenario – but that doesn’t mean you SHOULD do it.!"

Posts: 298 | From: Monterrey, Mexico | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
20 year old black Americans are often discriminated against. That 20 year old's grandparents (if not parents) lived under Jim Crow, which ended only just over 40 years ago. It is ridiculous to think that racism does not still exist.

Systemic institutionalized racism in this country is a memory that is alive and well. Telling people they should get over it is silly.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
rdemarta
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for rdemarta   E-mail rdemarta   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
To some, particularly African Americans, the lawn jockey is a pint-size monument to repugnant stereotypes, a holdover from the days of slavery and Jim Crow, an artifact of racial prejudice alongside Aunt Jemima.

But others, including some historians and collectors of African American memorabilia, say the lawn jockey has been misunderstood. They say his origins can be traced to a legend of faithful duty during the American Revolution. They say he guided slaves to freedom on the underground railroad. His appearance has evolved over time, reflecting changes in the stature of blacks in U.S. society.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/16/AR2006091600851.html


Posts: 2 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
rdemarta
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for rdemarta   E-mail rdemarta   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Many jockeys were black in the old southand many lawn ornaments show a black jockey aboard his mount
Posts: 2 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   E-mail Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rdemarta:
Many jockeys were black in the old southand many lawn ornaments show a black jockey aboard his mount

Cite?

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lydia Oh Lydia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lydia Oh Lydia   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I've never understood the appeal of lawn ornaments in general.

--------------------
"My name is the symbol for my identity and must not be lost." Motto of the Lucy Stone League.

Posts: 1815 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
charlie23
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for charlie23   Author's Homepage   E-mail charlie23   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dropbear:
In Australia we had painted concrete aboriginals, usually standing on one leg and holding a spear. You still see them very occasionally.

The major problem with them is the reinforcement of racial stereotypes.

whereas showing an Aboriginal standing on one leg and holding a spear in just about every commercial ever made about Australia is simply good marketing...
Personally I think it's all just part of a conspiracy spread by the flamingos.

Posts: 156 | From: Varna, Bulgaria | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cowboy Joe
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cowboy Joe   E-mail Cowboy Joe   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by put it in writing:
Let's just put it this way. Check out the Jocko statue and the "Watermelon Jockey" figure.

HOLY CRAP!!!! [Eek!]

--------------------
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

Posts: 382 | From: Wyoming | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I like the way that next to the black guy eating the watermelon it says, "Act now, as you’ll be hard pressed to find this little guy anywhere else."

Um, yeah, I think there's a reason you won't find him anywhere else...

Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Bad Company
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bad Company   E-mail Bad Company   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
http://www.jockobook.com/JOCKO_the_first_america_child_hero_LEGEND.htm

http://www.desertdispatch.com/2004/107582495248795.html

http://www.mcnallycompanyantiques.com/product_detail.php?id=323

Jocko Graves, a 12 year old African American boy, asked to help fight the Redcoats but was rejected due to his young age. Instead, Washington asked him to hold a lantern and to look after several horses. Jocko kept his lantern lit along the river so the company would know where to return after battle. Many hours later Washington and his men returned to their horses that were held by the boy. Jocko has frozen to death with the lantern still clenched in his fist. Washington was so moved by the young boy's devotion to the revolutionary cause that he commissioned a statue to the "Faithful Groomsman" to stand in Graves' honor at Mount Vernon.

The lawn jockeys again appeared about the time of the Civil War. Like the North Star that pointed the fleeing slaves to their freedom, the Jocko statues pointed to the safe houses of the Underground Railroad. A green ribbon tied to the statue's arm - whether clandestinely or with the owner's knowledge - indicated safety; a red ribbon meant danger. These original lawn jockey statues are now considered as some of the true artifacts of the Underground Railroad that conducted so many African American slaves to freedom.

Posts: 24 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
put it in writing
Xboxing Day


Icon 1 posted      Profile for put it in writing   Author's Homepage   E-mail put it in writing       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Too bad all that info's been pretty well debunked. The "Jocko" story is just another legend.

--------------------
and it's 1 - 2 - 3, what are we fighting for? don't ask me, I don't give a damn

Posts: 1319 | From: Florida | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Thera
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Thera   E-mail Thera   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I live in Georgia. Our neighbors next door had the fishing one you see on that site, only it was much darker. Yes, that family was racist, we knew it in other ways. I've always known the figures to be racist.
Posts: 100 | From: Georgia | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cowboy Joe
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cowboy Joe   E-mail Cowboy Joe   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by put it in writing:
Too bad all that info's been pretty well debunked. The "Jocko" story is just another legend.

That's interesting. Do you have a cite?

--------------------
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

Posts: 382 | From: Wyoming | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rhiandmoi   E-mail Rhiandmoi   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy Joe:
quote:
Originally posted by put it in writing:
Too bad all that info's been pretty well debunked. The "Jocko" story is just another legend.

That's interesting. Do you have a cite?
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1731660

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

Posts: 8745 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cowboy Joe
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cowboy Joe   E-mail Cowboy Joe   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy Joe:
quote:
Originally posted by put it in writing:
Too bad all that info's been pretty well debunked. The "Jocko" story is just another legend.

That's interesting. Do you have a cite?
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1731660
Thanks. As a history teacher I am always keen to debunk a historical UL.

--------------------
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

Posts: 382 | From: Wyoming | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
MissEltoe
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


Icon 1 posted      Profile for MissEltoe     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Baggins:
No African-American living today was a slave. Very, very few of them lived segregation. Why do they get the "oh, we struggled mightily" thing?

Some of my ancestors were Mexican Natives, who were submitted, massacred and enslaved by Spanish Conquistadors. Do I get to be snippy to Europeans because of those centuries of aggression "my people" suffered? Or do I grow up and acknowledge that nobody did a damn thing to ME?

Seriously, I'm interested. How does a 20-year-old black American gets to grouse about "being oppresed"? Where exactly do you draw the line?

Very, very few black people alive now lived through segregation? Are you sure? I hate history so I wouldn't be sure about actual dates and all but I know for a fact my mother and siblings and my grandmother and her siblings lived through it (they're still alive, btw).

I am black but don't think I'm automatically reserved the right to gripe about being "oppressed", but I can damn sure atest to the fact that sometimes being black does not work in my favor.

--------------------
Licorice of the Lord! This is classy stuff...Should I be wearing a tie? Or, at least, pants?
~I'mNotDedalus

Posts: 975 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kallrynne
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kallrynne   E-mail kallrynne   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
It is ridiculous to think that racism does not still exist.

Systemic institutionalized racism in this country is a memory that is alive and well. Telling people they should get over it is silly.

And this is why no one will ever get passed racism. This is why it will continue and there will be tension between various races. Because no one can move past it. Because people can't get past things like what the implications of the lawn jockey was years ago. I don't think it's such a bad thing that so many people do not know that a lawn jockey was a racial issue years ago. It shows that people are moving on. But what do we do as soon as people start moving on? We REMIND THEM so that it is all fresh and new and painful again. Let's go ahead and rip the scab wide open again. I'm not saying we should all go out and buy lawn jockeys. But what's wrong with progressing past it? I mean, isn't that the goal? I'm not saying bury it and forget bad things ever happened. No. Learn from the past, but don't continue to live in it.
Posts: 64 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   E-mail Ryda Wong, EBfCo.   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kallrynne:
quote:
It is ridiculous to think that racism does not still exist.

Systemic institutionalized racism in this country is a memory that is alive and well. Telling people they should get over it is silly.

And this is why no one will ever get passed racism. This is why it will continue and there will be tension between various races. Because no one can move past it. Because people can't get past things like what the implications of the lawn jockey was years ago. I don't think it's such a bad thing that so many people do not know that a lawn jockey was a racial issue years ago. It shows that people are moving on. But what do we do as soon as people start moving on? We REMIND THEM so that it is all fresh and new and painful again. Let's go ahead and rip the scab wide open again. I'm not saying we should all go out and buy lawn jockeys. But what's wrong with progressing past it? I mean, isn't that the goal? I'm not saying bury it and forget bad things ever happened. No. Learn from the past, but don't continue to live in it.
Ummm. Hi. I know, as I stated above. I'll be willing to bet that most people who grew up in the South know good and well what those represent. They use them because they represent that, and then use the "it's just a laahn ornament" line when someone calls them on it. Trust me, the stereotype of the "good darkie" is still lauded and longed for openly by some people. It hasn't died. The implication of the lawn jockey is what it was 50 years ago.....

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
PallasAthena
Xboxing Day


Icon 1 posted      Profile for PallasAthena     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Oh, DYOC, I know Ryda. I hate those lawn ornaments. Every time I see one all I can think is, "Yes, Massah. I's a good boy." Ugh. It reminds me of hearing my older relatives call grown black men "boy" and referring to their elderly house keeper as a "little colored girl." Yuck.

--------------------
"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about." --Ray Nagin

Posts: 1325 | From: Missouri | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kallrynne:
quote:
It is ridiculous to think that racism does not still exist.

Systemic institutionalized racism in this country is a memory that is alive and well. Telling people they should get over it is silly.

And this is why no one will ever get passed racism. This is why it will continue and there will be tension between various races. Because no one can move past it. Because people can't get past things like what the implications of the lawn jockey was years ago. I don't think it's such a bad thing that so many people do not know that a lawn jockey was a racial issue years ago. It shows that people are moving on. But what do we do as soon as people start moving on? We REMIND THEM so that it is all fresh and new and painful again. Let's go ahead and rip the scab wide open again. I'm not saying we should all go out and buy lawn jockeys. But what's wrong with progressing past it? I mean, isn't that the goal? I'm not saying bury it and forget bad things ever happened. No. Learn from the past, but don't continue to live in it.
Actually, I am of the opinion I am part of the solution to ending racism. All you have to do is look at a picture of my family.

I think it is hopelessly naive to just sweep it under the rug and treat it as if it never happened, which is, IMNSHO, the real reason we will never "get over" racism.

Denial about our past is not coming to terms with it.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kallrynne
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kallrynne   E-mail kallrynne   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by kallrynne:
quote:
It is ridiculous to think that racism does not still exist.

Systemic institutionalized racism in this country is a memory that is alive and well. Telling people they should get over it is silly.

And this is why no one will ever get passed racism. This is why it will continue and there will be tension between various races. Because no one can move past it. Because people can't get past things like what the implications of the lawn jockey was years ago. I don't think it's such a bad thing that so many people do not know that a lawn jockey was a racial issue years ago. It shows that people are moving on. But what do we do as soon as people start moving on? We REMIND THEM so that it is all fresh and new and painful again. Let's go ahead and rip the scab wide open again. I'm not saying we should all go out and buy lawn jockeys. But what's wrong with progressing past it? I mean, isn't that the goal? I'm not saying bury it and forget bad things ever happened. No. Learn from the past, but don't continue to live in it.
Ummm. Hi. I know, as I stated above. I'll be willing to bet that most people who grew up in the South know good and well what those represent. They use them because they represent that, and then use the "it's just a laahn ornament" line when someone calls them on it. Trust me, the stereotype of the "good darkie" is still lauded and longed for openly by some people. It hasn't died. The implication of the lawn jockey is what it was 50 years ago.....
Ummm. Hi. Yeah, I'm from a little place called Tyrone, Georgia. I never knew anything about lawn jockeys growing up, I had seen one once on my aunt's horse farm, but then again, she had all sorts of jockey type things in and around her house beings though that both her sons were jockeys.

So, what do you mean by "they use them because they represent that...?" Sorry, but that almost sounded like a conspiracy theory. Everyone with a lawn jockey is part of some underground rebellion.
And what is this?---> "it's just a laahn ornament"

And, honestly, I never heard the phrase "good darkie" before, I've never heard anyone I know refer to a grown black male as "boy."

quote:
I think it is hopelessly naive to just sweep it under the rug and treat it as if it never happened, which is, IMNSHO, the real reason we will never "get over" racism.

Denial about our past is not coming to terms with it.

Which is why I said "I'm not saying bury it and forget bad things ever happened. No." There is no denial there. I'm saying, as I said, learn from the past, but don't live in it.

Coming to terms with something is only one step of the process. You eventually have to actually move on. How long are people supposed to spend "coming to terms" with it before it's okay to take that next step?

(edited for spelling)

Posts: 64 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Okay, so who is "living in the past," kallrynne?

You attributed my attitude as the reason we will never get over racism.

Please tell me how.

P.S. If you're from Tyrone, GA, and have never heard a grown black man called "boy," I suggest you've not been listening very hard. I have heard both of my brothers called "boy" while in ATL.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kallrynne
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kallrynne   E-mail kallrynne   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
The fact that you said "telling people they should get over it is silly." Not that I would use the phrase "get over it," but basically, it sounded like what you were saying was it was "silly" to try to get past it.
Posts: 64 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kallrynne
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kallrynne   E-mail kallrynne   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm sorry, I just don't understand the racial context of the word "boy." I've heard grown and elderly people call anyone younger than them "boy." I've heard teenagers use the term when trying to insult one another, but it's never been in a racially charged argument, it's usually referring to immaturity.
Posts: 64 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kallrynne:
The fact that you said "telling people they should get over it is silly." Not that I would use the phrase "get over it," but basically, it sounded like what you were saying was it was "silly" to try to get past it.

No, what I said was it is silly to tell people to get over it.

Given your ignorance about the use of the word "boy" as perjorative, though, I suspect that you have remained willfully ignorant about race issues.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rhiandmoi   E-mail Rhiandmoi   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kallrynne:
I'm sorry, I just don't understand the racial context of the word "boy." I've heard grown and elderly people call anyone younger than them "boy." I've heard teenagers use the term when trying to insult one another, but it's never been in a racially charged argument, it's usually referring to immaturity.

Have you ever read the book "To Kill a Mockingbird"?

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

Posts: 8745 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kallrynne
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kallrynne   E-mail kallrynne   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Excuse me? Willfully ignorant about race issues?? Wow. When did this degenerate from a debate to an angry argument? Not once did I mean any offense by anything I said. I was stating my opinion and I won't apologize if it conflicted with yours.

Willfully ignorant about race issues. I have not denied that racism still exists. That's not what I was saying. I was stating my opinion on why I thought it still existed. I KNOW it still exists. I never said there wasn't racism in the south, I just didn't agree with examples given.

I went to a very small christian school where it was against the rules to have same sex or interracial relationships. I was almost expelled 2 weeks from graduation for dating a black guy. I was the only "white" person in my graduating class. The parenthesis are there because I am part cherokee indian, irish, italian, and, oh yeah, black. I've dealt with race issues from several different sides. So, just because I haven't heard or used the term "boy" in any way other than it's intended use does not make me "willfully ignorant" of race issues.

I do apologize if I misunderstood your original statement. But even after your clarification, I still stand by my opinion in that racism will never go away if we don't allow each other to move on and grow as people.

Posts: 64 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kallrynne
I Saw Three Shipments


Icon 1 posted      Profile for kallrynne   E-mail kallrynne   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Have you ever read the book "To Kill a Mockingbird"?
No, actually, I haven't.
Posts: 64 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kallrynne:
quote:
Have you ever read the book "To Kill a Mockingbird"?
No, actually, I haven't.
You really need to.

And please reread my statements; I think you've grossly misinterpreted them.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ComicBookGeek
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ComicBookGeek     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
It is ridiculous to think that racism does not still exist.
I didn't become a racist until I was repeatidly called one, simply due to my race and origin.

--------------------
My Blog

Posts: 177 | From: Mobile, AL | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
  This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2