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Author Topic: The Hope Diamond
effo5231
I Saw Three Shipments


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A friend of mine told me that the Hope Diamond is actually a stolen diamond that used to belong to the French. (Part of their crown jewels I think he said... anywho.) And that the diamond was stolen and cut down to be a bit smaller and then resold.

I did a search and most sources confirm this... to a point, no one actually says its definately true. Well at least no one I've found.

So, I guess my question is, was the Hope Diamond really stolen from the French?

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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According to Wikipedia, yes, it was cut from a diamond that belonged to the French monarchy (I guess that's what you mean by "the French").
quote:
The Hope diamond was recorded in the possession of a London diamond merchant Daniel Eliason in September 1812, which marks the earliest point that the exact history of the Hope Diamond can be definitively fixed. This diamond was generally believed to have been cut from the French Blue, a fact which was finally verified in 2005. It is often pointed out that the Hope Diamond came into recorded history almost exactly 20 years after the theft of the French Blue, just as the statute of limitations for the crime had expired.

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effo5231
I Saw Three Shipments


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Thanks, but to be honest, I trust a Wiki cite about as far as I can fling a piano.

I once edited a page about Don King to include the sentence, "He eats one hardboiled doedoe egg every morning." and left it there for a month before someone read close enough to remove it. (Don't thrash me for vandalism folks anyone dumb enough to believe that statement deserves to look like an ass when they repeat it.)

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
I once edited a page about Don King to include the sentence, "He eats one hardboiled doedoe egg every morning." and left it there for a month before someone read close enough to remove it.
What! he doesn't. Damn, that's my essay in the bin.

Do you trust the Smithsonian?

http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmnh/hope.htm

"strong evidence indicates" isn't definate confirmation, but since nobody who was there at the time is around to tell us now, that's the best you can hope (no pun intended) for.

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effo5231
I Saw Three Shipments


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Yea, Smithsonian is where I ended up too. I was just hoping that there was some newly published proof or Acadmeic Journal that I wasn't aware of.

Thanks for the help folks.

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Have you tried phoning the Smithsonian? On occasion I've phoned the British Museum, and spoken to people who have made it there life work to study the thing I wanted to know about. I think they were actually chuffed that someone was expressing an interest, and bent over backwards to give me all the information I wanted (and more that I didn't.) Someone there is bound to be up to strength on any latest knowledge.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The Wiki entry contains three book references. What are you looking for, a confession from the thief? [Smile]

ETA Here's an article about the confirmation:
http://www.diamondvues.com/2005/02/the_origins_of.html

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Eddylizard
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J'accuse!

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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effo5231
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
The Wiki entry contains three book references. What are you looking for, a confession from the thief? [Smile]

ETA Here's an article about the confirmation:
http://www.diamondvues.com/2005/02/the_origins_of.html

Thanks for the article, that's the sort of thing I was looking for, its one thing for the Smithsonian to say "Well, its awfully big and went up for sale right after this one was stolen." its another for gemological experts to say "We've matched this stone to that stone.

And as for the book citings on Wiki, I could cite Plato's Republic as containing a recipe for delicious lasagna with mushroom sauce, but it doesn't mean that its in there.

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Mr. Billion
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
J'accuse!

Gesundheit!

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by effo5231:
And as for the book citings on Wiki, I could cite Plato's Republic as containing a recipe for delicious lasagna with mushroom sauce, but it doesn't mean that its in there.

Ah, that's what that big building down on Cathedral Street is for! [Smile] Sorry... I'll stop.
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qualli
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by effo5231:

And as for the book citings on Wiki, I could cite Plato's Republic as containing a recipe for delicious lasagna with mushroom sauce, but it doesn't mean that its in there. [/QB]

Forgive me for sounding cranky, but a cite is an author's way of saying, "Don't believe me? look it up yourself!" The point of a cite is not going "hah, I'm right!" it's going "Hah, I'm right, and here's why:" Hell, in most cases they even give you the page number.

So if you tell me that Plato discovered kryptonite I'd call you an idiot. If you cite Plato's republic, I'd call you idiot, but then I'd skip my pretty little ass down to the library so I could call you an idiot and prove it. I might also by that point be tempted to smack you over the head with the book.

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effo5231
I Saw Three Shipments


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I agree that cites are not proof, but a method for providing proof. But I'm not capable of skipping down to the library right now (nursing a broken leg) and even if I was, three books are cited, for the entire article, and all or none of them could contain the information in the article.

Ergo, I asked for a source other than wiki.

ETA To correct grammar.

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t_chelle16
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
The team of researchers led by Post and Steven Attaway, engineer and gem cutter; as well as gem cutters Scott Sucher and Nancy Attaway, deduced that the Hope Diamond would have fit inside the larger French Blue Diamond, matching its orientation, with the cut indicating that some of the facets on the Hope Diamond still remain from its parent stone.
FWIW, I actually saw a documentary on TV a while back where they were doing that.
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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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I'm very tempted to put into wikipedia that the hope diamond was cut from the stolen Pink Panther and see how long it takes for them to spot it.

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zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by lazerus the duck:
I'm very tempted to put into wikipedia that the hope diamond was cut from the stolen Pink Panther and see how long it takes for them to spot it.

You could also write that it was made in to a necklace and given to Rose by her boyfriend Cal as an engagement gift aboard Titanic and see if anyone catches that. [Smile]

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I just read about this yesterday on the bus:

The Hope Diamond was dug from Krishna River Sand in India, was acquired by Jean-Baptiste Tavernier in the 1700's, given to the french court, passed through many owners, until it reached the New York Jeweler Harry Winston in the 20th century, who hyped it's cures before donating it to the Smithsonian.

Taken from "The Heartless Stone: A Journey Through the World of Diamonds, Deceit, and Desire," by Tom Zoellner.

A brilliant book. Really, really good. Nice blend of journalism, history, and memoir. Highly recommended for anyone who ever considered purchasing a diamond.

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Bettie Page Turner
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by effo5231:
Thanks, but to be honest, I trust a Wiki cite about as far as I can fling a piano.

I once edited a page about Don King to include the sentence, "He eats one hardboiled doedoe egg every morning." and left it there for a month before someone read close enough to remove it. (Don't thrash me for vandalism folks anyone dumb enough to believe that statement deserves to look like an ass when they repeat it.)

Let me guess...you distrust Wiki because the articles are frequently edited by people who are inserting juvenile jokes or incorrect information. To make your point, you edit an article to include a juvenile joke. [Roll Eyes]

I would posit that the Wikignomes could do a much better job of keeping Wiki accurate if they didn't have to waste their time removing the virtual equivalent of "effo5231 wuz here!!!" every time they f***ing turned around.

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You fail to consider, for such is the tyranny of fashion, that the swan is not a slim animal... -Jincy Kornhauser, Melinda Falling

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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To an extent, how far can you trust any source on the internet. Any damn fool can write a web-page.

I could write a page with any kind of nonsense on it. Provided it was fairly plausible, and got somewhere near the top of the rankings, readers might actually believe it. To make it sound better I can even provide bogus book references. E.g.

Howlings and Wolf - The History of Dogs 1948. pp 72-84 Now out of print.

If you go to a library to check out this cite, you will not be able to get hold of a copy. That's because it doesn't exist (I hope.) However you will not be able to prove whether the book is bogus, or whether it is so obscure your library didn't have a copy. But putting it there carries an air of authority.

As I have said in another forum, I visit the internet, and on-line reference sources to find out something I don't know. Unless an article is patently ridiculous, then I can be fooled.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Syllavus
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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While googling I found this image which shows reproductions of what the original Tavernier Blue diamond and French Blue diamond would have looked like, before it was cut into what is now the Hope. It seems pretty well accepted that the Hope diamond was cut from the French Blue.

ETA: This website also has some good info about the documentary that the Smithsonian produced, and some of the research done.

I never realized that this stone had such a fascinating history, it really is quite interesting. [Smile]

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
To an extent, how far can you trust any source on the internet. Any damn fool can write a web-page.

Whereas the people on a messageboard are trustworthy?

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Officially Heartless

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleS:
quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
To an extent, how far can you trust any source on the internet. Any damn fool can write a web-page.

Whereas the people on a messageboard are trustworthy?
I don't understand your question. I did say any source on the internet I never said that messageboard users are more trustworthy as a source of information.

No offence to Snopesters.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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So why are you asking us?

EDIT: SORRY!!! I obviously need more coffee. I retract all snark.

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Officially Heartless

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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In this case, Eddylizard isn't asking, ThistleS. Effo5231 is.

Seaboe

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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It was a rhetorical response to Effo5231's comment that you can't trust Wiki as far as you can throw a piano. Effo5321 has probably got a point, Wiki may not be the best source on the planet.

My point was, where do you draw the line? If you distrust Wiki, then do you distrust all the websites you read.

If you distrust the websites, then look it up in a book. But how can you be sure the author got it right?

The only way to be sure is to go and look at whatever it is yourself,observe, take measurements and draw conclusions. Not a luxury most of us have.

You mentioned messageboards. In general. Not all messageboards were created equal. There's plenty of others out there that are not well informed.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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lazerus the duck
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:


The only way to be sure is to go and look at whatever it is yourself,observe, take measurements and draw conclusions. Not a luxury most of us have.


Eyes, ears, touch, taste and smell, are all just elecrtical impulses going to the brain. How can you trust that those messages arn't getting intercepted and/or garbled.
Trust nothing not even yourself.

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Cogito ergo sum. I didn't want to go that far.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Eddylizard
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleS:
So why are you asking us?

EDIT: SORRY!!! I obviously need more coffee. I retract all snark.

Nah. Apolgy accepted. I'd FTP you some coffee, but I've run out and the shops are shut.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is what is commonly known as money. It comes in all sizes, colours, and denominations - like people."

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Nick Theodorakis
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Eddylizard:
quote:
Originally posted by ThistleS:
So why are you asking us?

EDIT: SORRY!!! I obviously need more coffee. I retract all snark.

Nah. Apolgy accepted. I'd FTP you some coffee, but I've run out and the shops are shut.

Connected to ftp.coffee.drink.
220---------- Welcome to Coffee-FTP----------
User: Nick Theodorakis
331 Nick Theodorakis OK. Password required
Password:
230 OK. Current restricted directory is /
ftp> liquid
200 TYPE is now LIQUID
ftp> get coffee
200 PORT command successful
150 Connecting to port 5003
226-Liquid successfully transferred
226 12 seconds (measured here), 42.67 ml per second
ftp 512 ml received
ftp> quit


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Floater
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:

The Hope Diamond [...] passed through many owners

[Eek!] I don't really want to know how.

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robbiev - singin' off key
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I just read about this yesterday on the bus:

The Hope Diamond was dug from Krishna River Sand in India,...Taken from "The Heartless Stone: A Journey Through the World of Diamonds, Deceit, and Desire," by Tom Zoellner.

Wow! You read all that on the bus? Buses around here have pretty small billboards, and they're usually advertisements...

...you see, "on the bus" is...I...oh never mind. I'll get it. [fish] [fish]

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by robbiev - singin' off key:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I just read about this yesterday on the bus:

The Hope Diamond was dug from Krishna River Sand in India,...Taken from "The Heartless Stone: A Journey Through the World of Diamonds, Deceit, and Desire," by Tom Zoellner.

Wow! You read all that on the bus? Buses around here have pretty small billboards, and they're usually advertisements...

...you see, "on the bus" is...I...oh never mind. I'll get it. [fish] [fish]

[Razz] WhatEVER! Fine I read it while riding on the bus....Grammer freak

Ryda "but they do have poetry on the billboards on the bus. bad poetry" Wong

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Alex Buchet
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I edit on Wikipedia, and I would like to request that nobody vandalise it. Don't piss in the public swimming pool.

(Especially not from the diving board.)

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Grammer freak

It's "Grammar."


[Razz]


Demon "Spelling freak" Wolf

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Grammer freak

It's "Grammar."
Demon "Spelling freak" Wolf

You're not allowing for the fact she may be referring to Kelsey.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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