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snopes
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Comment: I was told by several people that the painting entitled "The
Scream" was not painted by the artist who claims it, but instead by a
mental patient or the like, and the "artist" simply took credit. Is this
true, or just a fabrication?

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snopes
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quote:
"The Scream" was not painted by the artist who claims it, but instead by a mental patient or the like
And now he's taken back what was rightfully his!

- snopes

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Mycroft
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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There are 4 versions of The Scream; one of them currently missing after being stolen in 2004
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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I have never heard anything like that (the fabrication, not Mycroft's post, which is accurate) about Edvard Munch's "The Scream." A quick look at the first two google pages showed nothing like that either.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
"The Scream" was not painted by the artist who claims it, but instead by a mental patient or the like
And now he's taken back what was rightfully his!

- snopes

[lol] Damn, beat me to it!

--------------------
"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Munch was mentally ill; this may be the origin of the rumor. Indeed, if you look at his paintings in chronological order, you can see how his personality was disintegrating.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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callee
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
Munch was mentally ill; this may be the origin of the rumor. Indeed, if you look at his paintings in chronological order, you can see how his personality was disintegrating.

I've been googling, trying to find all 4 versions to see the progression to which you refer, but I've had no luck. Do you have a link?

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a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll

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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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Artist Louis Wain's dissent into schizophrenia is documented through his cat paintings. Is that what you meant, maybe, Elkhound?

In any case, it's still very fascinating. Here's a link for you: http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nbb421/student2003/epl8/Blank%20Page%202.htm

--------------------
"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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KLM
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Hi,

Thanks alot, that an interesting read.
The progression is fascinating to see indeed.

quote:
Originally posted by Oceanic Aura:
Artist Louis Wain's dissent into schizophrenia is documented through his cat paintings. Is that what you meant, maybe, Elkhound?

In any case, it's still very fascinating. Here's a link for you: http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nbb421/student2003/epl8/Blank%20Page%202.htm


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Tobester
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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made me think of this....
http://www.cowboybooks.com.au/html/acidtrip1.html

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Dyslexics of the world untie!

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Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I've always prefered The Whine, by Gary Larson.

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The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Oceanic Aura:
In any case, it's still very fascinating. Here's a link for you: http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nbb421/student2003/epl8/Blank%20Page%202.htm

I got down to the first three images and thought those were the ones he'd done while insane! Ugh...
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Oceanic Aura
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
quote:
Originally posted by Oceanic Aura:
In any case, it's still very fascinating. Here's a link for you: http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nbb421/student2003/epl8/Blank%20Page%202.htm

I got down to the first three images and thought those were the ones he'd done while insane! Ugh...
[lol] The schizophrenic paintings are quite an improvement, aren't they? That old quote about the fine line between genius and madness seems apt, doesn't it?

--------------------
"Are we talking misdemeanor trouble or squeal like a pig trouble?"

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Aud
We Three Blings


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Whoa. The schizophrenic relative makes artwork that looks like kalidescope images. We've used the term fractal for his art too.
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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Most great artists are a not entirely connected to the same reality as the rest of us, and I think that's a part of the fascination of their work. They explore the frontiers which the rest of us only occasionally dream about.

Just look at musicians with drug problems. Almost without exception, when the stop taking the drugs and go sober, their music get boring, boring, boring. *cough*Nick*cough*Cave*cough*

Tobester: Your avatar definately has an odd touch of slightly creepy. Love it!

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/Troberg

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snopes
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quote:
Just look at musicians with drug problems. Almost without exception, when the stop taking the drugs and go sober, their music get boring, boring, boring. *cough*Nick*cough*Cave*cough*
Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin certainly stopped producing interesting music afterwards ...

- snopes

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
Just look at musicians with drug problems. Almost without exception, when the stop taking the drugs and go sober, their music get boring, boring, boring. *cough*Nick*cough*Cave*cough*
Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin certainly stopped producing interesting music afterwards ...

- snopes

Many of the artists and musicians of the 19th century drank absynth tea, including the Impressionists, who are my favorites - some people off the top of my head who used various substances would be Lewis Carroll, Edgar Allen Poe, Peter Max, Grateful Dead, Gaugin.

Most of my art professors clearly smoked pot, most of the time they came to class high as a kite.

If you can get to that part of your mind that is creative without using something, and some can, that's great, but being an artist myself I have to agree that altering the mind is something that a lot of artists are just drawn to.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Spindely Fingers
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally Posted by SnapDragonFly:
Many of the artists and musicians of the 19th century drank absynth tea, including the Impressionists, who are my favorites - some people off the top of my head who used various substances would be Lewis Carroll, Edgar Allen Poe, Peter Max, Grateful Dead, Gaugin.

Sorry to be a nitpicker, but absinth isn't really hallucinogenic, just a rather high alcohol content, contrary to popular belief. Laudanum (an alcohol made with opium) and opium tea/black drop where drinks popular around the same time, though, and were in fact strong narcotics.

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Armistice Day has become Veterans' Day. Armistice Day was sacred. Veterans' Day is not.
So I will throw Veterans' Day over my shoulder. ...
What else is sacred? Oh, Romeo and Juliet, for instance.
And all music is. -Kurt Vonnegut

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
Most of my art professors clearly smoked pot, most of the time they came to class high as a kite.

If you can get to that part of your mind that is creative without using something, and some can, that's great, but being an artist myself I have to agree that altering the mind is something that a lot of artists are just drawn to.

Not that I'm opposed to the use of mind-altering substances for artistic creation but I used to know a lot of artists who simply dripped paint down peices of paper all night thinking they were creating great art because of what they were taking. On the other hand, any great artists I have known have been just as good or better when sober (as long as they weren't addicted or dependent for other reasons). So I have to wonder if such substances really make a positive difference.
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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Personally, I think a few good hits of acid would do some artists *cough*THOMASKINCAIDE*cough a world of good. I'd take dribbles any day.

"I used to know a lot of artists who simply dripped paint down peices of paper all night thinking they were creating great art because of what they were taking."

I don't know if those types qualify as artists in the first place. Do you have a lot of artist friends? I see you are in Japan - traditional Japanese art has a wonderful aesthetic.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Spindely Fingers
I Saw Three Shipments


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By the way, I was under the impression that the "Poe/Lewis Carol did drugs" things were rumours at best. Anyone have a cite for that? I'd imagine they used some kind of opiates (it was the tylonal of the day) but not for more than the occasional medical purposes. I'd be mighty perterbed if I created a work of art only to have the popular opinion years later be "There's no way he thought this up on his own, he had to be on drugs. No one's that outside the box!"

--------------------
Armistice Day has become Veterans' Day. Armistice Day was sacred. Veterans' Day is not.
So I will throw Veterans' Day over my shoulder. ...
What else is sacred? Oh, Romeo and Juliet, for instance.
And all music is. -Kurt Vonnegut

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bufungla
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Spindely Fingers:
By the way, I was under the impression that the "Poe/Lewis Carol did drugs" things were rumours at best. Anyone have a cite for that? I'd imagine they used some kind of opiates (it was the tylonal of the day) but not for more than the occasional medical purposes.

Here's the Poe Society's take on the matter (complete with references).

quote:
Even Poe's bitter enemy Dr. Thomas Dunn English was willing to admit "Had Poe the opium habit when I knew him, I should, both as a physician and a man of observation, have discovered it in his frequent visits to my rooms, my visits to his house, and our meetings elsewhere. I saw no signs of it." (The Independent, October 15, 1896).

In 1884, Dr. John Carter, who knew and examined Poe, wrote to G. E. Woodberry, "Poe never used opium in any instance that I am aware of. . . . I never heard it hinted at before, and if he had contracted the habit, it would have accompanied him to Richmond" (Woodberry, Life of Poe, 1909, p. 430). Following this excerpt from Dr. Carter, Woodberry states his own opinion that "I incline to the view that Poe began the use of drugs in Baltimore, that his periods of abstinence from liquor were periods of at least moderate indulgence in opium, . . . " As he never even met Poe, and offers no evidence to support his position, Woodberry's conjecture may best be ignored. Unfortunately, in his 1926 and 1934 biography Israfel: The Life and Times of Edgar Allan Poe, Hervey Allen mistakenly quoted Woodberry's note as if it were part of John Carter's letter (Allen, Israfel, 1934, p. 299).



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"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
I don't know if those types qualify as artists in the first place. Do you have a lot of artist friends? I see you are in Japan - traditional Japanese art has a wonderful aesthetic.

Well, I used to have lots of artist friends and colleagues. But they got tired of me dripping paint down canvas all night and thinking I was making great art. [lol] Now I have mad scientist friends.
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Johnny Slick
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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This UL should have been about Howard Dean. [Frown]

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Give big space to the festive dog that makes sport in roadway. Avoid entanglement of dog with wheel spokes.

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Samantha Vimes
Jingle Bell Hock


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In Xanadu did Kubla Kahn, a stately pleasure dome decree
Where Alph, the sacred river ran..."

Oh, if only the neighbor hadn't broken that opium dream!

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
In Xanadu did Kubla Kahn, a stately pleasure dome decree
Where Alph, the sacred river ran..."

Or why not: "Yea, slimy things did crawl with legs
Upon the slimy sea."

You just got to love Coleridge for his halluciantions.

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/Troberg

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Victoria J
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Oceanic Aura:
Artist Louis Wain's dissent into schizophrenia is documented through his cat paintings. Is that what you meant, maybe, Elkhound?

In any case, it's still very fascinating. Here's a link for you: http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nbb421/student2003/epl8/Blank%20Page%202.htm

Wow - I had no idea I liked anything by Louis Wain. I've always found him interesting, but the cat paintings always seemed so cloying, even when the subjects aren't. But I love the later ones, as they "break down"...

quote:
Originally posted by Tobester:
made me think of this....
http://www.cowboybooks.com.au/html/acidtrip1.html

[lol] The drawings were interesting, but the commentary made me laugh outloud :

quote:
Upon completing the drawing the patient starts laughing, then becomes startled by something on the floor.
quote:
Patient tries to climb into activity box, and is generally agitated - responds slowly to the suggestion he might like to draw some more. He has become largely none verbal.
Victoria J.

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Post accompanied by maniacal laughter.

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Victoria J
Jingle Bell Hock


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And do we have to have the "great art and madness go together" discussion ?

Plenty of artists do not have mental health problems.

Nor is art always spontaneous and unplanned. (And no, this does not rule out involvement by people with mental health problems - but it is part of the same ridiculous mythologising). Lots of art could not be produced without careful and businesslike thought and planning. Producing art is not always glamourous (not even in a reversed starving-in-a-garret sort of way) and is not unbridled creativity. To produce something which will have meaning for others as well as the artist it is normally very carefully controlled and directed creativity.

It is however one field where people with mental health problems have had an opportunity to succeed, and make a significant contribution.

Victoria J.

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Post accompanied by maniacal laughter.

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