posted
WASHINGTON - Gritty rats and mice living in sewers and farms seem to have healthier immune systems than their squeaky-clean cousins that frolic in cushy antiseptic labs, a new study indicates.
The lesson for humans: Clean living may make us sick.
-------------------- No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie Posts: 3833 | From: Virginia | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by belaglik: So what about the death rate in medieval Europe with its heavy infestation of plague rats? Is this article suggesting we go back to those days?
Actually, this article is guilty of giving incomplete information - one of my MAJOR irritations with the media -
I saw another story on the same thing and I'm sorry I don't remember where, so no cite, but it might have been msm.com. In that story, it also said that the scientific community was looking for a way to isolate just exactly what it is about the dirty environment that is beneficial to our immune systems, and find a way to artifically add that back, like another type of allergy shot or something.
-or *something* along those lines - wish I had the cite! - but the point was, no, they don't want to go back to the nasty old days, but rather use technology to address the inadvertant situation that cleaner living causes.
-------------------- "Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit
(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad) Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by belaglik: So what about the death rate in medieval Europe with its heavy infestation of plague rats? Is this article suggesting we go back to those days?
Are the only choices "freak out about anything that could potentially have germs" and "go back to having rats living in your house"?
-------------------- "Accompanied by the ghosts of dolphins, the ghost of a ship sailed on..." Terry Pratchett Posts: 660 | From: Gainesville, FL | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by belaglik: So what about the death rate in medieval Europe with its heavy infestation of plague rats? Is this article suggesting we go back to those days?
Are the only choices "freak out about anything that could potentially have germs" and "go back to having rats living in your house"?
Well said!
I think the point tho is that you can't spend your whole life avoiding germs of every kind or else your immune system doesn't get the target practice it needs to keep you healthy. But I don't think they are suggesting that one should flood themselves with all kinds of germs by living in open sewage just to attain this result.
For example, I wash my hands with just hot (not scalding) water, rubbing vigorously under the water. I use soap if I'm really dirty... but I don't go nutty and buy the antibacterial stuff. I don't freak out about touching things in a public bathroom like the flusher, sink, or door handle... but I'm not gonna go bonkers and swish around the bowl with my hand. I don't cover my nose and mouth any time I'm around someone with a cold... but I don't go to great pains to catch what they've got just to have one more antibody in my system.
I think something like that.
-------------------- They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius
If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing. Posts: 2486 | From: East Stroudsburg, PA | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I understand what the article was saying, but I can't stop snickering at this part (italics mine):
"...differences in the immune systems between euthanized wild and lab rodents.
When the immune cells in the wild rats are stimulated by researchers, "They just don't do anything. They sit there," said study co-author Dr. William Parker, ..."
Umm, they're dead. Of Course they just sit there!
-------------------- Let's just pretend we're normal for a minute ~ New favorite T-shirt quote Posts: 1193 | From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
The whole point of the research has nothing to do with having (or not having) rats around.
The point is that rats living in a pristine, germ/dirt/scum free world have weaker immune systems than rats living in a more natural environment (natural = lots of germs/dirt/scum).
Like Hoitoider said The lesson for humans: Clean living may make us sick.
To put it another way, this research suggests it might be good for a kid to eat a few fistfulls of dirt.
The idea has been around for a while.
Posts: 629 | From: Greenwood, IN | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Anecdotally anyway, its always seemed the same way with humans. As a kid I had a few friends who grew up in meticulously clean homes (no pets, anti-bacterial everything, vacuuming multiple times per week, air and water filters, well insulated windows usually closed), some who grew up in pigstys (filth in every room all the time), and most people whose homes were in between the two extremes. It seemed like the healthiest group was the middle. Many of the kids in the sterile homes seemed to get sick more often and have much higher incidences of allergies or asthma, while the kids in the disgusting homes often had mental problems or malnutrition.
Of course, correlation doesn't imply causation. It could be that the exceedingly clean parents are just more afraid of germs and allergens because they get sick more often themselves. But it could be a little bit of heredity and a little bit of environment that both reinforce each other.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
It's really hard to tell with these things, but getting exposed to germs is a boost to the immune system. That probabloy isn't the whole story though. Doesn't mean we should go back to the plague days. But most bacteria is harmless, and keeps the bad germs away, or even benefits us. A small percent causes harm, some minor like colds some deadly. It's a balance, really.
Vaccines work by exposing people to dead and therefore fairly harmless or small amounts of the little NBSKers. Now, one or two germs of one species may not hurt you as your body will take care of it before you even know you've caught something. But then your immune system will know it for next time.
posted
Actually, Macleans had an editorial on allergies last month. The article claimed to link allergy to overdoing hygiene, and, frankly, I'm quite convinced.
Posts: 246 | From: Toronto, ON / Kyiv, Ukraine | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I agree that a general, society-wide increase in allergies is related to overdoing hygiene.
However, my personal allergies have a stronger genetic component. My grandmother had severe pollen allergies and asthma. My mother had asthma. My sister, brother and I all have asthma. My sister and I have severe pollen allergies (I don't know about my brother). At least one of my nephews has pollen allergies.
Seaboe
-------------------- Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me Posts: 5562 | From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
I'm incline to believe the article in a sense. We live in a world where we want to keep the world clean and in one way we are making ourselves unhealthy. As Lewis Black pointed out, we worry too much about our health and we aren't f-ing healthy anymore.
Take one example, someone buys into the fact that they don't want to leave their desk and wash their hands. So they buy a hand sanitizer and use it every time they pick their ear or nose or scratch their head or whatever other thing is dirty. They use the bottle every time they do that rather than washing their hands the intelligent way.
Next thing they know, their doctor tells them their immunity system has broken down somehow and they find out they were not supposed to use hand sanitizer every time they pick the dirties because they are over protecting themselves. ========= Now to say that cleaning the environment and ourselves are culprits of asthma, the flu season, and other things, that's also caused by polluting the environment from the trash we smelter into the air on a minute basis.
Only cure to that is to have Day After Tomorrow start now and we start our lives over after the ice age.
-------------------- Joseph Z Posts: 1356 | From: Woodbridge, VA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Well, there was some type of study (or studies) a while back that said children who live with pets in the house are less likely to have allergies to many common things, not just to pets. This sounds like more in the same (or similar) vein.
I also think the phrase "dirty rats" or "gritty rats" isn't really accurate. Rats generally keep themselves very clean unless they are sick. It is the environment they live in which is "dirty" and not the rats themselves.
-------------------- Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. Posts: 2110 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2000
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