posted
Is the story about a bible found in an Irish bog opened to Psalms 82 really true. Our church made a big thing about it as the fine of the century.
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From the article: However yesterday, before it all got out of hand, the director of the National Museum, Dr Patrick Wallace, issued a statement saying the text visible on the manuscript found in the bog does not refer to the wiping out of Israel but to the "vale of tears".
"This is part of Verse 7 of Psalm 83 in the old Latin translation of the Bible [the Vulgate] which....would have been the version used in the medieval period.
"In the much later King James version the number of the psalms is different, based on the Hebrew text and the 'vale of tears' occurs in Psalm 84.
"The text about wiping out Israel occurs in the Vulgate as Psalm 82" which equals Psalm 83 (King James version), he said.
Also the Bible wasn't open to that Psalm. That was just one of the most legible pages.
Canuckistan
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posted
According to this report, there's conflicting accounts as to which Psalm it was. It could be Psalm 83, or 84.
Also, apparently,
quote:However yesterday, before it all got out of hand, the director of the National Museum, Dr Patrick Wallace, issued a statement saying the text visible on the manuscript found in the bog does not refer to the wiping out of Israel but to the "vale of tears".
Seems like a great archaeological find, but nothing Israel should be worried about yet.
(Oh, and welcome to the boards)
ETA: spanked by many, many people! You must all be wiped off the face of the earth now! In a vale of tears, of course.
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Richard W
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What's the significance of Psalms 82? It doesn't look all that relevant to me.
Any more information? When was this? How old was the Bible - an illuminated manuscript or a more modern Bible?
quote:The discovery of the Psalter, or Book of Psalms, in the south Midlands is said to be one of the most significant discoveries in archaeology for decades.
National Museum of Ireland specialists believe the manuscript may have been lost in transit or dumped after a raid - possibly up to 1,200 years ago.
Not a Bible, but I guess it could be part of one if it's the same Book of Psalms from the Bible.
It doesn't mention which page it was open to, though, and one of those pictures appears to show it in situ and closed. Only fragments of the text are still legible.
(edit) Thoroughly spanked. I knew I shouldn't have stopped to write another post half way through this. I think I'm overstretching myself.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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As for the significance of which psalm it was open to: there are a whole lot of psalms that talk about Israel and trouble from its enemies. If you open any psalter at random I'm sure you will find a verse that has some meaning for you (I just tried it and got Ps 17).
Nick
ETA: quadruple-spanked! I knew I shouldn't have stopped to do an experiment halfway through a post.
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posted
Considering the artistic beauty that came out of the first millenium's Irish monastic movement, I'm sure that this psalter will be seen as a wonderous work of art once it is preserved.
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DemonWolf
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quote:Originally posted by Richard W: What's the significance of Psalms 82? It doesn't look all that relevant to me.
The number of the psalm depends on which translation you are readng.
For example:
quote:Psalm 83.4 in your version: "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more."
and
quote:Psalm 82.5 in the version I use: They have said: Come and let us destroy them, so that they be not a nation: and let the name of Israel be remembered no more.
Sounds like Isreal getting wiped out to me...
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posted
hmmm.... not sure how this could qualify as the find of the century, really.
I mean, for starters, it is definitely cool.
and second, it does contribute to our knowledge of medieval christianity in ireland,
but
I can't see how this is at all important to biblical studies.
It's a copy of the vulgate - a latin translation of the (in this case hebrew) original. Compared to the first Christian collections of the Hebrew scriptures, this copy of a translation dates from a thousand years after the fact. Compared to the original composition of the psalms, it dates from several thousand years after the fact.
here's an analogy:
If I, today, downloaded a french translation of the US constitution and printed it on my HP inkjet, and a century from now archeologists working up in canada discovered it in the rubble of my apartment, it would still be a more important wittness to the development of the US constitution than this psalter is to the bible.
That is to say, not much.
still cool though. I mean, I'd line up to take a look at it.
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posted
meh. It isn't autographed.
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Canuckistan
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quote:Originally posted by callee: I mean, I'd line up to take a look at it.
Now that you think about it, I'd line up to take a look at the rubble of your apartment, too.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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It's a copy of the vulgate - a latin translation of the (in this case hebrew) original. ...
Did any of the articles clarify if it was a vulgate psalter or another old Latin psalter? I had thought that older versions of the psalter continued to circulate for liturgical use in the west even after Jerome compiled the vulgate.
Wikipedia (Jerome's Psalter, Vetus Latina) suggests that it could have been a Latin translation of the Septuagint psalter, rather than Hebrew.
Nick
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posted
Even if it were KJV Psalm 83 it's not a warning to Israel it's a plea to God to take care Israel's enemies because they are threatening to wipe them out. It would be seen as a warning to the rest of the middle east if anything, because David in this psalm is asking God to come down do some smiting.
Gibbie
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